... and i thought Sreegs had declared the time of mass bannings to be gone for good - in favor of his more systematic & steady approach.

Or do you mean to imply that CCP Sreegs might not be entirely truthful with us?

that's a shocking accusation to make.

I would like to see much more bot tiers, but oh well.
Anyway, as per using cache files for eve central or so, I would love to pull those mineral and module prices via API from CCP...problem is its not possible yet and I personally dont feel like typing 500-1000 numbers in my spreadsheets every day to see whats worth building manually.

From how understood it, John had a tool to read the cache of market orders, calculate the new price and show this information inside the IGB. So all he had to do was: copy-paste the values into his market orders. Last time I checked, reading the cache, calculating values in a 3rd party tool and doing some copy paste was not a banable offense. So CCP changed their mind in a hindsight and made it punishable.

I got this impression from here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2601144#post2601144

However, I could be misinformed. John may have used more advanced automation to do even less work by himself (i.e. changing the orders fully automatically). I wouldn't know.

I don't mind losing John as a presumably valuable player, I don't mind E-Uni losing isk they hadn't earned, I don't mind macro users being banned - but I do mind if rules are applied with double standards. If that was the case here, I don't know.

It seems to me like CCP Sreegs has provided in this thread most of the information that Kelduum asked for in the first place, and that if this information had been exchanged in the first place, none of this would have been brought up in the forums.

I doubt you have proof for this claim, but it's ok. The story sounds like he was indeed using a bot and got what he deserved.

A private convo between CCP and Kelduum (who was involved directly) isn't the masses. This issue has now been brought to the masses because this very basic and simple information wasn't conveyed in the first place. It's unnecessary, pure and simple.

What scares me here is that it really looks like a player can 1) question a the legality of an action publicly, 2) get an official ccp response saying its ok, 3) do said action, and 4) get banhammered by CCP Screegs who doesn't give a **** what the rest of the company thinks, then laughed at and mocked when you question it.

That's a pretty crappy way to do business.

Just for the record, dear CCP Sreegs, I like what you have done and that you take your time to come onto the forum and talk to us. It is very kind of you and one does not get to see this often. So thank you for doing this!

I believe if CCP had a perfect track record, most pilots would not be here asking for proof of the botting allegations.
(As the methods I've read about being used by John were not in fact 'botting' by definition, but were using quick copy and pasting at its best.)

Transparency is paramount, the now removed ISK means nothing in light of possible recurring corruption, and selective oversight after the matter is brought in to question.

I don't care about eve-uni, in fact i find it funny that they've been screwed in all of this. But you need to stop licking long enough to actually read what Screegs is saying, then you might be a little concerned too.

What's "BC" tool? I always used EvE Meep and another very famous manufacturing Excel File. I am always open to learn more

Has anyone asked how this guy botted over 300 billion ISK before CCP caught on to what he was doing? Does the bot detector need some work, or was it just that he was sufficiently subtle in his botting that it took that long for CCP Sreegs's team to be sure it was actually a bot?

Ah, thank you. I used to use EvE HQ from the same web site, it had an unofficial sweet T2 invention plug in that made life so easy. But then the plug in stopped being updated

There, i just repeated it.

questions

I think we should be told exactly how he was botting, so we know not to do the same and get punished for it. Because if there's some truth to the story "John" didn't know he was botting, and if that's true it would be nice for others to know about this to avoid it.

Which I believe CCP Sreegs has addressed in this thread, and I think if that had just been communicated to Kelduum in private he wouldn't have taken this public at all.
I like this game and I like most things CCP has done with it recently, but I think most people will agree with me that communication is not their strongest side.

How do you know that? Have you read CCP's responses to his petitions?
All we know is that CCP Sreegs says he was told and Kelduum says he wasn't.

Seems like Eve Uni is all about Eve Uni and sod everyone else, the changes that affected them weren't unique to them, with the exception of the public channel. API bugs, war dec bugs, title bugs etc affect everybody not just them.



ISBoxer is allowed as long as there is someone at the keyboard physically playing the game. It's merely a framework for multiboxing, however it can be used in conjunction with other software as the basis for bots, that's when it becomes not ok to use.

Kelduum Revaan:

The public channel was done without our knowledge or consent - apparently someone within CCP decided that we should be listed in the help channels, with all the spam and so on that comes with it, and for a time, we even had no moderator access to the channel

Your CSM choice proved to be unable to be worth a public position by being weak enough to:

1) Get drunk and then talk public statements. Not even knowing how much alcohol he could bear before going nuts.

2) Treaten somebody in RL, which for now is somewhat worse than cheating in a game.

3) Act all high and mighty about it till he got "CCP nuked" into obliivion and peer pressure forced to public excuses and resignation.


This is also why elections and indirect democracy became a farce over time: influential / rich / with a clapping mob people get zerg-voted into positions of power and then do disasters.

OK, ban everyone then, everyone's guilty, no proof that they're not! He's botting and HE's botting and so is she!

Ban everyone who types at more than 120 WPM because this is clearly a bot, despite the world record being 216! Nope, the average is around 60ish. Anyone too much faster than than is CLEARLY a botter.

They should have taken that money away if they had such evidence in the first place rather than allowing him to keep it at all to give it to someone else.

But not before it did significant damage.

He didn't like the answer because it seems the only decided it was illegal AFTER Kelduum asked about it. The apparent misconduct is that they confiscated ISK they had no original intention of confiscating only because someone asked about it. Clearly it was confiscated because of the way in which it was amassed. That isn't in question. What is in question is the fact that it wasn't confiscated at the time when it should have been, thus implying that an original determination that it WASN'T illegally obtained was made, and this determination was altered only as a result of Kelduum asking about it.

I'm not saying that's what actually happened, but it does sound like the communications that Kelduum received from CCP, which he cannot share with us, made it sound like that's what happened.

Yes, because the way in which it was communicated cast doubt that any legitimate process was used to make that determination. That being that the ISK was not removed when the player in question was suspended for botting, and because no explanation for why there was A) a delay between when this determination was made and when the ISK was removed, and B) why the determination only seemed to come when Kelduum spoke up about it.

That may in fact be what happened. And if so, then so be it. The problem isn't that this happened. The problem is in how it was communicated. The communication created an impression of incompetence covered up for by misconduct. If this was all communicated to Kelduum in the way Sreegs communicated it to us in his initial post here, this wouldn't have been such a big issue, I'm sure.

The problem is that being told it was removed because it was illegally obtained is insufficient, given the circumstances.

So again... He asks "why?".

That's not Ego Maniacal.
That's not crazy.
That's not entitlement.
That's not him endorsing botting.

That's a simple question.

Do I think he was over emotional. Sure. Could it have been done a little less dramatically? I guess so. But if that's the case 90% of these posts, including yours are guilty of the same crime. Putting way more emotional crap ontop of simple facts.

In it's current state it does nothing to alleviate the public's fears of misconduct or mistake.

Clutching at straws? Its common sense that if he was botting, he wouldn't give the program unless he's an idiot. If he wasn't, some assumption was made.