i know its an old subject, but im kinda sick of fighting an enemy that cant be countered!

I'd just like to fight for my system... not be afk camped so that risk outwieghs rewards for undocking, for months / years?

you want to shut industry down in a system it shouldnt be as easy as putting one cyno ship in it and cynoing once a day!

so my issue is i'd like to fight... but there is nothing to fight, while everyone in the alliance is playing other games because they cant do anything in EVE.

CCP wonders why nobody wants to come to null, there is no means to defend your territiory!

i know this is going to get rage from all those people who make a living out of cyno camping alliance's in null.... and every one of their alts... kinda sucks people with 10-30 alts count as 10-30 active players!

There is one very simple counter to this, stay aligned. Something uncloaks, warp. Sadly this is the best way to counter this, im not a fan of AFK cloakers but one just have to adapt.

If you want to be safe go back to highsec. AFK cloaking is one of the only counters to the perfect intel tool that is local. Btw I don't AFK camp and haven't bothered killing ratters in a long while. There isn't any sport in it. That said I still support the practice 100% for those who enjoy it.

thats the problem, this is the mechanic is keeping people out of null... and yes the entire system sucks, maybe local can be modified to give agressors an edge for surprise attacks

but camping for months / years?

just plain wrong!

i know its an old subject, but im kinda sick of fighting an enemy that cant be countered!

I'd just like to fight for my system... not be afk camped so that risk outwieghs rewards for undocking, for months / years?

Local is not the issue, and the AFK cloaky campers just make that point in every AFK thread that there is, its to change the subject away from their inability to actually kill anyone.

PvPers aren't scared of afk cloakers, what you actually mean is "WAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH I JUST WANT TO RAT IN PEACE WHY CAN'T THE BAD MAN LEAVE ME ALONE? LEAVE RATTERS ALONE!!!"



If they are unable to kill anyone, why are you weeping about them?

Surely if they aren't a threat you can just rat away in perfect nullbeary safety without concern.

you're reading and comprehension skills need some work on them

Force projection issue. Not a cloaking issue.

Agreed. Wouldn't be a problem if that one red cloaky didn't represent 30+ people with his cyno.

i know its an old subject, but im kinda sick of fighting an enemy that cant be countered!

I'd just like to fight for my bots... not be afk camped so that risk outwieghs rewards for botting, for months / years?

you want to shut botting down in a system it shouldnt be as easy as putting one cyno ship in it and cynoing once a day!

so my issue is i'd like to bot... but i cant because the bots see someone in local.

CCP wonders why nobody wants to bot, there is no means to defend your bots!

i know this is going to get rage from all those people who make a living out of AFK cloaky camping botting systems.... and every one of their alts... kinda sucks when I depend on my bots to make isk!

i know its an old subject, but im kinda sick of fighting an enemy that cant be countered!

I'd just like to fight for my system... not be afk camped so that risk outwieghs rewards for undocking, for months / years?

you want to shut industry down in a system it shouldnt be as easy as putting one cyno ship in it and cynoing once a day!

so my issue is i'd like to fight... but there is nothing to fight, while everyone in the alliance is playing other games because they cant do anything in EVE.

CCP wonders why nobody wants to come to null, there is no means to defend your territiory!

i know this is going to get rage from all those people who make a living out of cyno camping alliance's in null.... and every one of their alts... kinda sucks people with 10-30 alts count as 10-30 active players!

Wow - someone's complaining about AFK cloaking. I never thought I'd see the day.

Everyone knows cloaks are getting changed the same day they remove local from null.

But I still like these 'Im scared of the guy who is afk so I stay docked' threads:

Notice how the people in high sec never complain.
Notice how the people in low sec never complain.

But - the big bad scary null sec people cry like little girls.

There is a very simple solution to this that would make you happy and not require cloaks to be changed.





Hint:
The 1st word of my response is the solution to your problem.

Well you got most of it right.

Only thing is it is not the big bad null sec players that are crying. it is the player who wanna be big bad null secers but are actually null bears that are crying.

