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Florestan Bronstein
United Engineering Services
98
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 18:20:00 -
[31] - Quote
Gogurt wrote:
he's hypothetically botting for your masters
train a few additional levels in reading comprehension
There is a hypothetical player - Ibertizzle - who is a very keen ratter and may not reply to conversation requests for a few hours (but who probably does nothing wrong).
There may or may not be a real player (obviously not named Ibertizzle) who may have served as inspiration for this hypothetical character (but who can say for sure?) and this real player may or may not run bots.
You are just trying to confuse these two characters... |

Comrade Commizzar
Eve Revolutionary Army
4
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 18:20:00 -
[32] - Quote
Lyris Nairn wrote:Comrade Commizzar wrote:Baver Juice wrote:Is it true that a handful of people, through their alliances, control 50% of null sec space, and are using this position to engage in RMT? Yes and to add insult to injury, YOU as the new recruit assume the role of a small cog in the machine that does this (and to a large extent you fund yourself in this role). Promises of ship replacement programs are hit and miss and all you really receive in return is a hall pass to get you through alliance gate camps. Now that you understand your role as "Peasant Farmer and Cannon Fodder" for your Rulers... aren't you really enthusiastic to go join? This is true of all feudal systems, including those found in MMO guilds. This is not new news.
Yes, but why any sane person would PAY a subscription in order to perform the role of a SERF is still a mystery.
I chalk it up to ignorance about the game mechanics. That's why I keep posting to educate the masses. |

Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1712
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 18:22:00 -
[33] - Quote
Comrade Commizzar wrote:Lyris Nairn wrote:Comrade Commizzar wrote:Baver Juice wrote:Is it true that a handful of people, through their alliances, control 50% of null sec space, and are using this position to engage in RMT? Yes and to add insult to injury, YOU as the new recruit assume the role of a small cog in the machine that does this (and to a large extent you fund yourself in this role). Promises of ship replacement programs are hit and miss and all you really receive in return is a hall pass to get you through alliance gate camps. Now that you understand your role as "Peasant Farmer and Cannon Fodder" for your Rulers... aren't you really enthusiastic to go join? This is true of all feudal systems, including those found in MMO guilds. This is not new news. Yes, but why any sane person would PAY a subscription in order to perform the role of a SERF is still a mystery. I chalk it up to ignorance about the game mechanics. That's why I keep posting to educate the masses. If it were a mystery then I suspect that every MMO ever wouldn't have simultaneously figured out how to use it to generate money for its developers. |

Gogurt
38
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 18:22:00 -
[34] - Quote
Florestan Bronstein wrote:Gogurt wrote:
he's hypothetically botting for your masters
train a few additional levels in reading comprehension There is a hypothetical player - Ibertizzle - who is a very keen ratter and may not reply to conversation requests for a few hours (but who probably does nothing wrong). There may or may not be a real player (obviously not named Ibertizzle) who may have served as inspiration for this hypothetical character (but who can say for sure?) and this real player may or may not run bots. You are just trying to confuse these two characters...
No ****, we're speaking hypothetically, that's why I used the word hypothetically |

Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1712
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 18:24:00 -
[35] - Quote
Florestan Bronstein wrote:Gogurt wrote:
he's hypothetically botting for your masters
train a few additional levels in reading comprehension There is a hypothetical player - Ibertizzle - who is a very keen ratter and may not reply to conversation requests for a few hours (but who probably does nothing wrong). There may or may not be a real player (obviously not named Ibertizzle) who may have served as inspiration for this hypothetical character (but who can say for sure?) and this real player may or may not run bots. You are just trying to confuse these two characters... I think it's not so much a deliberate effort to confuse the two characters, the hypothetical Ibertizzle and the unnamed factual character whom may or may not even exist, inasmuch as it is simply a failure in our public schools to educate the children with regards to rhetoric and logic. Gotta focus on passing those standardized tests, useful life skills be damned! |

