AFK Cloaking - problem.

Oh look, it's this thread again.

No.

Oh look. it's another chicken cloaker.

Oh look. it's another chicken cloaker.

AFK Cloaking - problem.

Cloak cycle time - 5 minutes
Reload time - 5 minutes
Capacity - 6 charges for covert ops cloaks (30 minutes before reload), 3 for non covops cloaks (15 minutes before reload)
Charges are required to cloak

AFK cloaking - solved.

I live in a wormhole bro. Nice try. Come back when you can undock without local chat to hold your hand.

You live in my a**hole not in wh. And you just go hunting there to wh because easy for you hiding there in cloak.
Thats why you cry about cloak.
http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&view=kills&plt_id=551234&m=9&y=2012

J142814,J120357,J123405,J155928,J155249,J135623, J135214,J133906

You live in so many WH in same time, isn't ? :D

But you fly nice ships anyway. :D http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=551234&view=losses&m=6&y=2012
Maybe do you know something from eve. :DDDD

Huh so a worm hole liver has never opened a hole to another wormhole and ran sites in the neighboring worm hole and did some PvP the same way.

Thats is another story . What can do in wh. Such a covard cloaker talking about he live in WH, when somebody talking about u are a cloaker. :D

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15632454
Oh wait there is not , because he live in wh but he are always in the other wormholes with cloaked badger . :D

Are you on medication?

AFK Cloaking - problem.

AFK Cloaking - problem.

Cloak cycle time - 5 minutes
Reload time - 5 minutes
Capacity - 6 charges for covert ops cloaks (30 minutes before reload), 3 for non covops cloaks (15 minutes before reload)
Charges are required to cloak

AFK cloaking - solved.

Noone has ever been killed by an AFK player


Noone has ever been killed by a cloaked player.


In order to killsomeone they have to stop being afk and uncloak.



HTFU

Double Facepalm

AFK Cloaking - problem.

Cloak cycle time - 5 minutes
Reload time - 5 minutes
Capacity - 6 charges for covert ops cloaks (30 minutes before reload), 3 for non covops cloaks (15 minutes before reload)
Charges are required to cloak

AFK cloaking - solved.

AFK cloaking is fine, cloaking in general is not. Represents an enormous intel gathering mechanism and tactical advantage, far greater than the risk/investment warrants.

- Deny the use of directional scan while cloaked. If an intel operation wants data they can put either the ship or probes out there for the world to see .. coverts don't care as they can warp around to get eyes on any point they want .. will just be more involved.
- Increase re-calibration delay and extend the effect of it to include all modules fitted to a ship. There has to be a strong incentive to spend the time to train that last level, especially now that CCP is ready to launch "Cloaking for Dummies" by tweaking fittings downwards.

It's bullshit. 24/7 AFK cloaking is not fine.

It's bullshit. 24/7 AFK cloaking is not fine.

Which begs the question: What method does Paikis use, to cloak these chickens?
And how would he feed them, if he can't see them?

I have discovered a genuine cloaking issue.

Farmers with cloaked and AFK chickens.

Their eggs show up randomly around the hen-house... noone is sure how to find them.

On the plus side, these eggs are apparently low calorie, and cholesterol free.

are they also tasteless and have an air-like texture...?

Oh, you tried em too?

I thought they were just an acquired taste. Maybe they need to be prepared a certain way...

No thats was, where the ship not warped out, thx for CCP bugfest.
And where you see there cloaker ships you noob ?

lol afk cloakers dnt have to use covert cloaks, genius.

You tard they never cloaked in the system, but you realy know better than me, who was there.


GM Ukulele:
"We apologize for the late reply and appreciate your patience.
Unfortunately as GM Ocelot indicated, we see no indication of a fault with the game or server connectivity at the time of your loss. We do see that you aligned at 14:51 and issued the command to warp at 14:52"

yeah scrams do that

oh my god. You alt tard, our fleet warped out before the enemy ship landed. Exaclty other ship could warp out, but mine didn't.
I did the fleetwarp because i was the fleet commander and i gave to order to align too. But my ship not warped out. And no the NPC-s didn't scrambled me because no scram ship at Serpentis Forsaken hub!!!

From petition:

"My ship was not bumped aligned full speed to safepos, my cache was clear and thats nothing to do with warp.
Check R0nnie Vanzant logs too, when he got the fleetwarp order. (14:52:20 Notify Following Hun Jakuza in warp.) Check when he did the align too, that's could be same time, because i gave the order instantly when we saw the enemy

You see in log when i aligned, u should be see there when i gave the order to fleetwarp."

