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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Unrah
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Posted - 2005.07.23 13:25:00 -
[1]
I just finished my post patch isk spending calculation, and my wallet feels quite abused!
Since the patch, i spent close to 30 bil  in Freighter/capitalcomponent BPO`s and freighter Flying/Produceing skillbooks, and my future investment plans tell me this ain`t over yet.
These isk loads were all swallowed by npc`s meaning its out of the isk circulation.
Now i am really curious about the total amount of isk which went down the drain since the patch (my personal guess is around 300 to 400 bil) and the consequences for the market.
Whats your suggestions?
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fairimear
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Posted - 2005.07.23 13:39:00 -
[2]
personaly i think the entire claim to a player driven market was shafted in the latest patch.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world Domination.
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Gilbert Drillerson
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Posted - 2005.07.23 13:51:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Unrah
I just finished my post patch isk spending calculation, and my wallet feels quite abused!
Since the patch, i spent close to 30 bil in Freighter/capitalcomponent BPO`s and freighter Flying/Produceing skillbooks, and my future investment plans tell me this ain`t over yet.
These isk loads were all swallowed by npc`s meaning its out of the isk circulation.
Now i am really curious about the total amount of isk which went down the drain since the patch (my personal guess is around 300 to 400 bil) and the consequences for the market.
Whats your suggestions?
I think more than 1400 Bill went to the NPC's since last patch, they where spent on BPO's, skills for dreads and freighters. I also think it was needed, isk was loosing value b4 the patch.
500 people buying Dread and freighter skills would have used approx 300 bill on that alone, add to that 25 sets of BPO'd for Dreads at approx 20 bill ea. thats another 500 bill, then you add 50 sets of freighter BPO's at approx 12 mill ea. (double BPO's for critical components like cargo bays and partts) adds another 600 bill.
And i think im probably on the low side here.
/Gil
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Oveur
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Posted - 2005.07.23 13:55:00 -
[4]
Originally by: fairimear
personaly i think the entire claim to a player driven market was shafted in the latest patch.
whiner 
_____________________________
I say hey sky, s'other say I won say, I pray to J I get the same ol' same ol. |
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Admiral Pieg
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Posted - 2005.07.23 14:01:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: fairimear
personaly i think the entire claim to a player driven market was shafted in the latest patch.
whiner
hes kinda right 
______________
Bringing some frickin color to the forum. |
Galk
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Posted - 2005.07.23 14:03:00 -
[6]
I think your very lucky you had 30 billion to spend as you wish unrah.
Lots didn't and don't have, there the ones that suffer the concequences.
The circle continues reguardless, past failings can't be fudged in this manner.
--------
"I have always depended on the kindness of strangers."
'A Streetcar Named Desire' |
Oi Poloi
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Posted - 2005.07.23 14:04:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: fairimear
personaly i think the entire claim to a player driven market was shafted in the latest patch.
whiner
Oveurlord is back 
-----
DJ 4tw |
Nafri
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Posted - 2005.07.23 14:05:00 -
[8]
Originally by: fairimear
personaly i think the entire claim to a player driven market was shafted in the latest patch.
isk gained by NPCs must be taken by NPCs
Your bla bla hit bla bla for bla bla damage. Wanna have some bubu now? |
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Oveur
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Posted - 2005.07.23 14:07:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Nafri
Originally by: fairimear
personaly i think the entire claim to a player driven market was shafted in the latest patch.
isk gained by NPCs must be taken by NPCs
Nafri speaks words of wisdom.
_____________________________
I say hey sky, s'other say I won say, I pray to J I get the same ol' same ol. |
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Amaron Ghant
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Posted - 2005.07.23 14:08:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: fairimear
personaly i think the entire claim to a player driven market was shafted in the latest patch.
whiner
Heh Heh Heh
The sudden evaporation of isk is a good thing.
Roids are a Menece I tell you, hunt then down I say, hunt them down!!
Amaron Ghant the Mad Caldari Miner |
Goat Boy
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Posted - 2005.07.23 14:11:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Goat Boy on 23/07/2005 14:13:03
Since Eve is hosted in a self contained finite space, it must mean that the isk's are going with in it, i.e. not exported. That should result in that the strength of the isk versus other currencies is rising and that is very good news for people importing things into Eve universe, the only minor problem with line of logic is that there is no out side of the Eve universe, with the exception of the Jove's space. So one must conclude that, it is the Jove race that is putting all the new fancy, and more importantly expensive, things into Eve. This would result in that they, Jove, will have more isks than the rest of the Eve universe combined, and there fore by the shear economy strength would be able to buy every single npc corp. and claim control of at least the whole empire and therefore be able to take control of Eve without have to resulting to an all out war VS the 4 races.
