| Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Jash Illian
   |
Posted - 2003.07.17 08:20:00 -
[31]
<< I have 4x 650mm medium 'scouts' fitted, 2 launchers with defenders (heavy & cruiser still suck to my opinion, most are shot down, and take way to long to get there)
2 Lif afterburners, 1x Neutron Shield booster
4 x (advanced) Gyrostabilizers 1
I do 100 damage at 15-20 km, often 120 damage, wrecking damage of 360.
this is all after the latest patch.
I can take on 1 maurader and 3 predators (40k & 30k) at once, with constant respawn.
Projectiles are still good.
Ghenghiz >>
I have 2 650mm Medium Carbine Howitzers loaded along with a plain 250mm Railgun. 1 FM-Z Weapon Inertial Suspensor (1.06x dam + 6% RoF) and 1 Cross Lateral Gyrostabilizer (1.077x dam + 8.8% RoF). Surgical Strike lvl 3, Sharpshooter lvl 3, Med Projectile lvl 3 and Med Hybrid lvl 2
The 650mm are doing 100s around 9km, with wreckings floating anywhere between 130 and 260.
While the 650mm are doing 100s, the 250mm had been doing 50s 7km back, with wreckings around 100. Firing almost twice as often. With Hybrid Weapon 2 and nothing to assist damage.
Is there a problem here?
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Deb Dukar
|
Posted - 2003.07.17 08:23:00 -
[32]
@lord zap
jep but my old scouts lad far more hits then the standard artys. with em i was able to solo a bunch of cruisers, without em i can barely kill 1.
PS: maybe u wanna gimme my scouts back? u podded me a few days ago :P ;)
-------------------------
got a problem with my typos? then go to ur mom and start crying :P |
Tyr Bowman
|
Posted - 2003.07.17 08:45:00 -
[33]
I apologise if this has already been said, cos i dident read all the posts, but i think that the heavy artillery will come into play more during corp wars vs. big slow moving/non moving targets such as stations and titans.
650mm... think how enourmous those shells are, and then think about how truely massive the cannons you need to fire them are going to be. You cant really expect that amount of metal to swivel and pitch fast enough to accurately track a frigate can you???
|
Endyl
|
Posted - 2003.07.17 09:03:00 -
[34]
I think maybe some bonusses should be added to Minmatar ships to make the projectiles more effective (close to hybrid) when installed on them, but ONLY ON MINMATAR SHIPS ! because those ships pay in other areas for it.
But for all others races, projectiles weapons should mainly be only used on electronic warfare or plain defensive config.
IMHO actualy projectile weapons are ballanced, it's only Minmatar ships that may need some more love.
Edited by: Endyl on 17/07/2003 09:04:25
|
Deb Dukar
|
Posted - 2003.07.17 09:05:00 -
[35]
thats why the opt range is sso low. but wheres the connection between a turret speed and the bullet size?
a 250mm hybrid is as big as a 650mm (more technical stuff) and faster too
-------------------------
got a problem with my typos? then go to ur mom and start crying :P |
Arondos
|
Posted - 2003.07.17 09:06:00 -
[36]
OK so if it can't track and swivel to track a frigate then give it some decent range.
650mm scout artillery with zero range mod ammo, L4 sharpshooter, L3 traj analysis has a 10.8k optimal range? 28k falloff but if you get beyond about 20k range you may as well just eject ammo. The drop off once you are passed nominal is to extreme. Either the optimal range needs to be raised or the damage and misses need to drop less drastically one you are passed nominal.
I took a Small laser (medium anode particle stream I) with no crystal in it 9660m optimal range, put a radio frq cystal on it and it has more optimal range than the artillery, fires faster and does about half the damage. This with L2 small energy turret skill...vs L4 medium proj turret. I hate to imagine a medium turret with L4 skill.
Edited by: Arondos on 17/07/2003 09:07:18
Life isn't fair and neither is Eve. Get over it. |
Jash Illian
|
Posted - 2003.07.17 09:12:00 -
[37]
For those people talking about tracking a frigate:
Who said I was referring to a frigate? Those results are against Angel Depredators and Marauders. Cruisers. Coming at me in a straight line. And me not moving. :P
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Tyr Bowman
|
Posted - 2003.07.17 09:15:00 -
[38]
Each weapon has its own downfall. If you dont like the downfalls of the artillery, then simply dont use them. Find somthing else like beam cannons or rail guns.