So think about you are so smart, but you dont know nothing from what happened there.
So, just HTFU. And again never was there a cloaked ship, because i saw the enemy when he came in the system (was the cynabal), and that's why i started to align with my fleet and that's why i started to warp to safepos instantly when i saw the enemy ship on dir scan. But thx for CCP our other ship warped out, but my ship did nothing.

GM Ukulele

"We are sorry you are dissatisfied with the outcome of your petition, but as mentioned previously we are unable to verify that the game behaved outside of intended mechanics during the events which culminated in your ship loss. We do see that you aligned well prior to your attempted warp"

You were either, not aligned or aligned to the wrong thing.
Sorry to say but you did something stupid, not the game.

Try with other alt. No, i aligned to safepos just like my friend too, my friend warped to safepos, my ship was not bumped, not scrambled, the ship didn't changed aligned point, just not warped out.
And after 30 sec the cynabal landed on anomaly and scrambled me.
And other thing i drove out the cynabal and he warped off in half srtucture, because i used on him two web and he couldn't keep out the distance from blaster range, but i still didn't warp out when he escaped, no matter how i tried to warp out and his two friend came in to anomaly too.

One more thing 2 days ago, i was in a fleet op, the whole fleet got same bug, when we tried to warp out from the combat zone at low sec,.Just fixed after when the fleet commander logged out and back.

Sorry but someone somewhere did something stupid. (it was probably you) If there really was a "bug" that prevented people from warping (and one that required you to re-log to fix) there would be a lot more QQ on the forums about it.

And no, arbitrarily saying "your whole fleet" got the "bug" 2 days ago does not constitute proof.

There is nothing broke about AFK cloaking, the only thing thats broke (if I had to point to something that is broke in regards to cloaking) is that there is literally nothing you can do about an AFK cloaker. If I were to suggest a solution to this, it would be making it possible to scan down a cloaked ship only under the conditions that you had all scanning skills to level 5 and the skills associated with the ship that is cloaked, after all it would only make sense that you should have to know something about a cloaked enemy vessel and how it operates in order to scan it down. So your skills would in a sense have to look like this.

Astrometrics - level 5

Astrometric Pinpointing - level 5

Astrometric Range Finding - level 5

Astrometric Aquisition - level 5

Cloaking, Covert Ops, Recon Ships, and Black Ops, would all give a 1% bonus per level to the chance of scanning down a cloaked ship.

Even so, I still would not mess with this too much.

This is not bad idea, really. But you have a problem. When the cloaked ship moving somewhere (align/approach) you never wont be decloaking.

There is nothing broke about AFK cloaking, the only thing thats broke (if I had to point to something that is broke in regards to cloaking) is that there is literally nothing you can do about an AFK cloaker. If I were to suggest a solution to this, it would be making it possible to scan down a cloaked ship only under the conditions that you had all scanning skills to level 5 and the skills associated with the ship that is cloaked, after all it would only make sense that you should have to know something about a cloaked enemy vessel and how it operates in order to scan it down. So your skills would in a sense have to look like this.

Astrometrics - level 5

Astrometric Pinpointing - level 5

Astrometric Range Finding - level 5

Astrometric Aquisition - level 5

Cloaking, Covert Ops, Recon Ships, and Black Ops, would all give a 1% bonus per level to the chance of scanning down a cloaked ship.

Even so, I still would not mess with this too much.

You can't do anything about an afk cloaker but at the same time he can't do anything about you.

You can't do anything about an afk cloaker but at the same time he can't do anything about you.

Same treatment ? What do you mean ? There is no same treatment. Obviously CCP catters toward ASB. Fozzie even admitted that ASB is superior and it will remain superior (cba to link), but he said something like "we already have enough modules that cannot be shutdown by another player ... ASB" ... so it's ok for ASB to be immune to neuts, but aar cannot. If that is not enough for you then maybe read new AAR and that it's 1 module max per ship, where obviously you can put on ship as many asbs as you want.

.

Sorry about the length, but the mindless repetition of "AFK Cloaking is bad mmkay" sounds foolish.

Ok i know i did a bit of offtopic , but let's keep facts straight. ASB =/ AAR. The first one is absolutely superior. It really pains when people see any anything in common other than "ancilary".