And on side note, Elvis did not do any drugs.
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Atandros
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Posted - 2005.07.23 14:14:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Admiral Pieg
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: fairimear
personaly i think the entire claim to a player driven market was shafted in the latest patch.
whiner
hes kinda right
Yeah because it's definitely not the case that the capital ship construction model with the components and whatnot promotes interaction between corps, a chance for smaller corps to find a niche (producing capital cargo bays is a very good one f.ex.), nor do all those produced capital ships get sold only to players, nor do they improve 0.0 infrastructure drastically, nor do they introduce a specialized empire space niche in the form of wholesale hauling companies...and so on and so forth. Use your brain.
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Unrah
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Posted - 2005.07.23 14:14:00 -
[13]
Originally by: fairimear
personaly i think the entire claim to a player driven market was shafted in the latest patch.
How come? Mineral aquisitation, part production and ship production is all handled by human players. Personally i think the way the new Capital bpo`s were introduced is a lot better than the current r&d system.
Expensive, much longer build time, more complex logistics, but still avialbe to every player/corp who can bring up anough isk, skills and effort.
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Rafein
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Posted - 2005.07.23 14:33:00 -
[14]
Originally by: fairimear
personaly i think the entire claim to a player driven market was shafted in the latest patch.
Well, buying the BPO's don;t make the items magically appear. Players still have to mine/recycle for them. so It's still VERY player driven.
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Robstr
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Posted - 2005.07.23 14:39:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Robstr on 23/07/2005 14:39:31
and hopefully the rapid loss of isk will curb inflation a bit.
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.07.23 14:41:00 -
[16]
Originally by: fairimear
personaly i think the entire claim to a player driven market was shafted in the latest patch.
You sir, are a complete moron.
--
Want your POS to make money? Call me up. I've designed POSs that make upwards of 50m a day. |
fairimear
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Posted - 2005.07.23 14:44:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Nafri
Originally by: fairimear
personaly i think the entire claim to a player driven market was shafted in the latest patch.
isk gained by NPCs must be taken by NPCs
 does that mean there never was a player driven market?
any way my main grumble over the last patch is the sudden dumping of the pirate faction ships on the market.
the empire versions suit the role of named steping stone to t2 far better.
the sudden dumping of them from complex is very moral dammaging. 0.0 agent running was horrible to go through and what was gained from it was well earned.
having something devalued by 3-4 bill over a week does not make me enthusiastic to more days of 12 hour eve-play.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world Domination.
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.07.23 15:02:00 -
[18]
Originally by: fairimear
Edited by: fairimear on 23/07/2005 14:49:14
Originally by: Nafri
Originally by: fairimear
personaly i think the entire claim to a player driven market was shafted in the latest patch.
isk gained by NPCs must be taken by NPCs
does that mean there never was a player driven market?
any way my main grumble over the last patch is the sudden dumping of the pirate faction ships on the market.
the empire versions suit the role of named steping stone to t2 far better.
the sudden dumping of them from complex is very moral dammaging. 0.0 agent running was horrible to go through and what was gained from it was well earned.
having something devalued by 3-4 bill over a week does not make me enthusiastic to more days of 12 hour eve-play.
IF this had been player driven it would have been along the lines of.
2-3 agent runners run missions to get the ships to sell on.
players see this and say i want 1 but wont pay that.
Either the price will drop or the ships will not sell.
AS for isk sinks over dreads.
thats fine as it was set as they entered the game.
not months later when theres a value to the ships set by players.
A player buys an item from a complex--no ISK disappears.
A player buys a BPO from an NPC--ISK disappears.
--
Want your POS to make money? Call me up. I've designed POSs that make upwards of 50m a day. |
Ardor
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Posted - 2005.07.23 15:07:00 -
[19]
Unfortunatly from my (maybe limited) experience small corporations don't see the chance to earn isk with the production of capital components. Only 'megacorporations' like Techell will take this chance to become even richer.
Back to topic: I don't think there will be any consequences at all for the market because some isk from the richer players went to the NPC. A greater influence will come from the 'new' minerals in the roids of low sec Empire space and from the nerf of mission rewards. Smaller corporations hopefully will learn that mining in a small group in 0.1 - 0.4 Empire space can make more profit than solo mining scordite in 1.0. The freighters will help to transport the minerals to the hubs to sell for best prices.
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fairimear
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Posted - 2005.07.23 15:18:00 -
[20]
not sure but it think you are interpriting what im saying rong.
Sure the bpo's for dreads and such are a massive isk sink.
IS it worth it?
No idea.