Living in NULL sec does not make you tough or a good PVPer.

Living in NULL sec and not caring if you get blown up is the key.

Living in NULL sec and actually fighting even if you are going to lose, rather than hiding in a station or POS.

That is what will make you a big bad null secer. because actually fighting rather than hiding, no matter how bad you are at PVP, you will get better, and eventually not suck. That is when you will truly know what it means to be a big bad NULL secer. You will have no fear, and see those afk cloakers not as a threat, but as a potential killmail. Only then will your training be complete.

Collecting nullbear tears in the millionth "waaah a single cloaked neutral prevents our entire system from being able to do anything" thread

Funny how wormhole dwellers can manage without even knowing if a cloaked ship is in their system

Funny that , must be something to do with the inability to jump to a lit cyno in WH space, might that be the reason, engage the grey matter and you might just get there!

Flip side is you don't need the cyno in WH space. You can easily hide an entire fleet inside the system as local doesn't give you away.

you only can hide something you already got there.

I'm new here but i've never heard about 100 person fleets in WH. Did i miss something? Is it connected to mass limit of WH and absense of persisting connections?

you only can hide something you already got there.

I'm new here but i've never heard about 100 person fleets in WH. Did i miss something? Is it connected to mass limit of WH and absense of persisting connections?

Local is not the issue, and the AFK cloaky campers just make that point in every AFK thread that there is, its to change the subject away from their inability to actually kill anyone. The only change I would make is that they show in local when they actually are in system. At the moment they show in local and there is a delay before they are in system and can warp.

In terms of the people camping your system, have a good look at them, when did they change corps, when did they get on kills etc., with that you may be able to work out when they are actually active. Try to link them to hot droppers, it is important to find out who is their muscle and if you have that you should be able to work out when they are active.

Part of the battle is to continue to operate regardless, just go and buy about 10 Ventures and mine in system, wouldn't that be better then moaning about it? You mine low level ore in High Sec and high level ores in 0.0, use Ventures and industrials to grab the ore and annoy the hell out of them. So you lose a couple of cheap ships, so what!!!!

What difference does it make how big the fleet is, pretty much all of these threads pop up as a result of some lone bear getting attacked, or a tiny few (1-5) people getting "camped" in their system by the big bad scary cwoaker - it's not big fleets with hundreds of people that is the issue, since a small fleet can just as easily kill them, it's purely the fact that a fleet can appear out of nowhere without local giving them a huge ridiculous infallible warning.

And the risk of fleets materialising out of nowhere is just as big in wormholes, but that doesn't seem to bother us

couldn't have said it better,

bring the fight... AFK warfare why people are staying out of null

There is a counter..................its called a cyno jammer.

Nullbear tears are just so much more awesome than high sec miner tears!!

AFK cloakers are not an issue in iteself, there are two issues coupled to it that make it problematic:

Local: The instantaneous and omniscient local chat as an intel tool is too perfect... It makes the vigilant pilot impossible to catch... and ends up disheartening roaming to the point they'd rather sit on a titan and put afk cloakies in your system...

Cyno's: The ability to light a cyno and drop a pragmatically unscoutable gang of any size, shape, or composition instantly on a target makes countering a "cloaker that's decloaking and attacking" difficult and generally impractical. There are many solutions to this, but most of them make it impractical to hotdrop... which is a mistake.... Hotdrops should exist... The best solution I've heard of is different classes of ships take different amounts of time to "traverse" the bridge... Frigates travel very quickly... BS's arrive much later.... This still isn't perfect, but helps...

In the end.... several things need to change....and I'm not sure afk cloakers need to at all....

A.) Local chat needs to become less ideal.... give it a moderate delay (10-20 seconds) before a person appears in local so they have more of a chance to catch someone...

B.) Nullsec PvE should be modified to encourage more grouping... Reduce bounties, and instead give a solid payout for completing an anomaly... Structure that payout similar to incursions where payouts require a fleet and X number of ships... and less than that dramatically reduces your payout... If you want to solo... belt rat!

