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Hi sec PI worth it ?

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Carniflex StarHunt 30	Posted - 2013.02.08 11:05:00 - [1] - Quote I have simple question - is it worth doing PI in hi sec ? I did it a long while ago in null sec, where it was kind of ok passive income as long as you did at least Tier 2 (bcos of the bulk of materials involved). I was away from a game a little while and have never done PI in hi sec, so is it worth it, considering the taxses and crappy yields ? "Worth it" meaning against the alternative ways to pass my time, stuff like doing missions / incursions for the same duration which the cliky-clicky and hauling would take me. I have altogehter 12 PI capable characters (skills at lev 4) with colonies stuck in (now hostile) null sec system. I'm not particularly thrilled about running my evil slave minining colony and terrorizing em with .. well .. dots and lines ... but if the isk/h is ok enough I will do it.
Sugar Bunny InSpace Toward the Terra 2	Posted - 2013.02.08 11:27:00 - [2] - Quote Remember what ISK you got in null? Now divide that by 3 and that will be your ISK income for the same work you did back in Null.
Carniflex StarHunt 30	Posted - 2013.02.08 11:44:00 - [3] - Quote Sugar Bunny InSpace wrote: Remember what ISK you got in null? Now divide that by 3 and that will be your ISK income for the same work you did back in Null. To be honest I dont remember what I was getting in null exactly. I remember that it was decent enough to cover the JF fuel costs, but the market and PI itself has changed substantially since then. Now the POCO's are player owned and there are these moving hotspots and as such I have no idea atm what amount of cliky-clicky is involved in running the PI setup atm. I have heard people mention something relatively low isk wise, about ~30 mil a week after taxses and sales tax with 5 planets but I do not know what amount of clicking time is involved for arriving at that number. Is it 5 minutes per week it takes to haul that stuff - or is it an hour of scanning and hunting for the best spots with some silly short cyckles - I do not know - as I am not currently involved in PI.
Sugar Bunny InSpace Toward the Terra 2	Posted - 2013.02.08 14:16:00 - [4] - Quote 400 mil - about 10-15 min maintenance per day Hauling in HiSec shouldn't be a problem
Moryg H'qarr The Silver Flame 2	Posted - 2013.02.08 15:01:00 - [5] - Quote Extraction in highsec = very low income, not sure about the amount of clicking as it is not worth it imo Refining in highsec = can be decent or even high income, amount of clicking depends on how much ISK you want out of it per week, prices tend to rise and fall like a yo-yo, so it's not the most stable market.
Vincent Athena V.I.C.E. 1584	Posted - 2013.02.08 16:59:00 - [6] - Quote When Ive had PI set up in high sec I made P2 items with 3 day cycles. One "string" of factories. The income was on the order of 1 million per day per planet. So if you got 6 planets per alt, 3 alts, that's 540 million a month, about a PLEX. You only need visit the customs offices about once a month. You just do not get sufficient P2 to make more frequent visits necessary. (That's the advantage of doing P2. P1 planets can make you more ISK, but require more hauling.) The extractors do need to be adjusted every 3 days (or twice a week if you want to keep a weekly schedule). But that can be done while you are mining or traveling. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/
Styth spiting Ion Corp. NightSong Directorate 281	Posted - 2013.02.08 18:27:00 - [7] - Quote Use the search function and sort by my user name. I've posted dozens comments on this topic and have posted quite a few pages of data, setups etc. The short answer is yes, it can be very profitable, you just need to know how to make it profitable. Is it more profitable then null/low/wh? In some ways yes it is (when considering risk, hauling time, ability to sell, choices of planets, etc). Long answer is read my previous posts :) I'm on my way to work heh.
Eric Raeder No Fee Too High 24	Posted - 2013.02.09 14:34:00 - [8] - Quote You can make ISK doing PI in highsec, but why? There are plenty of half deserted areas in lowsec where you can easily make twice as much. There are no warp bubbles in lowsec, hauling is almost completely safe with a little practice. Nullsec is a bigger hassle getting product to market. Most if not all null to low edge systems are permacamped and far more dangerous to travel through.