My whine about the patch is in the very specific area of what it done to the few 0.0 agent runners who had their faction ships before the patch.
The dev's set the npc price for the dread bpo's.
And as of yet player driven market has not really settled on a player established trade price for them.
But i like others had my faction ship.
The dev had set NO base price for them just a ruff rate of them entering the game.
This left US the owners to set a value if we wanted to sell them.
This was very fair considering the amount of time that had to be spent in often HOTILE 0.0 running MISSIONS day in day out for weeks or months.
there was obviously people running the missions to get the ships and sell at a high price.
this is where the potential buyers impacted the market by chosing if they were willing to pay that price.
If not and the ships did not sell they either stayed with the owner or the price lowered to reflect intrest.
This way was true to the player driven market for these dealers yet kept the value and unique feel of the ships intact for people who kept them for use, display or as a sort of nest egg.
The patch however increased these ships overnight.
But unlike the dreads they had a value pre-patch set by players.
meaning the claim to players driving the pre-established market is fraud.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world Domination.
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Ander
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Posted - 2005.07.23 15:37:00 -
[21]
30 billion isk...
ALl this isk makes me drool. Now I just hope some of those BPO owners come passing through low sec ferrying the BPO's without escort. *Smirk*
http://www.eve-pirate.com |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.07.23 16:17:00 -
[22]
"whiner "
16 of 23 \o/
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Blacklight
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Posted - 2005.07.23 16:23:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: fairimear
personaly i think the entire claim to a player driven market was shafted in the latest patch.
whiner
Hahahaha, priceless.
Eve Blacklight Style
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Kin Hanyerec
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Posted - 2005.07.23 16:29:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: Nafri
Originally by: fairimear
personaly i think the entire claim to a player driven market was shafted in the latest patch.
isk gained by NPCs must be taken by NPCs
Nafri speaks words of wisdom.
nafri 4tw.
and bpo aren't isk sink : you buy them only ONCE.
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Drilla
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Posted - 2005.07.23 16:33:00 -
[25]
If you have 30 billion to spend on anything and then you whine you do not derserve 30 isk.
Pipe it down - there's alot of people who can barely afford ships in this game. Personally I'm not in economical struggles but many are and many quit over them.
EVE System Security - Killboard (still early alpha) |
implanted
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Posted - 2005.07.23 16:37:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: fairimear
personaly i think the entire claim to a player driven market was shafted in the latest patch.
whiner
this is a totaly out of order response from someone in your possition and should not be allowed.
you should have your title removed for "flaming" someone with a reasonable arguement.
tch tch
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DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2005.07.23 16:44:00 -
[27]
Originally by: implanted
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: fairimear
personaly i think the entire claim to a player driven market was shafted in the latest patch.
whiner
this is a totaly out of order response from someone in your possition and should not be allowed.
you should have your title removed for "flaming" someone with a reasonable arguement.
tch tch
WHINER!
_____________________________________
Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
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implanted
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Posted - 2005.07.23 16:46:00 -
[28]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
Originally by: implanted
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: fairimear
personaly i think the entire claim to a player driven market was shafted in the latest patch.
whiner
this is a totaly out of order response from someone in your possition and should not be allowed.
you should have your title removed for "flaming" someone with a reasonable arguement.
tch tch
WHINER!
god another idiot
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Marcus Aurelius
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Posted - 2005.07.23 16:50:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Marcus Aurelius on 23/07/2005 16:50:09
I give this thread an 8 out of 23 for entertainment.
Btw, even if one-off, it is and remains an isk sink, just not a strucural one but an incidental one.
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Liu Kaskakka
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Posted - 2005.07.23 17:01:00 -
[30]
Originally by: implanted
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: fairimear
personaly i think the entire claim to a player driven market was shafted in the latest patch.
whiner
this is a totaly out of order response from someone in your possition and should not be allowed.
you should have your title removed for "flaming" someone with a reasonable arguement.
tch tch
REMOVE OVEURS TITLE!!!!
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Tekka
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Posted - 2005.07.23 17:10:00 -
[31]
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OffBeaT
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Posted - 2005.07.23 17:12:00 -
[32]
well we cant have evryone and their dog owning a dread now can we. at lest not for some time until we get the tuffer BS comming out. hell, if evryone had a dread we all be stuck in frigs so they cant hit them around gates. 
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Trak Cranker
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Posted - 2005.07.23 18:23:00 -
[33]
A lot of people seem to think that the OP was whining. I didn't see it that way. Only stating the facts and asking for our view on that development.
And we needed some isk sinks. Pretty sure Oveur could confirm that there is still flowing more isk into the game than going out, none the less.
