Read post #16 why escorts are pointless.



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You know as well as I do it was a lucky kill (or stupid pilots). I've chased SB fleets that have dropped all around space after they did a bombing run and split up. They go doggoe and just wait it out.

With 20 or so ratters in system and maybe a few miners you simply cannot escort against bombers before they do a kill because you do NOT know where they're gonna drop.

Sure you might get them afterwards, if they're stupid enough to try and break out immediately or forget to cloak up.

Well done, you managed to prove there are two fail SB pilots.... thats all.

Either that or they disconnected/lagged out. (since deliberatly forcing them to lag out is an exploit this isn't a valid tactic)

You have successfully proved nothing.... zero, zip, nada.

Either come back with something constructive or please just leave. You've made yourself look bad enough for one day ;)

lol. They were NOT AFK cloakers.

Who said I do? I'm normally the one doing the AFK cloaking thanks.
I also don't really participate in activities where AFK cloaking is going to affect me. I have many other ways to generate ISK.

For a Goon, they probably aren't that much of a problem either since if they aren't dumb, you can just move to another system.
Try thinking of someone OTHER than yourself for a change.

Now what about alliances that only have 2-3 systems? One player can place massive threat on all their systems in one go.... For virtually no effort or risk, vs a massive amount of effort to TRY to find and destroy/bait them or guarding all your ratters to try and defend against them.

Please try showing how that is in ANY WAY balanced. Quite simply it isn't.

Even with the ideas suggested for the de-cloak pulse every hour, a AFK cloaker can still lock down a system for a while for the cheap cheap price of 35mil (one SB), while the victim alliance is likely to have lost 100mil + in income they didn't get during the same period.

May be. But for you to catch 2 SB's in a Raven suggests they had nfi what they were doing.

I do agree though that once they are NOT AFK, you've got a chance. One of my most memorable kills was getting a Rapier to agress on a scramming blockade runner - it was a cheap kill but funny as hell

And herein is the OP's point - it's the AFK cloaking that's the issue, not the cloaking.....

You're kidding right?

So if you were ratting in a PvE Tengu worth 100's of millions or a fleet of Hulks worth 100's of millions you'd be happy to accept the threat of a hotdrop at ANY tme?

You have absolutely no idea when - or if in all fairness - a drop could occur. You could put a 100 escorts in system and have every ratter/miner on watch list. By the time cyno is lit, drop made and bombs launched the escorts are only half way through warp to the screaming victim. And that's IF you're on the ball ready for it.

AFK cloakies kill systems. They know that - it's why it's done.

Active players wont be decloaked without warning with my plan. They have time to go to safespot and come back generating a new random point to be uncloaked. It doesn't seriously affect them. It just removes the incentive to go AFK.

That's one of the failed arguments and i agree with you.

Want to hear another failed argument from the other side? They want cloaked ships to remain 100% detection proof, but are also unable to explain how that is balanced with the rest of the game.

If they can't do anything, why are you out there in the first place?

Log off? Same goal achieved, but you're now 100% safe.

But you can't stalk the foolish while you're cloaked either, since a cloaked ship can't do anything....

oh wait.

So if you can't do anything, log off.

Sweet ninja edit ^^

So according to you, now, you can do something while cloaked

So the cloak is the only profession in this game that can be perfomed with absolute safety instead of just very-high safety? That seems right to you?

I cannot find you no matter how skilled i am, or what tools i employ. As long as you are cloaked, you are safe from me. If you cannot be found and uncloaked by an action that i start and i perform, you are safer then you should be.

I don't care that she can't do anything to me while cloaked directly. I care that what she can do to me when uncloaked, could only be done by doing something while previoulsy cloaked. So whatever she does while uncloaked is inherently dependant upon things she does while cloaked. Therefore, she can do something while cloaked.

When cloaked i run no risk. Its an issue.

Removing local will wreck the game and is off topic. We ought to keep discussing ways to fix this issue without CCP having to pull out a huge nerfbat that will severely impact active cloaking. I have already stated that I will support the nerfbat over nothing but I would rather people here calmly discuss other better ideas first.

Did we use the line "ignorance is bliss" already? Yes I am sure we did. It is the definitive solution for a select few - unfortunately.

And yes. WH's get on fine without local. No dispute. But it works why?

Because a cloaky MUST reveal themselves to find me - AND CCP made this easier because it was a problem prior.

End of story.

Sleeper sites don't require probes to locate. Think of them as the wormhole version of sanctums. In holes, you need to probe gravs, mags, radars, ladars and more holes, but not the combat sites.

Read a few pages back about the AFK cloaker in WH sites. AFK cloaking is not just a nullsec issue so the remove local stuff is off topic.

This topic needs to focus on the various ideas published that can reasonably deal with the issue of the risk free incentive to walk away from the keyboard while not swinging a heavy nerfbat that would cause active cloakers to randomly decloak or manage a fuel bay in hostile territory.

No you will just suddenly find the enemy uncloaking in perfect range of you for a free gank or hotdrop with no warning.

Still claim removing local will fix AFK cloaking?

Lets focus on serious solutions please and not off topic stuff about nullsec.

Yes that person easily becomes active after afk cloaking with obviously no warning. Because without local you cant tell if someone has logged off left or whatever.

So the idea is to not remove or delay local but to add risk to those who are walking away or otherwise not paying attention to the client.

In retrospect I think I ought to have made a pictorial post explaining my probe idea. If it was in images it might be easier to understand that I do not want to seriously impact active cloaking. I think I will have to log into Sisi and fire up the GIMP and do that.

http://www.fatal-ascension.com/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=48204

What's that? A carebear ship defending itself? Gee thought that wasn't possible. Now kindly explain why AFK cloakies are a problem again? Seems to me your argument (as usual) boils down to "AFK cloakies are a problem for me"

Yes, if you do it right, as I've suggested many times in this thread and apparently must again. So, here we go...

1. When a ship cloaks, it gets removed from local. The other ships in the system cannot see it, but they can see each other and all non-cloaked ships as they do now.

2. When a ship cloaks, it loses access to local. Now it cannot use local as an intel-gathering tool, and, just like in wormholes, the cloaked vessel would need to actively gather intel through use of probes, dscan, or simply flying somewhere and looking.

3. When a ship uncloaks, there's a delay in being able to lite off a cyno of, say, 15 to 30 seconds. This prevents the imbalance of the invisible pilot being able to hot drop a fleet on someone's head.

* Possible exception to 3... allow Black Ops ships to be able to lite a cyno with no delay after decloaking. They could use a little love.

So, here you go. Cloaks act as true cloaks and are balanced by requiring the active gathering of intel and minimizing (or removing) the instant hot-drop risk a totally unknown vessel would pose. Intel for a covops vessel becomes an active endeavour instead of simply scrolling through local. The "afk cloak" issue goes completely away and null space still retains the risk of null space. Finally, and most important to me personally, by not breaking cloaks you're not breaking a very important aspect of wormhole life that requires cloaks to indeed be able to remain unknown, unseen and undetectable.

So your solution is to have a massive cap fleet sitting on hold ready to counter ONE AFK CLOAKER..... please tell me how that is in any way balanced?

Why? Is there any other reason other than "it's an inconvenience for me?"

could not say it better my self

comon tippa there are 29 pages of worthy arguments... you cant just disreguard all of them can you?... well you can "choose" too but youare better then that ... right

cloaking is a counter to local... afk cloaking is an exploitation of a game mechanic to make local obsolete...

the first is awesome the second is lame duck

hmm you have somewhat convinced me... ok so once there is this new "intel tool" is out we can then nerf akf cloaking to a time based mechanic or fuel based?