Katran Luftschreck Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps 849	Posted - 2013.02.09 15:22:00 - [9] - Quote Sugar Bunny InSpace wrote: Remember what ISK you got in null? Now divide that by 3 and that will be your ISK income for the same work you did back in Null. Define "work" Now if you're in a nullsec alliance - and you are, because otherwise you wouldn't be in nullsec in the first place, then the safety issues of hauling PI stuff around in nullsec are invalidated. So go for it. But if you're not in a nullsec alliance then your chances of ever actually getting your PI stuff back to hisec trade hubs is pretty much nill unless you've got Red Frog kind of mojo when it comes to moving stuff around. Since even a small profit is better than no profit at all, hisec PI is still the better option for many. EvE Forum Bingo
Vaerah Vahrokha Vahrokh Consulting 3791	Posted - 2013.02.10 00:07:00 - [10] - Quote I recall I could make from 22 to 46M per hour with hi sec PI. Not too shabby. Auditing \| Collateral holding and insurance \| Consulting \| PLEX for Good Charity Twitter channel

Lord Battlestar CALIMA COLLABORATIVE Atrox Urbanis Respublique Abundatia 22	Posted - 2013.02.10 02:20:00 - [11] - Quote Depends heavily on what you are making too, some stuff its more profitable than others. Oxygen for awhile I could make easy profit from with little work, because of its abundance in gas planets. I once podded myself by blowing a huge fart.
Carniflex StarHunt 30	Posted - 2013.02.10 12:06:00 - [12] - Quote Thanx for the info. So it seems some isk can be made in hi sec PI, but its mostly reprocessing T2 upwards. What about Wormholes ? Anyone has done some decent C1 just for the PI ? How often are the towers in C1's attacked if someone can comment from the experience. Say a large tower with some hardeners and some ECM without anything juicy hanging in there in the open ? Eric Raeder wrote: Nullsec is a bigger hassle getting product to market. Most if not all null to low edge systems are permacamped and far more dangerous to travel through. I dont like low sec tbh. If I'm already sticking my neck out I just skip the zoo and beeline for null, as its both more profitable and safer in my experience. Hauling is not an issue for me, as I have JF, Black Ops and covert cyno alts and with the increased bridge range of Black Ops I will expect them to be more viable as poor mans titan for pushing blocade runners around if needed. Problem with low sec / null is POCO's - I dont have the firepower to hold one if local alliance decides that he needs to control it and deny me the right to use it. Sure I can do the daily harassing runs with bombers, but thats not particularly profitable way of spending my time. Anyway - thanx again for the info guys and gals. I'll have to look a bit more into this.
Sugar Bunny InSpace Toward the Terra 2	Posted - 2013.02.10 14:12:00 - [13] - Quote About WHs. In a Class 1. With 2 accounts(6 chars, 36 Planets) and an efficient, little maintenance setup you should get anywhere from 3-6 bill ISK/month. But if you put some daily effort in it then it should be above 6 bill.
