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RubyPorto
Sniggwaffe
YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2594
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Posted - 2013.02.08 06:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
Atomic Virulent wrote:Ok. some punk who pays his first $19.99. $20 for an Orca.. Who wouldn't have paid 10 times that to get the skill time back?
And what can he do with that Orca?
Can't boost. Can't mine. Can haul, but not that well.
This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
RubyPorto
Sniggwaffe
YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2627
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Posted - 2013.02.09 20:06:00 -
[2] - Quote
cheese monkey wrote:OP went about this post in the wrong way.
He has a point tho.
I used to be proud that I had 130m SP... after this patch that isnt going to mean much!
Freighter can be flown within a week of signing up! Capital ships only needing BS lvl 4?!
CCP please give us a ship that is massive esoteric then! I want a ship that needs all racial Cruiser, BC and BS to lvl 5!!
How do you get Advanced Spaceship Command 5 in a week?
You know, actually reading the devblog, while it could count as work, protects you from looking like a complete whining idiot.
This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
RubyPorto
Sniggwaffe
YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2644
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Posted - 2013.02.10 11:28:00 -
[3] - Quote
Mihnea Tepes wrote:The point is, that skilling costs time, time costs plex, plex costs money
so considering the fact, that Orca, which supposed to be capital ship, can be trained in two weeks, instead of 1 and half month ... itty5 is from almost one month to 33m ... and so on
in my eyes I lost lots of money and I am not ok with it
So... all of a sudden those skills you trained have no value?
In what way did you lose anything?
This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
RubyPorto
Sniggwaffe
YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2644
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Posted - 2013.02.10 12:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
Mihnea Tepes wrote:RubyPorto, point is that I could use this time to skill something other, this is a big thing ... lets say I wanted to have an orca just for hauling, cause boosting is provided by other players ... can you see the diference?
ability to fly capital ship in few weeks as they are planning it, thats just a fail
No, you couldn't have. Not if you want the Orca to haul at any time before May. Especially considering the Orca's role as a Hauler recently took a big heavy nerf bat to the balls.
I've got an alt that trained an Orca specifically for Corp Hangar hauling. I no longer own an Orca, as the mechanic I used to great effect while it was available is no longer available. I don't have any problem with it, because I understand the concept of Sunk Cost.
You Trained to gain the use of an Orca at the time your training completed, correct? You got the use of the Orca that you trained for from the time you completed training until now, correct? You will continue to have the use of the Orca that you trained for after may, correct?
What effect does a change in what other people have to train to fly an Orca starting in may have on you?
It's the Learning skill removal ISK refund whine all over again. :Cripes:
You can complain about it being a "Capital" ship all you want, but it really isn't one. Doesn't Require Capital Ships, can't fit capital modules, doesn't even require Advanced Spaceship Command. Nowhere in its description does it say that it is a Capital ship. It is an Industrial Command Ship. And what you call it is entirely irrelevant to the discussion of your inability to understand Sunk Costs.
This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
RubyPorto
Sniggwaffe
YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2644
|
Posted - 2013.02.10 12:21:00 -
[5] - Quote
Kate stark wrote:consider the following: a player trains minmatar industrial to IV or V to get ~27k m3 cargo space in a mammoth. a new player comes along and trains gallente industrial to I and gets >30k (iirc) cargo space.
that's probably why people are upset, to be blunt.
Consider the following:
That's probably why I no longer believe in the myth of the Literate EVE playerbase.
This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
RubyPorto
Sniggwaffe
YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2644
|
Posted - 2013.02.10 13:31:00 -
[6] - Quote
Mihnea Tepes wrote:system on its own was working, to be honest I can see no reason to change it ...
in that case there is no need for Itty1-4 (except of building t2 ships) and no, its wasting of my time, my skilling queue and irritating in general ... and ccp is trying to be populist to get more new players with flying ships fast
Except that it's not.
Who knows what they'll come up with for the itty 1-4.
They appear to be planning on changing them all.
You're inability to comprehend the concept of Sunk Costs is simply astounding. You wasted no time whatsoever, as you received the benefit (flying the ship) that you paid (training time) for. That other people will, in several months, pay less training time to fly a similar ship (remember, CCP seems to be planning on altering them) has no bearing on you.
This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
RubyPorto
Sniggwaffe
YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2644
|
Posted - 2013.02.10 13:57:00 -
[7] - Quote
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:But the point you fail miserably to understand is this is mining barge V. MINING BARGE V! Whenever I see that heresy on my character sheet I want to terminate the character. Dam CCP making me train such a disgraceful skill to get to an orca and then turning on us like this.
But the thing you fail miserably to understand is that that training is a Sunk Cost. It is entirely irrelevant to your future decisions. You trained it, and you received the benefit you trained to receive. Cost changes after the fact are irrelevant.
This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
RubyPorto
Sniggwaffe
YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2644
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Posted - 2013.02.10 14:13:00 -
[8] - Quote
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Rebecha Pucontis wrote:But the point you fail miserably to understand is this is mining barge V. MINING BARGE V! Whenever I see that heresy on my character sheet I want to terminate the character. Dam CCP making me train such a disgraceful skill to get to an orca and then turning on us like this. But the thing you fail miserably to understand is that that training is a Sunk Cost. It is entirely irrelevant to your future decisions. You trained it, and you received the benefit you trained to receive. Cost changes after the fact are irrelevant. That argument can be used in many situations. For instance if you bought a car from a dealer for 10k and then a week later they dropped the price to 5k then you would be lying if you say you were happy. So the sunk cost argument is entirely dependent on the situations and cannot be applied in a blanket approach as you seem to be trying.