About AFK cloaking i can just say. It's not problem so what about you live with it ? I kinda even find it funny that people are scared of someone else being in Local :D. Grow some balls and live with it. Being such coward that you need to be alone in local to feel safe is funny.

It is bad though, it's terrible game design to allow one person to not even play the game and shut down all activity in a system.

Yes i completely agree local is ******* terrible although removing local or making cloaks not appear in the local channel is even worse. No one would undock for fear of someone being cloaked in the system, which would in of itself completely shut down any economic activity in nullsec.

So, don't leave the problem half addressed.

From my view, pilots using local in order to avoid hostiles fit into one of two categories:
1: They have no interest in PvP, and would flee to high security if they could not avoid it as they have been doing.
2: They are following the current dynamic in order to be competitive, or are simply in a group mixed with the first type.

Type 1 has no value being outside of high sec, as they will never PvP in the manner intended. They will simply avoid everything always.

I would suggest that local not display cloaked vessels as a condition for any means to hunt or detect cloaked vessels. Local acting in tandem with any meaningful ability to hunt or detect cloaked vessels simply trivializes cloaking.

This destroys balance, and without balance the game lacks fun.

It is bad though, it's terrible game design to allow one person to not even play the game and shut down all activity in a system.

Yes i completely agree local is ******* terrible although removing local or making cloaks not appear in the local channel is even worse. No one would undock for fear of someone being cloaked in the system, which would in of itself completely shut down any economic activity in nullsec.

So,

You're trying to tell me that its not a problem that someone can sit in system cloaked up and at any moment uncloak and drop a cyno right on top of me for their fleet to come in and kill me?

Without me being capable of doing ANYTHING about it?

As i said before, something with no counter other than not playing is ****** game design.

If you read what most people are posting they're asking for a way to fight against it, not be 100% safe and not allow cloakers in system at all.

Ok maybe i'm wrong then. Oh well anyone can be wrong :D. At least i can admit. I leave topic as i feel clueless on this topic. I mean i understand it , but i lack exp about this stuff. So i will move to topics, where i have more to say xd.

So,

You're trying to tell me that its not a problem that someone can sit in system cloaked up and at any moment uncloak and drop a cyno right on top of me for their fleet to come in and kill me?

Without me being capable of doing ANYTHING about it?

As i said before, something with no counter other than not playing is ****** game design.

If you read what most people are posting they're asking for a way to fight against it, not be 100% safe and not allow cloakers in system at all.

So instead, you prefer to be able to sit in null, and be perfectly capable of avoiding ALL FIGHTS unless you are able to drop 5 pilots for every one hostile?

nullsec and local is the bad design, not cloaking.




and besides, any cheesy-ass carebear solution null comes out with ALWAYS involves making wormholes impossible to operate in, as cloaks facilitate ALL of our activities.


Face it, the only people who think Cloaking is a problem are the kind of players who need to go abck high-sec low-sec anyways because they cant handle the "dangerous" bluefest of carebear heaven null is.

>Want to be able to scan down cloakers so i can go fight
>Say that i want to avoid all fights

What?

You seem to be under the impression that hot drops are looking for fair fights.

Did you even read what i said? I'd be happy to gf any fleets that want to hot drop. The problem is they exclusively go for PvE fit ships for dem sweet elite pvp kms, which by the way have no hope against PvP fits.

What I'd prefer is me being able to proactively stop people shutting down any kind of economic activity in nullsec just by logging in and cloaking up. I'd prefer them to like, have to do SOME kind of work.

You seem to be under the impression that hot drops are looking for fair fights.

Did you even read what i said? I'd be happy to gf any fleets that want to hot drop. The problem is they exclusively go for PvE fit ships for dem sweet elite pvp kms, which by the way have no hope against PvP fits.

What I'd prefer is me being able to proactively stop people shutting down any kind of economic activity in nullsec just by logging in and cloaking up. I'd prefer them to like, have to do SOME kind of work.

I leave topic as i feel clueless on this topic.

---

Hot Dropping: Bridging is intended to bypass reinforced blockades and travel time. Here, it has been fine tuned to avoid advertising the presence of a fleet to the free intel tool as well by delaying the easily recognizable population spike till the last possible moment. The intention is to deny the warning local provides, although it still reports the presence of the cyno boat enough to be associated with AFK Cloaking instead.
Quite simply, while PvE pilots would never resume regular activities with a hostile fleet present, they are sometimes willing to gamble over whether a cloaked vessel represents that level of threat at a given time.

