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New chunks of space vs. new players

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Drilla	Posted - 2005.07.22 13:56:00 - [1] With the earlier thread about an influx of asian players I wrote what I thought was common knowlegde, that CCP plans to open up a seperate piece of space for the asians - a big chunk totally seperate from the current space but with a whole new bloodline, new ships, new mods etc. After thinking and talking with people who tried EVE and didn't stick with it I see now why this is so important. From CCPs perspective as a company, EVE have not grown satisfactory over the last year. Sure there's been new players replacing old, sure there's new content, storylines developing etc. but seen from a broader perspective the population growth has declined and we have an either very very slow increase of players or a stalemate with new coming in in about same numbers as old players leaving. This ofc. is not a perfect situation for CCP as a company so what will they do? I've talked with 5 people here at my Cybercafe who all started EVE and all but 1 stopped within three months. The common problem for them was the big gap between veteran players/corps and their own. There was simply not enough room to grow and learn without running into mercs, pirates, 0.0 inhabitants etc. with so much more knowlegde and skill. And it simply wasn't fun to start exploring and already fully explored world. I truely believe that opening up new chunks of space for different geographic regions/timezones and make them colonized is the best way to increase the total number of active players. Once a new chunk gets connected to the universe with gates, alot of balance in political and military power is shifted. This keeps the old players glued to the screen trying to hold on to former political and military strenght while it adds content and by the time (6 months?) more seasoned players who had time to grow in a similar pace as the rest of 'their' universe. Now having their own agendas and are not forced into the same treadmill as the rest of the universe. A natural thing would be to try this approach with the asian market but later on I think he would add a whole new spin and enjoyment to the game for seasoned players in 'the west' to try this also. Remember the chunks of space would only be cut off for a given period time after which it would be flooded with vets from the 'old universe'. But in those six months you can put your experience from the game into play in a 'new universe' while balacing the playtime with your normal character(s) in the 'old universe'. This could also create interresting situations. Whole corporations moving to the new space with new chars etc. So from a company (CCP) perspective I see this as positive things - ofc. there's some downsides to it all but the do not outweight the positives, in this case CCP continues growth and thus keeping the game alive and kicking. How it's time for a smoke P.S. After the last thread I was asked several times so to make it clear: I'm in no way affiliated with CCP other than I love their game. EVE System Security - Killboard (still early alpha)
Handon Guild	Posted - 2005.07.22 14:00:00 - [2] Signed More cattle 4tw ------------------------------------------------ A day of fun in Denmark
Maggot	Posted - 2005.07.22 14:04:00 - [3] What is wrong with high sec space for this purpose? With the advent of COSMOS (ignoring the spawn timing issues) there is more and more for new players to do and go visit. The spoilt brats should be happy - in my day blah blah blah. I say no to separate areas.
Miss Kahiaffa	Posted - 2005.07.22 14:04:00 - [4] Start with making "some" ships cheaper or make sure the insurances cover 80% of the buyers price....... Then we can talk about banning the asians into deepspace
Drilla	Posted - 2005.07.22 14:05:00 - [5] Avoid derailing the thread please. This is not about insurance etc. EVE System Security - Killboard (still early alpha)
Gerome Doutrande	Posted - 2005.07.22 14:10:00 - [6] is the stuff you wrote about separated areas based on your assumptions or an actual ccp statement?
