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KIAEddZ
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Posted - 2005.07.19 09:14:00 -
[1]
Okies.
I am a lvl 5 Cal Pilot, and a lvl 5 Gallente Pilot.
The Shield tanking vs Armour tanking argument, I know has been totally "done" before.
But I now fly an Armour tanked Raven, because you have VERY little choice if you want to tank a Raven but to do so.
The simple fact is, the Shield Boost penalty of CPRs is ridiclous.
On my Mega, I can run constant a FULL tank (1 x Large Tech 2 1 x Med tech 2 & 3 Hardeners) and still have room for MWD and Warp Scramble.
Running 3 hardeners on a Raven, is impossible, as you will be capless VERY quickly.
Large Armour Rep 2s do 800 repair for 400 energy, WAY more than the best named Tech 1 Reps.
The XL Shield Booster 2 does EXACTLY the same repair as the best named tech 1, for a Meagre cap saving.
The Raven USED to be able to counter its tanks inneffectiveness using its Offensive Power, but the nerf has seen to that.
I worry for the Ravens place in PvP warfare, and that in itself is a great shame.
I would like to see the Shield Boost penalty of CPRs dropped a little, so they become a viable option once again, and RAven pilots can use a sustainable Tank in combat.
ps. The Shield Compensation skill is way underpowered aswell if that was supposed to be the answer to this problem, 2%???? Pointless.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=176347
www.kia-corp.co.uk/killboard
CEO of KIA Corp - Been doing it for the Laydeez since 1993, now we i |
Kyle Caldrel
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Posted - 2005.07.19 09:23:00 -
[2]
How about you learn to lay off the shield boosting when you dont need it mmkay?
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KIAEddZ
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Posted - 2005.07.19 09:38:00 -
[3]
Wow cleverness!!!
How about you go get in a Raven, and use it to scan for a clue.
Thx.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=176347
www.kia-corp.co.uk/killboard
CEO of KIA Corp - Been doing it for the Laydeez since 1993, now we i |
CptEagle
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Posted - 2005.07.19 09:40:00 -
[4]
But you're forgetting the Raven can always have a decent tank on while other armor tanked ships cannot because they need dmg mods, Raven can do both pretty decent. Offcourse since patch the Raven can now tank less good...
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KIAEddZ
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Posted - 2005.07.19 09:53:00 -
[5]
As I said, b4 the patch the RAven could counter its less effective Tank, with its Cap less Offensive power, but since the patch, it really is in trouble.
The MAIN problem is the natural damage resistance that the 2 Tanking methods have.
Shield Tanking is Em and Thermal Deffiecient.
Armour Tanking is Explosive and Kinetic Deffiecient.
There are 4 Main weapons in the game
Hybrids do Thermal And Kin
Lasers do Em and Therm
Projectiles do all 3, but still are biased towards Thermal and Kin.
Explosive Damage is rare unless facing a missile boat that is carrying explosive torps (which a lot do not, as the Cargo bay is too small to carry a decent number of every selection of Damage Types and of course FoFs, another point is that Missile size needs to be reduced)
So a Apoc/Mega with 3 Hardeners and 2 reps, vs a Raven with 3 Hardeners and XL booster. (Range setup is even worse as Cruise vs Tachs or 425s is a little silly, Torps vs Balsters and Megabeams is closer, but still no cigar) There is only 1 winner.
Ho hum, easy win for mega or apoc.
I cannot speak for Tempests, as have very little experience with those.
If I am wayyyy of the track here, someone put me right. But i am just speaking from experience since the patch with both forms of ships.
(ps I am running a 2 Large Rep tech 2 and 3 hardener setup on My raven, but cruise launchers suck the willy)
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=176347
www.kia-corp.co.uk/killboard
CEO of KIA Corp - Been doing it for the Laydeez since 1993, now we i |
thebold
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Posted - 2005.07.19 09:53:00 -
[6]
Eddz, back when i used to fight soul cartel people as long time ago i flew a raven, with 5x PDU's and 2x NOS, I could engage 2v1 odd's happily, i lasted just over a minuet as i picked the wrong target to shoot down :p, but the raven with 5x PDU2's is very powerful i find with good engineering skills you just need to be in scramble range to kill or they run before our second volley hits.
