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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Diesel Phumes
State Protectorate
Caldari State
17
   |
Posted - 2013.02.11 14:16:00 -
[1] - Quote
I've come here today to ask a few questions in an attempt to resolve the ultimate question.
The big one: Could a game like Eve Online ever receive more subscriptions than a game like WoW? Could a sci-fi MMO ever dominate the industry?
Eve Online (sci-fi) and WoW (high-fantasy) are at opposite ends of the "nerd" spectrum. I, personally, love high-fantasy type MMOs above sci-fi type MMOs. If there was a game in existence, which was both a high-fantasy game and had the culture of Eve Online, I would probably be playing it instead.
Please, by all means, feel free to contribute anything meaningful. |
Tazer Ashpool
Psycho Clowns
0
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 14:22:00 -
[2] - Quote
What is this I don't even..
Niche game is niche.. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
12838
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 14:23:00 -
[3] - Quote
Since scifi is a subcategory of fantasy, no.
It would be pretty weird if the subset was larger than the superset. 
Vote Malcanis for CSM8. |
Diesel Phumes
State Protectorate
Caldari State
17
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 14:26:00 -
[4] - Quote
Tazer Ashpool wrote:What is this I don't even..
Niche game is niche..
Yes, but there have been others such as Star Wars.
I understand a niche, and I'm trying to further understand the MMORPG markets. So in this pursuit of curiousity I'm trying to determine if there's as much mass-appeal for lasers and spaceships as there is for swords and boards (albeit in a laser and spaceship forum). |
Abrazzar
723
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Posted - 2013.02.11 14:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
WoW is not high fantasy.
"Nerd Spectrum" is a meaningless buzzword.
How can anything meaningful be added to this?
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam
A Point In Space
575
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 14:33:00 -
[6] - Quote
Technically they are the same thing.
It's just easier to spot the links between fantasy themed games and thier mythological roots than it is with sci-fi.
The setting change, the descriptive terms are changed.
But ultimately the stories are the same now as they were when they were told around the campfires 3000+ yrs ago. |
Aren Madigan
EVE University
Ivy League
64
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Posted - 2013.02.11 14:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
Yes... see, at one point there was this viewpoint that fantasy could never really be as successful as sci fi in movies, but then in recent years there have been a string of good ones that got everyone's attention. Right now? The reverse is true for gaming. Most of the best games are fantasy and the like while a lot of the worst are sci fi, ESPECIALLY when it comes to MMOs. In fact, MMOs in general have been largely failed to catch any real appeal. Now EVE is a good game, not bad by any means, however there are a lot of areas it falls short on for many new players. Anything from control scheme to a rather ugly UI, etc. Things like that are what hold a game back, not a genre. Likely a big reason why CCP works so hard to try and improve on the UI despite the long time players long being used to it. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
1327
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 14:39:00 -
[8] - Quote
You know, I hate when people do this...but ima do this too right now because it fits:
-Posting in a stealth "EVE would get so many more subs if" thread!!!!-
There, i did it, i feel dirty, but somehow oddly liberated...... |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
236
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 14:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
You actually think the difference between WoW and EVE that makes one orders of magnitude more popular is that one has elves and one has spaceships?
Also, fantasy and sci-fi are not the same thing. Fantasy is about alternate worlds. Sci-Fi is about our world. See Star Wars vs Star Trek.
[img]http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sig.php?r=*rnd*[/img]
Desusigs can be seen on the terribad new forums using bbcode enabling script (scroll down to my post for sig rotation) |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1186
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 14:42:00 -
[10] - Quote
In the 50's, "high fantasy" was a minor genre and SF ruled pop culture. That shfited along the 60s and 70s, and currently the genres split differenlty each area. Fantasy/high fantasy rule cinema, SF rules TV, high fantasy rules the MMO market, Fantasy stands above SF in books, high fantasy and fantasy rule over SF in Asian comic and western comic favors fantasy and SF over high fantasy.
So IMO there is not a simple rule to determine what genre is "best" in each medium. I think it really is something that depends upon creators. Elves, per se, are not more attractive than aliens, albeit admittedly true SF carries a higher entry barrier than fantasy or most of high fantasy.
CCP Unifex: -á"lurking single players (...)-áare the majority of characters on Tranquility"
...And so now we know why CCP hasn't done anything for soloers since Apochrypha. |
Grimpak
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
739
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 14:42:00 -
[11] - Quote
how about both, with a bit of steampunk mixed?
[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote]
ain't that right |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1186
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 14:47:00 -
[12] - Quote
Grimpak wrote:how about both, with a bit of steampunk mixed?
Guild Wars 2 is a good instance about adding some SF to a fantasy game... They refuse to call it science and it is no science, but the Asura are almost scientists... and frankly, firearms and steam power are an interesting theme for a fantasy game.