Hans Roaming	Posted - 2005.07.22 14:10:00 - [7] Part of the reason I chose Eve is that it's not divided into shards, what you are proposing is this. WTS: Male, 37, single, can fly starships, build rockets and dance Salsa. WTB: Female, plays eve, lives near London UK
Drilla	Posted - 2005.07.22 14:12:00 - [8] At the CCP event in Copenhagen the lead dev from CCP told us about these plans. Althuogh CCP hasn't implemented this or in any devblog etc. stated this as their official plan it's at present time more the devs favorite idea of doing it. EVE System Security - Killboard (still early alpha)
Drilla	Posted - 2005.07.22 14:13:00 - [9] Originally by: Hans Roaming Part of the reason I chose Eve is that it's not divided into shards, what you are proposing is this. No, we're still in the same universe and after the given time the universes are connected to one big universe. It's simply a way of easing a large portion of players into the game and at the same time shifting the political and military balance of the current universe. They will be logging into the same game, same servers, same universe - only thing is there will be no gates to connect them to start with. EVE System Security - Killboard (still early alpha)
Miss Kahiaffa	Posted - 2005.07.22 14:18:00 - [10] That is something else as what you said before, When they share the servers, market, etc. etc. there will be less work, but if they get different markets, and diff ships, there will be trouble ahead.
Winterblink	Posted - 2005.07.22 14:18:00 - [11] Edited by: Winterblink on 22/07/2005 14:18:31 Originally by: Drilla I've talked with 5 people here at my Cybercafe who all started EVE and all but 1 stopped within three months. The common problem for them was the big gap between veteran players/corps and their own. I see this coming up a lot. People need to understand something about this. If I start a new character in WoW, I have to go through the same motions to level him to max like the veteran players. The crucial difference here (other than the fact that WoW sucks and EVE rocks) is that with one game you can powerlevel yourself up to max. If I take a week off and play nothing but WoW non-stop in as many hours per day I could stomach, I'll be better off than the guy who worked that week and could only afford to play evenings and weekends. Here, the playing field is leveled (pun!), and the only factor to worry about is money. And that's not too hard to get. ___winterblink/warp_drive_active/eve_nature_vraie//
Drilla	Posted - 2005.07.22 14:24:00 - [12] They'll share all the stuff, but it will be seperate regions so you can see stuff fromt he other markets etc. New blodline modules is easy to add - it's just another race, same catagories of modules/ships. EVE System Security - Killboard (still early alpha)
Drilla	Posted - 2005.07.22 14:26:00 - [13] Originally by: Winterblink Here, the playing field is leveled (pun!), and the only factor to worry about is money. I agree with you Winterblink, but I also understand the needs of CCP to expand and add more players (more income). I dont know about you, but I'd personally love a new chunk of space where all start at 0 again and all old allegiences etc. are reset, could be VERY interresting :D EVE System Security - Killboard (still early alpha)
Treebeard dk	Posted - 2005.07.22 14:26:00 - [14] Only 2 problems about this Drilla my friend. If you add the asian market to the closed area with only 1 race, Jovian or whatever, they wont have much to choose from in terms of ships etc. another thing would be the fact that its going to be like a new world, which means that there will be no pirate, no alliances no player market with good loot to sell etc. for the new players, so the spice that makes people stick to the screen today will not be there as much. Timezone is another thing, if you add the asians to that closed area, not much would happen when it opened up, they are online when the rest is asleep :) But I agree that there is a lack of space where new people can "grow up", instead of making a totally closed area, make a region or even less a space where only people that are less than 3 months old can enter or other solutions like that. ------ Pimpin' training to lvl5
Bryanna Rivellan	Posted - 2005.07.22 14:27:00 - [15] I thought Eve actually advertised this ONE persistent world, where everyone is on the same server, and in the same linked world. This is one of the things which attracted me to this game. All players in the same world, not secluded from others. Granted life in hard for new players as they have to learn a alot, and play for a certain amount so they too can feel that they are making a difference. Making different regions, seperated from the "normal" EVE world, would only end in world ethnic groups gathering in their seperate region. Face it, one of the things that makes this game so attractive is the amount of contact you get with people around the globe (some of those contacts are bad, some are good). This would be lost in my humble opinion. The game would change character, and probably not in a way I would like.
Drilla	Posted - 2005.07.22 14:32:00 - [16] Even though it's just for 6 months? I think that's taking it a bit heavy to heart. EVE System Security - Killboard (still early alpha)
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.07.22 14:36:00 - [17] Theres over 1500 "safe" systems for new players. This is also discriminating. Asian players would be on equal footing. If my Euro friend started to play he'd be competing with vets.
