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afk cyno cloaking taking the fight out of the game!

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Sura Sadiva Entropic Tactical Crew 293	Posted - 2013.02.20 13:32:00 - [61] - Quote Cephelange du'Krevviq wrote: How does someone that is AFK extort ISK from the locals? I need to learn how to do that. Probably more he stay cloacked AFK more the natives terror increase. So after some time they collapse and start tp pay ramsom to him begging to leave them alone. And all this with him being AFK. Kinda like PI farming :)
Sura Sadiva Entropic Tactical Crew 293	Posted - 2013.02.20 13:52:00 - [62] - Quote And often the AFK cloacker is in a simple Vigil with T1 cloacking device. But can tell to them to be in a new super-recon-cruisr, ready to hotdrop on them a whole klingon fleet. So they panic and stay closed in their station. And those are the almighty hardcore 0.0 alliances, powerblocs of EVE :)
Speedkermit Damo Callide Vulpis Curatores Veritatis Alliance 31	Posted - 2013.02.20 14:12:00 - [63] - Quote Cephelange du'Krevviq wrote: Not like CVA undocks without at least 3 to 1 odds, anyway. How do you, as a member of the biggest blob in the history of Eve expect to post such a comment and expect to not look like a complete tool? Don't Panic.
Signal11th The Retirement Club 901	Posted - 2013.02.20 15:49:00 - [64] - Quote Speedkermit Damo wrote: Sjugar wrote: You don't get to be "safe" in null (and I say this as a nullsec resident Unless you're a cloaky afk camper. if someone wants to afk cloaky camp a system for days or weeks on end, then that's fine. But there should at least be some risk of that player finding a wreck and a corpse floating in space when they do eventually return to their keyboard. Why? if they are afk as you say then they are causing you no hassles whatsoever...... God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster.
Cephelange du'Krevviq Hephaestus LLC Get Off My Lawn 131	Posted - 2013.02.20 16:31:00 - [65] - Quote Speedkermit Damo wrote: Cephelange du'Krevviq wrote: Not like CVA undocks without at least 3 to 1 odds, anyway. How do you, as a member of the biggest blob in the history of Eve expect to post such a comment and expect to not look like a complete tool? Maybe because when our corp (not our alliance) were flying around your space for the past two weeks in a fleet of ~20 Tech I cruisers and logi...and no one would form a fleet to fight us? All of this is off-topic, however. Quote: Probably more he stay cloacked [sic] AFK more the natives terror increase. So after some time they collapse and start tp pay ramsom to him begging to leave them alone. And all this with him being AFK. Kinda like PI farming :) If the player is there to negotiate ransoms, they aren't AFK, are they? "My hotdrop was bigger." "Accidental cyno best cyno."
Speedkermit Damo Callide Vulpis Curatores Veritatis Alliance 31	Posted - 2013.02.20 16:32:00 - [66] - Quote Signal11th wrote: Speedkermit Damo wrote: Sjugar wrote: You don't get to be "safe" in null (and I say this as a nullsec resident Unless you're a cloaky afk camper. if someone wants to afk cloaky camp a system for days or weeks on end, then that's fine. But there should at least be some risk of that player finding a wreck and a corpse floating in space when they do eventually return to their keyboard. Why? if they are afk as you say then they are causing you no hassles whatsoever...... But... How does one know if they are AFK? I suupose when one of em ganks you, at least you know they're not AFK. The real question is - why are all forms of AFK activity frowned upon except for AFK cloaky camping? I propose that activating a cloak, means the cloaked ship should not show up in local. Don't Panic.
Cephelange du'Krevviq Hephaestus LLC Get Off My Lawn 131	Posted - 2013.02.20 16:54:00 - [67] - Quote Do people frown on people sitting AFK in stations? "My hotdrop was bigger." "Accidental cyno best cyno."
