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Wuubaa
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Posted - 2005.07.23 12:53:00 -
[31]
maller > thorax.
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Jane Vladmir
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Posted - 2005.07.23 14:36:00 -
[32]
Thorax underpowered - That would be the day -_-
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Dred 'Morte
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Posted - 2005.07.23 15:53:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Dred ''Morte on 23/07/2005 15:53:13
 Originally by: Wuubaa
maller > thorax.
OMG!! FINALLY SOMEONE THAT IS ENLIGHTNED!!!!!! OMG OMG!!! 
yup, Maller is better than thorax, only noobs dont know that (tahts 99% of population)
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Leumas Ebmocnud
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Posted - 2005.07.23 16:15:00 -
[34]
I really dont think a thorax needs a boost, and thats coming from someone who has used the thorax consistently since i started (yep i`ve lost a few :) )
It just needs some imagination! The way i figure it, you can go all out attack with no defence (and still have 8 heavy drones, T2 if you have em)Or awesome defence, and lower attack ability (and still have 8 heavy drones, T2 if you have em)
I mean come on, 8 heavys is enough to do lvl 3 missions without even using guns, theres your firepower.
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Lintaka
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Posted - 2005.07.23 16:33:00 -
[35]
thing is, gallente are supposed to be the masters of drones, and the rax shows this, there on some ships, not really meant to have massive firepower, such as guns that would fit there sized ships, the firepower in a rax is its drones, I dont think it was really meant to be able to do serious damage with medium guns, as its drone bay is the killer :)
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Kaeten
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Posted - 2005.07.23 16:38:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Kaeten on 23/07/2005 16:40:53
Originally by: Nafri
no cruiser can fit 5 medium longrange guns, maybe maller, and MOA but well
at least rupture needs 2 RCU II to fit 5x 720II and something else 
He was talknig about tech1 guns, tech2 guns are a dream atm. Thing is that the thorax also gets a bonus to medium hybrid guns so I think we should be able to use rails too.
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Ricky Baby
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Posted - 2005.07.23 17:34:00 -
[37]
no ship in the game can mount a full top row of the best guns without massive amounts of lows to go into power
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slothe
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Posted - 2005.07.23 18:50:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Ricky Baby
no ship in the game can mount a full top row of the best guns without massive amounts of lows to go into power
but as i keep saying, the 200mm are not top end weapon.
Say hello on our forum @www.aserea.com
or join our public channel ingame "MLM Public"
lordmix >... i helped a corp m8 pull it off |
ELECTR0FREAK
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Posted - 2005.07.23 19:22:00 -
[39]
A Thorax easily puts out several times the damage output of any other cruiser.
The key? Drone bay. 8 Heavy drones and the skill at lvl 3 puts out over 160 damage per second. That alone is double the damage a Maller fitted with Heavy Beams and Gamma M crystals puts out.
Sooo yeah. Don't tell me its underpowered. 
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Nafri
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Posted - 2005.07.23 20:24:00 -
[40]
Originally by: slothe
Originally by: Ricky Baby
no ship in the game can mount a full top row of the best guns without massive amounts of lows to go into power
but as i keep saying, the 200mm are not top end weapon.
well, somehow gallente ships arent really designed to use rails, thy also strugle with CPU for it
but after all, alone the 8 heavy drones will compensate for most fitting issues you have with thorax, but rupture has this problems without even having the possibility to use some drones (7 medium ones are possible).
Thorax need less drones then the vexor, maybe 4 heavies max, then you could boost the attributes of the thorax a bit
but after all, the medium rails seems to be cladari weaponns (moa=)
Your bla bla hit bla bla for bla bla damage. Wanna have some bubu now? |
Okoru
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Posted - 2005.07.23 22:17:00 -
[41]
i fit 5 250mm Carbides on my rax sometimes... does that make me stupid?   
---
What I say has nothing to do with my corp.
