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Bounty and Priate Hunters Lossing Security Status

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Srewolf Bane	Posted - 2005.07.14 18:08:00 - [31] Originally by: Avon Murder is murder. 'Pirate hunters' want to kill people for money. They are not interested in dealing out justice or helping the community, don't let them fool you. If they were killing for justice they wouldn't be worried about sec status - afterall, they wouldn't be blowing up anyone but outlaws, no matter what the bounty. If they are after the bounty then they can't expect to be treated any better than pirates - killing for isk. If anything they are WORSE than pirates - pirates want to take your stuff, they want to take your clone. Not true, I dont want to lose my sec rating cuz of pirates and I am out for justice... its just too bad you cant do both ------------------------------------------------ "I feel sorry for people who don't drink, when they wake up in the morning that's the best they will feel all day" - Frank Sinatra
The Hanz	Posted - 2005.07.14 19:39:00 - [32] Okay assume that I am an alt, fact is any smart person who finds themselves outgunned is just gonna safespot and insta jump out of the system. If people can fight whole alliances, avoid gatecamps(sometimes) the noble "pirate hunter" is no problem for most of us.
Lansfear	Posted - 2005.07.14 22:43:00 - [33] Originally by: The Hanz Okay assume that I am an alt, fact is any smart person who finds themselves outgunned is just gonna safespot and insta jump out of the system. If people can fight whole alliances, avoid gatecamps(sometimes) the noble "pirate hunter" is no problem for most of us. Then add some ideas to the thread. How owuld you like to see the Bounty Hunter Profession evolve?
PsyBoRG	Posted - 2005.07.15 02:35:00 - [34] how about u just adapt we pirates did i mean im tired of not being able to go into 0.5 and buying stuff having alt's move my stuff around because there is no where in low sec to get anything usefull and also low sec is very badly connected which makes it hard to move around but u know what we are still here even though we get nerfed every patch and tbh bounty hunter hunts ppl for money ie bounty's he does not care about anything but the bounty pirate hunter kills pirates i like ur flagging idea though if it allows the pirates to fire back ie. take the combat initiative if not you should have sentry's pounding u just like everyone else that fires on a non criminal tbh http://www.snigg.cjb.net/
Unbeleever	Posted - 2005.07.15 05:05:00 - [35] A permit would be a good option for bounty hunters. Ya gotto pay for it, and it will last for only so long, and the pirate can fire back at you without reprecussions. It would be like a mini war deck for the bounty hunter to try and get the bounty and the pirate to defend himself with out the bounty hunter getting a sec loss. And the bounty hunter could only pull a permit on some one that has like 250,000 or half a mil bounty. And to make it interesting you could put a feature like a mail that is sent to the pirate that there are rumblings around the sation bars and pubs that someone is looking for you. Kinda put the role plasy thing in there but maybe not a good idea but its my 2 iskies For me... Group therapy is a 30 pack of BEER!! Then all of the voices are satisfied.
Lansfear	Posted - 2005.07.15 05:06:00 - [36] Edited by: Lansfear on 15/07/2005 05:07:55 Edited by: Lansfear on 15/07/2005 05:06:14 Psyborg, Read the whole thread and comment on everyones ideas, perhaps your ideas will help find a nice solution. Remember this helps both hunter and pirate. Gives both perfessions some spice.
PsyBoRG	Posted - 2005.07.15 07:54:00 - [37] Originally by: Lansfear Edited by: Lansfear on 15/07/2005 05:07:55 Edited by: Lansfear on 15/07/2005 05:06:14 Psyborg, Read the whole thread and comment on everyones ideas, perhaps your ideas will help find a nice solution. Remember this helps both hunter and pirate. Gives both perfessions some spice. i did 90% buhu'ing i got low sec which is filtered out by my common sense filter yes spice to game play is but if this is really what u wanna do in the game u get good doing this then it will not matter if u are +5.0 or -10.0 u will have a name for your self which means ppl will know why u are there in the first place anyway if ppl are pirates they will have -5.0 soon enough in this game so just give it a month or so hell man im allready -6.0 and alot of our other members went the same way oh and Yarrrrr http://www.snigg.cjb.net/
Cenzo	Posted - 2005.07.15 12:55:00 - [38] Players with low sec status should be able to enter any system without instadeath. However, a sec status threshold should be set that allows any other player to fire upon them.