CCP Unifex: -á"lurking single players (...)-áare the majority of characters on Tranquility"
...And so now we know why CCP hasn't done anything for soloers since Apochrypha. |
Dante Uisen
Push button receive bacon
7
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 14:51:00 -
[13] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Since scifi is a subcategory of fantasy, no. It would be pretty weird if the subset was larger than the superset.
Fantasy and science fiction, are both subcategories of fiction... |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
1327
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 14:54:00 -
[14] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:You actually think the difference between WoW and EVE that makes one orders of magnitude more popular is that one has elves and one has spaceships?
Well said. I think the real reason is thempark vs sandbox. Walt Disney wouldn't have made billions if Disney land was made of sand :) .
Another poster summed it up in another thread where he said he could go afk to take care of his newborn in WoW without losing anything where as that's not a god idea in EVE.
If "seeting" (sci-fi vs Fantasy) was a real issue, why aren't their more fantasy MMOs with WoWs sub numbers?
Quote:
Also, fantasy and sci-fi are not the same thing. Fantasy is about alternate worlds. Sci-Fi is about our world. See Star Wars vs Star Trek.
Well said part deux.
While i don't think it's the prime factor, setting is important. I think more gamers prefer alternate worlds more than "what our own world could be". It's not the only way gamers (who like interactive entertainment) tend to be different from average movie go-ers (who tend to prefer passive/spectator style entertainment).. |
Tazer Ashpool
Psycho Clowns
0
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 15:08:00 -
[15] - Quote
Game mechanics > FLUFF. NO other game is as complex and Sandboxy as EVE....most players don't even grasp what other people do when they log in to TQ (and they are not suppose to know either) There are a lot of ways to play eve. You can even play it at a themepark level...
IMHO when you have the kind of game mechanics and infratructure built as EvE has (and bleeding edge graphics) the fluff itself becomes unimportant. I would easily play games of eve's magnitude and complexity with sword and boardy themes and fluff.
|
ChromeStriker
The Riot Formation
Unclaimed.
479
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 15:10:00 -
[16] - Quote
Say NO to Orks in space!!!!!!!!!!!
-
Nulla Curas |
Diesel Phumes
State Protectorate
Caldari State
17
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 15:18:00 -
[17] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:You actually think the difference between WoW and EVE that makes one orders of magnitude more popular is that one has elves and one has spaceships?
Also, fantasy and sci-fi are not the same thing. Fantasy is about alternate worlds. Sci-Fi is about our world. See Star Wars vs Star Trek.
Absolutely.
|
Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam
A Point In Space
575
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 15:24:00 -
[18] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote: Also, fantasy and sci-fi are not the same thing. Fantasy is about alternate worlds. Sci-Fi is about our world. See Star Wars vs Star Trek.
Fantasy is Fiction, because it's non factual.
Sigurd, Arthur, Hercules, Robin Hood are all examples of Fantasy based on legend and mythology.
They all represent ideals to strive for, Sigurd & Hercules are all about heroism and overcoming obstacles, and those 2 tales are seperated by about 3000 years. Arthur & Robin Hood represent tales of virtue, justice and equality seperated by a few hundred years.
Star Trek isn't so very different from the legends of Jason & the Argonauts
Star Wars isn't so very different from the Nibelungenlied
Klingon and Minbari & Elf and Orc are just 4 "non human" races, and Tolkien could have just as easily used Klingon as a descriptive term instead of Orc.
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Diesel Phumes
State Protectorate
Caldari State
17
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 15:27:00 -
[19] - Quote
If nothing else, many people here today will learn to accurately use words which have the potential to spark heated nerd debate. RAWR. In all serious though, I do appreciate becoming enlightened (I always laugh a lil' inside when I witness people using words in the wrong context). |
The VC's
Spack Force 5
117
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 15:49:00 -
[20] - Quote
Girls like fantasy, boys like sci-fi and fantasy. Some boys will play games because they have girls.
You need to be a particularly dedicated nerd to play eve online. |
Mirajane Cromwell
115
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 15:51:00 -
[21] - Quote
ChromeStriker wrote:Say NO to Orks in space!!!!!!!!!!!
"Oi! Space marine! I'm gonna crush your 'ead and put it on a spike!"