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Linavin
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Posted - 2005.07.23 22:24:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Lintaka
thing is, gallente are supposed to be the masters of drones, and the rax shows this, there on some ships, not really meant to have massive firepower, such as guns that would fit there sized ships, the firepower in a rax is its drones, I dont think it was really meant to be able to do serious damage with medium guns, as its drone bay is the killer :)
Umm, the rax gets medium hybrid bonuses and no drone bonuses along with that all important mwd bonus for getting up close and personal with blasters. The vexor on the other hand, recieves +1 drone per lvl, which is of course for drone warfare. I really find it hard to believe that the rax was supposed to be the deticated drone carrier and not use its 5 gunslots to do most of its damage. As said earlier in the thread, all high tier combat cruisers need a powergrid boost, including the thorax. But then the thorax needs to be put in line with a smaller drone bay.
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Ris Dnalor
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Posted - 2005.07.23 22:44:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Goberth Ludwig
Originally by: Ris Dnalor
pfft..
tanking a rax is blasphemous...
best blasters u can buy in high,
mwd, scram, sensor booster mids,
7x t2 dmg mods in low.
put some velcro on yer arse & get to it already.
tralala
Have u ever flown a thorax?
yep i have. have you ever made a typo? 
--
Jump Drive Operation / Rank 5 / SP: 1280000 of 1280000
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Ris Dnalor
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Posted - 2005.07.23 22:46:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Dionysus Davinci
Originally by: Ris Dnalor
7x t2 dmg mods in low.
You don't bother with t2 in a t1 ship that is usually going to be suciding. Let alone with 2 damage mods going to waste in your hold.
true, true. t1 would be more financially sensible. but t2 are more fun :)
--
Jump Drive Operation / Rank 5 / SP: 1280000 of 1280000
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.07.23 22:47:00 -
[45]
Nerf dronebay boost grid.
________________________________________________________
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Farjung
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Posted - 2005.07.23 22:52:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Farjung on 23/07/2005 23:01:50
Originally by: Ris Dnalor
7x t2 dmg mods in low.
As you didn't seem to understand Dionysus Davinci's, Gabriel Karade's or Goberth Ludwig's posts: a thorax has 5 low slots.
Someone really needs to keep me away from the Taranis |
ELECTR0FREAK
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Posted - 2005.07.23 23:17:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Meridius
Nerf dronebay boost grid.
Yes, what Meridius said, its the only sane fix to the Thorax I can think of.
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Goberth Ludwig
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Posted - 2005.07.23 23:43:00 -
[48]
Ris, still, u say tanking a rax is blashpemus: most people fly tanked raxes because they totally kick ass, HP of a BS and uber damage with the 8 heavies...
and u go like "the best way to fly rax is to fit it for damage" -> the damage you gain by fitting a few med blasters and damage mods is far from balancing the fact you will die before the drones even manage to engage...
- Gob (also known as Admiral Goberius) |
Shenro
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Posted - 2005.07.24 01:12:00 -
[49]
hey heres an idea
lets just boost everything, give every ship 2x everything in everyway then everything will be uber and we can complain about nerfing.
2005.04.05 19:01:31 combat Your Medium Pulse Laser II perfectly
strikes Brothel, wrecking for 260.3 damage.
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Amarr knight
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Posted - 2005.07.24 01:37:00 -
[50]
Yes its hard for thorax to fit 5 guns but it makes up for that with drone bay. Thorax is already the best cruiser in game. Which lvl are you trying to take take it?
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.07.24 02:48:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Shenro
hey heres an idea
lets just boost everything, give every ship 2x everything in everyway then everything will be uber and we can complain about nerfing.
That's silly.
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
Combat Pilot and looking for a corp? Check AGSYN out here |
Hoozin
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Posted - 2005.07.24 03:53:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Amarr knight
Yes its hard for thorax to fit 5 guns but it makes up for that with drone bay. Thorax is already the best cruiser in game. Which lvl are you trying to take take it?
And hence the majority of the people in this topic asking for the Grid to be slightly boosted and that the drone bay be nerfed (generally accepted to be cut in half).
