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Warlord Senex
Transport and Vet
0
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Posted - 2013.02.13 10:45:00 -
[1] - Quote
Why are lvl 4 missions able to be run in high.
Make the best missions in low sec please, so they have to risk their 100 mill a hour ships, thanks! |
Azrael Dinn
The 20th Legion
Mildly Sober
44
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Posted - 2013.02.13 11:00:00 -
[2] - Quote
Warlord Senex wrote:Why are lvl 4 missions able to be run in high.
Make the best missions in low sec please, so they have to risk their 100 mill a hour ships, thanks!
You running out of easy targets in lowsec?
how about if you click the "war" button and go hunt them in high sec or something else. Not everything needs to be in lowsec and 0.0. |
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
14
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Posted - 2013.02.13 11:09:00 -
[3] - Quote
Warlord Senex wrote:Why are lvl 4 missions able to be run in high.
Make the best missions in low sec please, so they have to risk their 100 mill a hour ships, thanks!
You jelly?
http://eve-kill.net/?a=system_detail&sys_id=181
They are already under risk high enough to lose their pimp mobiles on missions. |
Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
113
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Posted - 2013.02.13 11:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
Warlord Senex wrote:Make the best missions in low sec please
Level fives are already on low sec so what on earth are you babbling about?
Malcanis for CSM 8
Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Labs Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene. |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
563
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 12:48:00 -
[5] - Quote
Warlord Senex wrote:Why are lvl 4 missions able to be run in high.
Make the best missions in low sec please, so they have to risk their 100 mill a hour ships, thanks!
Another:
-nerf lvl 4's thread
-nerf high sec carebears thread
-give me more easy picking targets because I'm lazy thread
Posted here, be honored of my holy presence you infidel.
*removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
276
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 13:06:00 -
[6] - Quote
Best missions are already in low and null. Not only lev 5 but also level 4 in low and null are betetr than in high.
Beside high sec missioning has been already progressively marginalized and indirectly nerfed as top PvE income
|
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
9
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Posted - 2013.02.13 13:43:00 -
[7] - Quote
Who makes 100m/hr in highsec Lv4s? |
Naomi Anthar
No Tax So Relax.
37
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Posted - 2013.02.13 14:20:00 -
[8] - Quote
no let's buff mission running even more so they make 1 plex every single hour...
Because they obviously don't earn enough for thier "effort". |
seth Hendar
I love you miners
18
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Posted - 2013.02.13 14:27:00 -
[9] - Quote
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:Warlord Senex wrote:Why are lvl 4 missions able to be run in high.
Make the best missions in low sec please, so they have to risk their 100 mill a hour ships, thanks! You jelly?http://eve-kill.net/?a=system_detail&sys_id=181They are already under risk high enough to lose their pimp mobiles on missions in high sec.
well, thoses kills are not under the topic here, at one moment, those mission runners choosed to engage, they were not blaped by 10+ nados but 1v1, there is nothing we can do for those who caught the "stupid"
or they were at war, and still undocked their shiny, so they still caught the "stupid"
plus highsec was never meant to be SAFE, it is meant to be SAFEST, and concord doesn't protect, they punish.
even in high, when you undock a ship, you shall be prepared to loose it.
yes, the odds are lower in high, very low tbh, BUT the possibility still exist, and this is what makes EvE Online, EvE Online, this is no Hello Kity Online |
Quintessen
Nakamori Ventures
15
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 14:32:00 -
[10] - Quote
Warlord Senex wrote:Why are lvl 4 missions able to be run in high.
Make the best missions in low sec please, so they have to risk their 100 mill a hour ships, thanks!
If you do that, then people will chain run level IIIs or just quit the game.
You cannot force someone who doesn't enjoy PVP to PVP. You can victimize them by killing them, but that'll just encourage them to find another game.
Then enjoy the huge price spikes as supply drops to nothing. Traders and industrialists will love it because the prices will skyrocket. PVP will become incredibly expensive as a basic frig will be 10M. Yay, rampant inflation. |
seth Hendar
I love you miners
18
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Posted - 2013.02.13 14:33:00 -
[11] - Quote
one shall just do it's homework, increased PVE income in high == inflation....
two recent skyrocketing in prices: incursion arrival, mining revamp
Sura Sadiva wrote:Best missions are already in low and null. Not only lev 5 but also level 4 in low and null are betetr than in high.