---

Your hot dropper is using the only method available to hunt their chosen targets.

With the powerful tool that is Local, and never forgetting that it is a double edged advantage that works for both sides, you get a stalemate effect.

Broken? Undeniably. But it is broken on BOTH sides. And that is perversely balanced.

It is BROKEN that local reports presence of cloaked vessels with zero effort. It would destroy balance to keep this intact and also allow for them to be hunted by additional means.
You already know it is BROKEN that the cloaked vessel cannot be found.

You can't keep balance, unless BOTH broken sides are addressed.

Null sec PvE is a lie, there is no such thing. There is only shooting NPCs while you wait for PvP.

They are polar opposites, you cannot address both without either

A. Giving one side a massive advantage
B. ******* the whole thing completely up

If you remove the ability to see activity in local you will provide people with litterally no capability of knowing there is a cloaker in system. You would have to constantly check EVERY ship on your DScan or have a pilot on every gate and wormhole in EVERY system.

Right now, cloakers can shut down an entire region with 30 pilots and there is no way to counter them other than to take the chance and probably get hot dropped or just leave the region. You should not be rewarded for not playing the god damn game.

They are polar opposites, you cannot address both without either

A. Giving one side a massive advantage
B. ******* the whole thing completely up

If you remove the ability to see activity in local you will provide people with litterally no capability of knowing there is a cloaker in system. You would have to constantly check EVERY ship on your DScan or have a pilot on every gate and wormhole in EVERY system.

Right now, cloakers can shut down an entire region with 30 pilots and there is no way to counter them other than to take the chance and probably get hot dropped or just leave the region. You should not be rewarded for not playing the god damn game.

They are polar opposites, you cannot address both without either

A. Giving one side a massive advantage
B. ******* the whole thing completely up

If you remove the ability to see activity in local you will provide people with litterally no capability of knowing there is a cloaker in system. You would have to constantly check EVERY ship on your DScan or have a pilot on every gate and wormhole in EVERY system.

Right now, cloakers can shut down an entire region with 30 pilots and there is no way to counter them other than to take the chance and probably get hot dropped or just leave the region. You should not be rewarded for not playing the god damn game.

If the local would be removed, the that's give for cloakers more power boost without counter.
Make intel from every 0.0 system, moving to eyes to every gate is impossible.

So, you would maintain that the group effort needed to secure systems, even with the means to hunt cloaked vessels despite local chat not helping find them, is not balanced?

How exactly would someone hunting for you find you, if Local did not hand them your presence on a silver platter?

Perhaps you have not considered what a powerful tool local is for offensive use. It's loss in this manner would certainly open up new options for strategy, especially for PvE interested pilots.

It's called making a call.

You see a non-blue in local you have three options:

1) Dock back up and wait for him to leave (true afk cloaker this won't happen) then whine on the forums
2) Ignore him and do what you're doing right under his nose (if he's afk nothing will happen anyway)
3) Move past him and do your PvE work in another system beyond his potential sight.

If you jump into an enemy system, EVERYTHING you see on scan is going to be hostile so you do not need local for the most part. Local has 0 advantage to them but it is basically a requirement for the people on the other side.

If local does not announce your presence then how can people know to even look for you to begin with?

If you jump into an enemy system, EVERYTHING you see on scan is going to be hostile so you do not need local for the most part. Local has 0 advantage to them but it is basically a requirement for the people on the other side.

If local does not announce your presence then how can people know to even look for you to begin with?

Wormholers seem to find hostiles with no local just fine.

Wormholers seem to find hostiles with no local just fine.

If you jump into an enemy system, EVERYTHING you see on scan is going to be hostile so you do not need local for the most part. Local has 0 advantage to them but it is basically a requirement for the people on the other side.

If local does not announce your presence then how can people know to even look for you to begin with?

Sensors. Teamwork. Strategy.

Gatecamps at bottlenecks is the most obvious tactic, followed by scanning patrols sweeping for cloaked as well as non cloaked hostiles.

How much effort is an alliance's PvE support structure worth?

I didn't realize that WH were restricted to only two corps and that no one will SB attach wormhole dwellers for fun, keeping a covert ops scanning alt in there to constantly find the exit and bring in more gear.

Sensors. Teamwork. Strategy.

Gatecamps at bottlenecks is the most obvious tactic, followed by scanning patrols sweeping for cloaked as well as non cloaked hostiles.

How much effort is an alliance's PvE support structure worth?