Trak Cranker |
Hellspawn01
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Posted - 2005.07.23 18:36:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: fairimear
personaly i think the entire claim to a player driven market was shafted in the latest patch.
whiner
Kinda sad response from a dev. Very disappointing.
---------------------------------------------
Ö
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Claude Leon
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Posted - 2005.07.23 19:00:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: fairimear
personaly i think the entire claim to a player driven market was shafted in the latest patch.
whiner
Hahahah, ummm no. You should be ashamed of yourself.
===================================================
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Unrah
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Posted - 2005.07.23 19:37:00 -
[36]
Looks like i got slighty misunderstood.
I didn`t want to start a "whine" thread. I LOVE this new patch, i LOVE the new capital system, i LOVE it that the stuff was aviable from npc`s and not got seeded through r&d agents, i LOVE it that a huge amount of isk got sucked out of the universe. I just wanted to discuss the amount of isk which was spent and the consequences (good and bad ones) on the market, cause i am pretty sure 1000 or more bil out of the circulation will have an effect.
Those 30 bil i mentioned should just give an example of the massive costs involved in big scale capital construction, and of course i would not have invested it if i would not believe to make it back + profit in the long run.
Personally i believe those new isk sink are essential, there was way too much isk flowing around.
This kind of game is determined by objectives which a player can achieve, and this patch added a lot of content on all sides. Finally i have things i can look forward again.
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Selim
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Posted - 2005.07.23 19:38:00 -
[37]
Sort of unrelated, but I think we need money sinks that aren't one-time only. Like drugs.
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Derisor
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Posted - 2005.07.23 19:42:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Unrah
I just finished my post patch isk spending calculation, and my wallet feels quite abused!
Since the patch, i spent close to 30 bil in Freighter/capitalcomponent BPO`s and freighter Flying/Produceing skillbooks, and my future investment plans tell me this ain`t over yet.
These isk loads were all swallowed by npc`s meaning its out of the isk circulation.
Now i am really curious about the total amount of isk which went down the drain since the patch (my personal guess is around 300 to 400 bil) and the consequences for the market.
Whats your suggestions?
Christ .... 99.9999% of the game doesnt even HAVE 30 billion so shut up will ya.
---------
The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one.
Wanna populate 0.0 CCP? Get Rid of showing pilots in space and docked on map and neuter local!
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Allen Deckard
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Posted - 2005.07.23 20:03:00 -
[39]
T2 bpo's should have been setup the same as the capitol ship bpo's
HUGHLY expensive thus limiting their sales.
Makes an isk sink for market.
Keeps anything from becomming price gouged to high simply cause if the price exceeds a certain % people start making that item.
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Perih Vashai
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Posted - 2005.07.23 20:26:00 -
[40]
Oveur's responses are awesome. At least he doesn't spout off PR bull like other companies' devs would.
"We appreciate your concern and apologize for the inconvenience this has caused you"
has got nothing on
"whiner"
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Oveur
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Posted - 2005.07.23 20:27:00 -
[41]
Originally by: implanted
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: fairimear
personaly i think the entire claim to a player driven market was shafted in the latest patch.
whiner
this is a totaly out of order response from someone in your possition and should not be allowed.
you should have your title removed for "flaming" someone with a reasonable arguement.
tch tch
It's good that in EVE, all kind of people are represented on the forums. Including those that do not have a sense of humor.
_____________________________
I say hey sky, s'other say I won say, I pray to J I get the same ol' same ol. |
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The Enslaver
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Posted - 2005.07.23 20:35:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Perih Vashai
Oveur's responses are awesome. At least he doesn't spout off PR bull like other companies' devs would.
"We appreciate your concern and apologize for the inconvenience this has caused you"
has got nothing on
"whiner"
/signed.
--------
FireFoxx80: If you think you can do a better job, go find yourself a datacentre to host a box, get a copy of Visual Studio, and STFU. |
loladoll
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Posted - 2005.07.23 20:41:00 -
[43]
Edited by: loladoll on 23/07/2005 20:43:37
Edited by: loladoll on 23/07/2005 20:42:33
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: implanted
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: fairimear
personaly i think the entire claim to a player driven market was shafted in the latest patch.
whiner
this is a totaly out of order response from someone in your possition and should not be allowed.
you should have your title removed for "flaming" someone with a reasonable arguement.
tch tch
It's good that in EVE, all kind of people are represented on the forums. Including those that do not have a sense of humor.
Oveur for president! I wanna join the "we love Oveur" fanclub. 
Seriously : he answers to question's on the forum during his vacation, he is honest and forthcoming, given to tongue in cheek. (to bad he is as ugly as me).
