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Burnhard Brutor
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Posted - 2005.07.24 17:06:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: 1337ster
The only people complaining here are people that have already been scammed once. Lolzor!
i am a gud scammer now, onced asked a guy to give me 500k isk and he did it lolzor!
I'm not sure about you, but I think CCP made a game that all the Virtual Psychopaths from other games can come and play too. Worst thing about scamming is there is no justice or no chance of justice in game. At least a pirate who pirates with his main can get capped.
"Lolzor"?
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Palthos
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Posted - 2005.07.24 22:30:00 -
[32]
Well I would like to know why escrow scamming until people know your characters name and then recycling it is okay, while recycling a character with a low sec status is wrong?
Now I do neither but there are similarities. Although the escrow scammer is not avoiding direct ingame means, he is avoiding the consequences of his actions in game by using an out of game (out of gameplay that is) method. It just seems like ccp put the restriction on the gankers because they got normal people while the escrow scammers only get idiots.
Idiots have feelings too 
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Drosssk
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Posted - 2005.07.25 05:50:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Janara Kirk
I even inspect the escrow my main sends me, and if you can't trust your main, who can you trust? 
its good to know im not alone...
and while its true that once scammed the victim usually becomes stronger for it (and in fact im all for this method education) the people who do this constantly are truely pathetic.
You know its funny the first few times but this crap is just getting old, and people who spread this on the forums trying to provoke responses(quite well i might add) are just childish(grow up).
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.07.25 06:26:00 -
[34]
Scam on my friend, punish the stupid.
________________________________________________________
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Traxio Nacho
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Posted - 2005.07.25 08:07:00 -
[35]
I think as people have said before one of the most annoying things about escrow scamming is it makes it harder sometimes to find what u want, as you have to look through all the ones that end up as 1 bit of trit etc.
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C Saint
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Posted - 2005.07.25 10:57:00 -
[36]
I don't really give a damn if you like to screw over newbies to make your money. It's harsh but it does cause them to learn...
Scamming like this should be illegal simply because it spams up escrow. It doesn't just hurt the noobs, it hurts everyone who uses escrow and can't find any real deals thanks to asshats like yourself.
I think a good solution to this is either require skills to make lots of escrow offers just like the market, or better yet, integrate escrow into the current market as a sort of flea market/unregulated section. Also make it against the EULA to use alts for things like this. If you want to be a hated scammer, go ahead, but use your main so everyone knows what a worthless member of society you really are.
Blocking/filtering these morons and their crap offers would be good too.
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sariss
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Posted - 2005.07.25 11:02:00 -
[37]
No problem with scamming, but grow yourself some balls and do it with your main
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ManOfHonor
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Posted - 2005.07.25 13:18:00 -
[38]
id love to be able to filter by the worth of the escrow, even tho NPC concepts of worth are nerfed straight to hell, if i could exclude everything worth less than 1mil isk, the ONLY scams id find would be the ones where a norm cruiser is used in a HAC scam... or BS scam...
im all for punishing the stupid, but its just god damned annoying to sift through all these deals (hell, yesterday i saw a megathron scam.... for 10mil isk, almost crapped myself till i did 'show merchandise')
_____________________________
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Deepeh
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Posted - 2005.07.25 16:27:00 -
[39]
Originally by: babyblue
The difference is that a newer player is more likely to think it sucks and not bother with eve any further.
Rightly so, I would slap myself to oblivion and back if I lost a part of my fortune to a piece of tritanium too. I don't think I would quit over it, but I can imagine there are people that will.
Quote:
He is less likely to be judicious in inspecting the escrow, paranoid even. He will learn this only after he has been scammed.
Experience comes overtime. You can't spoon feed everybody, and the escrow system gives people enough opportunities to realise that what they are buying is not what they think they are buying. Again, being scammed on escrow doesn't lay the responsibility at CCP or the scammer, it's all the fault of the person being scammed.
Quote:
If he is resilient, he might stick around in Eve, if not - he'll quit. I know, I know, "you" don't like players like that in Eve anyway  .
?
A new study indicates that contrary to popular belief, sausages cannot talk. |
Burnhard Brutor
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Posted - 2005.07.25 17:59:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Burnhard Brutor on 25/07/2005 17:59:37
Originally by: Deepeh
Experience comes overtime. You can't spoon feed everybody, and the escrow system gives people enough opportunities to realise that what they are buying is not what they think they are buying. Again, being scammed on escrow doesn't lay the responsibility at CCP or the scammer, it's all the fault of the person being scammed.
I can't believe any reasonably intelligent person could say that the victim is responsible for the crime, not the criminal. It's obviously the fault of the scammer, isn't it? Or have you just invented a whole new paradigm of Philosophical thought?
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Marek II
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Posted - 2005.07.25 18:39:00 -
[41]
One of the problems with an 'open-ended' game allowing people to do pretty much whatever they want is that... well... some people are real jerks.
