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HollyShocker 2inthestink
State War Academy Caldari State
161
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Posted - 2013.02.20 22:30:00 -
[151] - Quote
Joran Dravius wrote:HollyShocker 2inthestink wrote:So who where these Vets when eve first started? Me. This may come as a surprise to you, but Eve had a beta. Experienced players were forming corps on the very first day of launch. Takseen wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:
It's just like Real World militaries. Few military service members fight, but ALL train to fight and defend themselves, not only for their own well being, but for their buddies. .
Then corporations are misnamed? In case you haven't noticed, the entire Caldari state is made up of corporations. Pony Express couriers were armed IRL. Being a corporation doesn't mean you don't fight. Whitehound wrote:Who are you to call new players ignorant? Someone who speaks the English language. Ignorant means you don't have knowledge about something. New players are ignorant. That's what makes them new players. When they've been playing long enough to be knowledgeable they're not new players anymore.
LMAO beta doesnt make you a vet and sure as hell doesnt make you knowledgable. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
2824
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Posted - 2013.02.20 22:35:00 -
[152] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:This is an absolute standing order for the high sec alliance I associate with, and all the industrial corps I've run.
BUT, this is the agreement LONG before I let the potential recruits join.
FIRST, they have to be interested in industry, THEN not interested in PVP, then agree to NOT loose a ship should we get a war dec.
When I ran a corp, if you lost a ship during a war, you were kicked out of my corp, and you KNEW that before joining.
While I think that's a terrible way to run a corp in a competitive game like Eve, you're up front with your expectations and everyone knows what they're getting into when they sign on. Fair enough.
LHA Tarawa wrote:For an industrialist, WAR is bad for profits and is to be avoided at all costs. As I've pointed out before, I'd rather lose 1 billion ISK by not undocking than undock, make 1 billion, and lose 100 million to war targets. WHY? Not because of the loss... Because of the additional war decs the loss will bring.
The ONLY way to limit the number of war decs that you get, is to blue ball the war dec'ers. It is our ONLY defense against the dec system.
I can think of much better ways to blue ball them (us). Try getting more creative than "don't undock". Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement. |
Joran Dravius
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
123
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Posted - 2013.02.20 22:38:00 -
[153] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Psychotic Monk wrote:LHA Tarawa wrote: I don't think anyone is telling the new players this stuff.
It is literally happening, yes. I've seen internal mails from corps I've decced to not undock anything for the entire duration of the war because if they lose something it will encourage other people to also dec them. It is a sad, ****** state of affairs. This is an absolute standing order for the high sec alliance I associate with, and all the industrial corps I've run. BUT, this is the agreement LONG before I let the potential recruits join. FIRST, they have to be interested in industry, THEN not interested in PVP, then agree to NOT loose a ship should we get a war dec. When I ran a corp, if you lost a ship during a war, you were kicked out of my corp, and you KNEW that before joining. For an industrialist, WAR is bad for profits and is to be avoided at all costs. As I've pointed out before, I'd rather lose 1 billion ISK by not undocking than undock, make 1 billion, and lose 100 million to war targets. WHY? Not because of the loss... Because of the additional war decs the loss will bring. The ONLY way to limit the number of war decs that you get, is to blue ball the war dec'ers. It is our ONLY defense against the dec system. Can anyone really be that stupid or are you trolling? High sec war decers are the equivalent of the school bully, not the Crips. They're looking for easy targets. You fight back and they leave. Even if you do it in cheap ships as long as you're not completely pants-on-head ******** you'll drive them off. Say you fight them and you lose two thoraxes, 5 merlins and a hurricane and then you're right back to work again. Compare that with the cost of staying docked for a week. |
EI Digin
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
517
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Posted - 2013.02.20 22:40:00 -
[154] - Quote
If you want to fight people just get 10000 friends and you can defeat anyone.
