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Arturo Min
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.02.12 06:05:00 -
[1] - Quote
i know its an old subject, but im kinda sick of fighting an enemy that cant be countered!
I'd just like to fight for my system... not be afk camped so that risk outwieghs rewards for undocking, for months / years?
you want to shut industry down in a system it shouldnt be as easy as putting one cyno ship in it and cynoing once a day!
so my issue is i'd like to fight... but there is nothing to fight, while everyone in the alliance is playing other games because they cant do anything in EVE.
CCP wonders why nobody wants to come to null, there is no means to defend your territiory!
i know this is going to get rage from all those people who make a living out of cyno camping alliance's in null.... and every one of their alts... kinda sucks people with 10-30 alts count as 10-30 active players! |
Vas Eldryn
Flying While Intoxicated
Apocalypse Now.
4
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Posted - 2013.02.12 08:02:00 -
[2] - Quote
couldn't have said it better,
bring the fight... AFK warfare why people are staying out of null |
Savlena Torilles
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.02.12 08:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
Arturo Min wrote:i know its an old subject, but im kinda sick of fighting an enemy that cant be countered!
I'd just like to fight for my system... not be afk camped so that risk outwieghs rewards for undocking, for months / years?
you want to shut industry down in a system it shouldnt be as easy as putting one cyno ship in it and cynoing once a day!
so my issue is i'd like to fight... but there is nothing to fight, while everyone in the alliance is playing other games because they cant do anything in EVE.
CCP wonders why nobody wants to come to null, there is no means to defend your territiory!
i know this is going to get rage from all those people who make a living out of cyno camping alliance's in null.... and every one of their alts... kinda sucks people with 10-30 alts count as 10-30 active players!
There is one very simple counter to this, stay aligned. Something uncloaks, warp. Sadly this is the best way to counter this, im not a fan of AFK cloakers but one just have to adapt. |
Arturo Min
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 08:28:00 -
[4] - Quote
Savlena Torilles wrote:Arturo Min wrote:i know its an old subject, but im kinda sick of fighting an enemy that cant be countered!
I'd just like to fight for my system... not be afk camped so that risk outwieghs rewards for undocking, for months / years?
you want to shut industry down in a system it shouldnt be as easy as putting one cyno ship in it and cynoing once a day!
so my issue is i'd like to fight... but there is nothing to fight, while everyone in the alliance is playing other games because they cant do anything in EVE.
CCP wonders why nobody wants to come to null, there is no means to defend your territiory!
i know this is going to get rage from all those people who make a living out of cyno camping alliance's in null.... and every one of their alts... kinda sucks people with 10-30 alts count as 10-30 active players! There is one very simple counter to this, stay aligned. Something uncloaks, warp. Sadly this is the best way to counter this, im not a fan of AFK cloakers but one just have to adapt.
thats not a realistic counter for building industry... once you have industry 1 every cyno camper in the region is in your system! |
Typherian
Tri-gun
C0NVICTED
35
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Posted - 2013.02.12 08:53:00 -
[5] - Quote
If you want to be safe go back to highsec. AFK cloaking is one of the only counters to the perfect intel tool that is local. Btw I don't AFK camp and haven't bothered killing ratters in a long while. There isn't any sport in it. That said I still support the practice 100% for those who enjoy it. |
Arturo Min
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 09:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
Typherian wrote:If you want to be safe go back to highsec. AFK cloaking is one of the only counters to the perfect intel tool that is local. Btw I don't AFK camp and haven't bothered killing ratters in a long while. There isn't any sport in it. That said I still support the practice 100% for those who enjoy it.
thats the problem, this is the mechanic is keeping people out of null... and yes the entire system sucks, maybe local can be modified to give agressors an edge for surprise attacks
but camping for months / years?
just plain wrong! |
Vas Eldryn
Flying While Intoxicated
Apocalypse Now.
4
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Posted - 2013.02.12 09:12:00 -
[7] - Quote
Local is half the problem in null, completely agree!
but system security has to be a consideration as well, otherwise no one but pvpers will go to null,
a delay in people showing in system sounds better then a permacamp.... i guess, got to consider risk vs reward?
nobody is going to mine ABC's if their is a good chance of losing their ship! |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Saints Amongst Sinners
53
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Posted - 2013.02.12 11:24:00 -
[8] - Quote
Local is not the issue, and the AFK cloaky campers just make that point in every AFK thread that there is, its to change the subject away from their inability to actually kill anyone. The only change I would make is that they show in local when they actually are in system. At the moment they show in local and there is a delay before they are in system and can warp.