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Ronin Woman
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Posted - 2005.07.25 19:29:00 -
[42]
Lame, this is [like the author] just not right. |
Deepeh
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Posted - 2005.07.25 19:58:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Deepeh on 25/07/2005 20:01:49
Originally by: Burnhard Brutor
Edited by: Burnhard Brutor on 25/07/2005 17:59:37
I can't believe any reasonably intelligent person could say that the victim is responsible for the crime, not the criminal. It's obviously the fault of the scammer, isn't it? Or have you just invented a whole new paradigm of Philosophical thought?
If it was an in-game crime, CCP wouldn't allow or sanction it, just like killing people in high security space. This hasn't got anything to do with philosophy, it's plain fact.
An hypothesis is making a 25 jump trek into 0.0 space with a slow ship that cost you a lot of isk and no instajumps. Are you to blame people for blowing you up while slowboating it to a gate because you failed to create or use instajumps? I don't think so. If you didn't know about the laws and risks of 0.0 space, you will know then, and you will be extra-ultra-³ber-careful next time you do something like that, or take appropriate precautions.
The exact same thing goes for escrow scams. You're warned and confronted with what you are actually buying prior to buying it, even if you don't choose to click on "Inspect merchandise".
Please tell me why you think you can blame the person scamming for the stupidity, ignorance or naiveness of others, taking into account the game mechanics and in-game situations.
A new study indicates that contrary to popular belief, sausages cannot talk. |
Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2005.07.25 20:38:00 -
[44]
I have an idea on how to fight escrow scamming (at least it will make the scammer be nice and dont spam the esrow missions for others). Basically, everytime the scammer spams on the escrow list, all of us just send him a minimum of 10 eve-mails saying PLS STOP ESCROW SCAM. That way, if we have 2000 participants doing that to him, he will have a hard time opening his eve mailbox which will contain more than 20000 eve mails.
Just a suggestion, maybe it might work?
-----------------------------------
Eve is all about Darwinism:
1. Only the fittest survives.
2. Only the paranoid survives.
3. Only the pretty survives.
4. Only the rich survives. |
Burnhard Brutor
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Posted - 2005.07.25 20:49:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Deepeh
Edited by: Deepeh on 25/07/2005 20:26:28
Originally by: Burnhard Brutor
Edited by: Burnhard Brutor on 25/07/2005 17:59:37
I can't believe any reasonably intelligent person could say that the victim is responsible for the crime, not the criminal. It's obviously the fault of the scammer, isn't it? Or have you just invented a whole new paradigm of Philosophical thought?
(Edit: I wrote an incredibly long winded story here, but I can deal with your question much easier and faster :))
Please read what I said again carefully, this is what I said:
"being scammed on escrow doesn't lay the responsibility at CCP or the scammer, it's all the fault of the person being scammed."
You are responsible for clicking that "Yes" button, aren't you? It's not like the scammer can force you not to look at the "Inspect merchandise" window - you have to. If you fail to do so regardless, you are responsible for being scammed. Please tell us why you think that your own ignorance is the responsibility of the scammer.
I'm guessing you are waving a flag for scamming, pirating, griefing, thieving etc. The point about Eve is it's easy when you know how. Younger players often don't know how and the learning curve is STEEP. I wonder how many players quit or have taken away a bad opinion of Eve because of this.
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Deepeh
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Posted - 2005.07.25 21:02:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Burnhard Brutor
I'm guessing you are waving a flag for scamming, pirating, griefing, thieving etc. The point about Eve is it's easy when you know how. Younger players often don't know how and the learning curve is STEEP. I wonder how many players quit or have taken away a bad opinion of Eve because of this.
As a matter of fact my corp will expell anybody that does this, and I'm not sure what the relation or implication of scamming and "pirating, griefing, thieving etc" is. ;)
Furthermore, if new people leave over a stupid and avoidable mistake like this, I wonder what they'll do when their first battleship is blown up.
If you think that many people will leave because of things like this and are afraid this won't do EVE any good, you'll have to contact CCP and ask them to remove the ability to scam. EVE exists for over two years and people have been parting and joining continuously, yet it has a userbase of something like 60k players (?). This scamming thing isn't something new either.
A new study indicates that contrary to popular belief, sausages cannot talk. |
Caeden Nicomachean
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Posted - 2005.07.25 21:04:00 -
[47]
Quote:
You are responsible for clicking that "Yes" button, aren't you? It's not like the scammer can force you not to look at the "Inspect merchandise" window - you have to. If you fail to do so regardless, you are responsible for being scammed. Please tell us why you think that your own ignorance is the responsibility of the scammer.
scam: a fraudulent or deceptive act or operation
fraud: DECEIT, TRICKERY; specifically : intentional perversion of truth in order to induce another to part with something of value or to surrender a legal right
victim: one that is acted on and usually adversely affected by a force or agent
absurd: ridiculously unreasonable, unsound, or incongruous
Cheers!
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Moghydin
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Posted - 2005.07.25 21:04:00 -
[48]
There's a huge gap between scamming or pirating or griefing. Pirate or a griefer force themselves on an unsuspecting and unprepared victim. In escrow if you don't want to buy 1 unit of trit, called Apoc, just don't push the "Yes" button. It's that simple.