Winterblink	Posted - 2005.07.22 14:41:00 - [18] Lets clear something up Compare EVE now, to EVE at launch. New players now have MANY advantages over veteran players who played at launch with regards to skill training. There's established paths to maximize your training for the role you've chosen, better learning skills, and implants. So far, these additions have also been beneficial to everyone in the game, while allowing new players to advance faster now than before. If EVE starts to spoonfeed new players just because they're starting with an incorrectly perceived disadvantage, I doubt I'd be the only one who has something to say about it. Don't marginalize the investment in time, effort, and money by players who have been here from the start. ___winterblink/warp_drive_active/eve_nature_vraie//
Sirkill	Posted - 2005.07.22 14:44:00 - [19] making any section of space unascessible to people of a particular timezone or location is stupid and against the point of eve.
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.07.22 14:52:00 - [20] Edited by: DrunkenOne on 22/07/2005 14:52:48 Originally by: Drilla I dont know about you, but I'd personally love a new chunk of space where all start at 0 again and all old allegiences etc. are reset, could be VERY interresting :D Id love it if eve was just reset back to 0 personally, cruiser fleet battles 4tw. Problem is, old allegiences wouldn't be reset. The power corps today and the veterans already know how to get ahead in the game. It wouldnt take months to build and afford the first BS, people would be building them in weeks (not flying them for a while, but still). You can reset the game but you cant reset knowledge. Also, while it is an interesting idea, especially the eventually connecting that area back to the main part of eve which as you say, would cause lots of political ****, its not feasible IMO. New non-asian players on the main servers would complain that it isn't fair that there is a new area where everyone is starting from scratch, and they cant access it. If it was accessible to all new players that would make it feasible, but heavily exploitable. Organized vets and corps might buy a new account just to go over there and dominate using their advanced knowledge of the game.
Drilla	Posted - 2005.07.22 14:53:00 - [21] I dont disagree with you at all Winterblink, but I still can understand why CCP (if they do it) would do it this way. There's too low a rate of 'players staying in the game' compared to a year ago. This is ofc. just an idea, but if this is not the way to go what then? The current way of implementing new players is simply not good enough.... EVE System Security - Killboard (still early alpha)
Andrue	Posted - 2005.07.22 14:54:00 - [22] No! Eve is supposed to be a grown-up MMORPG. We don't need any more whiny noobs complaining about how their five minute old character can't fly a battleship yet. From what I can see Eve is doing fine and that means we can be moderately choosy about who we allow on these servers. We don't need to pervert the game just so it appeals to spineless individuals that don't have the patience to wait for their character to develop. Nor do we need fools that think their game play is limited by their own character's abilities. We can also do without people looking for instant gratification and have no respect for the existing playerbase. What we need is people prepared to enjoy and explore the full depth of the game. People willing to invest the time in developing a character. People with the sense to realise that by working with other people they can experience aspects of game play that they couldn't when playing solo. Those players are fun to interact with and add to the atmosphere and quality of this game. Thankfully there appear to be enough people out there with the right kind of attitude to keep Eve reasonably populated. -- (Battle hardened miner) [Brackley, UK] WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality.
Winterblink	Posted - 2005.07.22 14:56:00 - [23] Originally by: Drilla I dont disagree with you at all Winterblink, but I still can understand why CCP (if they do it) would do it this way. I can understand why they would do it too, but I doubt they will for the simple fact that this game is not for people who are incapable of investing time and effort into playing it. Originally by: Drilla There's too low a rate of 'players staying in the game' compared to a year ago. What, exactly do you base this on? Not being incendiary here, just curious, because people tend to make statements like that based on .. well, nothing really. :) ___winterblink/warp_drive_active/eve_nature_vraie//
Droid0729	Posted - 2005.07.22 15:02:00 - [24] It's clear that a n00b now won't catch up a 2 years old vet in skills, never ever practically. Look at the bright side, I'd enjoy to have a new chunk of space opened up in 6 months (or whatever, it'll be more as it hasn't start yet), it would be something that may keep me in Eve. What would prevent vet alliances or pvp corps, after the 6 months, to go there with an impressive force, kill everything that moves and occupy another region or two? After all the newbs won't have the same knowledge of the game, or pvp experience (some of them, but overally can't be compared to the current population). After a while it would just be more people to slaughter, more space to claim. I don't see this as a bad thing.