In terms of the people camping your system, have a good look at them, when did they change corps, when did they get on kills etc., with that you may be able to work out when they are actually active. Try to link them to hot droppers, it is important to find out who is their muscle and if you have that you should be able to work out when they are active.
Part of the battle is to continue to operate regardless, just go and buy about 10 Ventures and mine in system, wouldn't that be better then moaning about it? You mine low level ore in High Sec and high level ores in 0.0, use Ventures and industrials to grab the ore and annoy the hell out of them. So you lose a couple of cheap ships, so what!!!!
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Wey'oun
Shadows Of The Federation
Drunk 'n' Disorderly
69
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Posted - 2013.02.12 12:18:00 -
[9] - Quote
Arturo Min wrote:Typherian wrote:If you want to be safe go back to highsec. AFK cloaking is one of the only counters to the perfect intel tool that is local. Btw I don't AFK camp and haven't bothered killing ratters in a long while. There isn't any sport in it. That said I still support the practice 100% for those who enjoy it. thats the problem, this is the mechanic is keeping people out of null... and yes the entire system sucks, maybe local can be modified to give agressors an edge for surprise attacks but camping for months / years? just plain wrong!
so now you sugguest delayed local or somthing along those lines? you realise that would be far worse for you? my alt is maxed skilled probing toon with covops 5, all astrometrics skills to 5, full implant set and not to toot my own horn too much but im fekkin good at it too. even if local was delayed by small amount of time, say 30 seconds?, id be on you in that time in any system of 30AU or less across. and not much longer after 30 seconds in a larger system.
What is worse, a system where you know local is not clear and can take actions to avoid it (even if that action is simply dont rat), or a system where you rat happily and suddenly cyno up next to u and local updates a few seconds later and shows you that pesky red. so now you have gone from simply not being able to rat comfortably to losing ur shiney 'insert carebare ship here'. |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Saints Amongst Sinners
53
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 12:29:00 -
[10] - Quote
Wey'oun is spot on, he is the type that I have respect for, they don't whine about local, they know the weakness of local based intel they have the skills to get you and don't need to have it made easy like the gank bears with delayed local, to be blunt it will be an honor to get taken out by this type of player, not those that want it so easy that they need a 30 second delay on local to get on you. |
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Machiavelli's Nemesis
Angry Mustellid
Iron Oxide.
86
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Posted - 2013.02.12 12:47:00 -
[11] - Quote
Arturo Min wrote:i know its an old subject, but im kinda sick of fighting an enemy that cant be countered!
I'd just like to fight for my system... not be afk camped so that risk outwieghs rewards for undocking, for months / years?
PvPers aren't scared of afk cloakers, what you actually mean is "WAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH I JUST WANT TO RAT IN PEACE WHY CAN'T THE BAD MAN LEAVE ME ALONE? LEAVE RATTERS ALONE!!!"
Dracvlad wrote:Local is not the issue, and the AFK cloaky campers just make that point in every AFK thread that there is, its to change the subject away from their inability to actually kill anyone.
If they are unable to kill anyone, why are you weeping about them?
Surely if they aren't a threat you can just rat away in perfect nullbeary safety without concern.
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Saints Amongst Sinners
53
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Posted - 2013.02.12 12:57:00 -
[12] - Quote
Machiavelli's Nemesis wrote:Arturo Min wrote:i know its an old subject, but im kinda sick of fighting an enemy that cant be countered!
I'd just like to fight for my system... not be afk camped so that risk outwieghs rewards for undocking, for months / years? PvPers aren't scared of afk cloakers, what you actually mean is "WAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH I JUST WANT TO RAT IN PEACE WHY CAN'T THE BAD MAN LEAVE ME ALONE? LEAVE RATTERS ALONE!!!" Dracvlad wrote:Local is not the issue, and the AFK cloaky campers just make that point in every AFK thread that there is, its to change the subject away from their inability to actually kill anyone. If they are unable to kill anyone, why are you weeping about them? Surely if they aren't a threat you can just rat away in perfect nullbeary safety without concern.
Thats a laugh, me weeping, you're reading and comprehension skills need some work on them, it was the OP who was weeping! I have operated with cloaky "AFK" campers in system, its all a matter of risk... |
Machiavelli's Nemesis
Angry Mustellid
Iron Oxide.
86
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Posted - 2013.02.12 13:12:00 -
[13] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:you're reading and comprehension skills need some work on them
OK, let's start with the basics.
