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Selim	Posted - 2005.07.23 23:54:00 - [1] Malediction current: 5% bonus to EM missile damage per level Malediction new: 10% bonus to laser optimal range per level Crusader current: 5% bonus to laser tracking per level Crusader new: 10% bonus to laser optimal range per level Thanks.
slapp	Posted - 2005.07.24 00:01:00 - [2] Nope, pulses are meant to be close range __________________________________________________ CAREBEAR, n. A member of a large and powerful tribe whose influence in CCP affairs has always been dominant and controling.
The Enslaver	Posted - 2005.07.24 00:05:00 - [3] Malediction: Agree. Crusader: Agree. Wow. Selim suggesting something that won't actually nerf Amarr ships? -------- FireFoxx80: If you think you can do a better job, go find yourself a datacentre to host a box, get a copy of Visual Studio, and STFU.
Gunstar Zero	Posted - 2005.07.24 00:06:00 - [4] sounds fair enough, wouldnt they be better with laser dmg bonuses tho?
Xavier Belt	Posted - 2005.07.24 00:06:00 - [5] That would give them nearly Cruiser-range weaponry with beam-guns. Ick. I don't think Interceptors are supposed to be long ranged. -- @BrerRabbit> you have to be the iron mallet of reason @Quixzlizx> right now he's being the "stupid comedian" of reason
Robstr	Posted - 2005.07.24 00:10:00 - [6] I would be much happier with damage bonii. Atleast on the sader, the other 3 attack ceptors get %50 damage bonii why not the sader? The malediction however could use some other kind of missle bonus, like explosion velocity.
Selim	Posted - 2005.07.24 00:10:00 - [7] Edited by: Selim on 24/07/2005 00:12:56 Originally by: Gunstar Zero sounds fair enough, wouldnt they be better with laser dmg bonuses tho? Hey... if CCP decides to give a second damage bonus to these two ships, they can be my guest. Originally by: Xavier Belt That would give them nearly Cruiser-range weaponry with beam-guns. Ick. I don't think Interceptors are supposed to be long ranged. Crusader traditionaly is long range, as of lately its been kind of crap though. The tracking bonus is fairly useless. Malediction's EM damage bonus is stupid too, nobody uses gremlins on them because lasers do craploads of EM anyway. An optimal bonus here would be great too... because I said so. Quote: I would be much happier with damage bonii. Atleast on the sader, the other 3 attack ceptors get %50 damage bonii why not the sader? The malediction however could use some other kind of missle bonus, like explosion velocity. Well, it doesnt get 10% because that would mean a crusader would outdamage a taranis by a fair margin. At least I think thats the case. I think everyone is fine with the damage output of the amarr inties.
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.07.24 00:18:00 - [8] They wont get a 2nd damage bonus because the crusader already has 4 guns, you idiots. Originally by: Sochin CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
Nafri	Posted - 2005.07.24 00:18:00 - [9] 10% to falloff would be better :D Your bla bla hit bla bla for bla bla damage. Wanna have some bubu now?
Robstr	Posted - 2005.07.24 00:25:00 - [10] I've changed my mind, I think the best thing to do woudl be to lower med-beam/pulse grid reqs down to 280 levels. Still think the Malediction needs a different missle bonus.