I'm pretty confident that the large artillery cannons will find their usage during corp wars over stations, much like torpedos. In the meantime use somthing else.
|
Tyr Bowman
|
Posted - 2003.07.17 09:21:00 -
[39]
I agree that the artillery should have a longer range though, especially the howitzers seeing as the shells are supposedly rocket assisted.
|
Deb Dukar
|
Posted - 2003.07.17 09:22:00 -
[40]
ok tyr, so u mean if they nerf hybrid next patch, every1 shoudl use lasers then?
Edited by: Deb Dukar on 17/07/2003 09:27:08
-------------------------
got a problem with my typos? then go to ur mom and start crying :P |
Jash Illian
|
Posted - 2003.07.17 09:26:00 -
[41]
<< Each weapon has its own downfall. If you dont like the downfalls of the artillery, then simply dont use them. Find somthing else like beam cannons or rail guns.
I'm pretty confident that the large artillery cannons will find their usage during corp wars over stations, much like torpedos. In the meantime use somthing else. >>
Tyr, do you use projectiles at all? I doubt it very seriously because you'd know that the results with something like the 720mm are worse. With skills and mods I can bring the RoF down to 18s from 30s. But it barely taps targets anywhere beyod the 25km point.
With that RoF and abysmal damage, the 250mm Railgun user has already hit you 3 times at least for equal or better damage. Nevermind at that range, orbitting will throw the aim of the 720 off so badly you're not going to hit anything. The really long range projectiles, like the 280mm for frigates and 720mm for cruisers, have ALWAYS sucked eggs since beta and were considered more joke than weapon.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Tyr Bowman
|
Posted - 2003.07.17 09:33:00 -
[42]
Depends on if you think you could live with the nerf. If you cant adapt to changes in the game system, then your probably playing the wrong type of game...
|
Tyr Bowman
|
Posted - 2003.07.17 09:36:00 -
[43]
Jash: no i dont use projectiles.. I use a combination of hybrids and lasers, at least for now. :P
|
Deb Dukar
|
Posted - 2003.07.17 09:57:00 -
[44]
do u realy thin that ignoring a problem will help u or us?
if they "balance" hybrids and double cap costs of lasers, what r u going to use then?
-------------------------
got a problem with my typos? then go to ur mom and start crying :P |
Tyr Bowman
|
Posted - 2003.07.17 10:07:00 -
[45]
I never said we should ignore the problem, just learn to live with it while CCP finds a way to balence the weapons out. There have been other threads stating how screwed up artillery is at the moment, plus i'm pretty sure people have been petitioning like mad about the problem, and i'm sure CCP are working on it. Whinging at them about a problem they are already aware of isent going to make them fix it any faster.
|
Lutetia
|
Posted - 2003.07.17 10:18:00 -
[46]
ôDepends on if you think you could live with the nerf. If you cant adapt to changes in the game system, then your probably playing the wrong type of game.ö
Honestly, Tyr. I bet, most of use are onlineplayer since several years. IÆve played online since 1997, and I still have toons in Everquest. Who canÆt remember the debates about class-specific nerfs i.e. for Druids or Necros? You can read such comments all over the boards to every single onlinegame. But this will not help. Neither the developers nor the customers.
I for myself try only (in my bad english) to say, what my experiences are. Its human nature to speak more about bad experience than about good one.
It is simple to say: If projectile donÆt statisfy, use other stuff! The Minmatar-ships should use projectiles as it was planned by the devs from the beginning. So we simply try to tell the devs, there is no balance with a Rupture, Stabber or else.
It is to simple too, if one says those big guns become propper in a corpwar. The pilots of those minmatar-ships wonÆt park them in the hangars and go for Thorax, Blackbird or else until a corpwar comes up. They want fun with their original ships and the setup this ships should have.
Therefore we speak about some needed changes in the near future. There is no reason to talk about whiners (no you Tyr, but others in other threats) or people in wrong games, please.
|
Tyr Bowman
|
Posted - 2003.07.17 10:24:00 -
[47]
posted by Lutetia:
"Honestly, Tyr. I bet, most of use are onlineplayer since several years. I’ve played online since 1997, and I still have toons in Everquest. Who can’t remember the debates about class-specific nerfs i.e. for Druids or Necros? You can read such comments all over the boards to every single onlinegame. But this will not help. Neither the developers nor the customers.