English is a non-inflected indo-european language...
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HazeInADaze
L'Avant Garde
Happy Endings
28
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Posted - 2013.02.12 14:23:00 -
[14] - Quote
There was a time when systems didn't have upgrades. There was a time when miners had to work in belts, and ratting was done in belts. The lack of concentrated risk opportunities spread out null bears and allowed bear hunters plenty of opportunity to catch targets in many systems. Now bears ball up in dead end constellations, rat and mine in plexes, and enjoy a level of income and security unimaginable a few years ago.
So remove I hubs. Remove plex spam. Drive bears back to the belts where awoxing and afking aren't the only hunting methods and all your problems will be solved! Start the petition! |
Sean Parisi
Fugutive Task Force
178
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Posted - 2013.02.12 14:31:00 -
[15] - Quote
Force projection issue. Not a cloaking issue. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings
Situation: Normal
1136
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 15:28:00 -
[16] - Quote
I've contacted the relevent authorities to help you out.
Seriously, I didn't know that Native freshfood held SOV.
There are plenty of good corps and alliances that actually deal with AFK cloakers without running and hiding. And when they are successfull the AFK cloakers move to another area with easier targets.
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Thur Barbek
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
31
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Posted - 2013.02.12 15:40:00 -
[17] - Quote
Sean Parisi wrote:Force projection issue. Not a cloaking issue.
Agreed. Wouldn't be a problem if that one red cloaky didn't represent 30+ people with his cyno. |
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
455
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 17:59:00 -
[18] - Quote
Thur Barbek wrote:Sean Parisi wrote:Force projection issue. Not a cloaking issue. Agreed. Wouldn't be a problem if that one red cloaky didn't represent 30+ people with his cyno.
Yes, what business does anyone have starting a fight in null sec? And hot dropping a ratter? Well that is just not fair!!
/sarcasm off
WTF Dude, you are in Null. Null is no-mans land. it is not safe. OMG there is an AFK cloaker in system, there is a slight chance you will lose your ratting ship. The benefits of living in null are off set by the risks. "Do not fly what you can not afford to lose". Everyone says it, but very few actually understand it.
If you are flying a ship you can afford to lose, then you CAN afford to lose it. What this means is if you get caught and killed, it does not really matter as the loss is not a big deal.
When there is an AFK cloaker in your system, yes there is a chance they will jump you, there is a chance they may have a cyno to hot drop you, there is even a chance they might successfully kill you if they time it right.
If a small chance of getting killed is enough to keep you from undocking, then you must be undocking in a ship you can not afford to lose. If you could afford to lose it then the small risk presented by an afk cloakers would be out weighted by the benefits of what you would gain while ratting.
When I lived in Null I mined with unknowns and even red afkers in local, sure I lost a few ships, but mostly they were actually afk and I mined in peace. I never lost a ratting ship. The mining ships I did lose did not stop me from mining. It is null sec, you need to accept that you will lose the occasional ship, or pack up and go back to high sec. Even in high sec you are not 100% safe from getting ganked, in fact far from it. In null sec you will lose ships, that is a fact of null sec life. Deal with it and carry on despite the risks. Other wise you do not have what it takes to make it in null sec.
Besides, any ship that can jump to that cyno is worth far more than your ratting ship. The best deterrent is to bait them a few times. get them to hot drop you, then have a friendly fleet ready to jump in and catch the caps they just hot dropped. If they lose a cap fleet hot dropping a ratter, they will think twice about making the same mistake again. Just remember they are taking a bigger risk than you are. There is nothing stopping your corp from having a AFK cyno ship in your own ratting system to counter any hot dropped fleet that comes after anyone there ratting.
nobody who is afraid of PVP has any business living in NULL. In PVP there is always someone on the losing side. You need to accept that sometimes it will be you. |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
2056
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 18:33:00 -
[19] - Quote
Arturo Min wrote:i know its an old subject, but im kinda sick of fighting an enemy that cant be countered!
I'd just like to fight for my bots... not be afk camped so that risk outwieghs rewards for botting, for months / years?
you want to shut botting down in a system it shouldnt be as easy as putting one cyno ship in it and cynoing once a day!
so my issue is i'd like to bot... but i cant because the bots see someone in local.
CCP wonders why nobody wants to bot, there is no means to defend your bots!
i know this is going to get rage from all those people who make a living out of AFK cloaky camping botting systems.... and every one of their alts... kinda sucks when I depend on my bots to make isk!