Comrade Commizzar
Eve Revolutionary Army
5
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 18:30:00 -
[36] - Quote
Lyris Nairn wrote:Comrade Commizzar wrote:Lyris Nairn wrote:Comrade Commizzar wrote:Baver Juice wrote:Is it true that a handful of people, through their alliances, control 50% of null sec space, and are using this position to engage in RMT? Yes and to add insult to injury, YOU as the new recruit assume the role of a small cog in the machine that does this (and to a large extent you fund yourself in this role). Promises of ship replacement programs are hit and miss and all you really receive in return is a hall pass to get you through alliance gate camps. Now that you understand your role as "Peasant Farmer and Cannon Fodder" for your Rulers... aren't you really enthusiastic to go join? This is true of all feudal systems, including those found in MMO guilds. This is not new news. Yes, but why any sane person would PAY a subscription in order to perform the role of a SERF is still a mystery. I chalk it up to ignorance about the game mechanics. That's why I keep posting to educate the masses. If it were a mystery then I suspect that every MMO ever wouldn't have simultaneously figured out how to use it to generate money for its developers.
You just misdirected the line of discussion to the interests of the developers... but we were discussing the SUBSCRIBERS' interests.. I restate that why a SUBSCRIBER would rationally pay to perform the role of SERF is a mystery. I also restate that I believe it is only because the new subscriber is unaware of the real power structure in zero that he does this. He does not at first recognize his serfdom.
Once the general population of EVE understands this, they might very well be willing to pay a subscription just for the chance to unify and sweep the trash out of zero. |

Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1714
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 18:40:00 -
[37] - Quote
Or they might be willing to pay a subscription fee just to play the game because they like it without regard to your personal gripes about null sec space politics in EVE Online a serious business game about spaceships. I mean, someone out there has to be paying CCP real money for subscriptions. I know that none of my squad mates actually pay real money for EVE, and I doubt many members of my corporation or alliance do either. |

Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1714
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 18:40:00 -
[38] - Quote
The PLEX gotta come from somewhere, may as well be your bitter ass. |

Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
74
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 18:47:00 -
[39] - Quote
If you want to see the magnitude of the problem, google "eve isk". CCP employees should never proclaim a feature to be awesome. Only subscribers should. |

Proteus Maximus
The Red Exhilez Chaos Theory Alliance
8
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 18:49:00 -
[40] - Quote
Quote:Now that you understand your role as "Peasant Farmer and Cannon Fodder" for your Rulers... aren't you really enthusiastic to go join?
Not in a million fking years. Eve... It's just a better class of Idiot. |

Tetragammatron Prime
Pink Sockers
5
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 18:52:00 -
[41] - Quote
Lyris Nairn wrote:Tetragammatron Prime wrote:Every 0.0 alliance I've been in had people selling isk for cash; either openly on alliance forums or through word of mouth. You just admitted to being an accomplice to violating the EULA and then covering it up to avoid action. I am petitioning you right now.
even goons do it...also they trade photos of their genitals for isk/cap skills books |

Kitty McKitty
In Praise Of Shadows
358
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 18:53:00 -
[42] - Quote
Schr+¦dingers macro tengu GÖÑ Haviing your portrait painted here helps INTAKI Disabled Children GÖÑ |

Comrade Commizzar
Eve Revolutionary Army
5
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 18:54:00 -
[43] - Quote
Lyris Nairn wrote:Or they might be willing to pay a subscription fee just to play the game because they like it without regard to your personal gripes about null sec space politics in EVE Online a serious business game about spaceships. I mean, someone out there has to be paying CCP real money for subscriptions. I know that none of my squad mates actually pay real money for EVE, and I doubt many members of my corporation or alliance do either.
Oh I use Plex bought with isk for my sub too, but I am sure that new players pay cash for their sub and why they would use it to support the theives and scammers of zero can only be due to ignorance on their part. |

Comrade Commizzar
Eve Revolutionary Army
5
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 18:55:00 -
[44] - Quote
Lyris Nairn wrote:The PLEX gotta come from somewhere, may as well be your bitter ass. I'm not bitter. i'm just opposed to noob slavery. |

Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1715
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 18:56:00 -
[45] - Quote
Tetragammatron Prime wrote:Lyris Nairn wrote:Tetragammatron Prime wrote:Every 0.0 alliance I've been in had people selling isk for cash; either openly on alliance forums or through word of mouth. You just admitted to being an accomplice to violating the EULA and then covering it up to avoid action. I am petitioning you right now. goons ... trade photos of their genitals for isk/cap skills books
Confirming the clusterfuck out of this.
|

Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1715
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 18:57:00 -
[46] - Quote
Comrade Commizzar wrote:Lyris Nairn wrote:The PLEX gotta come from somewhere, may as well be your bitter ass. I'm not bitter. i'm just opposed to noob slavery. And yet you perpetrate it by paying for your account with PLEX. I am at least honest with my indifference to "noob slavery". |

Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1715
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 18:58:00 -
[47] - Quote
Kitty McKitty wrote:Schr+¦dingers macro tengu Are you hypothetically alleging that investigating the hypothetical Ibertizzle's ratting behavior would hypothetically cause that behavior to change? |

Comrade Commizzar
Eve Revolutionary Army
5
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 18:59:00 -
[48] - Quote
Proteus Maximus wrote:Quote:Now that you understand your role as "Peasant Farmer and Cannon Fodder" for your Rulers... aren't you really enthusiastic to go join? Not in a million fking years.
Now there... You see? This gentleman has BALLS! He is clearly educated and WILL NOT SUBMIT.
VICTORY! One pilot at a time. Maybe in time he and others will organize and wipe the oppressing Oligarchs out of zero.
Anyway I'll keep posting for it. |

Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1716
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 19:01:00 -
[49] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:If you want to see the magnitude of the problem, google "eve isk". And thats just the public side. Members of the same corp, alliance or coalition can do RMT without a web site or suspicious isk transfers, as alliance members help each other out with isk or item transfers all the time. How can CCP tell if real money is also transferred? It sounds to me like your issue is with friends helping each other. I gave my buddy Chris something like 5 billion ISK when I sponsored him into Goonfleet. Did that have anything to do with the fact that he bought me lunch that week? No. It had everything to do with the fact that he's my friend, and I was trying to see to it that he could have fun exploring the game without having to worry about having enough space money to try out this or that thing. Amazingly this sort of behavior is common among friends, among corporation members, among alliance members, and especially among groups that exist outside of the game (such as Goonfleet, Merch Industrial, Dreddit, and so on). |

Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1716
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 19:01:00 -
[50] - Quote
duplicate post we were ganked |

Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1716
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 19:02:00 -
[51] - Quote
Comrade Commizzar wrote:Proteus Maximus wrote:Quote:Now that you understand your role as "Peasant Farmer and Cannon Fodder" for your Rulers... aren't you really enthusiastic to go join? Not in a million fking years. Now there... You see? This gentleman has BALLS! He is clearly educated and WILL NOT SUBMIT. VICTORY! One pilot at a time. Maybe in time he and others will organize and wipe the oppressing Oligarchs out of zero. Anyway I'll keep posting for it. How can he organize and wipe us out if he can't even be bothered to log into the game? |

Sebero Sinak
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
8
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 19:02:00 -
[52] - Quote
I believe the OP was trolling to keep the botting issue in the headlines.
I have personally hunted down over 12 bots/isk farmers and CCP has given them at least temporary bans.
I stopped hunting them because of the great effort involved in documenting a good case to present to CCP.
Bots are everywhere , one of the favored methods for the RMT's and botters is highsec transportation lvl 4s - usually run in Bestower's.
First and foremost, it breaks the gameplay.
The most popular way for RMT sellers to get their hands on the product that theyGÇÖre peddling is to use bots to farm or abuse exploits. Neither is a case of the game being played as intended.
RMT also hurts the in-game economy. By bringing in extra resources and currency, it simply changes the relative scarcity of items, and thus alters their price.
Then thereGÇÖs the fact that RMT dealers also often engage in illegal activities including credit card fraud and hacking.
Finally, and possibly most surprising at least from a playerGÇÖs point of view is the fact that RMT dealers actually put a noticeable strain on a gameGÇÖs resources and systems both human (Customer Support) and hardware.
There is only one sure way to rid a game of RMT and bots - don't buy stuff from them. |

Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor The Seventh Day
68
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 19:03:00 -
[53] - Quote
Baver Juice wrote:Is it true that a handful of people, through their alliances, control 50% of null sec space, and are using this position to engage in RMT?
All of you fools are posting in a thread created by a 2 day old toon, asking an obvious troll baiting question.
One of you is his alt. Everyone else... you should be proud of your intellect  |