Trust me. |
Whitehound
896
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Posted - 2013.02.20 22:41:00 -
[155] - Quote
Joran Dravius wrote:... All newbies are ignorant ... Are you still stuck on this?! Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Whitehound
896
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Posted - 2013.02.20 22:43:00 -
[156] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:I'm curious, what exactly do you think "his cause" is? It sounds pretty much like "Do not shoot my barge. It is bad for the economy." Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Psychotic Monk
The Skunkworks
740
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Posted - 2013.02.20 22:43:00 -
[157] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Psychotic Monk wrote:LHA Tarawa wrote: I don't think anyone is telling the new players this stuff.
It is literally happening, yes. I've seen internal mails from corps I've decced to not undock anything for the entire duration of the war because if they lose something it will encourage other people to also dec them. It is a sad, ****** state of affairs. This is an absolute standing order for the high sec alliance I associate with, and all the industrial corps I've run. BUT, this is the agreement LONG before I let the potential recruits join. FIRST, they have to be interested in industry, THEN not interested in PVP, then agree to NOT loose a ship should we get a war dec. When I ran a corp, if you lost a ship during a war, you were kicked out of my corp, and you KNEW that before joining. For an industrialist, WAR is bad for profits and is to be avoided at all costs. As I've pointed out before, I'd rather lose 1 billion ISK by not undocking than undock, make 1 billion, and lose 100 million to war targets. WHY? Not because of the loss... Because of the additional war decs the loss will bring. The ONLY way to limit the number of war decs that you get, is to blue ball the war dec'ers. It is our ONLY defense against the dec system.
Speaking as the CEO of a wardec corp: that's patently untrue. When selecting targets I look for size an activity first. If they've got a history of losing expensive **** continually, I will definatly dec them, but having no loss history is of the same value as having a regular loss history as far as my decision to dec.
I will tell you of a corp several weeks ago that we were more or less forced to leave alone. They, like many of our targets, had several times our numbers. They were concentrated into about three or four systems, and when we were nearby they all dropped what they were doing and got into combat ships. There was maybe one BS on the field on their side. They'd usually have 2-4 rep boats, mostly of the t1 variety, and often but not always fielded a blackbird. Their fleets were roughly armor-themed, but that wasn't a hard and fast rule.
We never had enough dudes to break their reps and we couldn't catch anybody on their own. We lost some boats and ended up deciding we they weren't worth ******* with. gg
What we did see of their loss history showed fits that were somewhat derpy but still clearly good enough, considering their numbers advantage. Many of their pilots were less than a month old.
If everyone were on that level we'd either be put out of business or forced to radically alter our ways of doing business.
Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement. |
Joran Dravius
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
123
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Posted - 2013.02.20 22:46:00 -
[158] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Joran Dravius wrote:... All newbies are ignorant ... Are you still stuck on this?! I wasn't until I noticed you started calling me names. Are you going to address what I said or keep changing the subject because you can't win? |
Takseen
University of Caille Gallente Federation
261
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Posted - 2013.02.20 22:46:00 -
[159] - Quote
Joran Dravius wrote:Takseen wrote:Aye, and fair play to ya. I have a bunch of BNI propaganda saved in a folder. Very impressive. I vaguely remember you from before I quit. I don't really remember who you are, but I instinctively get angry every time I see your name on the forum. I'm guessing at some point you were saying a lot of stuff I didn't like. Good news though! I've seen a lot of your posts since coming back and none of them made me want to pod you, or at least not more than I already want to pod most people. So...uh...congratulations? Keep up the good work I guess.
CCP basically changed everything about the game I didn't like, so now I have very little left to complain about. Also I got to join a public fw fleet with people who actually knew what they were doing, got a few kills, and now I kinda wonder why more people don't get into pvp themselves.