I for myself try only (in my bad english) to say, what my experiences are. Its human nature to speak more about bad experience than about good one.
It is simple to say: If projectile don’t statisfy, use other stuff! The Minmatar-ships should use projectiles as it was planned by the devs from the beginning. So we simply try to tell the devs, there is no balance with a Rupture, Stabber or else.
It is to simple too, if one says those big guns become propper in a corpwar. The pilots of those minmatar-ships won’t park them in the hangars and go for Thorax, Blackbird or else until a corpwar comes up. They want fun with their original ships and the setup this ships should have.
Therefore we speak about some needed changes in the near future. There is no reason to talk about whiners (no you Tyr, but others in other threats) or people in wrong games, please."
----------
I stand most humbly corrected...
I guess i shouldent talk about things that I havent experienced first hand... thanks for putting me in my place.
|
Endyl
|
Posted - 2003.07.17 10:27:00 -
[48]
>Who canÆt remember the debates about class-
>specific nerfs i.e. for Druids or Necros? You
>can read such comments all over the boards to
>every single onlinegame.
Ooooh yeah I was a very active member of the "Nerf the Treehuggers to oblivion club". :P
|
Benedic
|
Posted - 2003.07.17 10:53:00 -
[49]
Burn the Earth-Witch Infidels!(<=Ex EQ cleric)
=P
|
Deb Dukar
|
Posted - 2003.07.17 11:04:00 -
[50]
"fear my lockpick!" <- 1.5 years of fixerlive in AO :)
we whined about 1 year and then we finaly got fixed hehe.
same tactic should work here too *g
-------------------------
got a problem with my typos? then go to ur mom and start crying :P |
drunkenmaster
|
Posted - 2003.07.17 11:12:00 -
[51]
I think the difference is being taken out of context. You have to look at the whole picture, from a number of angles.
I think we are very close to balance, any further changes will be very small, and in some cases nearly unnoticable.
if you give the proj *too* much tracking speed, BANG! they're better than the hybrids. Cue about 1,000 posts about hybrids being nerfed, pink bats being thrown around, and all the other crap that comes with it.
from my experiences, I will generally only take opinions from people who I know have put in the effort. This would be Morkt and Hippey, and most of m0o. (whether you like them or not, you have to admit that they know their loadouts)
The main thing I see in this thread is people using the weapons in the wrong situations. Most of the similarly matched guns will do the same amount of damage if given the optimum conditions (distance/target/ammo)
And noone in this thread has mentioned the ammo types they are using either, and that honestly makes more difference than the gun type in most cases.
Please include this data with your gripes, maybe someone will see a possible problem in your setups.
Just for the record, I use 2x250coils (M) 1x150coil (S) because that's all I can fit*
I load the 250's with thorium M which, with all my skills (all gunnery at at least lvl3, except traj anal**) and bonuses taken into account give me a range of about 25km, but do very little damage, normally <70.
PS. I'm aware there are tracking speed issues with a number of guns, mainly projectile ones, but the fixes should be minimal, and should, at most, give fractionally better tracking than hybrids of a similar size.
* Vexor, not enough cap to even run 3 250's.
** hahaha, I said anal.
Edited by: drunkenmaster on 17/07/2003 11:17:11
.
|
drunkenmaster
|
Posted - 2003.07.17 11:18:00 -
[52]
also, they don't need to 'nerf' anything.
They should just 'buff' a couple of items instead.
Match the highest common denominator, not the lowest.
.
|
Temerlyn
|
Posted - 2003.07.17 11:21:00 -
[53]
Albiet i didnt read all the posts, but i have gone for a close assult set up with 4 ac's.
This requires quite alot less power core to mount, i can use emp ammo and when i am real close they always hit. Every hit doing 20-30 damage per second. I hit fast i hit hard and i dont use any cap doing it.
|
Saladin
|
Posted - 2003.07.17 11:22:00 -
[54]
I think my single biggest problem with the projectile nerf is the ammo capacity. I found myself having to reload too frequently for it to be practical for me. Now keep in mind I didn't have or use any of those scouts that carried a zillion rounds before the patch, but I thought the pre-patch capacity of 40 rounds was nice for the 650 arty. 20 rounds I think is too low.