PsyBoRG	Posted - 2005.07.15 13:28:00 - [39] Originally by: Cenzo Players with low sec status should be able to enter any system without instadeath. However, a sec status threshold should be set that allows any other player to fire upon them. i wont say that i disagree coz i dont but im not gonna sit here and buhu about it coz thats not the way things are atm though there will also be a problem with newbs attacking a low sec player in 1.0 and him slaughtering the newb in his hac so it will be hard to implement and anyways we are abit off-topic here so lets get back to the case at hand http://www.snigg.cjb.net/
Dexter Rast	Posted - 2005.07.15 13:46:00 - [40] Originally by: Cenzo Players with low sec status should be able to enter any system without instadeath. However, a sec status threshold should be set that allows any other player to fire upon them. i had raised this point in another thread, it makes sense to allow -10 sec status into empire and would put alot of the law keeping into the hands of the players themselves, crimes should still be punishable by concord and maybe an attack block made on those with low sec status so they cannot agress while in high sec, that would rule out the suicide bombers as another person had also stated, this would allow free movement for -10 guys whilst putting the risk in their court, imaging being an outlaw and trying to move through the gate camps in jita and other hot spots like that. the outlaw should be allowed to defend themselves though, but i would think a change like this would add a hell of a lot of action into the game, and also reduce alot of the movement boundries imposed on -10 players ---------------------------------------------
TuRtLe HeAd	Posted - 2005.07.15 14:31:00 - [41] Multiple threads in ideas and discussions Linkage This is a smart one from my hero Drunkenone DRUNKEN ONE SAYS Then theres this one here The List goes on ! There needs to be a way to get a license to hunt an individual player (Ore theives with Low Sec status would also get hurt )
Lansfear	Posted - 2005.07.16 17:37:00 - [42] Lots of great ideas in all the threads. Lets hope someone from CCP gets a chance to see them.
Mike5p0	Posted - 2005.08.31 22:04:00 - [43] Bump
Jex Jast	Posted - 2005.08.31 23:41:00 - [44] Well let me see if I can cover all the points people might bring up. Hmm... Bounty hunters' jobs are to kill criminals to collect the bounty on their heads...so if someone has a bounty, they should be attackable without consequence, sec hit or otherwise. This leads to the problem of "reformed criminals", people who were evil but now do something else and seriously are trying to be good people. So I don't know what to do about that, because if we made bounties drop over time people would just get a huge bounty and wait it out, and we cant cater to both the speed needed to become legit and at the same time the slowness needed to prevent waiting it out. But anyawy... It's pretty clear that people who bounty hunt should not be taking sec hits, despite what some may say, but consider the role playing aspect - we may be doing it for money, but the role is that of a justice worker; an unofficial cop kind of. Sec status should not prevent people from entering space but should make them elgiible for a slug in the hull when the come in. As for the "suicide missions" and the people who would annihilate newbies, maybe the newbies should know not to attack the people in Apocalypses. I'm torn on the permit idea; I like that you could actually be official but I don't think you should pay ISK each month just to be able to kill criminals...but then again yes I do. So I guess I'd say you should have the permit system, and when you have a permit, you can kill ONLY people with bounties but you can kill them anywhere with either no sec hit or a sec gain, because let's face it they're different from NPC rats but they're still criminals, right? I don't know whether I actually accomplished anything there except to logically sort through what we had in this thread and summarize what I felt was best of all of it in one post. _____________________________________________ Kills: 0 Repeats: 0 Bounties Collected...you guessed it. Gotta get these numbers off the ground.