Nyxus	Posted - 2005.07.24 00:35:00 - [11] Edited by: Nyxus on 24/07/2005 00:35:34 I agree with Selim 100%. Beams are too big to fit. Pulses lack any power after the radio crystal nerf. This would help even the field among the interceptors. As it is now "Heavy Pulse laser II strikes you perfectly, tickling slightly with em damage." Besides which, Amarr inties look sweet, I would like to see someone flying them again. All I see now are claws and ranises (rani? wth is plural of Taranis?) Nyxus
Voltron	Posted - 2005.07.24 00:45:00 - [12] rani ftw nyxus.........rani ftw Volt
Hanns	Posted - 2005.07.24 00:47:00 - [13] I agree also, i havent even bothered flying my sader or diction since the laser nerf, also plate claws scare me
Julien Derida	Posted - 2005.07.24 03:57:00 - [14] I think this is a great idea Selim. However, I'm suprised that you are suggesting it. Back when we were first discussing the pulse-nerf, you claimed many times that the ability of small pulses to hit outside of web range was overpowered(Despite numerous arguments to the contrary from myself and Meridius). Now you're suggesting a change which would essentially return the Crusader and Malediction to their pre pulse-nerf selves... Does this mean that somehow you've miraculously realised that we were right all along? ---------------------------------------- Chief Inspector of the Style Police - FRICK
Meridius	Posted - 2005.07.24 04:19:00 - [15] Originally by: Selim Malediction current: 5% bonus to EM missile damage per level Malediction new: 10% bonus to laser optimal range per level Crusader current: 5% bonus to laser tracking per level Crusader new: 10% bonus to laser optimal range per level Thanks. Who are you and what did you do with Selim (i agree totally, atm, the Crusader is just a ****ty Taranis/Claw wanabee) ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2005.07.24 04:20:00 - [16] Originally by: Julien Derida I think this is a great idea Selim. However, I'm suprised that you are suggesting it. Back when we were first discussing the pulse-nerf, you claimed many times that the ability of small pulses to hit outside of web range was overpowered(Despite numerous arguments to the contrary from myself and Meridius). Now you're suggesting a change which would essentially return the Crusader and Malediction to their pre pulse-nerf selves... Does this mean that somehow you've miraculously realised that we were right all along? ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2005.07.24 04:22:00 - [17] Originally by: Selim Well, it doesnt get 10% because that would mean a crusader would outdamage a taranis by a fair margin. Perhaps but i think only by a bit. The Crusader has to use ion equivilents while a Taranis can romp around with 3 neutrons and 2 dmg mods. Anyway, i think the range bonus is a better idea then more dmg. ________________________________________________________
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.07.24 05:06:00 - [18] It would basically be an unnerf of pulses for the inty class. Originally by: Sochin CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
Selim	Posted - 2005.07.24 05:42:00 - [19] Edited by: Selim on 24/07/2005 05:43:08 Originally by: Julien Derida I think this is a great idea Selim. However, I'm suprised that you are suggesting it. Back when we were first discussing the pulse-nerf, you claimed many times that the ability of small pulses to hit outside of web range was overpowered(Despite numerous arguments to the contrary from myself and Meridius). Now you're suggesting a change which would essentially return the Crusader and Malediction to their pre pulse-nerf selves... Does this mean that somehow you've miraculously realised that we were right all along? Well, I've actually always wanted optimal bonuses on at least the crusader. When the bonuses were being handed out during the inty buff, I kept asking for an optimal bonus instead of the ghey tracking bonus. And pulse overall WERE overpowered, and the small pulse needed to be nerfed too because they are smaller cousins of the big ones, but if I remember correctly I was always in favor of giving optimal range bonuses to the amarr inties so it really wouldnt affect them. Don't worry btw, nothing's changed.
Berilac	Posted - 2005.07.24 06:23:00 - [20] that would be bloody brilliant. good idea. stamp of approval

Shintoko Akahoshi	Posted - 2005.07.24 07:40:00 - [21] I'm all for it. It'd make my beam Crusader much happier, and I've always hated the Maledictions useless missile bonus, anyways.
Hiram	Posted - 2005.07.24 08:03:00 - [22] Perhpas we could get a reduction in CPU/ Grid requiremenst when fitting? then we might get more than 1 T2 weapon on the SOB!
Tiki Rar	Posted - 2005.07.24 08:26:00 - [23] Originally by: Hiram Perhpas we could get a reduction in CPU/ Grid requiremenst when fitting? then we might get more than 1 T2 weapon on the SOB! Yes t2 weps are a pain to fit , but how does weaponsu upgrades 5 and advancced weps upgrades 4/5 affect there fitting?. I like the changes to bonus cause the crusader is a bit poo compared to other intys :( Dual light pulse II's are bout all i can fit on it and they suck ----------- ]http://www.insane-mapping.tk[
LUKEC	Posted - 2005.07.24 09:34:00 - [24] Problem is: 4guns & 25% dmg is worse than 3 guns and 50% bonus. It should do more dmg, but you run into fitting problems. So maybe changing it to 3 guns and 50% dmg would not be bad(or give more grid/cpu to support 4 guns and dmg mods or plate). And it would not be overpowered in any way, because look at claw and 150mmII. Then go check crusader and gatling pulseII. Malediction should get a second bonus, lol.