If A occurs, I'll support a cloaky prober tool to hunt afk cloakers in your system... so long as it doesn't interfere with a cloaker's ability to traverse gate camps or scout a system... (i.e. a slow scanning (30-60s), combat probe that doesn't decloak a ship, but enables you to warp to their location.... )

The only thing that needs to change is that Cloaking can still be done, but not afk. After 30 minutes of non-activity accounts should be logged out.

The only thing that needs to change is that Cloaking can still be done, but not afk. After 30 minutes of non-activity accounts should be logged out.

Quite a technical challenge though.

You don't get to be "safe" in null (and I say this as a nullsec resident

Unless you're a cloaky afk camper.

if someone wants to afk cloaky camp a system for days or weeks on end, then that's fine. But there should at least be some risk of that player finding a wreck and a corpse floating in space when they do eventually return to their keyboard.

Not like CVA undocks without at least 3 to 1 odds, anyway.

Oh, and -1 for quoting the wrong person.

Zap- the only person I see coming close to forum raging is you. Some of you seem unable or unwilling to grasp the simple fact that a person that is AFK....wait for it...can't hurt you. At all. If they are AFK, the only impact they have on your operations is what you allow them to have.

Many years ago when i lived in Feyth, we had a hostile dude in an Arazu who would hang out in our station system. Every now and again, his friends would be close to hand, and he'd go and tackle something and try and kill them. We used to take bets on who could kill him the most times.

Look... The thing to remember is that the tactics you people want done away with have some pretty severe limitations. For example, a guy cannot both point you AND light a cyno. It's an either/or. Assuming you stay calm, stay aligned and run like hell, you won't have much of a problem. Your activities will still be curtailed, but after a little while of being blueballed, the campers will move on.

You're being targeted because you're acting like victims, making it easy for the campers to get what they want: Your sweet impotent rage. You could man up and beat the guys who are dropping on you. It can't be too hard to work out when the enemy are active and likely to drop, and even where they are operating out of (max jump range is a known variable, and the map will tell you average pilots in space). With those two together, you can trap them and kill them all. Set a neutral scout to run through the appropriate system, that will give you their numbers. Experience will give you their ship types. Then you plan your **** out, call an op, send out some bait and when they take it... murder time. Call some friends if you need numbers, you have time to plan. You kick the **** out of them once, they will think better of it. And remember, you don't even need to fight it if you don't think you can win. You can have your scout give you a looksee and if you can take it, you go do it.

Btw... The OP better be talking about titan bridges. Because lord help him if he can't get his **** out his hand long enough to work out how to beat on a black ops bridge gang that doesn't have logistics or any buffer.

At the moment the New Order is doing a campaign against AFK mining, perhaps they should also do a campaign against AFK cloaky camping, as in fact they are the same, both are playing the game but not playing the game. Personally I see a cloaky AFK camper as being the same as a AFK miner, perhaps one of you cloaky AFK camper types could explain to me the difference as I cannot see it?

AFK cloakers do not make isk, or inject minerals into the market, or anything else. They also inherently accept the idea of risk because they're in low/null sec.

Not an issue related to the New Orders goals at all.

How does someone that is AFK extort ISK from the locals? I need to learn how to do that.

Not like CVA undocks without at least 3 to 1 odds, anyway.

Unless you're a cloaky afk camper.

if someone wants to afk cloaky camp a system for days or weeks on end, then that's fine. But there should at least be some risk of that player finding a wreck and a corpse floating in space when they do eventually return to their keyboard.

How do you, as a member of the biggest blob in the history of Eve expect to post such a comment and expect to not look like a complete tool?

Probably more he stay cloacked [sic] AFK more the natives terror increase. So after some time they collapse and start tp pay ramsom to him begging to leave them alone. And all this with him being AFK.

Kinda like PI farming :)

Why? if they are afk as you say then they are causing you no hassles whatsoever......

But...

How does one know if they are AFK? I suupose when one of em ganks you, at least you know they're not AFK.

