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SengH
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Posted - 2005.07.12 21:47:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Moghydin
Actually, yes. I think that high sec and low sec represent two different styles of game-play. One is PvP and other PvE for combat style pilots, and "carebearing" for not interested in combat. Why one should be better than the other is beyond me.
You say that because you have more risk, you should have more reward and that's why the missions should be nerfed, but where's the risk in tech II manufacturing? And it's 100's of times more profitable than any mission-running. Missions were great for those who are not yet good enough to compete with 0.0 PvPers, to safely trade skills and earn ISK, so that a loss of a ship woouldn't force them to mine for weeks or fly in low-end ships.
Tech 2 manufacturing is a very bad example to pick. The tech 2 minerals(most of the rare ones) can only be found in 0.0. Hauling is one of the most dangerous activities out in 0.0 and thus they are rewarded. Keeping ice supplied to POSes is no mean feat. Ive been keeping 4 Large POSes and 1 medium supplied 50 jumps out from empire w/o soverignity(albeit not for industrial reasons) but its a sheer pain. The problem at the moment is that the T2 component market is a buyers market not a sellers market. If you can complete the whole process, then by all means go ahead, but in its form, it requires some interaction with 0.0. NAGA has POSes out in 0.0 and they take the risks. They lost 2 POSes so far.
P.S. Just trying to have a friendly debate while at work heh 2 more hours to kill
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SengH
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Posted - 2005.07.12 21:47:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Moghydin
Actually, yes. I think that high sec and low sec represent two different styles of game-play. One is PvP and other PvE for combat style pilots, and "carebearing" for not interested in combat. Why one should be better than the other is beyond me.
You say that because you have more risk, you should have more reward and that's why the missions should be nerfed, but where's the risk in tech II manufacturing? And it's 100's of times more profitable than any mission-running. Missions were great for those who are not yet good enough to compete with 0.0 PvPers, to safely trade skills and earn ISK, so that a loss of a ship woouldn't force them to mine for weeks or fly in low-end ships.
Tech 2 manufacturing is a very bad example to pick. The tech 2 minerals(most of the rare ones) can only be found in 0.0. Hauling is one of the most dangerous activities out in 0.0 and thus they are rewarded. Keeping ice supplied to POSes is no mean feat. Ive been keeping 4 Large POSes and 1 medium supplied 50 jumps out from empire w/o soverignity(albeit not for industrial reasons) but its a sheer pain. The problem at the moment is that the T2 component market is a buyers market not a sellers market. If you can complete the whole process, then by all means go ahead, but in its form, it requires some interaction with 0.0. NAGA has POSes out in 0.0 and they take the risks. They lost 2 POSes so far.
P.S. Just trying to have a friendly debate while at work heh 2 more hours to kill
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Earthan
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Posted - 2005.07.12 21:49:00 -
[33]
I moved as soon as i got my first cruiser.But i was steadily moving down the sec as soon as i could beat the npc with my new ships in lower systems.
I was mining in imicus in 0.2-0.3 systems:) ( old old times)
Hmmm good observation.
Im not sure but i think there is a tendaency in poeple to stay in empire , get bored to helll in isk threadmill and leave game.While i was going lower and lower sec with my new frigates , and experiencing some new risk and challenge poeple were staying with cruisers in high sec and saying its boring.
Also i think i got this vison of flourishing 0.0 with both pve mainly pilots and pure pvp pilots, i would love to see it , imho it would be most fun:).
But ofc its my own toughts , i really dont have anything against poeple who stay in empire, just make them earn considerably less and im ok.
Stars, stars like dust, all around me.... |
Earthan
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Posted - 2005.07.12 21:49:00 -
[34]
I moved as soon as i got my first cruiser.But i was steadily moving down the sec as soon as i could beat the npc with my new ships in lower systems.
I was mining in imicus in 0.2-0.3 systems:) ( old old times)
Hmmm good observation.