Fixed that for the OP.
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
271
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 18:42:00 -
[20] - Quote
"AFK warfare" us undeed a serious issue and a severe threat.
But be carefull to don't understimate the "offline warfare". This people can be far more disruptive.
Ponder about this: you can't see them, they're not in local, they're not even logged in EVE. Maybe they're at work or at school, or with their girlfriend, or simply sleeping. But they're somewhere outside, in the world, plotting against your ships.
How can you guys continue playing serenily with this impending danger?
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AFK Cloaker
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
87
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Posted - 2013.02.12 18:50:00 -
[21] - Quote
. |
Machiavelli's Nemesis
Angry Mustellid
Iron Oxide.
87
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 19:31:00 -
[22] - Quote
Thread is now complete :) |
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
Caldari State Capturing
201
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 21:06:00 -
[23] - Quote
Arturo Min wrote:i know its an old subject, but im kinda sick of fighting an enemy that cant be countered!
I'd just like to fight for my system... not be afk camped so that risk outwieghs rewards for undocking, for months / years?
you want to shut industry down in a system it shouldnt be as easy as putting one cyno ship in it and cynoing once a day!
so my issue is i'd like to fight... but there is nothing to fight, while everyone in the alliance is playing other games because they cant do anything in EVE.
CCP wonders why nobody wants to come to null, there is no means to defend your territiory!
i know this is going to get rage from all those people who make a living out of cyno camping alliance's in null.... and every one of their alts... kinda sucks people with 10-30 alts count as 10-30 active players!
Wow - someone's complaining about AFK cloaking. I never thought I'd see the day.
Everyone knows cloaks are getting changed the same day they remove local from null. 
But I still like these 'Im scared of the guy who is afk so I stay docked' threads:
Notice how the people in high sec never complain.
Notice how the people in low sec never complain.
But - the big bad scary null sec people cry like little girls.
There is a very simple solution to this that would make you happy and not require cloaks to be changed.
Hint:
The 1st word of my response is the solution to your problem.
Fix this **** See Sea Pea. |
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
456
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 21:26:00 -
[24] - Quote
IbanezLaney wrote:Arturo Min wrote:i know its an old subject, but im kinda sick of fighting an enemy that cant be countered!
I'd just like to fight for my system... not be afk camped so that risk outwieghs rewards for undocking, for months / years?
you want to shut industry down in a system it shouldnt be as easy as putting one cyno ship in it and cynoing once a day!
so my issue is i'd like to fight... but there is nothing to fight, while everyone in the alliance is playing other games because they cant do anything in EVE.
CCP wonders why nobody wants to come to null, there is no means to defend your territiory!
i know this is going to get rage from all those people who make a living out of cyno camping alliance's in null.... and every one of their alts... kinda sucks people with 10-30 alts count as 10-30 active players! Wow - someone's complaining about AFK cloaking. I never thought I'd see the day. Everyone knows cloaks are getting changed the same day they remove local from null. But I still like these 'Im scared of the guy who is afk so I stay docked' threads: Notice how the people in high sec never complain. Notice how the people in low sec never complain. But - the big bad scary null sec people cry like little girls. There is a very simple solution to this that would make you happy and not require cloaks to be changed. Hint: The 1st word of my response is the solution to your problem.
Well you got most of it right.
Only thing is it is not the big bad null sec players that are crying. it is the player who wanna be big bad null secers but are actually null bears that are crying.
Living in NULL sec does not make you tough or a good PVPer.
Living in NULL sec and not caring if you get blown up is the key.
Living in NULL sec and actually fighting even if you are going to lose, rather than hiding in a station or POS.
That is what will make you a big bad null secer. because actually fighting rather than hiding, no matter how bad you are at PVP, you will get better, and eventually not suck. That is when you will truly know what it means to be a big bad NULL secer. You will have no fear, and see those afk cloakers not as a threat, but as a potential killmail. Only then will your training be complete. |
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
Caldari State Capturing
203
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 22:05:00 -
[25] - Quote
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:IbanezLaney wrote:Arturo Min wrote:i know its an old subject, but im kinda sick of fighting an enemy that cant be countered!
I'd just like to fight for my system... not be afk camped so that risk outwieghs rewards for undocking, for months / years?
you want to shut industry down in a system it shouldnt be as easy as putting one cyno ship in it and cynoing once a day!
so my issue is i'd like to fight... but there is nothing to fight, while everyone in the alliance is playing other games because they cant do anything in EVE.