The real question is - why are all forms of AFK activity frowned upon except for AFK cloaky camping?

I propose that activating a cloak, means the cloaked ship should not show up in local.

"AFK warfare" us undeed a serious issue and a severe threat.

But be carefull to don't understimate the "offline warfare". This people can be far more disruptive.

Ponder about this: you can't see them, they're not in local, they're not even logged in EVE. Maybe they're at work or at school, or with their girlfriend, or simply sleeping. But they're somewhere outside, in the world, plotting against your ships.

How can you guys continue playing serenily with this impending danger?

if null seccers wasnt such risk adverse EDIT: No sexual innuendos - ISD Tyrozan afk cloakers wouldnt bother them imo

All null-sec residents incure [sic] degrees of risk, whatever their activities. The only exceptions are afk cloakers. Why should they be any different?

Is a person docked up at risk? No. Is a person POSed up at risk? No.

A person cloaked and AFK is, for all intents and purposes, the same as docked up or POSed up. All are exhibiting the same amount of activity - that is to say, none.

Please let it sink in a person that is AFK is no threat. None, zero, zilch, nada, nichts, etc.

You don't know if he is a threat or not, because you don't know if he is AFK or not.

What has CCP's approach been when there's an issue like this? Do they change it to make things safer for a larger portion of the playerbase than it makes things less safe for? No, they don't. If CCP were to implement a change that required fuel or cap use for an active cloak so more nullbears could feel safe, that would go against their usual stance/mindset.

So it is okay for it to be totally and 100% safe for the camper? Because that is what you just said. Where is the risk/reward system here? The camper can be rewarded with a dropped industry level for absolutely no risk.

So it is okay for it to be totally and 100% safe for the camper? Because that is what you just said. Where is the risk/reward system here? The camper can be rewarded with a dropped industry level for absolutely no risk.

Why is something over powered i it works only in one situation, and a nerf would only change it for one stuation.

Wait how does the AFK cloaker take your industry level away?

That was said now numerous times, but you guys just ignore that fact.

It is becoming a problem when it is abused to death.

Wait how does the AFK cloaker take your industry level away?

i dunno....

have you ever heard about industry levels?

It's not when they are AFK that they are a threat, anyone gets that. It's that you never know. The other day one of us lost a BS to one of the AFK cloakers in the network they have spread in every system (so moving is little option). He hotdropped a fleet of nine in (suddenly became unAFK), killed the BS, then the fleet cyno'd out. No Risk...and the sleeper went back to being AFK cloaked and waiting (back to AFK after a brief activity).
Once again, in EVE as long as it works for you it's OK...when you are the victim, it's not OK. If you lose your ship it's your own fault, blah, blah...But it gets rather WoWesque when you can take portals to any place you want and warp friends to any place you are with no borders to defend with...think WoW removed alot of the portals come to think of it...

And it's NOT a cloak nerf OPERATIONALLY! A half hour cycle time and fuel consumption, would nerf cloak operational MANAGEMENT! Wouldn't change how it worked tactically at all, just strategically. So address the issue in your comments...cloaking is fine, its the abuse of alts spread acrossed two dozen systems, cloak impunity, and being AFK for long peroids of time to disrupt others on a regional scale. You can still do this with cycle/fuel, but it would suddenly have an operating cost and supply demand! That is the issue, no risk/no cost is wrong!
...and no I am not mad bro!

There ARE ways to deal with cloaky ops in your system. You just haven't figured them out yet.

Is a person docked up at risk? No. Is a person POSed up at risk? No.

A station can be conquered. A POS can be destroyed. An AFK cloaked ship can be...

To be honest I'm not on one side or the other, in general. Mining would be more boring without them but I do think there could be improvements to the system. Just pointing out that AFK cloaked ships are safer than players docked or in a POS.

A station can be captured...and it takes several days of timers and prep.

A POS can be destroyed, but again takes several timers.

Seriously people, lay down traps and bait out your targets. I can't believe the show of incompetence.

For example : http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=16535074

Exactly. Also they deserved it for god awful bomber fits.