Im not sure but i think there is a tendaency in poeple to stay in empire , get bored to helll in isk threadmill and leave game.While i was going lower and lower sec with my new frigates , and experiencing some new risk and challenge poeple were staying with cruisers in high sec and saying its boring.
Also i think i got this vison of flourishing 0.0 with both pve mainly pilots and pure pvp pilots, i would love to see it , imho it would be most fun:).
But ofc its my own toughts , i really dont have anything against poeple who stay in empire, just make them earn considerably less and im ok.
Stars, stars like dust, all around me.... |
SengH
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Posted - 2005.07.12 21:50:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Allen Deckard
Another question. Did you move straight to .0 when you started the game?
I moved into 0.0 within my 2nd month of starting the game with my scythe and ninja mined bist. I didnt get my BS till 2 months ago. I'm only a 9 mth old character.
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SengH
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Posted - 2005.07.12 21:50:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Allen Deckard
Another question. Did you move straight to .0 when you started the game?
I moved into 0.0 within my 2nd month of starting the game with my scythe and ninja mined bist. I didnt get my BS till 2 months ago. I'm only a 9 mth old character.
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Arain
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Posted - 2005.07.12 21:57:00 -
[37]
Ok this is compareing apples to oranges. You want to limit what I earn based on the fact that you have to travel further (your choice) and you have to put up with more risk, IE other players (also your choice). There are a lot of things I think wrong about the PvP strangle hold on 0.0 space but I don't post to try and get it changed. All I am doing is objecting to changes made to make the PvP contingent happy that impact the PvE players. Someone else posted on one of these threads that he did not want to work for a corp or some rich person as thats what he did in real life. Well I echo that feeling. I play this game to escape for a while from real life and I have no desire to have to deal with gankers who get thier chuckles from makeing others game play miserable. I deal with enough jerks in real life. I know you say this can be avoided by joining a big corp, but I enjoy playing with a few friends, not haveing my life dictated by some officer in a corp.
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Moghydin
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Posted - 2005.07.12 21:59:00 -
[38]
And what will I meet in 0.0 and on my way there? Endless ganksquads of people who will shoot you just for fun. They call it PvP, but in most MMORPG's it considered pk'ing. There's too many of these guys. May be I can handle 1 or 2 of them, but not ganksquads who will also scramble and jam you, thus making you a sitting duck. Add to this the danger of being ganked while hunting NPC's too. So, these guys are actually preventing a lot of players from venturing into 0.0 and then are asking themselves, why are so many people do stay in empire space?
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Allen Deckard
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Posted - 2005.07.12 22:03:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Earthan
I moved as soon as i got my first cruiser.But i was steadily moving down the sec as soon as i could beat the npc with my new ships in lower systems.
I was mining in imicus in 0.2-0.3 systems:) ( old old times)
Hmmm good observation.
Im not sure but i think there is a tendaency in poeple to stay in empire , get bored to helll in isk threadmill and leave game.While i was going lower and lower sec with my new frigates , and experiencing some new risk and challenge poeple were staying with cruisers in high sec and saying its boring.
Also i think i got this vison of flourishing 0.0 with both pve mainly pilots and pure pvp pilots, i would love to see it , imho it would be most fun:).
But ofc its my own toughts , i really dont have anything against poeple who stay in empire, just make them earn considerably less and im ok.
But why do you care so much? Why does does anyone care so much? I mean I play all sorts of different things in this game. If your grinding or feel like your grinding tough crap it's your fault do something else. But why do you care where people make isk/ how much they have/ what they do with it. f
If empire people make a bil isk fine by me just means they gonna pay more for my local hull conversions I when I bring them to town.
I guess I think of it like real life (I know taboo) but I choose a career in life cause it is something I like to do. I could make more money doing something else maybe but I like doing what I do. I also like living where I live I could move and make more money most definately but I like where I live. I don't get upset because someone in an a/c office somewhere is making more than me on the construction site I am happy if they are happy good for them if not tough.
As far as an isk treadmill isn't that one of the largest goals people set for themselves in this game? Not saying everyone but a very large majority.