Shou Kaukonen Sexy Pirate Club Some Say 56	Posted - 2013.02.10 20:20:00 - [14] - Quote I'm sure you know that PI is the sort of activity where you get out what you put in - and this is more true for extraction worlds than factory worlds, as your output tends to be directly influenced by how willing you are to touch your extractors on a regular basis. And, of course, many people assume that having multiple alts and adjusting all of your characters' extractors daily is the default way to do things. So, when someone says they make 2 bil a month or what have you, they could really be talking 200 mil a month * 10 characters, with the many hours a week of PI work that would entail. This is part of why I prefer high-sec production, rather than low or null extraction. I do PI on one alt character with all PI skills at 4 - so 5 worlds, each designed to take a mess of p1 and turn it into p4. My worlds are near a trade hub, making it practical to move my goods by contract (eliminates a lot of hauling, and the risk of suicide ganking), and since easy access to p1 allows me to permarun them, my setup reliably spits out 5 units of p4 every hour, and every 2 days I need to spend about 20 minutes hauling more p1 to my worlds, and p4 back to station. Granted I also need to spend some time making contracts and buying new p1 at the hub every so often, but this is pretty negligible - about 20 minutes every 6+ days. This setup nets me around 1 bil a month, for a lot less grind than PI usually entails. In fact, I once had a wormhole dweller tell me that they made less on wormhole extraction than I was making on highsec production, in a c3. Of course, take this with a grain of salt, as this person may simply have not been being as absolutely hardcore as they could have been, and there's nothing wrong with that. Remember, at the end of the day isk/hr is a less important metric than fun/(isk/hr). Basically, if you've got null connections and you believe that you can reliable sell PI extracted there (or can make friends with a freighter pilot who will move it to highsec for you) then you will probably make a tidy profit out there. Personally, I find mucking around with extractors horribly tedious and hope to never again bother with that aspect of PI, but it does have the bonus of actually being able to make more money by putting in more time. Highsec factory setups tend to have a more favorable effort/isk ratio (though they are a bigger pain to set up), but there is a firmer ceiling on how much money a given setup will make - screwing with extractors can get you more yield, but factories don't care how often you look at them.
zatazon East India Ore Trade The East India Co. 37	Posted - 2013.02.11 02:07:00 - [15] - Quote Yes it is worth it if you plan on staying in an area for a while. I am currently working on training up my alts for more planets. High sec PI isnt a great way to make isk but I go pick up the P2 items every couple of weeks and keep throwing my planets on a 3-5 day cycle. with 1 toon with 4 planets I make roughly 55mil isk every 2 ish weeks. So for spending maybe a total of 15 minutes over 2 ish weeks for 55mil... you tell me if it is worth it. I am not making the best items or anything either just what is easy and I can sell fairly quick.
Ralinastrife Lost Dawn Chaos Stealth Syndicate 17	Posted - 2013.02.11 03:59:00 - [16] - Quote Over time you make pretty good money I mean hey all you doing is a few clicks once per day right lol. I think last month i made about 120 mil off of PI and thats doing it very casually...sometimes i would forget to etc. i usually mine and have my PI stuff in same system. to me any money is good.
Annunaki soldier Segmentum Solar Nulli Legio 66	Posted - 2013.02.11 08:33:00 - [17] - Quote pi on high sec is not worth it if you do extraction . Factories are your friends and hauling - buy orders. Give yourself a month and advertise you buy orders for the locals. Many will just change their lines for not hauling at all. Then take that p0 - p1 and advance it. With 10% tax you will still reach a good amount of money per toon. Ride hard, live with passion-á
Dex Thunakar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering 13	Posted - 2013.02.11 09:58:00 - [18] - Quote Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: I recall I could make from 22 to 46M per hour with hi sec PI. Not too shabby. impossible unless you're using alot of alts...