Dracvlad Saints Among Sinners Executive Outcomes 56	Posted - 2013.02.21 07:36:00 - [68] - Quote What about AFK in a POS? Is that a naughty don't do?
Signal11th The Retirement Club 901	Posted - 2013.02.21 08:38:00 - [69] - Quote Speedkermit Damo wrote: Signal11th wrote: Speedkermit Damo wrote: Sjugar wrote: You don't get to be "safe" in null (and I say this as a nullsec resident Unless you're a cloaky afk camper. if someone wants to afk cloaky camp a system for days or weeks on end, then that's fine. But there should at least be some risk of that player finding a wreck and a corpse floating in space when they do eventually return to their keyboard. Why? if they are afk as you say then they are causing you no hassles whatsoever...... But... How does one know if they are AFK? I suupose when one of em ganks you, at least you know they're not AFK. The real question is - why are all forms of AFK activity frowned upon except for AFK cloaky camping? I propose that activating a cloak, means the cloaked ship should not show up in local. Yes but really I know it's a hassle but in reality whats stopping you doing other things? There are plenty of other systems to rat in, plenty of other things e.g exploration you can do. An AFK cloaky doesn't actually stop you doing anything in EVE. I'm pointing this out as a longtime resident of 0.0 so I have deal with afk cloakys all the time and really when I look back they haven't caused me any grief whatsoever. You do something else until they get bored which they will do and move on somewhere else. They only hang around if you give them a reason to, tears in local, easy ganks etc remove that then they go. As for your point on the removing them from local if they activate a cloak? to what point is that going to make a difference?? All that will happen is they will show up in local just at the point they open up a cyno to their mates and you're screwed anyway. What we need is a system similar but expanded on in Wormholes, remove all local but make everything in the system have to be scanned down. This way the cloaky has a purpose to scan down all the sites if he is indeed a pvp guy. And by doing that he will have to use probes and then you can see his is now not afk. local is what is killing your ratting not the cloaky. God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster.
Dracvlad Saints Among Sinners Executive Outcomes 56	Posted - 2013.02.21 09:43:00 - [70] - Quote I like it as it is, removing local is a silly idea, it only helps people who are unable to get around local based intel channels and makes it impossible for intelligent players to control risk in 0.0.

Onomerous Shockwave Innovations Shockwave Sovereign Industries 12	Posted - 2013.02.22 20:56:00 - [71] - Quote Sura Sadiva wrote: "AFK warfare" us undeed a serious issue and a severe threat. But be carefull to don't understimate the "offline warfare". This people can be far more disruptive. Ponder about this: you can't see them, they're not in local, they're not even logged in EVE. Maybe they're at work or at school, or with their girlfriend, or simply sleeping. But they're somewhere outside, in the world, plotting against your ships. How can you guys continue playing serenily with this impending danger? How can CCP dare to allow NS to be dangerous? NS is definitely broken if people can have their ships destroyed. ;)
snake pies Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 85	Posted - 2013.02.22 22:45:00 - [72] - Quote a tool to decloak solves afk cloaking a tool to block cyno from lighting or in stops it in progress solves the fear that everything can hotdrop these days a true counter, but not overpowering
Rio Bravo Morphitex Sanctuary Pact 9	Posted - 2013.02.23 16:08:00 - [73] - Quote Got a suggestion, People whined alot about AFK miners in 0.9...so much so that the forums were filled with people talking about ganks and suicide ganks, and botters and all sorts of solutions to these things. It is true, no one should be safe in EVE, that the game, protect yourself, but the only true way of being safe should be sitting in a station. So AFK cloaking should be given a nerf. I like cloaks, use them myself. They great for intel gathering, transport, calling in support, exploring, and other things too. but the safety of a cloaked ships in a safe spot is absolute. It is OP, any reasonable person can see that, and is ripe for abuse. The appeal of cloakng is to have the initiative, to choose when and how to engage in battle, to set the conditions of conflict. These are good in themselves, when someone is active operating the cloak. What is being abused about cloaking, is disrupting gameplay of players, by