Comrade Commizzar
Eve Revolutionary Army
5
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 19:04:00 -
[54] - Quote
Lyris Nairn wrote:Comrade Commizzar wrote:Lyris Nairn wrote:The PLEX gotta come from somewhere, may as well be your bitter ass. I'm not bitter. i'm just opposed to noob slavery. And yet you perpetrate it by paying for your account with PLEX. I am at least honest with my indifference to "noob slavery".
No.. YOU are just a small useless cog who slaves away on one of the largest plantations in zero. I really don't know how you can look yourself in the mirror each morning given such low self esteem. |

Kitty McKitty
In Praise Of Shadows
359
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 19:04:00 -
[55] - Quote
Lyris Nairn wrote:Kitty McKitty wrote:Schr+¦dingers macro tengu Are you hypothetically alleging that investigating the hypothetical Ibertizzle's ratting behavior would hypothetically cause that behavior to change? Nothing hypothetical about it. Jumping into system (to investigate) WOULD cause their behaviour to change to logoffski. GÖÑ Haviing your portrait painted here helps INTAKI Disabled Children GÖÑ |

Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1716
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 19:06:00 -
[56] - Quote
Sebero Sinak wrote: I believe the OP was trolling to keep the botting issue in the headlines.
I have personally hunted down over 12 bots/isk farmers and CCP has given them at least temporary bans.
I stopped hunting them because of the great effort involved in documenting a good case to present to CCP.
Bots are everywhere , one of the favored methods for the RMT's and botters is highsec transportation lvl 4s - usually run in Bestower's.
First and foremost, it breaks the gameplay.
The most popular way for RMT sellers to get their hands on the product that theyGÇÖre peddling is to use bots to farm or abuse exploits. Neither is a case of the game being played as intended.
RMT also hurts the in-game economy. By bringing in extra resources and currency, it simply changes the relative scarcity of items, and thus alters their price.
Then thereGÇÖs the fact that RMT dealers also often engage in illegal activities including credit card fraud and hacking.
Finally, and possibly most surprising at least from a playerGÇÖs point of view is the fact that RMT dealers actually put a noticeable strain on a gameGÇÖs resources and systems both human (Customer Support) and hardware.
There is only one sure way to rid a game of RMT and bots - don't buy stuff from them.
I do not support the use of bots, but the arguments you make against them are rubbish.
A thing that Person A has does not invalidate the effort of Person B just because Person B does not have it, when it is entirely possible for Person B to acquire it. In this case, the "thing" is a bot. In order for RMT and botting to hurt the economy, there would have to be a monopoly by Person A or Group A on the RMT behavior or botting software. I am going to assume that this is not the case. So long as you, me, or anyone else so inclined can pick up a bot or engage in RMT then there exists no advantage or upset in favor of those who already do bot or RMT, except the advantage we give them by not participating. You are trying to white-knight the issue because it's the "good guy" thing to do, while framing your arguments in term of pragmatism that simply does not exist. |

Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1716
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 19:09:00 -
[57] - Quote
Comrade Commizzar wrote:Lyris Nairn wrote:Comrade Commizzar wrote:Lyris Nairn wrote:The PLEX gotta come from somewhere, may as well be your bitter ass. I'm not bitter. i'm just opposed to noob slavery. And yet you perpetrate it by paying for your account with PLEX. I am at least honest with my indifference to "noob slavery". No.. YOU are just a small useless cog who slaves away on one of the largest plantations in zero. I really don't know how you can look yourself in the mirror each morning given such low self esteem. I don't slave away in the space plantations or whatever the hell your gimmick is. I hardly even log in to this game. When I do, I fly Rifters and lead fleets of Rifters to do things that have no strategic importance. But even if I was a cog in the works, what of it? There is nothing wrong with being part of a group and enjoying your place in it. I'm a military veteran in real lifeGÇöyou're not going to convince me that teamwork and group cohesion while working towards a common goal are bad things. I doubt you will even convince the average kid reading this forum. What you will do is give me reasons to post, which in turn will increase my opportunities to receive "likes" here on the forums DOT eveonline DOT com. |