Beside high sec missioning has been already progressively marginalized and indirectly nerfed as top PvE income
and on the other hand, highsec has been given incursions, better mining......
the PVE isk faucet in high as only risen this past year or so...... partly leading to the current inflated market we have now..... |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
Damu'Khonde
1
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 14:45:00 -
[12] - Quote
OP can't fight the expensive PvP fits to be found in lowsec, needs to force carebears in expensive PvE fits into lowsec to gank them without getting CONCORDed. |
Quintessen
Nakamori Ventures
15
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 14:51:00 -
[13] - Quote
seth Hendar wrote:one shall just do it's homework, increased PVE income in high == inflation.... two recent skyrocketing in prices: incursion arrival, mining revamp Sura Sadiva wrote:Best missions are already in low and null. Not only lev 5 but also level 4 in low and null are betetr than in high.
Beside high sec missioning has been already progressively marginalized and indirectly nerfed as top PvE income
and on the other hand, highsec has been given incursions, better mining...... the PVE isk faucet in high as only risen this past year or so...... partly leading to the current inflated market we have now.....
Yeah... all those super rich PVE corps that run extensively in hi-sec... oh wait, not that would be the cartels who run in null who control the passive ISK faucets known as moons.
You average carebear miner who is decked out maybe makes 10-12 M/hour on a good day.
You average carebear level IV mission runner, not decked out in a maurader also makes about 10-12M/hour on a good day.
Having run level IV missions to grind standings I can tell you I would rather be doing something else. They are painfully repetitive and boring. But in order to afford my T2 ships I have to deal with purchasing T2 components controlled by large alliances in null.
As for the cause of the inflation. Stop buying the new shinies like tier 3 BCs and it won't go up so much.
In the case of supply and demand, the only people not playing fair (though by the rules) are the cartels. |
Seranova Farreach
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
417
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 14:58:00 -
[14] - Quote
Warlord Senex wrote:Why are lvl 4 missions able to be run in high.
Make the best missions in low sec please, so they have to risk their 100 mill a hour ships, thanks!
you musnt have any prob skills to take on L5 runners.. oh wait.. maybe you do..but FOREVER ALONE. |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
564
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 15:08:00 -
[15] - Quote
Naomi Anthar wrote:no let's buff mission running even more so they make 1 plex every single hour...
Because they obviously don't earn enough for thier "effort".
Free lesson 1 for you: missions have been nerf to the ground since 3 years now, from amount of loot (some 4.5k m3+ now drop about 0.7k m3 at best), reward amount and rats bounty amount, increased number of rats and AI (thus decreasing the speed at which you clean your mission and global income amount)
Free lesson 2: plex is about to skyrocket to 600M, tell us all how you manage to do 600M an hour with your uber ship.
Best advice: come back when you know something about high sec mission and rewards, so you don't look ridiculous with your comments like the one you just did.
*removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Qaidan Alenko
State War Academy
Caldari State
1780
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 15:11:00 -
[16] - Quote
Warlord Senex wrote:Why are lvl 4 missions able to be run in high.
Make the best missions in low sec please, so they have to risk their 100 mill a hour ships, thanks!
Meanwile... in a year or so, we'll be seeing calls for lvl 3 missions to be moved to low sec....
Go ahead... Get your-áWham on!!! |
seth Hendar
I love you miners
19
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 15:18:00 -
[17] - Quote
Quintessen wrote:seth Hendar wrote:one shall just do it's homework, increased PVE income in high == inflation.... two recent skyrocketing in prices: incursion arrival, mining revamp Sura Sadiva wrote:Best missions are already in low and null. Not only lev 5 but also level 4 in low and null are betetr than in high.
Beside high sec missioning has been already progressively marginalized and indirectly nerfed as top PvE income
and on the other hand, highsec has been given incursions, better mining...... the PVE isk faucet in high as only risen this past year or so...... partly leading to the current inflated market we have now..... Yeah... all those super rich PVE corps that run extensively in hi-sec... oh wait, not that would be the cartels who run in null who control the passive ISK faucets known as moons. You average carebear miner who is decked out maybe makes 10-12 M/hour on a good day. You average carebear level IV mission runner, not decked out in a maurader also makes about 10-12M/hour on a good day. Having run level IV missions to grind standings I can tell you I would rather be doing something else. They are painfully repetitive and boring. But in order to afford my T2 ships I have to deal with purchasing T2 components controlled by large alliances in null. As for the cause of the inflation. Stop buying the new shinies like tier 3 BCs and it won't go up so much. In the case of supply and demand, the only people not playing fair (though by the rules) are the cartels.