You don't know if he is a threat or not, because you don't know if he is AFK or not.
And you also don't know how big of a threat he can be.
When he decides to attack, he can field anything he wants, from a few SB's and Recons up to a few hundred Black Ops and even capitals and supers.
That's why I think something must be done.
Not because of the threat, but because it is unpredictable as hell and a very important factor of Eve, Risk vs Reward, cannot be outweighed properly. While he can do that very well by spying for an infinite amount of time without any risk.

That is why I made the suggestion to limit (covert) cynos in Mass.

Getting rid of local would be a big improvement.

How about introducing scanner probes that can find cloaked ships ? If it takes say 5-10 min to find the exact position any non afk player can easily spot them and switch position.

Excellent point, and that GÇÿimprovementGÇÖ can be realised without CCP having to do anything to change nullsec dynamics.

There are already approximately 2,500 solar systems where this is currently the setup. They start at J100001 and work their way up to J235953, and collectively they represent a wonderful and challenging niche of the eve cosmos. In J123456 you can have a thousand afk cloaky folk and never be any the wiser, unless they return to their keyboard, become active, and decloak to do something.

Excellent point, and that GÇÿimprovementGÇÖ can be realised without CCP having to do anything to change nullsec dynamics.

There are already approximately 2,500 solar systems where this is currently the setup. They start at J100001 and work their way up to J235953, and collectively they represent a wonderful and challenging niche of the eve cosmos. In J123456 you can have a thousand afk cloaky folk and never be any the wiser, unless they return to their keyboard, become active, and decloak to do something.

I approve of this message. I don't know why all the people who want to take themselves out of local don't just hunt in wormholes. There are plenty of them, not hard to find. Oh wait, then you can't just jump all your buddies on some unsuspecting guy who is trying to make some iskies. They would have to leave the safety of their sov system to go out into the unknown and some baddies might be waiting on them :(.

I personally dont even like hot dropping. With the exception of the HK, you have everyone else sitting waiting to bridge and that sucks. Also I don't mind local existing. But if people whine and whine about afk cloaking, then remove local so they cant instill that fear in you that makes you dock up.

To be fair, I don't mind the idea of afk cloaky if there was a mechanic to counter them outside the time they light a covert cyno up.

Providence has been perma-camped for the last 3-4 months now by THORN's afk botting team, MagicAcid and Replicator (and co.). At this moment, there are 60+ characters just being made to mine ice with retrievers who are in NPC corps (Replicator Peta31-80). These guys fund Replicator0001-42 who stay afk cloaked with probes and covert-cyno ready to pounce idiots that decide to take the risk.

Killing replicator is only a small loss and returns with another covert ops ships to continue camping the system. We can't kill it in the meantime and we don't have the numbers to combat a much larger alliance such as THORN.

The issue is the inability to hunt afk cloakies where they log in just after dt and sit there till the next dt in a concentrated and limited area such Providence.

But lets face reality, CCP wouldn't lift a finger unless goons cry foul.

To be fair, I don't mind the idea of afk cloaky if there was a mechanic to counter them outside the time they light a covert cyno up.

Providence has been perma-camped for the last 3-4 months now by THORN's afk botting team, MagicAcid and Replicator (and co.). At this moment, there are 60+ characters just being made to mine ice with retrievers who are in NPC corps (Replicator Peta31-80). These guys fund Replicator 001-42 who stay afk cloaked with probes and covert-cyno ready to pounce idiots that decide to take the risk.

Killing replicator is only a small loss and returns with another covert ops ships to continue camping the system. We can't kill it in the meantime and we don't have the numbers to combat a much larger alliance such as THORN.

The issue is the inability to hunt afk cloakies where they log in just after dt and sit there till the next dt in a concentrated and limited area such Providence.

But lets face reality, CCP wouldn't lift a finger unless goons cry foul.

Eve's most infamous cloaky-camping botter finally came out to fight the other day, so we tore him a new ass.

Au Revoir Replicator

Bring enough guys?