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Whitehound
896
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Posted - 2013.02.20 22:48:00 -
[160] - Quote
Joran Dravius wrote:Whitehound wrote:Joran Dravius wrote:... All newbies are ignorant ... Are you still stuck on this?! I wasn't until I noticed you started calling me names. Are you going to address what I said or keep changing the subject because you can't win? What is it you want to know? Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
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Joran Dravius
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
123
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Posted - 2013.02.20 22:48:00 -
[161] - Quote
Takseen wrote:Joran Dravius wrote:Takseen wrote:Aye, and fair play to ya. I have a bunch of BNI propaganda saved in a folder. Very impressive. I vaguely remember you from before I quit. I don't really remember who you are, but I instinctively get angry every time I see your name on the forum. I'm guessing at some point you were saying a lot of stuff I didn't like. Good news though! I've seen a lot of your posts since coming back and none of them made me want to pod you, or at least not more than I already want to pod most people. So...uh...congratulations? Keep up the good work I guess. CCP basically changed everything about the game I didn't like, so now I have very little left to complain about. Also I got to join a public fw fleet with people who actually knew what they were doing, got a few kills, and now I kinda wonder why more people don't get into pvp themselves. What changes were those? Your answer determines whether I resume hating you.
Whitehound wrote:What is it you want to know? Are you saying you quoted my post without reading it? |
Whitehound
896
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Posted - 2013.02.20 22:51:00 -
[162] - Quote
Joran Dravius wrote:Whitehound wrote:What is it you want to know? Are you saying you quoted my post without reading it? No. I have dismissed it as yet another rant.
Is there anything else you want to ask me? Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Joran Dravius
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
123
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Posted - 2013.02.20 22:52:00 -
[163] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Joran Dravius wrote:Whitehound wrote:What is it you want to know? Are you saying you quoted my post without reading it? No. I have dismissed it as yet another rant. Is there anything else you want to ask me? Very well, I accept your surrender. |
Whitehound
896
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Posted - 2013.02.20 22:53:00 -
[164] - Quote
Joran Dravius wrote:Whitehound wrote:Joran Dravius wrote:Whitehound wrote:What is it you want to know? Are you saying you quoted my post without reading it? No. I have dismissed it as yet another rant. Is there anything else you want to ask me? Very well, I accept your surrender. And I accept your ranting.
Anything else? Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Snezz Boscone
Freelance P0lice
0
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Posted - 2013.02.20 22:55:00 -
[165] - Quote
OP is 100% correct if you ask me.
I'm a CEO in a newbie failcorp. While not neccesarily dispensing all of that bad advice, I have realized my ability to learn is hindered since its more difficult to interact with other players while suffocating in a corporation that honestly has nothing to offer. After reading the OP , I may still love my little failcorp, but unfortunately I started it prematurely. There is just too much to experience before limiting yourself that way. LOL I almost regret not letting the OP into my little failcorp when he asked just because I'm curious to see what kind of havok he would have wreacked. |
Joran Dravius
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
123
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Posted - 2013.02.20 22:58:00 -
[166] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Joran Dravius wrote:Whitehound wrote:Joran Dravius wrote:Whitehound wrote:What is it you want to know? Are you saying you quoted my post without reading it? No. I have dismissed it as yet another rant. Is there anything else you want to ask me? Very well, I accept your surrender. And I accept your ranting. Anything else? Yes, http://dictionary.reference.com/ is free to use and looks like it should be compatible with the in-game browser. Making use of it will prevent this problem from recurring in the future. |
Whitehound
898
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Posted - 2013.02.20 23:00:00 -
[167] - Quote
Joran Dravius wrote:Yes, http://dictionary.reference.com/ is free to use and looks like it should be compatible with the in-game browser. Making use of it will prevent this problem from recurring in the future. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Is there any specific word you want me to look up or shall I guess? Is it "ignorant", yes? Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Takseen
University of Caille Gallente Federation
261
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Posted - 2013.02.20 23:00:00 -
[168] - Quote
Joran Dravius wrote:Takseen wrote:Joran Dravius wrote:Takseen wrote:Aye, and fair play to ya. I have a bunch of BNI propaganda saved in a folder. Very impressive. I vaguely remember you from before I quit. I don't really remember who you are, but I instinctively get angry every time I see your name on the forum. I'm guessing at some point you were saying a lot of stuff I didn't like. Good news though! I've seen a lot of your posts since coming back and none of them made me want to pod you, or at least not more than I already want to pod most people. So...uh...congratulations? Keep up the good work I guess. CCP basically changed everything about the game I didn't like, so now I have very little left to complain about. Also I got to join a public fw fleet with people who actually knew what they were doing, got a few kills, and now I kinda wonder why more people don't get into pvp themselves. What changes were those? Your answer determines whether I resume hating you.