Drilla	Posted - 2005.07.22 15:06:00 - [25] Originally by: Winterblink Originally by: Drilla There's too low a rate of 'players staying in the game' compared to a year ago. What, exactly do you base this on? Not being incendiary here, just curious, because people tend to make statements like that based on .. well, nothing really. :) EVE-I's 'people online' graph, it's been hold the same numbers for way way too long. EVE System Security - Killboard (still early alpha)
Winterblink	Posted - 2005.07.22 15:08:00 - [26] Originally by: Droid0729 It's clear that a n00b now won't catch up a 2 years old vet in skills, never ever practically sigh What does a new player consider to be "catch up", here? If I have 25 million skillpoints now, is that a catch up point for someone? Or is it to be able to fly a battleship, something that does NOT take 25 million skillpoints to achieve? What is that mystical finish line that everyone's looking for that the game has to be revolving around? I've been playing this game since beta, and every time I see threads like these I have to wonder why nobody's figured it out: THERE IS NO FINISH LINE. ___winterblink/warp_drive_active/eve_nature_vraie//
Hukka	Posted - 2005.07.22 15:12:00 - [27] I like the idea and I am sure it would be more appealing for new players. It wouldn't be any "kick start" like some suggestions of giving more SP for new players. When that space is connected to old eve there could be some "natural dissaster" happening in that new space so players would need to evacuate from there (npc would help move stuff to some safe camps in old space).
Nazhuret	Posted - 2005.07.22 15:13:00 - [28] Sounds not very appealing for new players. They will have no choice at character creation. Only a single race. And unless they start with thousands at the same time, that space will be very lonely. I find it hard to believe that CCP would consider this.
Trader Klyde	Posted - 2005.07.22 15:19:00 - [29] Adding a separate area for just the Asian folks is a bad idea, IMO. They need to log onto the game and start the same way the rest of us did, and still do. The only thing that needs to be added when this happens is more ISD staff and volunteer help staff to handle the questions voiced by the new influx. I can see no reason whatsoever to isolate the new players from everyone else, regardless of where they come from. ________________________________________________ From deep in space where nobody hears my screams... Sometimes in fear, sometimes in anger, mostly just my singing style.
Kunming	Posted - 2005.07.22 15:34:00 - [30] Worst idea ever I'd say. Look at 0.0 space its not like its full of ppl that there is no more space for new comers. The reason alliances claim multiple regions is cause the regions are crap them selves, only 3-4 proper systems to mine/hunt per region. Ofcourse we gonna protect it like a virgin. Its not the quantity of the systems/regions but the quality thats the problem. Another thing u mentioned is exploring. I was waiting for a corp mate in some 0.0 system and saw some stuff on the scanner. To pass the time waiting I looked around for that stuff and actually found it right when my buddy came back. My friend was very anxious about it and we brought down some archeology and hacking equipment within the hour (I was telling him its nothing special and just scenery stuff) and analyzed every single object with no effect ofcourse. I'm 100% sure no other eve player has ever been there but it also has no functionality at all, not even NPCs to shoot at. (Btw I knew it would end like this but was quite a dissapointment for my friend) Why I'm telling this? Because you talk about opening up new space, while the current space we have is already dull, empty and (most important) useless! Add some content and meaning to the current space we have before opening up new chunks of blackness to stare at. Intercepting since BETA

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