Comrade Commizzar
Eve Revolutionary Army
5
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 19:10:00 -
[58] - Quote
Lyris Nairn wrote:Sebero Sinak wrote: I believe the OP was trolling to keep the botting issue in the headlines.
I have personally hunted down over 12 bots/isk farmers and CCP has given them at least temporary bans.
I stopped hunting them because of the great effort involved in documenting a good case to present to CCP.
Bots are everywhere , one of the favored methods for the RMT's and botters is highsec transportation lvl 4s - usually run in Bestower's.
First and foremost, it breaks the gameplay.
The most popular way for RMT sellers to get their hands on the product that theyGÇÖre peddling is to use bots to farm or abuse exploits. Neither is a case of the game being played as intended.
RMT also hurts the in-game economy. By bringing in extra resources and currency, it simply changes the relative scarcity of items, and thus alters their price.
Then thereGÇÖs the fact that RMT dealers also often engage in illegal activities including credit card fraud and hacking.
Finally, and possibly most surprising at least from a playerGÇÖs point of view is the fact that RMT dealers actually put a noticeable strain on a gameGÇÖs resources and systems both human (Customer Support) and hardware.
There is only one sure way to rid a game of RMT and bots - don't buy stuff from them. I do not support the use of bots, but the arguments you make against them are rubbish. A thing that Person A has does not invalidate the effort of Person B just because Person B does not have it, when it is entirely possible for Person B to acquire it. In this case, the "thing" is a bot. In order for RMT and botting to hurt the economy, there would have to be a monopoly by Person A or Group A on the RMT behavior or botting software. I am going to assume that this is not the case. So long as you, me, or anyone else so inclined can pick up a bot or engage in RMT then there exists no advantage or upset in favor of those who already do bot or RMT, except the advantage we give them by not participating. You are trying to white-knight the issue because it's the "good guy" thing to do, while framing your arguments in term of pragmatism that simply does not exist.
as if your counter arguement to that gents arguement isn't "full of rubbish" (as you put it). Really, anyone who can't see that botting distorts a game is pretty much an idiot. |

Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1716
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 19:13:00 -
[59] - Quote
Comrade Commizzar wrote:Lyris Nairn wrote:Sebero Sinak wrote: I believe the OP was trolling to keep the botting issue in the headlines.
I have personally hunted down over 12 bots/isk farmers and CCP has given them at least temporary bans.
I stopped hunting them because of the great effort involved in documenting a good case to present to CCP.
Bots are everywhere , one of the favored methods for the RMT's and botters is highsec transportation lvl 4s - usually run in Bestower's.
First and foremost, it breaks the gameplay.
The most popular way for RMT sellers to get their hands on the product that theyGÇÖre peddling is to use bots to farm or abuse exploits. Neither is a case of the game being played as intended.
RMT also hurts the in-game economy. By bringing in extra resources and currency, it simply changes the relative scarcity of items, and thus alters their price.
Then thereGÇÖs the fact that RMT dealers also often engage in illegal activities including credit card fraud and hacking.
Finally, and possibly most surprising at least from a playerGÇÖs point of view is the fact that RMT dealers actually put a noticeable strain on a gameGÇÖs resources and systems both human (Customer Support) and hardware.
There is only one sure way to rid a game of RMT and bots - don't buy stuff from them. I do not support the use of bots, but the arguments you make against them are rubbish. A thing that Person A has does not invalidate the effort of Person B just because Person B does not have it, when it is entirely possible for Person B to acquire it. In this case, the "thing" is a bot. In order for RMT and botting to hurt the economy, there would have to be a monopoly by Person A or Group A on the RMT behavior or botting software. I am going to assume that this is not the case. So long as you, me, or anyone else so inclined can pick up a bot or engage in RMT then there exists no advantage or upset in favor of those who already do bot or RMT, except the advantage we give them by not participating. You are trying to white-knight the issue because it's the "good guy" thing to do, while framing your arguments in term of pragmatism that simply does not exist. as if your counter arguement to that gents arguement isn't "full of rubbish" (as you put it). Really, anyone who can't see that botting distorts a game is pretty much an idiot. I question the integrity of anyone electing to use an ad hominem argument rather than one based on merits. |

Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
16
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 19:14:00 -
[60] - Quote
botting is not essentially equal to RMT
Just thought i would write it there. |
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