Oh how exciting. -Learning skills removal -Tiericide -NPC AI improvement(death to drones) -Hybrid/Gallente hulls buff -FW revamp -Crimewatch revamp -Combined warp to+dock/jump command -Too many other little UI fixes to remember -That change that reduced the minimum standings required to run higher level agents
Bolded ones being the most important since that's what got me to finally get an alt set up and give pvp a go.
Spose I should also mention the log-off timer change that made the Battle of Asakai possible. Edit : And TiDi, which ALSO made Asakai possible. |
Joran Dravius
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
123
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Posted - 2013.02.20 23:01:00 -
[169] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Joran Dravius wrote:Yes, http://dictionary.reference.com/ is free to use and looks like it should be compatible with the in-game browser. Making use of it will prevent this problem from recurring in the future. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Is there any specific word you want me to look up or shall I guess? Is it "ignorant", yes? Any word you feel an urge to insult people over. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
3842
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Posted - 2013.02.20 23:04:00 -
[170] - Quote
Psychotic Monk wrote: And looking past that, what happens when someone like my friends and I come knocking on your corps front door? In a wardec I find a shockingly large amount of corps won't fight me despite often outnumbering me in local 10-to-1. No, that is not an exaggeration.
They know that if someone appears so daring to go against 10 to 1, it's because he's a bait for a login trap or whatever creative things that can happen in EvE.
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
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Joran Dravius
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
123
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Posted - 2013.02.20 23:04:00 -
[171] - Quote
Takseen wrote: Oh how exciting. -Learning skills removal -Tiericide -NPC AI improvement(death to drones) -Hybrid/Gallente hulls buff -FW revamp -Combined warp to+dock/jump command -Too many other little UI fixes to remember -That change that reduced the minimum standings required to run higher level agents
Bolded ones being the most important since that's what got me to finally get an alt set up and give pvp a go.
Spose I should also mention the log-off timer change that made the Battle of Asakai possible.
Oh okay. I was worried for a sec. Seems mostly harmless though.
Takseen wrote:-Crimewatch revamp But I'm keeping an eye on you... |
Whitehound
898
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Posted - 2013.02.20 23:05:00 -
[172] - Quote
Joran Dravius wrote:Whitehound wrote:Joran Dravius wrote:Yes, http://dictionary.reference.com/ is free to use and looks like it should be compatible with the in-game browser. Making use of it will prevent this problem from recurring in the future. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Is there any specific word you want me to look up or shall I guess? Is it "ignorant", yes? Any word you feel an urge to insult people over. Let me try...
ar-+ro-+gant [ar-uh-guhnt] Show IPA adjective 1. making claims or pretensions to superior importance or rights; overbearingly assuming; insolently proud: an arrogant public official. 2. characterized by or proceeding from arrogance, or a sense of superiority, self-importance, or entitlement: arrogant claims.
It works. How nice! Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Takseen
University of Caille Gallente Federation
261
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Posted - 2013.02.20 23:10:00 -
[173] - Quote
Joran Dravius wrote:Takseen wrote:-Crimewatch revamp But I'm keeping an eye on you...
