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Farjung	Posted - 2005.07.24 12:10:00 - [61] Originally by: Toaster Oven Total Damage output from plated Rupture = 385.6 + 31.2 + 71.4 = ***488.2DPS* OMGWTFHAXRUPTUREISTOOUBER!!!11!!one!1 CCP, no other cruiser (including the Thorax) can output this type of damage with a plate fitted. Please nerf Rupture powergrid and CPU in order to prevent it from dominating Thorax and other cruisers. Please cut powergrid by 100 and reduce Stabber powergrid as well to keep it inline. Reduce Munin and Vagabond powergrid as well accordingly. Kthxbye You did an awful lot of calculations just to take the ** :p. You could squeeze something similar out of a rax if you didn't fit an mwd or rep to that either: Thorax w/ eng. 5 has 875 grid. Throw on an RCU II and that goes up to 1,006.25 MW Thorax w/ elec. 5 has 275 cpu. 1600mm rolled tungsten = 500 MW/28 tf Heavy electron blaster II w/ weapons upgrades 5 & advanced weapons upgrades 5 = 94.5 MW/24.75 tf Magnetic field stabilizer II = 1 MW/30 tf RCU II = 20 tf 5 x Heavy electron II + 1600mm rolled tungsten + 3 x Magnetic field stabilizer II + RCU II = 975.5 MW / 261.75 tf So that fits. Heavy electron II with AM w/ maxed skills & 3 damage mods: Damage: 2.1 (base) * 1.25 (med hybrid 5) * 1.1 (med blaster spec 5) * 1.15 (surg 5) * 1.25 (gall cruiser 5) * [(1.1^3) ^ (3^-0.25)] (damage mods) * 24 (AM) = 123.8 hp RoF: 3 (base) * 0.9 (gunnery 5) * 0.8 (rapid firing 5) * [(0.895^3) ^ (3^-0.25)] (damage mods) = 1.677 s DPS for 5 heavy electron II = 5 * 123.8/1.677 = 369.1 hp/s 8 ogre II w/ maxed skills: Damage: 1.92 (base damage multiplier) * 1.25 (heavy drones 5) * 1.1 (gallente spec 5) * 22 (base damage) = 58.08 hp RoF: 2 seconds DPS for 8 ogre II = 8 * 58.08/2 = 232.32 hp/s Total DPS for this rather extreme plated blasterax with no mwd or repairer: 601.42 hp/s Someone really needs to keep me away from the Taranis
Toaster Oven	Posted - 2005.07.24 12:32:00 - [62] Originally by: Farjung Originally by: Toaster Oven You did an awful lot of calculations just to take the **** :p. You could squeeze something similar out of a rax if you didn't fit an mwd or rep to that either: The difference is, the Rupture setup is somewhat useful with it's 11km range and faster drones. It can sit on a gate and actually blast something before it has a chance to warp out. Whereas Thorax without MWD will just get laughed at with it's pitiful 5km range and slow Ogres. So in analysis, it looks like the Thorax is trading range for damage, which is pretty much how it's always been balanced with Gallente on one end and Caldari at the other. So maybe the lesson for today is that just looking at DPS and whining about big numbers is rather meaningless without examining how it is delivered
Farjung	Posted - 2005.07.24 12:42:00 - [63] Of course, but you were the one stating "CCP, no other cruiser (including the Thorax) can output this type of damage with a plate fitted." And just because you can't use it to camp a gate doesn't necessarily make it useless (I can think of a couple of applications off the top of my head - covert ops ofc, and camping complex gates.) Someone really needs to keep me away from the Taranis
Toaster Oven	Posted - 2005.07.24 12:53:00 - [64] Originally by: Farjung Of course, but you were the one stating "CCP, no other cruiser (including the Thorax) can output this type of damage with a plate fitted." And just because you can't use it to camp a gate doesn't necessarily make it useless (I can think of a couple of applications off the top of my head - covert ops ofc, and camping complex gates.) Farjung, you must have missed the tongue in cheek humor when I called for the Rupture to be nerfed. I seriouly doubt anyone truly believes Rupture (or any other Minnie cruiser) needs to be nerfed. And true the Thorax gank setup could be useful in a couple of situatons. But the Rupture gank setup will be useful in more setups with it's range advantage. Which I think makes it balanced despite it's lesser DPS.
Farjung	Posted - 2005.07.24 12:59:00 - [65] "You did an awful lot of calculations just to take the **** :p." No, I did get it ;) Someone really needs to keep me away from the Taranis
Grimwalius d'Antan	Posted - 2005.07.24 17:49:00 - [66] How about leaving the Thorax as it is and boost all the other Cruisers instead?