Altai Saker	Posted - 2005.07.24 11:08:00 - [25] SIGNED
Meehan	Posted - 2005.07.24 14:38:00 - [26] Hmm, not sure I like this. I'd rather swap the Malediction's bonus for a 5% ROF to launchers... Crusader is fine the way it is, I think giving it an optimal bonus would make it somewhat overpowered.
Polydectes	Posted - 2005.07.24 16:31:00 - [27] Hell no, crusader needs that tracking bonus. That interceptor is meant to run a warp disruptor, orbit at 18km and out range its prey with dual light beams while warp disrupting it. If you put 4 cap power relays on the low slots, it runs the lasers, the mwd and the disruptor just fine. ------------------------------------------------- Violence is Golden
Elve Sorrow	Posted - 2005.07.24 16:34:00 - [28] And exactly what do you need tracking for at 18km? Optimal would help it much more, both with beams and pulse. /Elve
Joan Smith	Posted - 2005.07.24 19:18:00 - [29] Originally by: Selim Malediction current: 5% bonus to EM missile damage per level Malediction new: 10% bonus to laser optimal range per level Crusader current: 5% bonus to laser tracking per level Crusader new: 10% bonus to laser optimal range per level Thanks. /me agrees
God forbid	Posted - 2005.07.24 20:52:00 - [30] I fly Crusader I like it, like it is now but 10% bonus to laser optimal range would be Nice ***... :) dont care about what you would do to the malediction never use it.. :P DEAD*

Amon Evakrace	Posted - 2005.07.24 22:22:00 - [31] yeah this is great, make amarr even more overpowered, and while were at it, give the sac better bonuses too!
Sin Angel	Posted - 2005.07.24 22:31:00 - [32] signed
slapp	Posted - 2005.07.24 22:50:00 - [33] pulses are meant to be close range. deal with it. __________________________________________________ CAREBEAR, n. A member of a large and powerful tribe whose influence in CCP affairs has always been dominant and controling.
Meridius	Posted - 2005.07.24 23:31:00 - [34] Originally by: slapp pulses are meant to be close range. deal with it. We ignored you the first time. ________________________________________________________
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.07.24 23:44:00 - [35] Originally by: Meridius Originally by: slapp pulses are meant to be close range. deal with it. We ignored you the first time. Can i get a 10% bonus to falloff on my claw instead of the tracking bonus? Originally by: Sochin CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
Selim	Posted - 2005.07.25 00:19:00 - [36] Originally by: DrunkenOne Originally by: Meridius Originally by: slapp pulses are meant to be close range. deal with it. We ignored you the first time. Can i get a 10% bonus to falloff on my claw instead of the tracking bonus? I kinda like the tracking actually. No use for jaegerbombs, though.
Meridius	Posted - 2005.07.25 00:54:00 - [37] Originally by: DrunkenOne Can i get a 10% bonus to falloff on my claw instead of the tracking bonus? Make your own thread and ofc i know nothing of flying the Claw so i simply can't comment here to begin with ________________________________________________________
slapp	Posted - 2005.07.25 01:59:00 - [38] Originally by: Meridius Originally by: slapp pulses are meant to be close range. deal with it. We ignored you the first time. looks like it failed the second time __________________________________________________ CAREBEAR, n. A member of a large and powerful tribe whose influence in CCP affairs has always been dominant and controling.
Robstr	Posted - 2005.07.25 02:05:00 - [39] why do amarr ships have to be limited to pulses?