Who wouldn't want more transparent and widely available engagement mechanics?
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Joran Dravius
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
123
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Posted - 2013.02.20 23:11:00 -
[174] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Joran Dravius wrote:Whitehound wrote:Joran Dravius wrote:Yes, http://dictionary.reference.com/ is free to use and looks like it should be compatible with the in-game browser. Making use of it will prevent this problem from recurring in the future. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Is there any specific word you want me to look up or shall I guess? Is it "ignorant", yes? Any word you feel an urge to insult people over. Let me try... ar-+ro-+gant[ar-uh-guhnt] Show IPA adjective 1. making claims or pretensions to superior importance or rights; overbearingly assuming; insolently proud: an arrogant public official. 2. characterized by or proceeding from arrogance, or a sense of superiority, self-importance, or entitlement: arrogant claims. It works. How nice! You called me arrogant because I stated a fact; that newbies are ignorant. I also said that due to the state of the game at the time, I was more ignorant when I was one than newbies are today. When was I acting superior again? I must have missed that part. |
Whitehound
898
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Posted - 2013.02.20 23:22:00 -
[175] - Quote
Joran Dravius wrote:You called me arrogant because I stated a fact; that newbies are ignorant. I also said that due to the state of the game at the time, I was more ignorant when I was one than newbies are today. When was I acting superior again? I must have missed that part. No. I called you arrogant, because you stated the obvious and then went on as if it would entitle you to judge over noobs and on how they shall play their game.
Now, please, go back to the definition of the word "arrogant" and read again! Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Lord Battlestar
CALIMA COLLABORATIVE Atrox Urbanis Respublique Abundatia
26
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Posted - 2013.02.20 23:23:00 -
[176] - Quote
Considering I was a newbie director once, I mostly agree with your rant. I however do think that there are good CEOs who are willing to learn and spread good information from an early age. I once podded myself by blowing a huge fart. |
Karrl Tian
Exiled Assassins
195
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Posted - 2013.02.20 23:24:00 -
[177] - Quote
Google Voices wrote:
Posting in, I'm a griefer and I hunt noobs for sport, and it's all your fault that you are a noob post....?
He wants to stop doing it, but he just can't. Please help Mr. Monk retire with dignity by stop giving him easy targets. |
Joran Dravius
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
123
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Posted - 2013.02.20 23:42:00 -
[178] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Joran Dravius wrote:You called me arrogant because I stated a fact; that newbies are ignorant. I also said that due to the state of the game at the time, I was more ignorant when I was one than newbies are today. When was I acting superior again? I must have missed that part. No. I called you arrogant, because you stated the obvious and then went on as if it would entitle you to judge over noobs and on how they shall play their game. Now, please, go back to the definition of the word "arrogant" and read again! No, I stated the obvious in defense of the first guy you went off on for using the word ignorant in a non-insulting way, then went on to helpfully give advice while occasionally informing idiots of their status as such until you started insulting me for explaining to you what the word ignorant means, which brings us to the present argument. |
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
501
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Posted - 2013.02.20 23:49:00 -
[179] - Quote
Psychotic Monk wrote:Creating a corp is not your god given right. Oh my. Have you filed a petition reporting the sploiters creating corps as if it was some sort of right of theirs?
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
3842
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Posted - 2013.02.20 23:53:00 -
[180] - Quote
Joran Dravius wrote:But a lot of the time that isn't the case. If you're unfamiliar with Hanlon's razor you may find this article enlightening.
I know about Hanlon's razor, but it's a bit different seeing some random, unknown competency guy doing something odd in RL vs seeing a guy with in example a corp history back to 2005, 5 PvP corps (2 hi sec mercs / other) joined, all corps with all sorts of skulls emblems, barely "legal" in hi sec and a bio that makes an Al Queda terrorist feel like a child.
Let's say that people approach such a guy with... caution. Even if he appears to be alone. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
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