Methinks one of the critical succes factors of EVE is that there are dev's and forum moderator's who give tantalizing to enlightning information.
So remember children : dev's and forum moderators are people too and have to be treated with kindnes and respect.
yours truly,
fanboy,
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Darkrydar
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Posted - 2005.07.23 22:15:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: fairimear
personaly i think the entire claim to a player driven market was shafted in the latest patch.
You sir, are a complete moron.
Signed
OMG, WE'RE UBER (POS KILLS for the nubs) |
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Jacques Archambault
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Posted - 2005.07.23 22:26:00 -
[45]
Please keep it friendly guys, mmkay? Its ok to disagree, but please do so in a polite way.
Jacques'
{The Forum Rules} | {Email Us!} |
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Xelios
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Posted - 2005.07.23 22:49:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Jacques Archambault
Please keep it friendly guys, mmkay? Its ok to disagree, but please do so in a polite way.
Jacques'
I politely disagree!
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Antic
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Posted - 2005.07.23 23:12:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Antic on 23/07/2005 23:12:20
People who have not been lucky to recieve even one tech 2 BPO, and who didnt exploit lvl 4 missions before the patch will now find themselves strapped for cash. Prices isnt going down and if they ever do it may take half a year. Actualy prices on many tech 2 items are rising now when ISK actualy is getting more valuable. So with bounties nerfed etc the only worthwile thing left to do for a normal non tech 2 player who missed out on the lvl 4 craze, is mining :P
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Hoshi
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Posted - 2005.07.23 23:36:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Xelios
Originally by: Jacques Archambault
Please keep it friendly guys, mmkay? Its ok to disagree, but please do so in a polite way.
Jacques'
I politely disagree!
I politely disagree with your polite disagreal.
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jeNK
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Posted - 2005.07.24 00:22:00 -
[49]
A player run market?
HA HA!
Cap Recharger 2's a.k.a. license to print money anyone?
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.07.24 00:26:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Joshua Calvert
That 30B outlay is going to reap you much more than that in the long-run. So, the isk sink is only a temporary one.
In essence, money goes to money and nothing has changed in that respect.
ISK sink = money disappears from the game.
When you make the freighter and earn money, the money comes from players--no money is created!
When you buy the BPO, you send money out of the game, to NPCs.
So, even if you make 100 billion, its still an ISK sink.
--
Want your POS to make money? Call me up. I've designed POSs that make upwards of 50m a day. |
LNX Flocki
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Posted - 2005.07.24 00:26:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Antic
Edited by: Antic on 23/07/2005 23:12:20
People who have not been lucky to recieve even one tech 2 BPO, and who didnt exploit lvl 4 missions before the patch will now find themselves strapped for cash. Prices isnt going down and if they ever do it may take half a year. Actualy prices on many tech 2 items are rising now when ISK actualy is getting more valuable. So with bounties nerfed etc the only worthwile thing left to do for a normal non tech 2 player who missed out on the lvl 4 craze, is mining :P
I didn't do any lvl 4's, I have not won the BPO lottery and I don't mine. Yet I still fly T2 ships with T2 setups and I usually got enough money to pay for the occasional "accident" that may happen to one of my ships without breaking a sweat. I'm not rich but I keep going.
Maybe you should look for other ways to make ISK?
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.07.24 00:27:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 24/07/2005 00:28:05
Originally by: jeNK
A player run market?
HA HA!
Cap Recharger 2's a.k.a. license to print money anyone?
You're not printing money.
PLAYERS buy the cap IIs, meaning ZERO is being created. All that is happening is that existing money is being funneled to the BPO owners.
--
Want your POS to make money? Call me up. I've designed POSs that make upwards of 50m a day. |
Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.07.24 00:28:00 -
[53]
Originally by: LNX Flocki
Originally by: Antic
Edited by: Antic on 23/07/2005 23:12:20
People who have not been lucky to recieve even one tech 2 BPO, and who didnt exploit lvl 4 missions before the patch will now find themselves strapped for cash. Prices isnt going down and if they ever do it may take half a year. Actualy prices on many tech 2 items are rising now when ISK actualy is getting more valuable. So with bounties nerfed etc the only worthwile thing left to do for a normal non tech 2 player who missed out on the lvl 4 craze, is mining :P
I didn't do any lvl 4's, I have not won the BPO lottery and I don't mine. Yet I still fly T2 ships with T2 setups and I usually got enough money to pay for the occasional "accident" that may happen to one of my ships without breaking a sweat. I'm not rich but I keep going.
Maybe you should look for other ways to make ISK?
Same here. I don't run missions, I've never owned a T2 BPO, I don't mine, and in general I don't grind at all. Yet I have billions, and am highly invested in the capital ship market...