Felony Assualt	Posted - 2005.07.25 06:39:00 - [40] There's something wrong with the crusader?? Those who can, do; Those who cant, teach

Slithereen	Posted - 2005.07.25 06:48:00 - [41] I disagree on the Malediction. it was meant as a kind of Caldari-Amarr hybrid, and so it was intended as a missile firing inty. The new missile skills right now has helped the Malediction. On the Crusader I sort of feel like disagreeing too, because I feel that tracking is more important than the range and it nullifies the purpose the pulse nerf. Sorry. _______________________________________________ "Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies, "Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy. "Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
LUKEC	Posted - 2005.07.25 07:06:00 - [42] Originally by: Slithereen I disagree on the Malediction. it was meant as a kind of Caldari-Amarr hybrid, and so it was intended as a missile firing inty. The new missile skills right now has helped the Malediction. On the Crusader I sort of feel like disagreeing too, because I feel that tracking is more important than the range and it nullifies the purpose the pulse nerf. Sorry. Helped? Maybe you should explain how? Like reducing range of rockets to 6km? Oh and about spamming EM stuff from amarr ships is just waste of ammo.
Slithereen	Posted - 2005.07.25 07:10:00 - [43] Edited by: Slithereen on 25/07/2005 07:11:11 Look, I can hit up to 30km with lights. No problemo. Never liked rockets anyway. EMP, no one tanks against that, but everyone tanks against thermal, then kinetic, then explosive. Heck, even the NPCs are tanking this way. _______________________________________________ "Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies, "Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy. "Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
Razner Cerizo	Posted - 2005.07.25 08:13:00 - [44] Signed.
Ithildin	Posted - 2005.07.25 15:55:00 - [45] Un-Amarr, but signed anyway. Got any thoughts on the Ares and Raptor? :p -- If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please. Josameto III - Moon 1
Meridius	Posted - 2005.07.25 16:06:00 - [46] Originally by: Slithereen Edited by: Slithereen on 25/07/2005 07:11:11 Look, I can hit up to 30km with lights. No problemo. Never liked rockets anyway. EMP, no one tanks against that, but everyone tanks against thermal, then kinetic, then explosive. Heck, even the NPCs are tanking this way. People tank inties? No, people put plates on them which makes EM the worst damage type to do. Lasers don't need more tracking, that bonus is uncharacteristic on Amarr ships because we already have good tracking. The optimal bonus makes sense, the Sacrilege gets one as well as the Zealot. ________________________________________________________
Kyrie Allayson	Posted - 2005.07.25 16:40:00 - [47] /signed
Meridius	Posted - 2005.07.25 16:49:00 - [48] Edited by: Meridius on 25/07/2005 16:49:44 ________________________________________________________
Hesprax	Posted - 2005.07.25 18:24:00 - [49] Edited by: Hesprax on 25/07/2005 18:24:52 I agree with selim, so sighed. I've barely flown my crusader since the pulse nerf, and I've never flown the malediction much anyway except when flying as a tackler specifically. I love the claw, it's a great ship but it is ugly as heck, I'd love to be able to use my beautiful and classy looking crusader to tear apart other inties once again. As it stands it's just a poor claw/taranis clone (as already mentioned several times), so now I mostly use it for running around quickly and looking good, not really for serious combat.
Blind Fear	Posted - 2005.07.25 18:58:00 - [50] The malediction's missile damage bonus is totally worthless because you'd have to be retarded to use EM missiles on it. I'd rather see it get a different bonus though, since its more of a closer-ranged inty anyway. 5%/level armor resists would be interesting on an inty, IMO. The optimal bonus is good for the crusader though.

DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.07.25 19:14:00 - [51] Originally by: Blind Fear The malediction's missile damage bonus is totally worthless because you'd have to be retarded to use EM missiles on it. I'd rather see it get a different bonus though, since its more of a closer-ranged inty anyway. 5%/level armor resists would be interesting on an inty, IMO. The optimal bonus is good for the crusader though. my sig rules. Originally by: Sochin CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
Blind Fear	Posted - 2005.07.25 19:19:00 - [52] Originally by: DrunkenOne my sig rules. _\|_
Selim	Posted - 2005.07.25 19:27:00 - [53] Originally by: Blind Fear The malediction's missile damage bonus is totally worthless because you'd have to be retarded to use EM missiles on it. I'd rather see it get a different bonus though, since its more of a closer-ranged inty anyway. 5%/level armor resists would be interesting on an inty, IMO. The optimal bonus is good for the crusader though. Armor resists would be nice if maledictions were easy to fit with 400mms, but they arent.