Lastly you say (old times) thus I assume you have been around since games beginings. I have not. But you also seem to state they you moved to .0 very soon after starting game. When you first started the game was there 20 pirate bs's at every gate entering and flying around .0?
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SengH
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Posted - 2005.07.12 22:10:00 -
[40]
Edited by: SengH on 12/07/2005 22:10:10
Originally by: Allen Deckard
But why do you care so much? Why does does anyone care so much? I mean I play all sorts of different things in this game. If your grinding or feel like your grinding tough crap it's your fault do something else. But why do you care where people make isk/ how much they have/ what they do with it. f
If empire people make a bil isk fine by me just means they gonna pay more for my local hull conversions I when I bring them to town.
I guess I think of it like real life (I know taboo) but I choose a career in life cause it is something I like to do. I could make more money doing something else maybe but I like doing what I do. I also like living where I live I could move and make more money most definately but I like where I live. I don't get upset because someone in an a/c office somewhere is making more than me on the construction site I am happy if they are happy good for them if not tough.
As far as an isk treadmill isn't that one of the largest goals people set for themselves in this game? Not saying everyone but a very large majority.
Lastly you say (old times) thus I assume you have been around since games beginings. I have not. But you also seem to state they you moved to .0 very soon after starting game. When you first started the game was there 20 pirate bs's at every gate entering and flying around .0?
Because with the nature of eve everything is linked. The economy which makes eve great also makes problems in one area affect another. And i highly doubt there are 20 bs's at every gate waiting to gank someone who flies in, esp with the NWO. The myth that every gate into 0.0 is camped 23/7 is flawed. Not even CA could pull that off at the height of their power at a single gate(HED-GP).
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Earthan
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Posted - 2005.07.12 22:11:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Earthan on 12/07/2005 22:12:45
There arent 20 pirates at every gate .Period.There arent 20 pirates at every 0.0 chokepoint.Mostly 0.0 is empty.You must watch out near empire and in certain very few systems.Your image of 0.0 is very wrong, im sure you have never been in 0.0 alliance.
For isk i care because somewhere deep in the bottom isk determines how this game develops and in wich direction moves.ITs the only and ulitamte source of poeple changing style of playing.As examples recent Level4 missions , many 0.0 pilots moved back to empire.
Why? its specualtion but imho most of the goals people set in Eve involve isk.For some isk is the aim.For some being a killer pvp pilot is the aim, you need a huge load of isk for ships and modules, to upkeep your losses( you never have enough as named modules are insanely expensive and each module can help in battle),some want to dominate trade isn some regions again you need isk.
So isk determines the face of Eve.
Why do i care how Eve looks?
Because i love it:)
Stars, stars like dust, all around me.... |
boldielocks
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Posted - 2005.07.12 22:17:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Earthan
Whats the problem with joining alliances? i mean its no biggie...
Well all the allaince i've looked in to are not intrested in a 6man corp and tell me i must murge with on of there corps if i want to join losing all self identity in the progress which my corp don't want to do. so yes joining a allinance is a biggie for some
There's no such thing as madness,
just diffrent degrees of normality. |
Arain
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Posted - 2005.07.12 22:25:00 -
[43]
Old times. I was around then too. You could go anywhere you wanted pretty much no one bothered you. I too did a lot of hunting in low sec space. Of course 0.0 was not itemized then. The mobs when you found them did not drop anything. The problem is a certain amount of people in this game are bored with PvE or even consential PvP like corp wars. They enjoy going out and killing anyone they can find who can up thier kill total. Its not like they proffit much from it most of the stuff gets destroyed. So they destroy a ship and mods and whatever cargo the guy happened to be carrying and if they are lucky a few items don't get destroyed. Maybe 10 percent of the value of what they destroyed. But its fun for them. They managed to kill that industrial in thier gankageddon. Wow such a challenge. Now adays its hard to even run cargo missions for agents as they tend to send you through low sec space where gate campers like to set up. Got to admit I can not understand why someone enjoys sitting at a gate for hours just to get the one unwary newbee that flys through. Although CCP in thier infinate wisdom is trying to fix that too by getting rid of instants and makeing warp scramblers more effective. Gotta keep those PvP boys happy. They are all that count.