Styth spiting Ion Corp. NightSong Directorate 283	Posted - 2013.02.11 18:24:00 - [19] - Quote Dex Thunakar wrote: Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: I recall I could make from 22 to 46M per hour with hi sec PI. Not too shabby. impossible unless you're using alot of alts... It's absolutely possible, it simply depends on what "type" of PI you are doing. If you're simply buying up PI mats and doing factory planets the isk/day is still great. If you extract your own mats and manufacture with them it's even better, but it becomes far more difficult to determine how much isk/day you are making so you have to base how much isk you make per week or month. Perfect example of extracting mats and running factory planets, Large control towers. Caldari Control Tower Large ........Required....... P1 value ........... Taxes 8 - Capital Construction Parts ......... 8 ........... 71,152,000.00 18 - Broadcast Node ........................18 ........... 11,070,720.00 .... 5,022,000.00 32 - Integrity Response Drones .... 32 ........... 19,627,840.00 .. 11,232,000.00 26 - Nano-Factory ..............................26 ............. 8,076,900.00 .... 6,318,000.00 28 - Organic Mortar Applicators ..... 28 ........... 10,543,960.00 .... 6,804,000.00 18 - Recursive Computing Module 18 ............. 5,018,580.00 .... 5,022,000.00 18 - Self-Harmonizing Power Core 18 .......... 11,966,400.00 .... 5,022,000.00 28 - Sterile Conduits ........................ 28 ............ 5,114,200.00 .... 6,804,000.00 12 - Wetware Mainframe ................. 12 ............ 5,171,640.00 .... 4,068,000.00 ............................................................................. 147,742,240.00 .. 50,292,000.00 Tower sells for around 300m Isk so you're looking at a profit of 101,965,760isk/day. And with buying mats you are looking at a lower profit per day but it is still around 50m isk/day last time I checked. It's all about HOW you make profit from PI. You can make good passive isk, better isk the more time you invest, or great isk if you invest more characters and time into it. I make anywhere from 450m isk/day to 250m isk/day based on how much time per-week I care to invest into it. Just like everything else in the game invest more isk, time and research and you'll make more.
Bugsy VanHalen Society of lost Souls 455	Posted - 2013.02.12 14:53:00 - [20] - Quote I make 100M per week off high sec PI. If you want to know how do a forum search. There are many very detailed posts.

Carniflex StarHunt 34	Posted - 2013.02.12 15:33:00 - [21] - Quote Bugsy VanHalen wrote: I make 100M per week off high sec PI. If you want to know how do a forum search. There are many very detailed posts. Well if that 100 m is any good depends on how much time you spend for getting that :) As far as I can see based on the answers in this thread and running a single test planet in sec 0.5 extracting and doing tier 2 the PI in hi sec is questionable undertaking unless you are willing to go through the trouble of running reactions. I think I'm not tempted for now but I'll keep an open mind and should I encounter any new information giving me a reason to doubt then I'll reevaluate the situation. Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.
Carniflex StarHunt 34	Posted - 2013.02.19 09:37:00 - [22] - Quote I have concluded that hi sec PI if you are extracting and reacting on spot is not worth it. To reach that conclusion I dropped few colonies on a barren planet in sec 0.5 and couple on a barren planet in NPC 0.0 - the yield differences are quite large. In null sec the yields are approx 5 times greater and that is with 8x extractor heads in hi sec vs 4x extractor heads in null (allowing you to use more factories or a extra storage facility). The number of clicks is basically the same and with some brains and patience the null sec is not really more dangerous than hi sec in my opinion in this age of jump drives. Well - ok in NPC null it can take a little while for finding that clear moment for making the run to poco in your trusty bestower, but when doing it up to tier 2 it does not need to happen so frequently. Making it tier 2 means that you turn 30.4 m3 of tier 1 into 7.5 m3 of tier 2 per hour. Launchpad size is 10 000 - so you would need to haul every ~1333 hours if only tier 2 from a single plant goes into that. That is once every 55 days. If I remember correct then compression ratio was no longer than nice when going from Tier 2 -> Tier 3 That was on alt with all level 4 skills. So getting Tier 3 on a single planet would mean a bit too much micromanegement and optimizing the yields to not overload anything. Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.
Kaivar Lancer Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation 245	Posted - 2013.02.20 04:28:00 - [23] - Quote Meh. I make 700m-1b per month. That's with 3 PI characters in hi sec.
Carniflex StarHunt 34	Posted - 2013.02.20 07:52:00 - [24] - Quote Kaivar Lancer wrote: Meh. I make 700m-1b per month. That's with 3 PI characters in hi sec. I have to assume that this is with running reactions, as I dont see that kind of isk possibility when extracting in hi sec. Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.


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