increasing the risk involved in operating with a "red" or "neut" in system all day until they log. Most characters are subject to real lifes finite time restrictions (unless your an NPC or terminally nerdy). It is passive and lazy, and frankly, mildly griefy. While increasing the risk involved for other players, the nature of cloak, removes all risk for the cloaked ship, even to the point of being AFK all day long. I get btw, that some scream complacency tactics. Not a big fan of anchorable modules that detect cloaks, sweepers, or probes that can track them. What I do suggest is this...Give cloaks a cycle time, and have them consume fuel. This does a couple things. It gives them a duration away from support. It is an expense, they have to consume resources and have to have a degree of cargo space, and most of all, keeps them at least partially active. Remove the "lazy" aspect from AFK cloaking CCP. Do not let cloaked ships be decloaked, but reduce thier duation of operation with fuel and a cycle time. If cap or fuel run out, then the cloaky is vulnerable. It is a mild nerf, but removes the lazy, people will find ways to operate a cloak taking all that into account, to replace as much lazy back into it as they can. Maybe a new skill, might be good to introduce to reduce fuel costs or cap costs of the new cloak cycle, idk. You devs can figure that out, this was just a suggestion, to mitigate what I find is getting out of hand...All day, camping, AFK cloakies. GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥ -á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
Letisha Roots Bath Salt Zombies 1	Posted - 2013.02.24 04:36:00 - [74] - Quote if null seccers wasnt such risk adverse fags afk cloakers wouldnt bother them imo
Rio Bravo Morphitex Sanctuary Pact 11	Posted - 2013.02.24 14:28:00 - [75] - Quote Letisha Roots wrote: if null seccers wasnt such risk adverse EDIT: No sexual innuendos - ISD Tyrozan afk cloakers wouldnt bother them imo I have no idea what your saying, or what your position is...I mean isn't cloaking being risk averse? GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥ -á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
Maggeridon Thoraz Reconfiguration Nation Transmission Lost 49	Posted - 2013.02.24 17:24:00 - [76] - Quote howw as he afk if he light up a cyno ? if he is afk, why beeing scared ? if scared why not go out with friends and people guarding you ?. you can bait as well or move to next system.
Dread Operative Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats 156	Posted - 2013.02.24 18:34:00 - [77] - Quote There is a SUPER easy way to limit the impact of afk cloaked. Ask in local, "How much Isk to leave me alone?" or something along those lines. As long as he doest reply, he's probably not at his keyboard.
Rio Bravo Morphitex Sanctuary Pact 11	Posted - 2013.02.24 20:32:00 - [78] - Quote Guess you can't really tell wether they are AFK or not....they could be, actually, sitting there all day just watching. Like some kind of voyeur pervert. Can't be sure, your right. In a worm hole you wouldn't be able to see them in local anyways...and they couldn't see you. There is the Replicator series of toons, they all are called 'Replicator' with 4 numbers after the name. The alliance that sponsors them, has each one sit cloaked in a system as eyes...some can hot drop. There is like 43 alts that do this, and thats all they do...sit and watch and sell the kills they see to hot dropper fleets. If they had to fuel thier cloaks with isotopes or stront, would become unmanageable to supply them. Could say its ingeneuos, or exploitive...depends wether its your systems they are camped in. Anyways, I think this sort of thing when taken too far unbalances the game...but idk, I just do something else if it gets too weird where I am. GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥ -á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
ALUCARD 1208 Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis 130	Posted - 2013.02.24 21:19:00 - [79] - Quote what makes me smile is that ur guys days get ruined because your so scared to undock cos theres a neutral in system... Its Only Pixels ....... GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á
Cephelange du'Krevviq Hephaestus LLC Get Off My Lawn 131	Posted - 2013.02.24 23:30:00 - [80] - Quote If they're truly AFK, they won't follow you to a different system. Seriously, if you really deserve that pocket of space your alliance claims sov on, then you adjust or adapt to the neut being in local. I really can't believe people are making this much noise about this topic still. "My hotdrop was bigger." "Accidental cyno best cyno."