If you were happy to get the car at 10k and you can't return it for 10k, then the fact that the price has later dropped is irrelevant.
If you cannot get it back, it is sunk, and you will only succeed in causing yourself grief by pretending otherwise.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_costs
It's not an argument, and ignoring it is generally referred to as the "Sunk Cost Fallacy."
This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
RubyPorto
Sniggwaffe
YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2644
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Posted - 2013.02.10 14:19:00 -
[9] - Quote
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:NEONOVUS wrote:It would be interesting if CCP gave the option after such a massive reskill as this, to rebuild your character at a cost of say 10%sp.
Say there was a minor glitch with the fluid router but we got you back, mostly.
Could even spin as part of the increased sleeper tech usage reacting badly with the Jovian derived bits.
Actually that would be a glorious way of also explaing the tech 3 nerf that will be coming.
The Sleeper tech had to be purged/downgraded lest it destroy you, much like the new anti eject option. Exactly. This is all about customer service. Using the example above if you paid 10k for a car and then the car was reduced to 5k a week later then you would expect it fair and good customer service for the the dealer to refund you 5k or at least a portion of the difference. It's just good customer service and I hope CCP consider something like this.
Sure. That's why CCP refunded Drone skills to Supercap pilots, Cruise Missile skills to Stealth bomber pilots, and so on. Oh, wait...
You can still Fly mining Barges, so the Mining barge skill still provides its benefit.
Go ahead. Next time you buy something that goes on sale later, try to get them to refund the difference. They'll laugh you out of the store unless they have one of those future price guarantee things (which are always advertised in advance).
Especially months or years later.
This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
RubyPorto
Sniggwaffe
YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2644
|
Posted - 2013.02.10 14:21:00 -
[10] - Quote
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:Hahah. Ok for a start using Wikipedia to base what is right and wrong is laughable at best. Academic and psychological mumbo jumbo aside, this comes down to good customer service. Using the car example, if you went back to the dealer a week later and complained the car has been reduced half price then yes, the dealer could say tough luck and give you some sunk cost BS and link you a wikipedia article, but then you'd probably never go back to that dealer again.
I'm using the Wikipedia article because it's pretty clear that you have no idea what Sunk Costs actually are, and I'm hoping that you're literate enough to realize that the link is a suggestion to realize that you might want to read the article so you can learn.
Oh well...
This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
RubyPorto
Sniggwaffe
YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2645
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Posted - 2013.02.10 14:28:00 -
[11] - Quote
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:Plenty of places will offer you some reimbursement if the price suddenly changes recently after you've bought it. You must be buying from some crappy shops. Ive even had Amazon refund me the difference before when they dropped the price on a pre order I made. They didn't make any fuss or some give me BS which is why it is the largest online retailer.
So Amazon, in accordance with a policy that they advertise when you sign a pre-order, dropped the price of something that you pre-ordered before you received the item.
Thus, you argue, CCP, in direct contradiction to their stated and previously executed policy, should return SP that you spent and have received the benefit for months or years after you spent the SP and recieved the benefit.
Is that about the size of it?
Again, show me a car dealer that will give me 5 grand because my car is is on sale 6 months after I bought it. Hell, show me a car dealer that will give me the difference between my purchase price and their Christmas sale price if I buy the car the day before the Christmas sale starts.
This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
RubyPorto
Sniggwaffe
YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2646
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Posted - 2013.02.10 14:47:00 -
[12] - Quote
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:I don't know where in the world you are from. But here in the UK we actually do have a number of shops who will reimburse you the difference if the price drops within a month of buying. Particuarly using your example of around christmas, many shops will advertise that they will reimburse any difference if the price drops in sale. Also many shops will reimburse you the price if you find the product cheaper in a shop elsewhere within a month of purchase. This is pretty standard practice here in the UK.
And those are all policies that they advertise, correct?
Name for me a Car Dealer, which I can call up, and ask if they will give me 5 grand because a Car I bought dropped in price by 5 grand after I bought it.
Name for me a company which will refund the difference in prices months or years after I bought something?
The Orca has been around since November 2008. You are asking for a refund on a 4 year old product while it is still in working order and you can still use it simply because it got cheaper.
This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
RubyPorto
Sniggwaffe
YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2646
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Posted - 2013.02.10 14:52:00 -
[13] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:RubyPorto wrote:You are asking for a refund on a 4 year old product while it is still in working order and you can still use it simply because it got cheaper. They're also asking for a refund on something they don't even own.
To be fair, they're also not asking to actually receive anything when they get the things they don't own refunded.
This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
RubyPorto
Sniggwaffe
YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2647
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 01:22:00 -
[14] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:SoOza N'GasZ wrote:
that kinda thinking i reckon allowed **** like na*zi germany to happen ^^
Actually, you're looking for 'The Holocaust' rather than **** germany. (really? **** is covered by the profanity filter?) The rise of the National Socialist party, to a large degree, was caused by the post war reparations that were forced on Germany after World War 1.
Well, that and the collapse of the system by which the US lent Germany money so that Germany could pay reparations to France and Britain, who could then use that money to repay loans the US had given them during WWI.
Black Thursday caused WWII*.
*Not a real claim.
This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
RubyPorto
Sniggwaffe
YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2652
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 04:24:00 -
[15] - Quote
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:You sound angry, you better sit back down in your chair and take some deep breaths before you give yourself a heart attack. lol Just because you are clearly now losing the argument you resort to this behaviour.
Oh you.
This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
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