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Caeden Nicomachean
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Posted - 2005.07.25 21:10:00 -
[49]
Quote:
As a matter of fact my corp will expell anybody that does this, and I'm not sure what the relation or implication of scamming and "pirating, griefing, thieving etc" is. ;)
You see the problem with it then - so not sure what the rest is all about as its proven rather moot  Noone here would have for a second assumed that a person shouldn't get burned twice, thats rhetoric.
Its lame, we agree.
Cheers!
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Deepeh
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Posted - 2005.07.25 21:24:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Deepeh on 25/07/2005 21:28:28
Originally by: Caeden Nicomachean
You see the problem with it then - so not sure what the rest is all about as its proven rather moot Noone here would have for a second assumed that a person shouldn't get burned twice, thats rhetoric.
Its lame, we agree.
Cheers!
I think it's a quick and easy source of income, I have no problems with it or people doing it, so I'm afraid I'll have to disagree with it being a problem or lame - it's all a matter of definition.
Moot? Possibly. Waste of your time? Probably, but it's not like I'm forcing you to read or comment on my discussions with others. ;)
A new study indicates that contrary to popular belief, sausages cannot talk. |
Iacon
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Posted - 2005.07.25 21:52:00 -
[51]
As this is a contentious issue I just thought I would remind you all to keep it polite.
Thanks
-Iacon
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Mon Gagh
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Posted - 2005.07.25 22:18:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Mon Gagh on 25/07/2005 22:18:39
I like the blacklist idea. Escrow is now so full of scams that finding something that actually has the item mentioned in the description is time consuming.
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Deepeh
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Posted - 2005.07.25 22:29:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Mon Gagh
Edited by: Mon Gagh on 25/07/2005 22:18:39
I like the blacklist idea. Escrow is now so full of scams that finding something that actually has the item mentioned in the description is time consuming.
Good point, that would certainly weed out a lot of bogus and irrelevant items. A search function would be sweet too (not a description search, but a search of what is actually offered ;)).
A new study indicates that contrary to popular belief, sausages cannot talk. |
Burnhard Brutor
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Posted - 2005.07.26 00:47:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Deepeh
Originally by: Burnhard Brutor
I'm guessing you are waving a flag for scamming, pirating, griefing, thieving etc. The point about Eve is it's easy when you know how. Younger players often don't know how and the learning curve is STEEP. I wonder how many players quit or have taken away a bad opinion of Eve because of this.
As a matter of fact my corp will expell anybody that does this, and I'm not sure what the relation or implication of scamming and "pirating, griefing, thieving etc" is. ;)
Furthermore, if new people leave over a stupid and avoidable mistake like this, I wonder what they'll do when their first battleship is blown up.
If you think that many people will leave because of things like this and are afraid this won't do EVE any good, you'll have to contact CCP and ask them to remove the ability to scam. EVE exists for over two years and people have been parting and joining continuously, yet it has a userbase of something like 60k players (?). This scamming thing isn't something new either.
No, it isn't quite like that. Piracy is fine. But it seems to me, that whenever I read threads about "dubious" activities like escrow scamming, the same characters/corps pop up to blame the victims. So I kind-of start to bunch them all together into one set of peeps with one set of values, which is anything within game mechanics is okay, even better if it hurts or negatively affects another player, superb if it makes them whine or cry, fantastic if they try and petition it, FANTABULOUS if they quit the game because of it.
Honestly, this is how it looks, although I'm sure it 'aint always so.
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Nadalia
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Posted - 2005.07.26 01:03:00 -
[55]
Why on earth would a self-proclaimed scammer start a thread like this?
Honestly, other than to troll for some fiery responses, I can't see a purpose. Surely it's bad for business? |
Haishard Kraylo
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Posted - 2005.07.26 04:15:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Nadalia
Why on earth would a self-proclaimed scammer start a thread like this?
Honestly, other than to troll for some fiery responses, I can't see a purpose. Surely it's bad for business?
Two words: Creating Awareness.
We're not all bad; we're just cloned that way.
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Sharp Blue
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Posted - 2005.07.26 09:07:00 -
[57]
Anyone who falls for this deserves it. For the sake of one extra mouse click, it's un believeable.
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ShadowlordUK
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Posted - 2005.07.26 12:38:00 -
[58]
Edited by: ShadowlordUK on 26/07/2005 12:42:42
The people get scammed are idiots but the 'scammers' themselves are possibly the most pathetic people in the game and definately deserve to have their actual accounts refunded and banned (not just the alts they make).
Thats quite an impressive achievement considering all the long range gankers, griefers, corp thieves, ore thieves etc already playing.... 
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2005.07.26 13:13:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Moghydin
There's a huge gap between scamming or pirating or griefing. Pirate or a griefer force themselves on an unsuspecting and unprepared victim. In escrow if you don't want to buy 1 unit of trit, called Apoc, just don't push the "Yes" button. It's that simple.
The people that push the "yes" button are therefore unsuspecting and unprepared. Much the same as the person who travels in lowsec in hauler without escourt, scouts or instas.
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Randuin MaraL
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Posted - 2005.07.26 13:29:00 -
[60]
IBTL?
____________________________________________________
Never be in the company of anyone with whom you would not want to die.
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