Edah Puss State War Academy Caldari State 2	Posted - 2013.02.25 00:40:00 - [81] - Quote OP: Can you please explain to me how somebody who is AFK can hurt you? You are aware that AFK means Away From Keyboard, aren't you? Do you realise that means that when a person is not at their computer, then they cant control the game? Or do you think they will telepathicly sense your presence in local and with their freaky superior mind control, press the keys and push the mouse around with their mind, and remotely control their ship to come and gank you? Which one is it OP, because your entire argument falls flat due to some pretty critical logical failures.
Rio Bravo Morphitex Sanctuary Pact 11	Posted - 2013.02.25 01:55:00 - [82] - Quote Op in that you can choose when and how to engage...thats what cloaks do. You can never know when they are at the KB. Then they hot drop fleets to thier location. That is how its dangerous. It' s when every system is got an afk sleeper, disrupts your economy very badly for no risk to the red. Well, maybe I am whining now... GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥ -á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
Speedkermit Damo Callide Vulpis Curatores Veritatis Alliance 32	Posted - 2013.02.25 15:30:00 - [83] - Quote All null-sec residents incure degrees of risk, whatever their activities. The only exceptions are afk cloakers. Why should they be any different? Don't Panic.
Cephelange du'Krevviq Hephaestus LLC Get Off My Lawn 131	Posted - 2013.02.25 15:55:00 - [84] - Quote Speedkermit Damo wrote: All null-sec residents incure [sic] degrees of risk, whatever their activities. The only exceptions are afk cloakers. Why should they be any different? Is a person docked up at risk? No. Is a person POSed up at risk? No. A person cloaked and AFK is, for all intents and purposes, the same as docked up or POSed up. All are exhibiting the same amount of activity - that is to say, none. Please let it sink in a person that is AFK is no threat. None, zero, zilch, nada, nichts, etc. "My hotdrop was bigger." "Accidental cyno best cyno."
Knorkor Spartan Advanced Mining Infinite Aggression 17	Posted - 2013.02.25 18:27:00 - [85] - Quote Cephelange du'Krevviq wrote: Speedkermit Damo wrote: All null-sec residents incure [sic] degrees of risk, whatever their activities. The only exceptions are afk cloakers. Why should they be any different? Is a person docked up at risk? No. Is a person POSed up at risk? No. A person cloaked and AFK is, for all intents and purposes, the same as docked up or POSed up. All are exhibiting the same amount of activity - that is to say, none. Please let it sink in a person that is AFK is no threat. None, zero, zilch, nada, nichts, etc. You don't know if he is a threat or not, because you don't know if he is AFK or not. And you also don't know how big of a threat he can be. When he decides to attack, he can field anything he wants, from a few SB's and Recons up to a few hundred Black Ops and even capitals and supers. That's why I think something must be done. Not because of the threat, but because it is unpredictable as hell and a very important factor of Eve, Risk vs Reward, cannot be outweighed properly. While he can do that very well by spying for an infinite amount of time without any risk. That is why I made the suggestion to limit (covert) cynos in Mass.