Lansfear	Posted - 2005.09.01 03:44:00 - [45] Edited by: Lansfear on 01/09/2005 03:44:52 Ha, damn Mike, nice bump. Doesn't look like anythings going to be revamped soonÖ. Oh well. Edit: forgot the Ö.
sonofollo	Posted - 2005.09.01 07:22:00 - [46] well a bounty system where a player can contract u out to kill another player without u incurring a sec hit in low sec and 0.0 space. The only other option at the moment involves killing big NPC rats and getting that sec rating back up.
spRAYed	Posted - 2005.09.01 08:47:00 - [47] Havent read any of the other post then the 1st...but i doubt its possible...how is "EvE" gonna figure out if a person is a pirate/bountyhunter....and pirating is made worse... Its pretty damn hard to get your Sec up these days without lvl 4 agent or doing a complex 100 times a day for the same amount of standing gain u'd normally get from a 750k rat...people are now either way, not pirate...or -10..
Kinsy	Posted - 2005.09.01 12:58:00 - [48] Edited by: Kinsy on 01/09/2005 13:03:12 Originally by: Avon Murder is murder. 'Pirate hunters' want to kill people for money. They are not interested in dealing out justice or helping the community, don't let them fool you. If they were killing for justice they wouldn't be worried about sec status - afterall, they wouldn't be blowing up anyone but outlaws, no matter what the bounty. If they are after the bounty then they can't expect to be treated any better than pirates - killing for isk. If anything they are WORSE than pirates - pirates want to take your stuff, they want to take your clone. What a complete bunch of utter twoddle. Have you ever done it? No? Didnt think so. Lets get back to the point. Whn was the last time anyone caught a pirates pod? Considering were talking about people who know how to PVP and can therefore get their pod out as soon as their ship goes down with relative ease. And don't give me that adapt line, your only chance is a fast locking inty (i.e. the first ship thats going down to a pirate because he know's why its there), a Large Smartbomb which can gimp your setup and relies on you getting close, or a good dollop of our old friend LAG. Not to mention the fact that usually your going to have to outnumber the pirate to catch him in the first place, and if anyone can read local and know theyre in trouble, its a pirate. Not that im saying all pirates are cowards, most of the pirates ive killed have been from organised honorable 1v1's. I haven't recieved a single bounty payment since i started playing from a pirate pod, yet have killed my fair share of ships. So where does the ISK come from? Loot? Assuming it survives and depending on the class of pirate, yes you can make some ISK this way, but if your solo or pair hunting which quite often you have to do in order to stop the pirate logging, safespotting or docking, you'll find yourself losing more than you gain. And the old chestnuts, security status and the abuse of alts...if your really commited, yea sure take the hit, I know I do and I like to apply my guns to the hauling inty alts too, thats why im -2.1 and have a bounty of my own to have to explain every time I try and tell people I'm a good guy. Still doesn't stop the fact that it sucks and it hasn't stopped the good guys from shooting me either! /rant off
Dionysus Davinci	Posted - 2005.09.01 16:00:00 - [49] Sorry, but Concord is slowly viewing you as a viglianty because you are attacking people that the law doesn't see as deserving of your 'justice'
Dionysus Davinci	Posted - 2005.09.01 16:05:00 - [50] Edited by: Dionysus Davinci on 01/09/2005 16:05:25 Originally by: Kinsy Not to mention the fact that usually your going to have to outnumber the pirate to catch him in the first place, I'm more likely to run and hide if outnumbered. Quote: I haven't recieved a single bounty payment since i started playing from a pirate pod, yet have killed my fair share of ships. So where does the ISK come from? Loot? Assuming it survives and depending on the class of pirate, yes you can make some ISK this way, but if your solo or pair hunting which quite often you have to do in order to stop the pirate logging, safespotting or docking, you'll find yourself losing more than you gain. You think piracy is much more of an isk maker? At least you got bounty on pods to look forward to AND sentry help. Quote: And the old chestnuts, security status and the abuse of alts...if your really commited, yea sure take the hit, I know I do and I like to apply my guns to the hauling inty alts too, thats why im -2.1 and have a bounty of my own to have to explain every time I try and tell people I'm a good guy. Still doesn't stop the fact that it sucks and it hasn't stopped the good guys from shooting me either! /rant off Again, you're a vigilianty and most people won't believe you anway after your corp declared on Stain alliance looking to pirate haulers.