Sensors ? Against cloaker ships ? ROTFL

Teamwork ? Maybe the full memberships will be logged on everytime?? What happen when just few member is active ?
They do nothing ?

Strategy ? What strategy ? Keep fleets always up in 24/7 in every system and just wait for cloakers when will be attack? When they have many spies at all biggest alliances and know everything ? LOL

People keep saying they want to be able to hunt afk cloakers so they can "pvp".


Untill they decloak a HIC that lights a cyno and unloads a fleet on them.

Well yes, kind of is a no brainer for a small group to flee in terror when a force ten times their size appears. Because that would be the smart, non-suicidal thing to do.

My point is they will still cower in fear of cloaking vessels as long as they can see them in local. If CCP adds a way to hunt cloakers the cloakers will just adapt to make hunting them a very risky propostion.

Part of the reason why I would suggest a counter strategy being added rather than a flat out nerf actually if anything is done at all. Because it'd still take effort and have risk involved.

Sensors ? Against cloaker ships ? ROTFL

Teamwork ? Maybe the full memberships will be logged on everytime?? What happen when just few member is active ?
They do nothing ?

Strategy ? What strategy ? Keep fleets always up in 24/7 in every system and just wait for cloakers when will be attack? When they have many spies at all biggest alliances and know everything ? LOL
You dont know nothing from this game, if talk these stupid things.

u sir, belong in hi-sec.....

I am most tempted to AWOX in the entire CFC.

Telling to me a noob alt who has 33kills empire kms and his effiency is a piece of sh*t:D
Thats our differences, i'm living in 0.0 and your charater live in high sec, and i'm not lurking behind and alt.
First, you need to try write a post with your main, if you want for anybody to take your message seriously.

You REALY don't want to start trying to bring people's killboards into this.

This topic is going off-topic.

They are polar opposites, you cannot address both without either

A. Giving one side a massive advantage
B. ******* the whole thing completely up

If you remove the ability to see activity in local you will provide people with litterally no capability of knowing there is a cloaker in system. You would have to constantly check EVERY ship on your DScan or have a pilot on every gate and wormhole in EVERY system.

Right now, cloakers can shut down an entire region with 30 pilots and there is no way to counter them other than to take the chance and probably get hot dropped or just leave the region. You should not be rewarded for not playing the god damn game.

+1

It never was on topic. It's pretty much 5 pages of uniteligble ranting by Hun, with some "go away alt" and E-PEEN waving about his 250 pages of nothing but blobmails (not one of which he did more than 10% damage)

The people that wanted to make their points have made them. All that's left is to enjoy the thread until a mod locks it.

Isn't that like, completely irrelevant? I never said 2 corps so i have no idea what you mean like that.

WH space is supposed to be dangerous and have very little intel support because the rewards are so ******* high.

"Lets try to shut them up once and for all, CYNO's and BLOPS CYNO's, while you merry chaps can control what comes into your hole as CYNO's and BLOPS CYNO's do not work in WH space, us null sec chaps cannot due to CYNO's and BLOPS CYNO's, a cloaky Anathema in WH space is no threat, but arm that blighter with a CYNO or BLOPS CYNO in 0.0 and its a massive threat."

The only difference is the anathenema in 0.0 can bring in a large fleet in a much shorter timeframe.

"The only difference is the anathenema in 0.0 can bring in a large fleet" ?

Did you read what I wrote ?

"Lets try to shut them up once and for all, CYNO's and BLOPS CYNO's, while you merry chaps can control what comes into your hole as CYNO's and BLOPS CYNO's do not work in WH space, us null sec chaps cannot due to CYNO's and BLOPS CYNO's, a cloaky Anathema in WH space is no threat, but arm that blighter with a CYNO or BLOPS CYNO in 0.0 and its a massive threat."

AFK Cloaking - problem.

Cloak cycle time - 5 minutes
Reload time - 5 minutes
Capacity - 6 charges for covert ops cloaks (30 minutes before reload), 3 for non covops cloaks (15 minutes before reload)
Charges are required to cloak

AFK cloaking - solved.

Yes, thats why he forget something when try to evade with WH cloaking explain.
WH is totally different, they cant use hodrop,bops.

Cyno/BlOps Cyno are means to counter the perfect intelligence that is known as local. One ship can/will spawn many, without local the cyno ship wold be just as blind as whether to light it as you would be to its prescience.