--
Want your POS to make money? Call me up. I've designed POSs that make upwards of 50m a day. |
Hawk Firestorm
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Posted - 2005.07.24 00:41:00 -
[54]
The main problem is that they cut income alot.
However they didn't fix the market especially regarding t2 items or indeed introduce alot more competition to stop the few getting rich pricipal and deflate the market down to sensible levels.
At the moment it's completely possible to loose months of hard graft in seconds, not exactly rewarding or a incentive to someone to keep playing and repeat the process.
In this and many ways the games becoming more about work than play and that's never a good thing.
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Allen Deckard
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Posted - 2005.07.24 00:45:00 -
[55]
T2 BPO's should be implimented the same as the capitol ship bpo's
If they cost an insane amount of isk on market would limit their ownership and production.
Would also cut down on the amount of gouging simply cause if they are to profitable people would buy one that could afford one.
Would also serve to be a great isk sink.
T2 agents could stay in the game under their current form still giving out t2 bpo's under same lottery would still be a free gift to win one.
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
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Posted - 2005.07.24 00:51:00 -
[56]
Shikari is pretty smart. To think, I was going to skin him alive for that 10m bounty ;\
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Hawk Firestorm
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Posted - 2005.07.24 00:56:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Allen Deckard
T2 BPO's should be implimented the same as the capitol ship bpo's
If they cost an insane amount of isk on market would limit their ownership and production.
Would also cut down on the amount of gouging simply cause if they are to profitable people would buy one that could afford one.
Would also serve to be a great isk sink.
T2 agents could stay in the game under their current form still giving out t2 bpo's under same lottery would still be a free gift to win one.
Well basically they should have allocated them by corp basis, research being a function of corps, where corps set out their stall as to what they planned on specialising on as far as manufacture and dished out on a regional basis, with a far wider parts market for finished items, or indeed allowing corps to compete on custom items that have a benefit other than price.
Not having any form of any market controls was a real goof here, give people a rope they will use it and it's never going to be in the groups interest.
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Allen Deckard
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Posted - 2005.07.24 01:01:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Hawk Firestorm
Originally by: Allen Deckard
T2 BPO's should be implimented the same as the capitol ship bpo's
If they cost an insane amount of isk on market would limit their ownership and production.
Would also cut down on the amount of gouging simply cause if they are to profitable people would buy one that could afford one.
Would also serve to be a great isk sink.
T2 agents could stay in the game under their current form still giving out t2 bpo's under same lottery would still be a free gift to win one.
Well basically they should have allocated them by corp basis, research being a function of corps, where corps set out their stall as to what they planned on specialising on as far as manufacture and dished out on a regional basis, with a far wider parts market for finished items, or indeed allowing corps to compete on custom items that have a benefit other than price.
Not having any form of any market controls was a real goof here, give people a rope they will use it and it's never going to be in the groups interest.
I do and I don't understand your thoughts. Are you basically saying that it should be the same as it is now but should have been issued to corps instead of players? Not sure I like this some people like to move around in corps finding the one that fits their play style. I don't but that is besides the point. Others find the game fun to be in a noob corp and stay there their entire gaming time. There are a million and one ways to run a corp and just as many differnt attitudes people have on how they want a corp to be run. They come and go ect.
So who would the t2 bpo be attached to? The ceo? Some director? Naa can't say I like it.
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Kurenin
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Posted - 2005.07.24 03:38:00 -
[59]
The equation of eve is as follows:
((2(Fags / isk)^hoes * hoes(bishes)) / whine quotent)*personage^beer
-----
[22:02] <Kurenin> anyhow, on a more serious note, what did you think of those ideas?
[22:02] <Hammerhead> we can't do anything that requires programming
Inactivity wins you. |
Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.07.24 04:39:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Hawk Firestorm
Originally by: Allen Deckard
T2 BPO's should be implimented the same as the capitol ship bpo's
If they cost an insane amount of isk on market would limit their ownership and production.
Would also cut down on the amount of gouging simply cause if they are to profitable people would buy one that could afford one.
Would also serve to be a great isk sink.
T2 agents could stay in the game under their current form still giving out t2 bpo's under same lottery would still be a free gift to win one.
Well basically they should have allocated them by corp basis, research being a function of corps, where corps set out their stall as to what they planned on specialising on as far as manufacture and dished out on a regional basis, with a far wider parts market for finished items, or indeed allowing corps to compete on custom items that have a benefit other than price.
Not having any form of any market controls was a real goof here, give people a rope they will use it and it's never going to be in the groups interest.
Oh how nice! Solo players will be screwed!
As usual.
Bad idea.