Koda	Posted - 2005.09.01 16:17:00 - [51] Bounty hunting is, and has always been, a "cool" profession and utterly borked. In that respect it kind of sucks. However, most of the pirates I know are honorable about it, i.e. no bounties on themselves and no self podding just for a payday. But I'm sure it happens. Bounties aside, I have seen a new trend in the wake of the dual destroyer nerf: Low sec. gatecamps trolling for outlaws. It's logical to assume that the collective security rating of the player population will drop given the increased difficulty of repairing sec. status. You find players like myself who no longer give a toss about it and accept their red-flashiness. With low sec. empire ore actually giving decent minerals, there are more miners, and consquently more pirates gleefully trashing their access to Yulai. In this setting, I've witnessed low sec. empire corps. fed up with being ganked taking the law into their own hands. They realized that they can attack outlaws at gates with no risk of sentry guns or a sec. hit. The outlaw may have a bounty or he may not. But most pirates are going to have better loot than your average miner so there is some incentive to attack even without the bounty. Plus otherwise lawful players get a taste of Pvp without the sec hit. It's not strictly bounty hunting, but these outlaw fishing nets do give players an opportunity to dispense justice and maybe make a little money in the process. -------------- Share the love in the SNIGG Forums
Berak FalCheran	Posted - 2005.09.01 17:38:00 - [52] Edited by: Berak FalCheran on 01/09/2005 17:40:35 Oh 'pirate hunters', you hypocritical twits. The fact that you spend a lot of time killing NPCs to raise your sec, shouldnt have any impact on if you take a sec hit for killing other playes indiscriminately. Wait, isn't that what pirates do? So you're like the same as pirates? I see... Omg shock and surprise. BTW, it's called -5 security status. Concord has said that people are truly evil at -5 and below, so who are you to say it should be any negative sec. Jeez. Pillow Fights and Brownies OMG WTF YOU LOVE IT
Liu Kaskakka	Posted - 2005.09.01 17:39:00 - [53] Make naughty ppl stay flagged for a day or two but take away the sentry aggression unless you shoot in sight of them. No stupid waiting around in SS and hunters won't be penalized if the pie rat has been doing bad things recently.
Jex Jast	Posted - 2005.09.01 19:49:00 - [54] good call and Berak, we don't kill indiscriminately. we kill people who we will get paid to kill. or outlaws, depending on who you ask. me, I'll be killing anyone who ransoms/ganks. but miners and other non-pvpers are clearly not at risk with me. _____________________________________________ Kills: 0 Repeats: 0 Bounties Collected...you guessed it. Gotta get these numbers off the ground.
Berak FalCheran	Posted - 2005.09.01 21:35:00 - [55] Originally by: Jex Jast good call and Berak, we don't kill indiscriminately. we kill people who we will get paid to kill. or outlaws, depending on who you ask. me, I'll be killing anyone who ransoms/ganks. but miners and other non-pvpers are clearly not at risk with me. that's basically the problem. what makes you killing who you want to kill different from me killing people i want to kill? you can kill whoever you want, but there's no reason for you to not take as big of a sec hit, just because you fashion yourself as some sort of do-gooder by only killing people you consider 'bad'. that's rediculous. play by concords -5.0 (and pretty reasonable) rules, or accept the consequences of doing so, just like the rest of us. there are more than enough chances and situations for you to kill bad guys without a sec hit. i'm somewhat amiable to the idea of contract bounty hunting (i.e. declare war on one player) -- but aside from that, i dont think anybody should get less of a sec hit. note: i'm somewhat anti-pirate hunter. perhaps too much so, as the only ones i've met ingame are really obnoxious, self-righteous... and quick to die. yarr Pillow Fights and Brownies OMG WTF YOU LOVE IT
Kinsy	Posted - 2005.09.02 01:06:00 - [56] Originally by: Dionysus Davinci I'm more likely to run and hide if outnumbered. I try not to fight that way. Quote: You think piracy is much more of an isk maker? At least you got bounty on pods to look forward to AND sentry help. Pirates kill who they like. Including haulers full of Zyd. Anti pirates dont. Sentrys are more of a hinderance than help. Cant remember the last time i had to tank them. Quote: Again, you're a vigilianty and most people won't believe you anway after your corp declared on Stain alliance looking to pirate haulers. Bull****. First of all, i wasnt there at the time, so im not 100% on the details. Secondly you broke a NAP with ex members of FIX. FIX did nothing, which prompted the creation of Squirrels to do something about it. And we will suppress all forms of piracy, including your hauler alts. Deal with it, as we have to deal with your blobbing friends. Get back on topic please.