Ithildin	Posted - 2005.07.24 18:07:00 - [67] Toaster Oven, does Scout Drones really get a damage bonus from Heavy Drones? The skill description seem to imply that only Heavy Drones get this bonus. And also, all cruisers need fittings boosted in order to make cruiser guns more valid, but not enough to make double plates possible. Also, 1600mm plates needs to add massive amount of weight to the ship they fit on (something close to, or more than, 20,000,000 KG (2x std cruiser weight)) in order to make agility, acceleration, and speed modules become nerfed when fitted in conjunction with over-sized plates. -- If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please. Josameto III - Moon 1
Heritor	Posted - 2005.07.24 18:10:00 - [68] Originally by: Dred 'Morte Edited by: Dred ''Morte on 23/07/2005 15:53:13 Originally by: Wuubaa maller > thorax. OMG!! FINALLY SOMEONE THAT IS ENLIGHTNED!!!!!! OMG OMG!!! yup, Maller is better than thorax, only noobs dont know that (tahts 99% of population) only a noob would think ship types of the class (tech 1 cruisers) make it a winner...I truly believe pilot skil and planning are the winning factors
Farjung	Posted - 2005.07.24 18:24:00 - [69] Originally by: Ithildin Toaster Oven, does Scout Drones really get a damage bonus from Heavy Drones? The skill description seem to imply that only Heavy Drones get this bonus. Well, the range bonus from the scout drone operation skill applies to all drones, so I've always inferred that the same applies to the heavy drone case. "Skill at controlling scout combat drones. Bonus: drone range increased by 5000 meters per skill level." "Skill at controlling heavy combat drones. 5% Bonus to drone damage per level." If it said 5% bonus to heavy drone damage per level I'd agre with you, but that implies it's a damage bonus to all drones. Someone really needs to keep me away from the Taranis
Ithildin	Posted - 2005.07.24 18:32:00 - [70] Originally by: Farjung Bonus: drone range increased by 5000 meters per skill level." "Skill at controlling heavy combat drones. 5% Bonus to drone damage per level." Memory database approximatly 9 months old. Updating... ... ... done. :p Well yes, as to the actual topic, the Thorax as a ship is actually rather weak and kind of like a one-trick-pony. It's the drones that does it. Cut drone bay and you'll have to upgrade the gunship aspect of the Thorax, which I don't think too many would disagree to. The Vexor and Augoror, however, both need a drone bay INCREASE. (note how the Augoror is low-end tier 2 while Vexor is high-end tier 2, as why the Augoror still shouldn't be boosted when it comes to turrets and so...) -- If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please. Josameto III - Moon 1
Toaster Oven	Posted - 2005.07.24 18:33:00 - [71] Originally by: Ithildin Toaster Oven, does Scout Drones really get a damage bonus from Heavy Drones? The skill description seem to imply that only Heavy Drones get this bonus. And also, all cruisers need fittings boosted in order to make cruiser guns more valid, but not enough to make double plates possible. Also, 1600mm plates needs to add massive amount of weight to the ship they fit on (something close to, or more than, 20,000,000 KG (2x std cruiser weight)) in order to make agility, acceleration, and speed modules become nerfed when fitted in conjunction with over-sized plates. Yes, what Farjung said. Heavy drone skill applies to dmg done by all combat drones. Same as how scout drone skill affects range of all combat drones. And I agree, mass penalty for fitting plates makes sense.
Nervar	Posted - 2005.07.24 18:46:00 - [72] Edited by: Nervar on 24/07/2005 18:52:37 -------------------------------------------------> What I look forward to is continued immaturity followed by death.
Paradox Eve	Posted - 2005.07.24 19:31:00 - [73] Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK Edited by: ELECTR0FREAK on 24/07/2005 10:14:25 Originally by: Paradox Eve If you look at the PG of the Thorax compared to the requirements for guns, the thorax turns out to be one of the hardest tier 3 cruiser to fit. And on top of that, it has one fewer high slot than all the other cruisers. It makes good sense that it has a much larger dronebay in terms of balance. And even more sense in terms of what the ship is supposed to be. Ah but the issue is that a Thorax pilot with lvl 4 skills can fit light neutron blasters, a 1600mm plate, and still do over 250 damage per second (160 through its drones). Please let me know how you can achieve that kind of defense and offense combo on any other cruiser. Oh, and be sure to please cite your damage calculations. You're wrong, this Thorax wouldn't do 250 DPS. It would do from 0 to 250 DPS depending on the situation it is in, and even under optimal conditions the pilot being engaged by the Thorax could act in such a way so as to reduce the damage to 90 DPS without destroying the Thorax. That's less than many frigates I can think of. Unfortunately, many of you people are spitting out numbers without considering the actual tactical possibilities. You are blinded by nonsensical arguments that dont mean crap.
Nira Li	Posted - 2005.07.24 19:52:00 - [74] u could always fit 5 dual 150mm with a tank or just dmg mods You Will Cry My Name

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