i think you have no idea what you are talking about.
yes, passive income in null is one face of the problem, but just by looking at the market stats, you see that the updates i mentionned, each drove a big inflation spike.
plus, a bear running lvl4 making 10-12M / hour a good day? like really? then you are a very bad bear!
a year and half ago, with only 1 account, in high, just by running lvl4, i was doing 70+M / hour, 100M if i include loot / slavage.
and incursion give even MORE than that
|
Quintessen
Nakamori Ventures
15
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 15:28:00 -
[18] - Quote
seth Hendar wrote:Quintessen wrote:seth Hendar wrote:one shall just do it's homework, increased PVE income in high == inflation.... two recent skyrocketing in prices: incursion arrival, mining revamp Sura Sadiva wrote:Best missions are already in low and null. Not only lev 5 but also level 4 in low and null are betetr than in high.
Beside high sec missioning has been already progressively marginalized and indirectly nerfed as top PvE income
and on the other hand, highsec has been given incursions, better mining...... the PVE isk faucet in high as only risen this past year or so...... partly leading to the current inflated market we have now..... Yeah... all those super rich PVE corps that run extensively in hi-sec... oh wait, not that would be the cartels who run in null who control the passive ISK faucets known as moons. You average carebear miner who is decked out maybe makes 10-12 M/hour on a good day. You average carebear level IV mission runner, not decked out in a maurader also makes about 10-12M/hour on a good day. Having run level IV missions to grind standings I can tell you I would rather be doing something else. They are painfully repetitive and boring. But in order to afford my T2 ships I have to deal with purchasing T2 components controlled by large alliances in null. As for the cause of the inflation. Stop buying the new shinies like tier 3 BCs and it won't go up so much. In the case of supply and demand, the only people not playing fair (though by the rules) are the cartels. i think you have no idea what you are talking about. yes, passive income in null is one face of the problem, but just by looking at the market stats, you see that the updates i mentionned, each drove a big inflation spike. plus, a bear running lvl4 making 10-12M / hour a good day? like really? then you are a very bad bear! a year and half ago, with only 1 account, in high, just by running lvl4, i was doing 70+M / hour, 100M if i include loot / slavage. and incursion give even MORE than that
That was before the mission pay-out nerf. Remember that I was talking about the average player running missions solo, not your upper end.
If you're running a battleship with all T2 and faction components you've already invested quite a bit of time to get to that point.
According to CCP, bounties were the biggest prize and those were nerfed as were loot drops from most missions.
It's not like it was even a couple years ago. Also you never mentioned what you were flying making 70+ mill an hour. |
seth Hendar
I love you miners
19
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 15:35:00 -
[19] - Quote
Quintessen wrote:seth Hendar wrote:Quintessen wrote:seth Hendar wrote:one shall just do it's homework, increased PVE income in high == inflation.... two recent skyrocketing in prices: incursion arrival, mining revamp Sura Sadiva wrote:Best missions are already in low and null. Not only lev 5 but also level 4 in low and null are betetr than in high.
Beside high sec missioning has been already progressively marginalized and indirectly nerfed as top PvE income
and on the other hand, highsec has been given incursions, better mining...... the PVE isk faucet in high as only risen this past year or so...... partly leading to the current inflated market we have now..... Yeah... all those super rich PVE corps that run extensively in hi-sec... oh wait, not that would be the cartels who run in null who control the passive ISK faucets known as moons. You average carebear miner who is decked out maybe makes 10-12 M/hour on a good day. You average carebear level IV mission runner, not decked out in a maurader also makes about 10-12M/hour on a good day. Having run level IV missions to grind standings I can tell you I would rather be doing something else. They are painfully repetitive and boring. But in order to afford my T2 ships I have to deal with purchasing T2 components controlled by large alliances in null. As for the cause of the inflation. Stop buying the new shinies like tier 3 BCs and it won't go up so much. In the case of supply and demand, the only people not playing fair (though by the rules) are the cartels. i think you have no idea what you are talking about. yes, passive income in null is one face of the problem, but just by looking at the market stats, you see that the updates i mentionned, each drove a big inflation spike. plus, a bear running lvl4 making 10-12M / hour a good day? like really? then you are a very bad bear! a year and half ago, with only 1 account, in high, just by running lvl4, i was doing 70+M / hour, 100M if i include loot / slavage. and incursion give even MORE than that That was before the mission pay-out nerf. Remember that I was talking about the average player running missions solo, not your upper end. If you're running a battleship with all T2 and faction components you've already invested quite a bit of time to get to that point. According to CCP, bounties were the biggest prize and those were nerfed as were loot drops from most missions. It's not like it was even a couple years ago. Also you never mentioned what you were flying making 70+ mill an hour.