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Want your POS to make money? Call me up. I've designed POSs that make upwards of 50m a day. |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2005.07.24 07:03:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
Shikari is pretty smart. To think, I was going to skin him alive for that 10m bounty ;\
your new sig is a bit bland around the ship. Needs more stars.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
SHINJI AKARI
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Posted - 2005.07.24 07:20:00 -
[62]
Money sinks are what keeps BS's from costing 500 mil. Its basic economics really.
To keep an economy stable you have to take as much money out of the economy as you put in (whether directly or indirectly in the form of ship or item loss) or else inflation results.
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Hiram
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Posted - 2005.07.24 07:57:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Admiral Pieg
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: fairimear
personaly i think the entire claim to a player driven market was shafted in the latest patch.
whiner
hes kinda right
He's very right!
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Hawk Firestorm
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Posted - 2005.07.24 11:07:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Hawk Firestorm on 24/07/2005 11:12:48
I do and I don't understand your thoughts. Are you basically saying that it should be the same as it is now but should have been issued to corps instead of players? Not sure I like this some people like to move around in corps finding the one that fits their play style. I don't but that is besides the point. Others find the game fun to be in a noob corp and stay there their entire gaming time. There are a million and one ways to run a corp and just as many differnt attitudes people have on how they want a corp to be run. They come and go ect.
So who would the t2 bpo be attached to? The ceo? Some director? Naa can't say I like it.
Well I can understand that, basically my main point was there needs to be a far better distribution method, that stops monopoly's and introduces proper competition to the market, but by far the best way would have been to allow players/corps, corps especially to compete on their products on more than just price.
Teh overall changes from agents from helping noobs up the ladder to t2 distribution was seriously goofed as it encouraged solo emp hugging play, especially when you consider that 0 space manufacture is truely goofed, because it's not practical to mine low ore there.
The overall effect is that prices are extrmeme, the game becomes a chore for people as they have to do way more than they should just to gain a t2 mod, and the loss of a t2 equiped ship just insane.
It does nothing to encourage fun gameplay as the risks are so humungously massive, and the work required to replace the isk for these items so huge it becomes a real turnoff and makes people less willing to take risks, not to mention make the game become work than a game, and end of the day lets not forget we play for fun. :)
ya it's good to have things to shoot for, but I certainly don't want to have to saw off me arms and legs to try it either, gameplay gameplay gameplay and good design should lead the way always.
And there just hasn't been any focus on either improving the overall gameplay or working out the fundemental flaws left over from beta to improve the game as a whole, rather than just bend their way around them.
So far like I've stated the only really good thing I've seen come out of all these patches other than content such as pos's etc is the new client and stability, in effect and that's bout it sadly, aminly because they've wasted so much time trying to bodge their way around a problem than actually saying ok this doesn't work well lets go back and make it a new and make something better that's well designed and does.
The new client being a very good example of this.
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Antic
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Posted - 2005.07.24 12:19:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: LNX Flocki
Originally by: Antic
Edited by: Antic on 23/07/2005 23:12:20
People who have not been lucky to recieve even one tech 2 BPO, and who didnt exploit lvl 4 missions before the patch will now find themselves strapped for cash. Prices isnt going down and if they ever do it may take half a year. Actualy prices on many tech 2 items are rising now when ISK actualy is getting more valuable. So with bounties nerfed etc the only worthwile thing left to do for a normal non tech 2 player who missed out on the lvl 4 craze, is mining :P
I didn't do any lvl 4's, I have not won the BPO lottery and I don't mine. Yet I still fly T2 ships with T2 setups and I usually got enough money to pay for the occasional "accident" that may happen to one of my ships without breaking a sweat. I'm not rich but I keep going.
Maybe you should look for other ways to make ISK?
Same here. I don't run missions, I've never owned a T2 BPO, I don't mine, and in general I don't grind at all. Yet I have billions, and am highly invested in the capital ship market...
ah yes, were waiting for these kinds of replies.
Then dear sirs and sirettes, what exactly have you been doing to earn cash if you havent mined, grinded missions or been an industrialist? Only option left is 0.0 belt chaning, getting pampered by your corps/alliances or trading comodities. The preferable way to play a game is to have fun. Not the, grind for 12 hours THEN you might afford to go PVP some. Fight lasts 30 seconds then back to grinding to afford a new kit up. Life not = eve. Life = work/study to afford the few hours of fun and relaxation that should be games like eve.
With every patch eve is turning more into a job and less into a game. Do you really have to be unemployed, filthy rich or living with your mom in RL to have time for eve?