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.07.25 19:29:00 - [54] Edited by: DrunkenOne on 25/07/2005 19:29:36 Originally by: Blind Fear Originally by: DrunkenOne my sig rules. _\|_ <3 hey someone had to put it on their sig, its presence is needed on the forums. Originally by: Sochin CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
j0sephine	Posted - 2005.07.25 19:32:00 - [55] "Armor resists would be nice if maledictions were easy to fit with 400mms, but they arent." Could always fit 200mm plate instead. Doubled armour for 10 mw of grid is more than nice...
Blind Fear	Posted - 2005.07.25 21:09:00 - [56] Originally by: Selim Armor resists would be nice if maledictions were easy to fit with 400mms, but they arent. I could do horrible, evil things with an armor resist bonus. 400mm plates arent the only modules for intys (even though it may seem otherwise sometimes).
Meridius	Posted - 2005.07.25 21:20:00 - [57] Originally by: Blind Fear Originally by: Selim Armor resists would be nice if maledictions were easy to fit with 400mms, but they arent. I could do horrible, evil things with an armor resist bonus. 400mm plates arent the only modules for intys (even though it may seem otherwise sometimes). Not too fond of defense based bonus's on interceptors. Kinda takes away from our already craptastic af's ________________________________________________________
Slithereen	Posted - 2005.07.26 01:25:00 - [58] Edited by: Slithereen on 26/07/2005 01:26:24 Originally by: Meridius People tank inties? No, people put plates on them which makes EM the worst damage type to do. Lasers don't need more tracking, that bonus is uncharacteristic on Amarr ships because we already have good tracking. That is in the context of an inty vs inty fight but I mean other ships not just inties. Quote: The optimal bonus makes sense, the Sacrilege gets one as well as the Zealot. Good point. So does the Vengeance and the Retributions--- "Assault Ships Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Small Energy Turret optimal range and 5% bonus to cap recharge rate per level" "Assault Ships Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Small Energy Turret optimal range and 5% bonus to Small Energy Turret damage per level." This would only bring the inties in line with the other ships. I change my vote to yes and yes. _______________________________________________ "Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies, "Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy. "Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
Meridius	Posted - 2005.07.26 03:30:00 - [59] Originally by: Slithereen So does the Vengeance and the Retributions--- "Assault Ships Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Small Energy Turret optimal range and 5% bonus to cap recharge rate per level" "Assault Ships Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Small Energy Turret optimal range and 5% bonus to Small Energy Turret damage per level." This would only bring the inties in line with the other ships. I change my vote to yes and yes. \o/ Oh yeah, forgot about those suck ships, don't use em much ________________________________________________________
Emeline Cabernet	Posted - 2005.07.26 05:30:00 - [60] signed esp on the malediction

Captin Biltmore	Posted - 2005.07.26 05:52:00 - [61] signed....since I'm amarr this would make me choose to train evasive manuvering 5....right now amarr intys are worthless.
Liu Kaskakka	Posted - 2005.07.26 06:16:00 - [62] I do not think this is needed since I cannot fly them.
Cheim	Posted - 2005.07.26 06:37:00 - [63] Originally by: Slithereen Quote: The optimal bonus makes sense, the Sacrilege gets one as well as the Zealot. Good point. So does the Vengeance and the Retributions--- So do the Enyo and Harpy and Muninn. Every assault ship, light and heavy, gets a range bonus -- optimal, falloff, or drone. Other Amarr ships don't. This bonus would be as uncharacteristic as tracking. At least the Malediction could justify it on the grounds that Caldari ships often have turret optimal bonuses, when they have turret bonuses at all.


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