sorry but the income i mentionned is AFTER the nerf, i handed my setup to a corpmember who is running LVL 4 in the same system is used to do it (cause i pvp lowsec now, it's way more fun), and this is still around the level of income he make. |
Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa
Stark Enterprises
2283
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 15:54:00 -
[20] - Quote
Warlord Senex wrote:Why are lvl 4 missions able to be run in high.
Make the best missions in low sec please, so they have to risk their 100 mill a hour ships, thanks!
Wardec their corps, so you bring risk to their 100 mil isk ships!
Kthanx
Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk! |
Quintessen
Nakamori Ventures
15
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 15:56:00 -
[21] - Quote
seth Hendar wrote:sorry but the income i mentionned is AFTER the nerf, i handed my setup to a corpmember who is running LVL 4 in the same system is used to do it (cause i pvp lowsec now, it's way more fun), and this is still around the level of income he make.
Still never mentioned the ship or fits, but alright. My experience is that while some missions pay out that well a lot don't. Also if you don't know all the missions or resist types and are still looking them up, that takes time.
I'm not saying 70+ million isn't possible. I'm just saying it's not typical. And yeah, that may make the other mission runners non-elite and not as good at it, but that doesn't mean they don't contribute to the average. |
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
80
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 15:59:00 -
[22] - Quote
If you PvP in Low Sec now, go do that and leave the High Sec missioners to their thing.
You problems stem from the disparity in PvE and PvP fits. Ask instead for things that make PvP and PvE more compatible. When a bear has a chance of winning a random forced engagement, he will feel more inclined to try and fight it out rather than staying away or docking up as soon as opposition comes into local.
Solo Low Sec bear hunting 'pvp' is just some loser looking to kick puppies in his spare time, because this game does not penalize grief play.
News flash. Those guys you want to shoot pay to play too, and mostly don't care about PvP. Not because they are risk adverse, but because they just don't like it and prefer to do things like explore and exploit the environment. EVE has focused so much on the PvP aspects over the years that the PVE portions still feel unfinished and poorly done, but some of us still love the look and feel of the game portions of the game. EVE has moved away from the sandbox by allowing PvE and PvP to require such a different fitting style that the PvE guys can dock or explode, but not enjoy their game.
You want to fix your target poor environment? Stop hunting your prey to extinction. Want to agitate for improvements to your game? Try and understand why the PvE guy actually logs in, and work together to find a compromise that is fun for both. Victims Online isn't a fun game to play, so you don't get many that are willing to do it.
It's not about ISK. ISK is a means to an end. For the PvE guy, it means more neat stuff to play with, and if the PVE part of the game ever got attention, it means new stuff to see and do. PvP for them isn't about risk, it's about game ruining hassle because the fits that let them do what they want are not compatible with PvP. Give them the ability to both PvE and have a chance fighting off the PvP guys, and you will find targets in Low Sec, but you will have to work to kill them--- and as soon as you find a way to do so with the frequency that exists in Low Sec now, they will go away, so balance is important. |
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
15
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 16:50:00 -
[23] - Quote
seth Hendar wrote:well, thoses kills are not under the topic here, at one moment, those mission runners choosed to engage, they were not blaped by 10+ nados but 1v1, there is nothing we can do for those who caught the "stupid" or they were at war, and still undocked their shiny, so they still caught the "stupid"
I guess you havent paid much attention to all those shiny marauder losses:
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=16327511
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=16336246
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=16307319
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=16336633
14b isk in 4 ships in 24h timeframe in 1 system ganked by nados (you dont need 10+ to kill mission BS). Aint that risk we are talking about? |
Naomi Anthar
No Tax So Relax.
37
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 18:03:00 -
[24] - Quote
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:
Is this supposed to be a lot of isk? Those ships made 100x of this isk already and thier owners cba , now they will just have 99x of this money since now they need to buy new ship.