Scoundrelus	Posted - 2005.09.02 01:46:00 - [57] Yes this is a huge problem since it completely removes the role of the pirate hunter. You find a pirate... you jump on top of him and all you can do is say "BOO!" and hope he stops his evil ways. So what distinguishes the pirate from the pirate hunter? Nothing, they both get low sec and are probably both considered pirates on first sight. =============================================== I will punch you with my laser! -Scoundrelus
Famine Aligher'ri	Posted - 2005.09.02 01:51:00 - [58] There is no set "Class" holders in eve. This means that if you mine. You're not set somewhere in the code "Miner". There is only a few established maybe noted refrence to your trade in the system that is saved. One of them is you're "Security Status". Obviously the lower it is, the badder you are. The higher it is, the better you are. There is no way to establish who is a pirate or a hunter. Just like there is no way to establish who is a miner or a fighter. Some of you want it to be that way with just "Bounty Hunter". What about "Miners" too? The idea is cool and well noted to me however, it takes away from the main theme of EVE. The option to say your trade is THIS without it being hardcoded as THAT. -Famine Aligher'ri, of The Aligher'ri
Yith Solarius	Posted - 2005.09.04 10:54:00 - [59] heres an idea, when a corp is created how about you can assign the type of corp it is. So a pirate corp could declare that when he makes his corp it is a pirate one and gain a bonus e.g. 50% less chance of mods being destroyed on target ships destruction. This would allow bounty huntering corps to gain a bonus saying free to kill players marked as pirate corps but 30% increased sec hit on not pirate corp kills. You can branch this idea out into all fields, mining corps getting a yeald bonus, pvp corps getting damage bonus, manufacturing corps getting production bonuses etc. the other point i'll make is a link to a thread on the bounty system which I think is relevent and has some great ideas on improving the bounty system. bounty system *** check out my ideas for Concord logic
Dan Spitty	Posted - 2005.09.04 13:36:00 - [60] It seems like it's an old suggestion, bounty hunting licences/permit, single player war dec. If you're able to buy different "types" of licence it could work. I've always wondered why eve didn't have a quick and easy hi-sec duelling system and this could handle it. I've also read you used to be able to bribe concord agents. What were the prices back in the days it worked ? Some licence suggestions to cover some scenarios :) Duelists Licence Cheap. Lasts for a set time. Revoked on first ship destruction. Must be mutual. Doesn't cover pod-kills. Ideal for those minor disagreements without having to trek all the way to dodgy space. Assault Licence Cheap. Lasts for a set time. Isn't revoked on ship destruction. Must be mutual. Doesn't cover pod-kills. Ideal for some almost too-serious weapons testing, or a small group from two corps having a rumble without having to trek all the way to dodgy space. Destruction Licence Expensive. Lasts for a set time. Revoked on ship destruction. Not mutual. Target is informed. Doesn't cover pod-kills. Private Destruction Licence Very expensive version of the above but target is not informed. Kill Licence Very Expensive. Lasts for a set time. Revoked on pod-kill. Not mutual. Target is informed. Private Kill Licence Stupidly expensive version of the above but target is not informed. Concord sanction wars, could sanction a squabble ?

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