PFFFFF.
What you see in local ? Just one lonely ship before he open the cyno and almost always when too late and they dropped their fleet in the best moment to target.

That doesn't even make any sense. If you're going to completely ignore the questions you keep being asked, can you at least try to do so in English?

What ? Language arguments? :D

The only difference is the anathenema in 0.0 can bring in a large fleet in a much shorter timeframe.
Also you just proved my point. Being able to hunt cloakies won't change anything. People will still cower in fear about the potential that the ship carries a cyno.

Not entirely true. You can say some people will act like that, but not all. Some would send a gank squad against a detected cloaker to try to kill them before cyno, some might go solo, etc etc. There isn't just one mindset when you get down to it, especially when you consider that there is some prep time in getting a fleet together. It would be a OMG, EVERYTHING'S CHANGED thing though obviously.

AFK - no problem.

Cloaked pilots - the op hate em.

there is no trouble with the afk cloaked that can't be solved by taking out of the free intel channel.

Not entirely true. You can say some people will act like that, but not all. Some would send a gank squad against a detected cloaker to try to kill them before cyno, some might go solo, etc etc. There isn't just one mindset when you get down to it, especially when you consider that there is some prep time in getting a fleet together. It would be a OMG, EVERYTHING'S CHANGED thing though obviously.

Yes but those people don't post on the forums asking for a way to counter something they already found a way to counter.

Is there even a current counter for them beyond "ignore them" or "hope you get impossibly lucky"?

send a gank squad against a detected cloaker to try to kill them

I don't know... sounds to me like that falls under the impossibly lucky because if they uncloak, they are either a) stupid, b) you got incredibly lucky and caught them one of the few times they uncloaked, or c) too late, they're doing what they came to do, gather the army.

You can bait them. Use your own cloaking ships and then send out something that looks like a carebear ship.

Or you can just make it obvious that you have ships waiting to kill them should they decloak, therefore they won't decloak and will be unable to do anything to you. Thus countering them (they neither get kills nor get to deny you isk)



Hotdrops are a different beast and honestly require their own thread.

That still sounds ridiculously easy to deal with. I mean, what... generally you'd have maybe 5-10 seconds at most to catch the cloaker once you detected them? Chances are not even that as you're not likely to detect them the instant they decloak.

If they aren't on grid with you when they decloak they aren't likely to be much of a threat. (it also defeats the point of a "hot drop" if the fleet then has to warp to whoever they plan on ganking)

If they are on grid you should have no problems detecting them the moment they decloak and try something.

I don't know... seems kind of a good way to throw people off to me... and as I said, once a cloaker is in position its probably too late if they know what they're doing. Not to mention that they are definitely pretty much invincible as scouts, which is something that people would still want to try and counteract.

Telling to me a noob alt who has 33kills empire kms and his effiency is a piece of sh*t:D
Thats our differences, i'm living in 0.0 and your charater live in high sec, and i'm not lurking behind and alt.
First, you need to try write a post with your main, if you want for anybody to take your message seriously.

Every post I wrote thus far is about making sure that I am safe to rat in my faction-fit Vindicator in 0.0 without anyone ever disturbing me.

Fozzie did a recent podcast stating they were looking into new intel tools for alliances so that they can nerf local - so that will happen eventually and make a lot of people in this thread happy. With that out of the way the conversation turns to cloaking.

The reason cloaking is a problem is that there isn't a sufficient counter to cloaking. Everything in eve has a counter, and cloaking does not deserve a special exemption to that. Noah, back when he was lead game designer a few years ago, agreed that afk-cloaking is a problem and needed a counter. But he also said there are technical limitations that prevent something such as a probing out cloaked player. They wanted to change cloaking, but didn't have a solution at the time.

By requiring cloaking to have charges and still allowing a reasonable amount of cloaking time, opposing players will have an opportunity to scan out cloaked players while they are reloading. It's not a direct counter, but sufficient enough and gets around those technical limitations. Cloaking is an important piece of game play, but it needs to be a balanced piece of game play. Players have also talked about a cloaking jammer, but that doesn't fix having a counter for cloaking outside of sov space.

Adjusted the OP to reflect the fact that players should be able to de-cloak when needed without waiting for a 5 minute cycle.

I wouldn't be too mad about cloaking if it wasn't completely impossible to do anything about it.

I love that cloakers can be used for gathering intel, i love that they can be used for getting through systems without dying.

Jumping into a ratting system for example and warping to a safe and cloaking up and staying logged on for a week (logging in straight after downtime) is a bit of a joke.