The damage potential on 8 heavy drones is quite staggering. Perhaps a bit much for a single Tech 1 Cruiser, however it fits with the Gallente stereotype that drones is good (I'm still kinda confused on how it could have a drone bay half the size of a hauler's cargo bay, pre-patch ofc, but that aside...).
I was using a mission Rax with 5 x 200mm Rails on it and it worked nicely with an AB, Web, Cap Recharger, Armor repairer and for the most part a rack of powergrid mods. IMO - it should be possible to fit a full rack of the top tier of guns in any size on the highest tier of each shiptype, however there should be little to no CPU/PG left if you do that. I really don't think that trying to fit a full rack of the MIDDLE tier of gun on a Tier 3 cruiser should be as hard as it is.
---------------------------------
Carebears are cooler than you.
Haiku embroidered panties - On sale now at your local sharky outlet. |
Garreck
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Posted - 2005.07.24 04:18:00 -
[53]
Arg. The thorax is not underpowered. The thorax is not OVERpowered. The thorax is perfect the way it is.
Why does a thorax have trouble fitting a full rack of top teir guns? Because it has a whole lotta drone bay to pick up the slack.
Why does the thorax have whole lotta drone bay? Because unlike some other cruisers, it has trouble fitting a full rack of top teir guns.
Are you seeing a pattern? Hell, the description of the thorax itself mentions it using blasters and "hordes of drones" to tear apart its targets. So why do we all have trouble with the concept that the thorax is the premier drone boat in the game? There's not even MENTION of drones in the Vexor's ship description so I don't know why the heck that beast is always brought up as the example of which ship should have more drone space. The drone bonus was added several patches ago to simply beef up what was previously a useless ship. Not to define it as a specialized drone carrier.
The thorax is the premier drone-carrying cruiser of a race that favors drones. It's supposed to have lots of drone space, and it's supposed to be slightly gimped in the turret department.
Leave bloody well enough alone!
Garreck
Aeternus Crusade
Aku. Soku. Zan. |
DrunkenOne
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Posted - 2005.07.24 05:37:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Garreck
Arg. The thorax is not underpowered. The thorax is not OVERpowered. The thorax is perfect the way it is.
Why does a thorax have trouble fitting a full rack of top teir guns? Because it has a whole lotta drone bay to pick up the slack.
Why does the thorax have whole lotta drone bay? Because unlike some other cruisers, it has trouble fitting a full rack of top teir guns.
All cruisers have trouble fitting a full rack of their top tier guns. Unlike the thorax they dont have uber drone bays to make up for it.
Originally by: Sochin
CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
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Paradox Eve
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Posted - 2005.07.24 08:47:00 -
[55]
If you look at the PG of the Thorax compared to the requirements for guns, the thorax turns out to be one of the hardest tier 3 cruiser to fit. And on top of that, it has one fewer high slot than all the other cruisers. It makes good sense that it has a much larger dronebay in terms of balance. And even more sense in terms of what the ship is supposed to be.
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.07.24 09:24:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Sobeseki Pawi on 24/07/2005 09:24:56
Originally by: Paradox Eve
If you look at the PG of the Thorax compared to the requirements for guns, the thorax turns out to be one of the hardest tier 3 cruiser to fit. And on top of that, it has one fewer high slot than all the other cruisers. It makes good sense that it has a much larger dronebay in terms of balance. And even more sense in terms of what the ship is supposed to be.
It would make sense if the MegaT had a 1000 m3 dronebay and the grid of a Raven.
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
Combat Pilot and looking for a corp? Check AGSYN out here |
ELECTR0FREAK
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Posted - 2005.07.24 10:13:00 -
[57]
Edited by: ELECTR0FREAK on 24/07/2005 10:14:25
Originally by: Paradox Eve
If you look at the PG of the Thorax compared to the requirements for guns, the thorax turns out to be one of the hardest tier 3 cruiser to fit. And on top of that, it has one fewer high slot than all the other cruisers. It makes good sense that it has a much larger dronebay in terms of balance. And even more sense in terms of what the ship is supposed to be.