I will even go further , those nados owners would go isk dry before maruders guys keeping with such ganks |
Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa
Stark Enterprises
2283
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 19:16:00 -
[25] - Quote
Naomi Anthar wrote:Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote: Is this supposed to be a lot of isk? Those ships made 100x of this isk already and thier owners cba , now they will just have 99x of this money since now they need to buy new ship. I will even go further , those nados owners would go isk dry before maruders guys keeping with such ganks
Ahuh...
Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk! |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
276
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 19:24:00 -
[26] - Quote
This thread could have a sense 3-4 years ago, when llevel 4 missions were used to be a gold mine.
It's no longer so, missions had several nerfs and are actually a decent income for solo PvE but not the top. Many other activities are more remunerative (also considering the isk:reward ratio).
And anyway better missions are already more remunerative in low and null.
The problem I see with missions is not the payout or if they're "safe" or not. The main problem IMO is that are an unlimited resource spawned directly by the player: each one can spawn his own mission, and there's no competition for this resources.
Anomalies, Incursions, rats, WH and so on spawn based on their own timers or other triggers not controlled by the players (beside exploits and bug abusing); also are limited resources avaiable for any player, so can produce direct or indirect competition.
And this can eventually prompt to search areas with less competitors.
|
Qaidan Alenko
State War Academy
Caldari State
1798
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 19:34:00 -
[27] - Quote
Sura Sadiva wrote:
The problem I see with missions is not the payout or if they're "safe" or not. The main problem IMO is that are an unlimited resource spawned directly by the player: each one can spawn his own mission, and there's no competition for this resources.
Anomalies, Incursions, rats, WH and so on spawn based on their own timers or other triggers not controlled by the players (beside exploits and bug abusing); also are limited resources avaiable for any player, so can produce direct or indirect competition.
And this can eventually prompt to search areas with less competitors.
Hmmm... I could see something like this working. It would certainly prompt people to spread out more, possibly infusing the other trade hubs (Amarr, Rens, etc...) with new customers, while simultaneaoulsy breaking up many of the mission hubs out there too.
Go ahead... Get your-áWham on!!! |
Aglais
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
184
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 19:47:00 -
[28] - Quote
Supported on one condition:
The rewards of L4 missions are boosted greatly to correspond with the overinflated risk of suddenly pirate PvP gangs out of nowhere. If you're going to risk an expensive ship, then the missions you're using it for should be able to make the ship replaceable even if you manage to lose it in a gatecamp. If you were to be sufficiently ganked by pirates in lowsec (who no doubt would congregate in systems where L4 missions are seen for extremely obvious reasons) then everyone would likely stop doing them, given that the risk is wholly disproportionate to the reward.
We need to remember that marauders are not hard to kill. Nor are any mission ships, really, if you know what mission is happening. That being said battlecruisers will not really be useful for L4 missions either after retribution 1.1, so the only option will be expensive battleships. And regardless of how much ISK you make, if you're making it in a mission but then you lose a large expensive ship, your profit falls flat on it's face. |
marVLs
99
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 20:43:00 -
[29] - Quote
again funny guy thinks that moving lvl4 to LS would make people's doing them also move to LS
Guess what? Not even 1% of them would relocate
Btw. Find some real targets, it's not "pro" to kill mission runner on LS, it's nothing else like shooting to NPC, but i guess some dudes only want green numbers on killboard...
And about lvl4 income, it's not so big, You can earn more on HS by doing other things that's not so boring, a lot of players do lvl4 to get isk on pvp, cut thier income and they less pvp |
Naomi Anthar
No Tax So Relax.
37
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 21:00:00 -
[30] - Quote
marVLs wrote: again funny guy thinks that moving lvl4 to LS would make people's doing them also move to LS Guess what? Not even 1% of them would relocate Btw. Find some real targets, it's not "pro" to kill mission runner on LS, it's nothing else like shooting to NPC, but i guess some dudes only want green numbers on killboard... And about lvl4 income, it's not so big, You can earn more on HS by doing other things that's not so boring, a lot of players do lvl4 to get isk on pvp, cut thier income and they less pvp
Actually it's not his point, if they don't want go low sec then fine. Do lvl 3 for less isk. Lvl 3 mission isk is adequate to effort you put in high sec almost no risk space.
For me it's not more targets to shoot. IT's more about effort to get your money. |
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