People will say "yea if he's afk he can't do anything to you" however there is no way you can know that he is AFK and the threat of him being there and being able to hot drop you is more than enough to shut down any kind of activity in that system.

You don't have to fight, you don't even have to try and there is no risk involved. It

All of you pro cloak nerfs quit using logic. That kind of thing is NOT ALLOWED , because it all logic can be beaten with "qqmore" "carebear go hisec" and "it r fair because it r meant to be unbeatable"

So sh and learn your place due to the infallible arguments of everyone against you I've summed up above this.

All of you pro cloak nerfs quit using logic. That kind of thing is NOT ALLOWED , because it all logic can be beaten with "qqmore" "carebear go hisec" and "it r fair because it r meant to be unbeatable"

So sh and learn your place due to the infallible arguments of everyone against you I've summed up above this.

All of you pro cloak nerfs quit using logic. That kind of thing is NOT ALLOWED , because it all logic can be beaten with "qqmore" "carebear go hisec" and "it r fair because it r meant to be unbeatable"

So sh and learn your place due to the infallible arguments of everyone against you I've summed up above this.

What logic would that be?

Is it the one about AFK cloakers shutting down systems?
Is it the one about them being AFK and a threat, with no mention of local as the mechanic that's actually being used?
Or maybe it's the one where they try to say AFK cloakers are totally safe? But of course don't mention, that that applies to both sides.

No really, please explain the logic these nerf AFK cloakers are using. I'm sure we would all love to know.

You could present your own logical argument of course. But why bother, when you can post irrelevant claptrap? Amirite?

TL;DR: Remove Local instead. From any standpoint at all ingame it's pointless and makes no sense. Who is keeping track of all these people to report it to you? Does Concord magically do it? You should stop being so mad about AFK cloaking and learn to play an eve where you might be required to actually fight somebody at some point.

No, removing local is a stupid idea.

No remove local.

Keep local make it so nullifed T3's have an 8/10 chance to blow up when they cloak, requires cloaking 5 and cyno 5 and takes 5 navy 800's to work each time.

No remove local.

It's a stupid idea regardless of who says it.

No, it's not more stupid. It's not less stupid either.
As others have said in other threads, this is a solution looking for a problem. Local does not need to be fixed, and neither does cloaking. Neither of those are problems. AFK cloaking is a legitimate tactic to deny people the use of their space, and local is the only means by which someone can have any sort of safety when doing PVE in null for any extended period of time.

You think null is deserted now? Take local away and I guarantee you the population will drop drastically.

Quite a few people play in WH space despite the lack of local and the player skill necessary to play there at all.

Frankly, the local chat member display is an impediment to people playing in nullsec in general.

Nobody likes trying to look like they are sneaking around when they have a great big spotlight on them.

No, it's not more stupid. It's not less stupid either.
As others have said in other threads, this is a solution looking for a problem. Local does not need to be fixed, and neither does cloaking. Neither of those are problems. AFK cloaking is a legitimate tactic to deny people the use of their space, and local is the only means by which someone can have any sort of safety when doing PVE in null for any extended period of time.

You think null is deserted now? Take local away and I guarantee you the population will drop drastically.

No, it's not more stupid. It's not less stupid either.
As others have said in other threads, this is a solution looking for a problem. Local does not need to be fixed, and neither does cloaking. Neither of those are problems. AFK cloaking is a legitimate tactic to deny people the use of their space, and local is the only means by which someone can have any sort of safety when doing PVE in null for any extended period of time.

You think null is deserted now? Take local away and I guarantee you the population will drop drastically.

All I'm saying is that local, as it currently is, is not a good system. I'm not saying removing it all together would be any better, but your statements about it being absolutely necessary for pve, and that populations will drastically drop without it are a bit exaggerated I feel. To be honest it's only a hairs breadth away from the highsec carebears and their cries of mass desolation and the death of eve if they can't keep things exactly as they are (or make them even more themeparky)

Edit: Additionally, the only reason why people would stop PVEing in null if there was no local is because of the almighty hot drop (that has to be the only reason, since it's the only thing that makes it massively different from wormholes, where stupid people pve their hearts out and get killed plenty)... but I don't see that as a reason why local must be kept the exactly the same.