Ah but the issue is that a Thorax pilot with lvl 4 skills can fit light neutron blasters, a 1600mm plate, and still do over 250 damage per second (160 through its drones). Please let me know how you can achieve that kind of defense and offense combo on any other cruiser. Oh, and be sure to please cite your damage calculations.
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Toaster Oven
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Posted - 2005.07.24 11:03:00 -
[58]
Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK
Ah but the issue is that a Thorax pilot with lvl 4 skills can fit light neutron blasters, a 1600mm plate, and still do over 250 damage per second (160 through its drones). Please let me know how you can achieve that kind of defense and offense combo on any other cruiser. Oh, and be sure to please cite your damage calculations.
Thank you for bringing this to my attention
Rupture
PG with Lvl5 engineering = 906.25
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II with Weapons Upgrade 5 = 99PG
1600mm Rolled Tungsten = 500PG
Result = Fits, 10.25PG leftover with no grid mods
GUNS
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II DMG = 1.98(base) * 1.25(Med Proj 5) * 1.1(Med Art Spec) * 1.15(SS 5) * 1.25(Min Cruiser 5)
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II DMG = 3.91359375
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II ROF = 3.375(base) * .9(Gunnery 5) * .8(Rapid Fire 5) * .75(Min Cruiser 5)
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II ROF = 1.8225
DMG mod with 4 Gyrostab IIs = (1.1 * 1.1 * 1.1 * 1.1)^(.25^.25)
DMG mod with 4 Gyrostab IIs = 1.3094
ROF mod with 4 Gyrostab IIs = (.895 * .895 * .895 * .895)^(.25^.25)
ROF mod with 4 Gyrostab IIs = .6416
DPS for 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II with 4 Gyrostab IIs firing EMP = (3.91359375 * 1.3094 * 22)/(1.8225
* .6416)
DPS for 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II with 4 Gyrostab IIs firing EMP = 96.4DPS
Total DPS from guns = 96.4 * 4 = 385.6 DPS
ROCKETS
ROF Rocket Launcher II = 3.2(base) * .9(Missle Launcher Op 5) * .85(Rapid Launch 5) * .9(Rocket Spec 5)
ROF Rocket Launcher II = 2.2032
Dmg Rocket = 25(base) * 1.25(Rockets 5) * 1.1(Warhead Upgrades 5)
Dmg Rocket = 34.375
DPS Rocket Launcher II = 34.375/2.2032
DPS Rocket Launcher II = 15.6
Total DPS from Rocket Launcher II = 31.2 DPS
DRONES
Rupture drone bay = 60m3 = 6 med drones
Hammerhead II DMG = 1.92(base) * 1.25(Heavy Drones 5) * 1.1(Gallente Drones 5)
Hammerhead II DMG = 2.64
Hammerhead II ROF = 2sec
DPS from Hammerhead II = (1.92 * 1.25 * 1.1 * 9)/2
DPS from Hammerhead II = 11.9
Total DPS from Hammerhead II = 11.88 * 6 = 71.4DPS
Total Damage output from plated Rupture = 385.6 + 31.2 + 71.4 = *****488.2DPS*****
OMGWTFHAXRUPTUREISTOOUBER!!!11!!one!1
CCP, no other cruiser (including the Thorax) can output this type of damage with a plate fitted. Please nerf Rupture powergrid and CPU in order to prevent it from dominating Thorax and other cruisers. Please cut powergrid by 100 and reduce Stabber powergrid as well to keep it inline. Reduce Munin and Vagabond powergrid as well accordingly. Kthxbye
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Shan'Talasha Mea'Questa
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Posted - 2005.07.24 11:07:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Ris Dnalor
pfft..
tanking a rax is blasphemous...
best blasters u can buy in high,
mwd, scram, sensor booster mids,
7x t2 dmg mods in low.
put some velcro on yer arse & get to it already.
tralala
WTB, Thorax with 7 Low.
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Uggster
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Posted - 2005.07.24 11:23:00 -
[60]
WTB : Thorax with 42 low slots
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