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Earthan
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Posted - 2005.07.12 22:30:00 -
[44]
For going anywhere in 0.0 then in truth on my first 0.0 trip i got blown after 2 hours by a pvp pirate ( was in one of the first bs-s dominix wow lol)
On my second trip in a new lol vexor i sneaked into stain mined some crock and got chased by stain alliance out.
So imho it isnt so much different .
Maybe you are talking about really first weeks in Eve , sorry it took me months to get a cruiser and go to 0.0.
Stars, stars like dust, all around me.... |
Allen Deckard
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Posted - 2005.07.12 23:09:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Earthan
Edited by: Earthan on 12/07/2005 22:15:04
Edited by: Earthan on 12/07/2005 22:12:45
There arent 20 pirates at every gate .Period.There arent 20 pirates at every 0.0 chokepoint.Mostly 0.0 is empty.You must watch out near empire and in certain very few systems.Your image of 0.0 is very wrong, im sure you have never been in 0.0 alliance.
For isk i care because somewhere deep in the bottom isk determines how this game develops and in wich direction moves.ITs the only and ulitamte source of poeple changing style of playing.As examples recent Level4 missions , many 0.0 pilots moved back to empire.
Why? its specualtion but imho most of the goals people set in Eve involve isk.For some isk is the aim.For some being a killer pvp pilot is the aim, you need a huge load of isk for ships and modules, to upkeep your losses( you never have enough as named modules are insanely expensive and each module can help in battle),some want to dominate trade isn some regions again you need isk.
So isk determines the face of Eve.
Why do i care how Eve looks?
Because i love it:)
In context the obvious exageration that was trying to get across is that in the "early" times you didn't have the posibility of an enemy bs fleet equiped with t2 and faction mods behind every gate. No I realize they arent behind every gate but if you go threw enough gates your going to find one.
I am in a .0 alliance in syndicate.
I also do not limit myself to only 1 aspect of the game as so many seem to do.
See what I have read from above is this.
1. Early times people didn't have all the benifits that they do now. Someone else said that they didn't have all the agents, different roids, implants, so on and so forth.
2. The next guy comes forward and says In the early times "I got killed by one of the first bs's. This tells me there obviously werent very many bs;s.
3. Next guy says come to .0 after a couple days of playing you'll have fun you can tackle for me. Course thats all you can do but hey it will help me. Oh and if I am not online you can just wait till I am online in the dock.
4. Someone says you don't need any isk to pvp and live in .0 just fly what you can afford to loose. (yah fly what you can afford to loose cause I am gonna make sure you loose it is what it should say)
5. then another statement like "For some being a killer pvp pilot is the aim, you need a huge load of isk for ships and modules, to upkeep your losses"
Lastly
no I don't think my image of .0 is wrong. Yes you can ninja mine in .0 you can run to a ss each time someone comes along. Is that fun? no not really. why be there if all your going to do is run? Gather up 5 friends and go pvp? true but unless your mega rich can afford t2 frigs to loose and equip with faction mods or t2 equipment you mostlikely going to loose to the enemy 5 ships.
Anyway .0 isn't for everyone. If your in .0 hopefully it isn't just to make isk. It's cause you get to carve out a nitch place call it your own then defend it. No matter what isk people make in empire they cant do that.
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Srewolf Bane
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Posted - 2005.07.12 23:13:00 -
[46]
I love the idea, and I still dont see the hostility towards mission runners... we do help the economy and at least we arent trying to ransom every helpless space nut in EVE.
Hey Joshua, nice sig :)
LLEERRROOYYYY JJJEENN***IINNNSSSSS!!!! BBOOYYYAAAAA!!!
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"I feel sorry for people who don't drink, when they wake up in the morning that's the best they will feel all day" - Frank Sinatra |
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