CCP wonders why nobody wants to come to null, there is no means to defend your territiory!
i know this is going to get rage from all those people who make a living out of cyno camping alliance's in null.... and every one of their alts... kinda sucks people with 10-30 alts count as 10-30 active players! Wow - someone's complaining about AFK cloaking. I never thought I'd see the day. Everyone knows cloaks are getting changed the same day they remove local from null. But I still like these 'Im scared of the guy who is afk so I stay docked' threads: Notice how the people in high sec never complain. Notice how the people in low sec never complain. But - the big bad scary null sec people cry like little girls. There is a very simple solution to this that would make you happy and not require cloaks to be changed. Hint: The 1st word of my response is the solution to your problem. Well you got most of it right. Only thing is it is not the big bad null sec players that are crying. it is the player who wanna be big bad null secers but are actually null bears that are crying. Living in NULL sec does not make you tough or a good PVPer. Living in NULL sec and not caring if you get blown up is the key. Living in NULL sec and actually fighting even if you are going to lose, rather than hiding in a station or POS. That is what will make you a big bad null secer. because actually fighting rather than hiding, no matter how bad you are at PVP, you will get better, and eventually not suck. That is when you will truly know what it means to be a big bad NULL secer. You will have no fear, and see those afk cloakers not as a threat, but as a potential killmail. Only then will your training be complete.
Good point.
Fix this **** See Sea Pea. |
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
978
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 08:52:00 -
[26] - Quote
Collecting nullbear tears in the millionth "waaah a single cloaked neutral prevents our entire system from being able to do anything" thread
Funny how wormhole dwellers can manage without even knowing if a cloaked ship is in their system |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Saints Amongst Sinners
54
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Posted - 2013.02.13 15:49:00 -
[27] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:Collecting nullbear tears in the millionth "waaah a single cloaked neutral prevents our entire system from being able to do anything" thread
Funny how wormhole dwellers can manage without even knowing if a cloaked ship is in their system
Funny that , must be something to do with the inability to jump to a lit cyno in WH space, might that be the reason, engage the grey matter and you might just get there! |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings
Situation: Normal
1140
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 16:17:00 -
[28] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:Collecting nullbear tears in the millionth "waaah a single cloaked neutral prevents our entire system from being able to do anything" thread
Funny how wormhole dwellers can manage without even knowing if a cloaked ship is in their system Funny that , must be something to do with the inability to jump to a lit cyno in WH space, might that be the reason, engage the grey matter and you might just get there!
Flip side is you don't need the cyno in WH space. You can easily hide an entire fleet inside the system as local doesn't give you away. |
March rabbit
player corp n1
534
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 16:30:00 -
[29] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:Dracvlad wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:Collecting nullbear tears in the millionth "waaah a single cloaked neutral prevents our entire system from being able to do anything" thread
Funny how wormhole dwellers can manage without even knowing if a cloaked ship is in their system Funny that , must be something to do with the inability to jump to a lit cyno in WH space, might that be the reason, engage the grey matter and you might just get there! Flip side is you don't need the cyno in WH space. You can easily hide an entire fleet inside the system as local doesn't give you away.
you only can hide something you already got there.
I'm new here but i've never heard about 100 person fleets in WH. Did i miss something? Is it connected to mass limit of WH and absense of persisting connections?  |
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
978
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 16:50:00 -
[30] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Derath Ellecon wrote:Dracvlad wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:Collecting nullbear tears in the millionth "waaah a single cloaked neutral prevents our entire system from being able to do anything" thread
Funny how wormhole dwellers can manage without even knowing if a cloaked ship is in their system Funny that , must be something to do with the inability to jump to a lit cyno in WH space, might that be the reason, engage the grey matter and you might just get there! Flip side is you don't need the cyno in WH space. You can easily hide an entire fleet inside the system as local doesn't give you away. you only can hide something you already got there. I'm new here but i've never heard about 100 person fleets in WH. Did i miss something? Is it connected to mass limit of WH and absense of persisting connections?
What difference does it make how big the fleet is, pretty much all of these threads pop up as a result of some lone bear getting attacked, or a tiny few (1-5) people getting "camped" in their system by the big bad scary cwoaker - it's not big fleets with hundreds of people that is the issue, since a small fleet can just as easily kill them, it's purely the fact that a fleet can appear out of nowhere without local giving them a huge ridiculous infallible warning.
And the risk of fleets materialising out of nowhere is just as big in wormholes, but that doesn't seem to bother us
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