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Keta Min
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Posted - 2005.07.24 12:55:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Keta Min on 24/07/2005 12:55:29
Originally by: Antic
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: LNX Flocki
Originally by: Antic
Edited by: Antic on 23/07/2005 23:12:20
People who have not been lucky to recieve even one tech 2 BPO, and who didnt exploit lvl 4 missions before the patch will now find themselves strapped for cash. Prices isnt going down and if they ever do it may take half a year. Actualy prices on many tech 2 items are rising now when ISK actualy is getting more valuable. So with bounties nerfed etc the only worthwile thing left to do for a normal non tech 2 player who missed out on the lvl 4 craze, is mining :P
I didn't do any lvl 4's, I have not won the BPO lottery and I don't mine. Yet I still fly T2 ships with T2 setups and I usually got enough money to pay for the occasional "accident" that may happen to one of my ships without breaking a sweat. I'm not rich but I keep going.
Maybe you should look for other ways to make ISK?
Same here. I don't run missions, I've never owned a T2 BPO, I don't mine, and in general I don't grind at all. Yet I have billions, and am highly invested in the capital ship market...
ah yes, were waiting for these kinds of replies.
Then dear sirs and sirettes, what exactly have you been doing to earn cash if you havent mined, grinded missions or been an industrialist? Only option left is 0.0 belt chaning, getting pampered by your corps/alliances or trading comodities. The preferable way to play a game is to have fun. Not the, grind for 12 hours THEN you might afford to go PVP some. Fight lasts 30 seconds then back to grinding to afford a new kit up. Life not = eve. Life = work/study to afford the few hours of fun and relaxation that should be games like eve.
With every patch eve is turning more into a job and less into a game. Do you really have to be unemployed, filthy rich or living with your mom in RL to have time for eve?
you just listed the standard "grind" ways of making isk. there are others tho and by being creative and inventing your own ways you can make more and with less effort than grinding would give you
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Galk
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Posted - 2005.07.24 13:05:00 -
[67]
Used to be on the right track..
The skills system was a great balance... unfortunatley ccp havn't figured out a way to balance out those that do play 24hrs or in the most agressive manners, and those that play for fun.
The result now with the dirrection we have taken is that those casuals are screwed more than ever now.
It's Far too much, but it probaly was needed due to previous error. (ccp's error)
Personaly i don't see this as the answer, your effectively screwing over quite a sizeable ammount of players here that didn't jump on the gravy trains. (over 2 years, iv'e seen quite a few come and go...)
Thats wrong, but what other answers are there aside from a whipe and start over....
The build model of capitals and t2 with pos and all the way it works now is great... but unfortunately the holes were allready there so in simple terms, it's papering over the *****s.
It's like i said in my first post.. the original poster is fine and dandy, it will all come back...
And when the next big thing comes along, you betcha unrah will be waving isk at it
--------
Roy |
Jerusaleman
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Posted - 2005.07.24 13:30:00 -
[68]
surly it would be best for npcs to sell tech two bpcs and not have bpo on lotery which i think is stupid then everyone would have a fair chance of make or broke, or am i just a newb. All this talk of how to earn isk well what are they. id prefair not to haul for 30 jumps every few hours and as for sitting in a belt for weeks on end no thank you. i do want to work for my isk but i want to be entertained as well.
For the first time ever i volentered to do empty the dishwasher in stead of quietly closing my office door, made me think that did. Is this what i (a % of paying customers) want?
Wow YOU have found a way to earn isk tell us tell us and if you do the arse will prob drop out of that.
overall seems to me that a large chunk of fun has just been removed from the game prob not for everyone but still a lot of people.
best words ever, "adapt and over come" lol ill remember that when i lose a finger or my thumb but thanks for the advice anyway now back to playing a game.....
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Ronin Woman
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Posted - 2005.07.26 18:37:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Joshua Calvert
That 30B outlay is going to reap you much more than that in the long-run. So, the isk sink is only a temporary one.
In essence, money goes to money and nothing has changed in that respect.
Yes, there is a basis for the saying "The rich get richer... Etc"
But I'm hoping that once the super-rich buy the pretty toys & the sellers start seeing surplus inventory, then the not so rich will have a turn.
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Demarcus
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Posted - 2005.07.26 19:02:00 -
[70]
Originally by: implanted
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: fairimear
personaly i think the entire claim to a player driven market was shafted in the latest patch.
whiner
this is a totaly out of order response from someone in your possition and should not be allowed.
you should have your title removed for "flaming" someone with a reasonable arguement.
tch tch
You don't get out much do you? I am pretty sure the smiley next to "whiner" is meant to show a little friendly ribbing. With what people say about the devs here I would say he was down right polite to even respond.
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You are all worthless, and weak.
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