Preserving crap systems purely because fixing them would mean some other systems would then need some reworking too is a bad approach, imo

You are describing pilots who avoid PvP to an absolute degree

that has to be the only reason, since it's the only thing that makes it massively different from wormholes

Because someone wants to be able to make some isk means they avoid PVP to an absolute degree?
That's a bit of a stretch, don't you think?

Who will miss those who leave?

You are describing pilots who avoid PvP to an absolute degree, and would go so far as to leave for high security space in the event they could not continue to do this.

Do I really have to remind you that there are several relevant mechanics that are different between WH space and null that makes the lack of local viable in one and not the other?

Yes, you do, because I'm not seeing it.

In fact, now that you've got me thinking about it, I'm hard pressed to come up with anything that is actually relevant apart from the fact that doing away with the local member list in nullsec would be a change, and it's already that way in WH space.

Of course some people would flee from the change, where others would revel in it.

Why go through the effort of making isk in null at significant risk to my ship if I can make almost as much isk in highsec?
I mean seriously, you seem to think we're incapable of doing a risk-benefit analysis.

It is impossible to both defend yourself and make a decent profit in a nullsec that doesn't have the intel that local provides. It's not a question of how averse we are to risk, it's a question of how much risk actually makes sense to operate in.

You would have to increase the rewards of null by a lot to compensate, and it's rather questionable how much of a good idea that is, seeing as that would be taking an already quite substantial isk faucet and making it even worse.

You haven't demonstrated that there's a problem with local that needs fixing.

Maybe you're just ignorant then.
Because mass limitations, inability to cyno as you mentioned, group vs. solo pve content, both system entrances and PVE sites that require combat probes to locate, sleeper AI, and omni sleeper damage and tank all contribute to an environment where PVP is both easier to avoid and easier to deal with in cases where it isn't possible to avoid.

Not at all. I am sure you can do a cost benefit analysis, but if you use flawed data you will get flawed results.

You are suggesting, that only with the absolute flawless and immediate intel awareness provided by local, can you operate.
In order for that to be true, those hunting you would need to be psychic, and aware of your every action and movement.
After all, you are insisting on knowing the moment a hostile enters a system in order to have a reasonable play experience.

And removing the roster from local chat only removes one intel source from the defender, when there are several more relevant intel sources and methods available to deal with *all* of the threats you mentioned.

And you're insisting that leaving me utterly unable to avoid getting pointed by a cloaky recon ship who drops 20 stealth bombers on me five seconds later is somehow conducive to me ratting in my own space.
Without local there's no way to tell that he's there, there's no way to defend against it before it happens, and once it happens it's too late to do anything about. It's as simple as that.

You know this and you're simply asking for CCP to feed you easy targets instead of doing the work yourself.

And yet somehow wormhole dwellers survive without local. (also recons have a targeting delay after decloaking so if it points you it's because you weren't paying attention)

Yeah, come back to me when d-scan is able to detect cloaked ships.
But I'm guessing you're going to tell me that's not going to happen, because you want to have your cake and eat it too.

If you can't be bothered to read you should leave the thread.
Also that's true, in which case a stealth bomber would work better.

If you are referring to your argument that "wormholes are different because the atacker has to use probes to find you"
You fail to realize that assumes the atacker will always be entering the system after you and didn't already scan the site down.

If you remove local being an infalable intell tool, then providing some means of hunting cloaked ships would not be unreasonable.

No, I realize that, but the added difficulty required on part of the attacker reduces the risk of this happening.


I don't care about hunting cloaked ships. I just want to be able to know that someone who's cloaked is there.

Maybe you're just ignorant then.
Because mass limitations, inability to cyno as you mentioned, group vs. solo pve content, both system entrances and PVE sites that require combat probes to locate, sleeper AI, and omni sleeper damage and tank all contribute to an environment where PVP is both easier to avoid and easier to deal with in cases where it isn't possible to avoid.

No. Do you have scouts on every gate of your ratting system and probes in the air while you PVE?

I'll let you decide how you handle your finances. I don't personally pay salaries to my alts.

So you pay $15 or 500 million isk every month just to have a single system entrance covered?
I'm not sure which is worse, the fact that you actually think this is a good system, or the fact that you think we'd actually do this instead of going to highsec where we'd get more profit after these deductions for far less effort.

So go back to highsec. You aren't pvping anyway.

So you pay $15 or 500 million isk every month just to have a single system entrance covered?
I'm not sure which is worse, the fact that you actually think this is a good system, or the fact that you think we'd actually do this instead of going to highsec where we'd get more profit for far less effort.