Orcs (or other fantasy elements) do fit scifi games if they're done correctly - WH40K is one good example. |
Tazer Ashpool
Psycho Clowns
0
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 15:55:00 -
[22] - Quote
Kitty Bear wrote:Crumplecorn wrote: Also, fantasy and sci-fi are not the same thing. Fantasy is about alternate worlds. Sci-Fi is about our world. See Star Wars vs Star Trek. Fantasy is Fiction, because it's non factual. Sigurd, Arthur, Hercules, Robin Hood are all examples of Fantasy based on legend and mythology. They all represent ideals to strive for, Sigurd & Hercules are all about heroism and overcoming obstacles, and those 2 tales are seperated by about 3000 years. Arthur & Robin Hood represent tales of virtue, justice and equality seperated by a few hundred years. Star Trek isn't so very different from the legends of Jason & the Argonauts Star Wars isn't so very different from the Nibelungenlied Klingon and Minbari & Elf and Orc are just 4 "non human" races, and Tolkien could have just as easily used Klingon as a descriptive term instead of Orc.
Everyone is same because everyone has to eat and sh**? regardless of fluff?
The fluff in SCI-FI is of couse fluff but it is inspired by our own world and ourselves blowing the boundaries of technology ............Fantasy is based on shooting lightning from your fingertips and slaying dragons and creating new worlds even if you find the "different species and new worlds/planets in SCI-FI it did not start out as that. At the outset SCI-FI was more "authentic "than Fantasy
OF course the two genres has intermingled and so on and so forth..
A rancor =/= a dragon even i the similarties in standing up against one (or a balrog) is very ehm striking.
A story is not so different from antother story...
Game mechanics IMO IS the game the other stuff is just a skin ,(in an avatar sense) the skin itself is mostly art and design but it is pretty much dead and shallow and fluff. and RP. But as every RP knows, rp without game mechanics , but fluff is just theater. |
Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
46
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 16:11:00 -
[23] - Quote
Tazer Ashpool wrote:
A rancor =/= a dragon even i the similarties in standing up against one (or a balrog) is very ehm striking.
No, a rancor is a rancor, the krayt dragon is a dragon. :)
There's nothing a million chinese guys can't do cheaper. |
Alaekessa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Zombie Ninja Space Bears
85
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 16:51:00 -
[24] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Grimpak wrote:how about both, with a bit of steampunk mixed? Guild Wars 2 is a good instance about adding some SF to a fantasy game... They refuse to call it science and it is no science, but the Asura are almost scientists... and frankly, firearms and steam power are an interesting theme for a fantasy game.
TBH, my favorite homebrew D&D games were always the ones that took a mix of fantasy and early science. Think "Most of the world is still in the Renaissance though there are cultures that are definitely in an early industrial age". Magic existing in a campaign setting doesn't mean that basic science can't as well, if you can blend them nicely, all the better.
In closing, Tinkers FTW.
C'mon CCP, let us suicide gank the high-sec pub matches in Dust..... |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
3431
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 17:00:00 -
[25] - Quote
Science Fiction requires a real life logical explanation, or at least a currently theoretical one, for any of the concepts and actions that are presented.
Fantasy does have that requirement. No Real Life explanations required at all.
This is why "Star Wars" is Space Fantasy and not Science Fiction.
This is why "Game of Thrones" is Fantasy (impossible dragons and extremely variable season lengths but otherwise normal planetary environment).
This is why "Ringworld" is Science Fiction.
Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months.
- Oscar Wilde - 1870's |
Diesel Phumes
State Protectorate
Caldari State
17
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 17:04:00 -
[26] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:WoW is not high fantasy.
"Nerd Spectrum" is a meaningless buzzword.
How can anything meaningful be added to this?
Get out much? |
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
1104
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 17:58:00 -
[27] - Quote
Mirajane Cromwell wrote:ChromeStriker wrote:Say NO to Orks in space!!!!!!!!!!! "Oi! Space marine! I'm gonna crush your 'ead and put it on a spike!"Orcs (or other fantasy elements) do fit scifi games if they're done correctly - WH40K is one good example.
I could also see Orcs being based off of reavers from Firefly. At least their barbaric traits and ship style.
|
Mire Stoude
Antelope with Night Vision Goggles
97
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 18:02:00 -
[28] - Quote
Clearly CCP wants to add vampires and werewolves to Eve online eventually. |
Ris Dnalor
L'Avant Garde
Happy Endings
446
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 18:14:00 -
[29] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Since scifi is a subcategory of fantasy, no. It would be pretty weird if the subset was larger than the superset.
actually he's just talking about one subset being larger than another subset. have another cup of coffee :P
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961
EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody
- Qolde |
Markatta
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 18:17:00 -
[30] - Quote
If Blizzard had released the Starcraft RTS before Warcraft, the OP would probably be asking the inverse question.
Fantasy MMOs seem "successful" only by virtue of WoW's massive popularity - but I'd argue that its popularity is rooted more in a confluence of name recognition, marketing, technological developments, timing, and a healthy dose of luck than in any differences between fantasy and sci-fi. |
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