Rio Bravo Morphitex Sanctuary Pact 11	Posted - 2013.02.25 19:18:00 - [86] - Quote of course many who don't have a problem with AFK cloakies, seemed to have very big problem with AFK miners...miners were no threat either, but was "lazy"...as is AFK cloaking. You make cloaks consume fuel, doesn't affect thier operation for tactics, but strategically, changes thier management. Makes it less lazy...a suggestion I made was cycle time, and fuel. Any body that comes back and says that AFK miners in their hulks were damaging the economy and so had to be nerfed and ganked, should apply thier own reasonings to the economics of all day AFK cloakers. If there is enough noise and begins to affect the game, CCP will do something. Anyway, I won't post for this topic anymore. It just becomes a troll fest if you keep commenting after you already got your point acrossed. GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥ -á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
Cephelange du'Krevviq Hephaestus LLC Get Off My Lawn 131	Posted - 2013.02.25 20:05:00 - [87] - Quote Except that those AFK/botting miners were actually doing something. A truly AFK cloaked vessel/pilot is literally doing nothing but sitting in space. Quote: You don't know if he is a threat or not, because you don't know if he is AFK or not. If they are AFK, they aren't a threat. As I already suggested, relocate to a different system and conduct your operations there. If they follow, then they aren't AFK. If they don't follow, then odds are they are. You're right, you don't know 100% sure if they're AFK, but nullsec isn't about being safe when engaged in activity. Let me re-attack this from a different perspective. What has CCP's approach been when there's an issue like this? Do they change it to make things safer for a larger portion of the playerbase than it makes things less safe for? No, they don't. If CCP were to implement a change that required fuel or cap use for an active cloak so more nullbears could feel safe, that would go against their usual stance/mindset. "My hotdrop was bigger." "Accidental cyno best cyno."
Knorkor Spartan Advanced Mining Infinite Aggression 17	Posted - 2013.02.25 20:18:00 - [88] - Quote Cephelange du'Krevviq wrote: What has CCP's approach been when there's an issue like this? Do they change it to make things safer for a larger portion of the playerbase than it makes things less safe for? No, they don't. If CCP were to implement a change that required fuel or cap use for an active cloak so more nullbears could feel safe, that would go against their usual stance/mindset. So it is okay for it to be totally and 100% safe for the camper? Because that is what you just said. Where is the risk/reward system here? The camper can be rewarded with a dropped industry level for absolutely no risk.
Cephelange du'Krevviq Hephaestus LLC Get Off My Lawn 131	Posted - 2013.02.25 21:18:00 - [89] - Quote Knorkor wrote: Cephelange du'Krevviq wrote: What has CCP's approach been when there's an issue like this? Do they change it to make things safer for a larger portion of the playerbase than it makes things less safe for? No, they don't. If CCP were to implement a change that required fuel or cap use for an active cloak so more nullbears could feel safe, that would go against their usual stance/mindset. So it is okay for it to be totally and 100% safe for the camper? Because that is what you just said. Where is the risk/reward system here? The camper can be rewarded with a dropped industry level for absolutely no risk. If CCP has to pick from the following scenarios, which do you think they will pick? 1) Add some sort of "active" cost to cloaking a) decreases safety for those that like to cloak up and camp a system AFK b) gives system dwellers 100% accountability of threats 2) Keep current mechanics as they are a) keeps things at a manageable level of risk for system dwellers b) doesn't require addition or tweaking of program code c) keeps less than 1%* of playerbase safe * ok, so it's a number I pulled out of my...hat...but let's face it, if the players online are in the 30k to 40k range, I think it's safe to say there are probably no more than 300 to 400 AFK cloaky campers online. Oh, and I'll reiterate this, too: If the cloaky player is AFK, the people in the system are safe from him/her, too. "My hotdrop was bigger." "Accidental cyno best cyno."
Seraph IX Basarab Hades Effect 130	Posted - 2013.02.26 01:26:00 - [90] - Quote Knorkor wrote: Cephelange du'Krevviq wrote: What has CCP's approach been when there's an issue like this? Do they change it to make things safer for a larger portion of the playerbase than it makes things less safe for? No, they don't. If CCP were to implement a change that required fuel or cap use for an active cloak so more nullbears could feel safe, that would go against their usual stance/mindset. So it is okay for it to be totally and 100% safe for the camper? Because that is what you just said. Where is the risk/reward system here? The camper can be rewarded with a dropped industry level for absolutely no risk. Wait how does the AFK cloaker take your industry level away?



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