I am also a level 5 gal pilot, and I donĘt armour tank a thron unless its a blaster thron, I find it is pointless armour tanking a rail thron for 2 reasons, 1 425's need to do damage quick before your target starts moving closer to you unless you got painters of tracking computers on, and the fact s a full armour tank is pretty much as good as a partial tank, after all its not a apoc and the cap on the thron is crap :].
but back to the raven thing, the 400 cap useage i think should stay but maybe the boost should be increased on the named shield boosters by another 100 or so or maybe i think there was some new shield boost skill bought into game to help.
I stopped flying ravens long ago but i do remember them as monster tankers, back in the old days we used to warp 4 bs over to engage a raven he would of been invulnerable for about 30 seconds ooo bring back the old days :[
But if you really want to debate this subject you really should post in the development forums down below, dev's read posts down there..
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We do the Blowing up thingy |
pcgamereve
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Posted - 2005.07.19 10:00:00 -
[7]
try useing this setup in the lows
4 PDUs 2 Cap Flux Coil
that should make your cap good for a shield tank.
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KIAEddZ
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Posted - 2005.07.19 10:01:00 -
[8]
My normal setup is 5 PDU2s
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=176347
www.kia-corp.co.uk/killboard
CEO of KIA Corp - Been doing it for the Laydeez since 1993, now we i |
pcgamereve
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Posted - 2005.07.19 10:05:00 -
[9]
with 5 PDUs your cap recharge is still to slow for a good tank try the 2 Cap Flux Coil then whatever you can fit in the other slots.
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thebold
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Posted - 2005.07.19 10:10:00 -
[10]
hahahaha
*cough*
yea lets all fill our lows with cap flux coils.
PVPing > Activate XL Booster > ERROR: Cap Booster I Requires 400 Cap to Activate.
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We do the Blowing up thingy |
P1rate Dave
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Posted - 2005.07.19 10:11:00 -
[11]
 Originally by: KIAEddZ
So a Apoc/Mega with 3 Hardeners and 2 reps, vs a Raven with 3 Hardeners and XL booster. (Range setup is even worse as Cruise vs Tachs or 425s is a little silly, Torps vs Balsters and Megabeams is closer, but still no cigar) There is only 1 winner.
Ho hum, easy win for mega or apoc.
thats just completely wrong... mega/apoc setup for range combat with the same number of slots dedicated to armor tanking as the raven will not win if you fit your ship correctly, i fought a mega at 70km, in his optimal with 425s broke his tank and put him into structure using cruise missiles before he got my cap below 40% or my shields below 50% - mega pilot has excellent gunnery skills too, much better than my missile skills
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Altai Saker
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Posted - 2005.07.19 10:17:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Altai Saker on 19/07/2005 10:18:07
Originally by: P1rate Dave
Originally by: KIAEddZ
So a Apoc/Mega with 3 Hardeners and 2 reps, vs a Raven with 3 Hardeners and XL booster. (Range setup is even worse as Cruise vs Tachs or 425s is a little silly, Torps vs Balsters and Megabeams is closer, but still no cigar) There is only 1 winner.
Ho hum, easy win for mega or apoc.
thats just completely wrong... mega/apoc setup for range combat with the same number of slots dedicated to armor tanking as the raven will not win if you fit your ship correctly, i fought a mega at 70km, in his optimal with 425s broke his tank and put him into structure using cruise missiles before he got my cap below 40% or my shields below 50% - mega pilot has excellent gunnery skills too, much better than my missile skills
I dont disagree that the raven can pull off amazing feats in the hands of an able pilot, but I would like to see a tank that can last a lil longer... as far as the dont shield boost when you dont need to, with the current trend in ship fittings.... most ships can outdamage your XLSB's repair ammount just by themselves.
Yes they have no tank, but with that much put toward ganking the dmg they do is incredible... Ravens dont even compare...
That being said, raven > *(even if it has a not so awesome tank and piddly dmg output)
So, in conclusion, unerf the CPR's. Armor tanking is popular enough now...
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pcgamereve
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Posted - 2005.07.19 10:20:00 -
[13]
Quote:
hahahaha
*cough*
yea lets all fill our lows with cap flux coils.
PVPing > Activate XL Booster > ERROR: Cap Booster I Requires 400 Cap to Activate.
*cough*
go try them out befor jokeing about them, i know for a fact they work.
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P1rate Dave
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Posted - 2005.07.19 10:25:00 -
[14]
Edited by: P1rate Dave on 19/07/2005 10:27:17
Originally by: Altai Saker
Edited by: Altai Saker on 19/07/2005 10:18:07
I dont disagree that the raven can pull off amazing feats in the hands of an able pilot, but I would like to see a tank that can last a lil longer... as far as the dont shield boost when you dont need to, with the current trend in ship fittings.... most ships can outdamage your XLSB's repair ammount just by themselves.
Yes they have no tank, but with that much put toward ganking the dmg they do is incredible... Ravens dont even compare...
That being said, raven > *(even if it has a not so awesome tank and piddly dmg output)
So, in conclusion, unerf the CPR's. Armor tanking is popular enough now...
ok ... im testing this as i type and the mega i fought was fitted with 2 large rep and 3 hardeners (kin therm and explosive) my raven had 1 xl booster 3 hardeners (therm kin em) and 1 large siheld extender.
Turret ships cant fit for max damage and tank its not possible the raven however can, so any long range ship i meet better be setup for extreme damage to overwhelm my tank and destroy me before i take him out - theres not many ships/pilots that can do this
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Phenom
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Posted - 2005.07.19 10:31:00 -
[15]
Shield Compensation
Improved skill for regulating energy flow to
shields. 2% less capacitor need for shield
boosters per skill level.
helps the raven to tank in a better way :)
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KIAEddZ
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Posted - 2005.07.19 10:34:00 -
[16]
Pirate Dave
Bring your Raven, tanked in ANYWAY you like to 0.0 system, meet me there.
I will dispatch you in my Mega faster than you can say stop.... stop.... pease dont.... in local.
You simply DO not know what your talking about. I can't put it any plainer than that.
A dual rep Mega, with 6 blasters, will take down a 6 Siege and XL booster Raven. No problems what so ever.
You Cannot break my tank I will smash yours.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=176347
www.kia-corp.co.uk/killboard
CEO of KIA Corp - Been doing it for the Laydeez since 1993, now we i |
P1rate Dave
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Posted - 2005.07.19 10:39:00 -
[17]
Originally by: KIAEddZ
Pirate Dave
Bring your Raven, tanked in ANYWAY you like to 0.0 system, meet me there.
I will dispatch you in my Mega faster than you can say stop.... stop.... pease dont.... in local.
You simply DO not know what your talking about. I can't put it any plainer than that.
A dual rep Mega, with 6 blasters, will take down a 6 Siege and XL booster Raven. No problems what so ever.
You Cannot break my tank I will smash yours.
now now dont get angry, im just showing you facts i proved what you said about long range combat and the raven being useless is wrong and suddenly you've jumped on to close range setups ??
im guessing you have a few million more sp invested into gunnery than i have in missiles so i dont doubt you would win and im not willing to test it with oyu becuase well i dont want to loose my expensive ship
i will however test it with a corp mate and post my findings
(btw see edit to other post for my skills)
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KIAEddZ
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Posted - 2005.07.19 10:46:00 -
[18]
Ok lets go range.
My tech 2 Mega vs your cruise Raven?/
Are you serious?
My tech 2 mega would decimate your shields, your cruise I would simply laugh at.
I have 6 million in missiels, and 8 million in gunnery, i am a 25 million SP player.
I HAVE tested with corp mates, who have just as high skill sets as me, the raven loses (assume your scrambled) at range and close.
If you managed to take a Mega pilot, in a tanked ship to structure with cruise, then he MUST be a noob.
Ps my raven is running Arablest Cruise or Arablest Siege depending on the steup, and i have all new skills to lvl 4, and will be running Tech 2 launchers as soon as I find some.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=176347
www.kia-corp.co.uk/killboard
CEO of KIA Corp - Been doing it for the Laydeez since 1993, now we i |
Altai Saker
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Posted - 2005.07.19 10:52:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Altai Saker on 19/07/2005 10:54:13
See the thing is, the raven is awesome at long range where other ships have to fit crap ammo.... but if your at mid to short range you will feel the pain.
Eddz look closely at what he says and figure out how he kits his raven... think Geddon.
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P1rate Dave
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Posted - 2005.07.19 10:55:00 -
[20]
i told you exactly the setup and skill used, its fair to say the mega pilot has good gunnery not great mind you but compared to my ok/crap missile skills they are much better.
look at the setups you tell me if they are noob setups.
MY raven vs your tech 2 mega probably would loose as it should but like i said i have crap skills some1 with tech 2 cruise and the new missile skills trained to the extent your gunnery skills are trained would do a lot better
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P1rate Dave
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Posted - 2005.07.19 11:00:00 -
[21]
have to wait till after dt to try blasterthron vs torp raven
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W0lverine
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Posted - 2005.07.19 11:17:00 -
[22]
just fit 6xDm mods and 7modal neutrons(dont think you can fit techII cuz of CPU), and 1heavy diminishing(vs frigs)
AB, web distoruber and cap rech? in meds and 1 med rep II, his setup will *****any raven(if you start max 20km away
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Boonaki
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Posted - 2005.07.19 11:20:00 -
[23]
Torp raven, all missile skills at 4, 5 BCU II's (when they come out) 6 tech 2 siege launchers (when they come out) at 30ish k.
The advantage now is gunships are using tech 2 large guns where as ravens are not. We don't get the tech 2 damage bonus. You also have tech 2 gun damage mods and you wonder why ravens get owned on 1vs1 encounters?
Try spitting out 700+ damage torps (not including hardners) x6 every 10 seconds
Fear the Ibis of doom. |
W0lverine
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Posted - 2005.07.19 11:23:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Boonaki
Torp raven, all missile skills at 4, 5 BCU II's (when they come out) 6 tech 2 siege launchers (when they come out) at 30ish k.
The advantage now is gunships are using tech 2 large guns where as ravens are not. We don't get the tech 2 damage bonus. You also have tech 2 gun damage mods and you wonder why ravens get owned on 1vs1 encounters?
Try spitting out 700+ damage torps (not including hardners) x6 every 10 seconds
thats 420DPS, tanked blasterthron with top skills do more
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P1rate Dave
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Posted - 2005.07.19 11:27:00 -
[25]
Originally by: W0lverine
just fit 6xDm mods and 7modal neutrons(dont think you can fit techII cuz of CPU), and 1heavy diminishing(vs frigs)
AB, web distoruber and cap rech? in meds and 1 med rep II, his setup will *****any raven(if you start max 20km away
that setup will **** just about any ship in the game so theres nothing proved there
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Boonaki
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Posted - 2005.07.19 11:35:00 -
[26]
Originally by: W0lverine
Originally by: Boonaki
Torp raven, all missile skills at 4, 5 BCU II's (when they come out) 6 tech 2 siege launchers (when they come out) at 30ish k.
The advantage now is gunships are using tech 2 large guns where as ravens are not. We don't get the tech 2 damage bonus. You also have tech 2 gun damage mods and you wonder why ravens get owned on 1vs1 encounters?
Try spitting out 700+ damage torps (not including hardners) x6 every 10 seconds
thats 420DPS, tanked blasterthron with top skills do more
And will go through cap way faster then the raven, specificly if it has to MWD to get ontop of the raven.
PVP is very setup vs situation. If you know what your fighting and setup for that, good chance your going to win.
Fear the Ibis of doom. |
MOS DEF
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Posted - 2005.07.19 11:36:00 -
[27]
I don`t dobt your experience with the raven at all but Relays on a raven?
PDU II`s worked quite well for me considering you get a lot more shield boost PLUS the shield regen. With 5 PDU 2`s the regen is not pointless anymore.
With the new shield boost skill at 4 or 5 it still should be tankable.
Then again i wouldn`t wanna fly a raven in PvP as it is either. 
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Dracolich
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Posted - 2005.07.19 11:37:00 -
[28]
I have some trouble seeing what ur problem is, KIAEddz. If you have found a viable way to use ur 6 med slots for other than tanking, and find armor tanking better why complain? If you furthermore find cruiser missiles useless, then why use your raven at all? Why not use your uber t2 mega? You cant have the cake and eat it at the same time. Either u should let someone else fit the scramblers and any other nontank things, and fit 2 amps instead, or continue to armor tank the raven just to have the FOF possiblilty, or whatever your reason for raven instead of ur uber mega. Boonakis points are true as well. Other than this thanks for last time we fought alongside each other in Obe.
_______________________________________
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Kaeten
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Posted - 2005.07.19 11:47:00 -
[29]
Originally by: KIAEddZ
The simple fact is, the Shield Boost penalty of CPRs is ridiclous.
Total bs. If the penalty was taken away there would be ravens shield tanking all day and we all know shield tanking repairs shields faster than an armor tank. So you want ravens to go around with 5 CPR and a full shield tank? Ok... Thats jsut stupid.
The problem is also the pricing. Cap recharger 2's and cap power relays cost ah hellof alot diffrent form each other.
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Kaeten
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Posted - 2005.07.19 11:50:00 -
[30]
Originally by: KIAEddZ
On my Mega, I can run constant a FULL tank (1 x Large Tech 2 1 x Med tech 2 & 3 Hardeners) and still have room for MWD and Warp Scramble.
I bet your either running cap 800's or a nos setup cause running all that will drain your cap.
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