Well I wouldn't say to that starting to use hybrids would make your minmatar ships useless. You just have to adjust your skill set (get those energy related skills that weren't needed before) and tweak the setup a bit. Granted you are not getting as much out of the hybrids as you would in a gallente cruiser (+5% hybrid damage per level) or a caldari cruiser (+5% hybrid range per level) but its still good enough for npc's. But I do know that a lot of people stayed with projectiles, and those that did can kill pirates much faster than those with hybrids. I think the main problem is that a lot of people are still sticking to the EMP ammo exclusively. They need to mix things up a bit, check the ammo types out there and check their range penalties. See what suits you best, but it will likely be a mix as opposed to one single type.
I did read somewhere (i think it was the patch review board) that minmatar ships will be getting a boost sometime in the future. I believe the dev said that they realized that minmatar ships were not as fast and as aggresive as they should be and that this will be fixed in the future, but didn't say when. |
Lord Zap
|
Posted - 2003.07.17 11:31:00 -
[55]
"IMHO actualy projectile weapons are ballanced, it's only Minmatar ships that may need some more love."
- I defy anyone who has actually had the experience of firing large projectile artillery such as the 800mm and 1200mm to say they are balanced. Even when at optimal range with stationary or very slow moving cruisers/battleships the amount of hits is worrying. Sure they use no cap but what is the point if you cannot hit anything and they fire every 15 seconds! Please go on the test server and get a tempest with large artilley, take it outside and try killing some pirates, then come back and tell us theyre balanced. zzzZap
|
3859
|
Posted - 2003.07.17 11:33:00 -
[56]
Ah, this is funny.
Before the patch ppl were shouting about Hybrids being crap, and all the projectile users were saying 'get over it' I own you with my dual 425's
Now Hybrids are better than Projectiles, the 'get over it's' are complaining.
:) lol makes me giggle.
|
Endyl
|
Posted - 2003.07.17 11:34:00 -
[57]
Lord Zap,
I was talking about cruiser size weapons, I got (unfortunately) no experience at all with battleships sized weapons.
Edited by: Endyl on 17/07/2003 11:35:44
|
Morkt Drakt
|
Posted - 2003.07.17 11:54:00 -
[58]
Zap I dont think any of the large weapons are balanced that well ya know... then agian its hard to balance things like a 425 railgun when its not even really in the game (lets hope fight club on chaos gets going again).
As for the medium cruiser weapons - some of the projectiles need a tracking rate change - probably no more than 30% increase - they hit fine for damage and range and RoF - just the %too-hit is a bit too low (imo)
I reiterate that the whole "issue" about a one-on-one comparison between a railgun/laser and a projectile is invalid. You have to view these things in context, thats why railguns have a higher grid, you cant fit as many for the same grid as you can projectiles and once done projectiles cost no cap to fire - that is a BIGGY.
There remain problems with individual guns in every class - over time these will be looked at and tested and tweaked - from this entrie thread I think the "obvious" target is a look at the track rate on the 650 range.
Large, unfortunately, really needs looking at from scratch for everything.
|
Deb Dukar
|
Posted - 2003.07.17 12:52:00 -
[59]
i mentioned ammo types in first post :P
i realy loved my original setup.
aproach mobs while shooting all my 650mm scouts to nuke away shields.
then @ 10k turning 425mm on with fusion m ammo to nuke the armor.
worked great if u ahve a few havoc missiles as support.
same tactic doesnt work now (normal artys) and i have no clue why. i personaly think that just the artys and howies need some more work. amybe same tracking speed like the 250 hybrids have. its preety much the same type of weapon (long range) just uses another technic.
-------------------------
got a problem with my typos? then go to ur mom and start crying :P |
Endyl
|
Posted - 2003.07.17 12:55:00 -
[60]
250mm hybrid have 0.009 native tracking speed, or something around it.
EDIT: Just checked on TTI-Nexus, it's 0.0075 rad/sec
Edited by: Endyl on 17/07/2003 12:58:26
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |