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Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
977
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Posted - 2013.02.21 23:54:00 -
[1] - Quote
If we look at what's been done to the Amarr ship list over the last few patches a trend quickly emerges:
Dragoon = drones, half turrets, half missiles. Arbitrator = drones, half turrets, half missiles. Prophecy = drones, half turrets, half missiles.
Now the question is: Why is this being done? Didn't Amarr ships always revolve around lasers and nothing else? Well, yes they did - and it sucked! Weak tracking, weak damage, massive capacitor drain (and on active armor tank ships, no less), and confined to only EM & Thermal damage. If you saw an Amarr ship coming you knew that you could totally ignore all Kinetic & Explosive resists and just pack in the EM & Thermal and call it done.
Aha... but not any more! Now yes you could always put cannons on your Arbitrator (a recommended tactic, btw) and you can still do the same with the same with the Dragoon and new model Prophecy (again, a recommended tactic - save your cap for armor reps), until recently your non-laser options as Amarr were very, very limited.
But now we see three dedicated drone boats, all split between turrets and missiles, and each without any gun bonuses so there is nothing stopping you from sticking artillery or blasters on them. What does the Amarr gain from this? Variety. You can load down any of these ships with Thermal drones, then stick some rail guns in set to do Kinetic damage and top it off with some Explosive missiles.
Meaning they are in no way confined to that limited EM & Thermal Only prison that all the classic Amarr laser boats have been locked into so far. And you'll notice that a number of other Amarr ships have been getting the missile launcher refits over time as well; even the Apocalypse now has the option to stick a couple of missile batteries on there if the pilot wants to.
All very refreshing changes indeed! EvE Forum Bingo |

GordonO
Evil Guinea Pigs
4
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 00:46:00 -
[2] - Quote
Question is which BS is going to join this new line up? Just hope its not the geddon.. . |

Trinkets friend
Minmatar-Amarr Man-Boy Love Association
908
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 01:22:00 -
[3] - Quote
it's going to be the Geddon. At least you'll have 5 heavy drones. Taking submissions for "Trinkets friendly Advice Column" via evemail or private convo in-game. Anonymity sorta guaranteed. http://www.localectomy.blogspot.com.au
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sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
770
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 02:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
Katran Luftschreck wrote:If we look at what's been done to the Amarr ship list over the last few patches a trend quickly emerges:
Dragoon = drones, half turrets, half missiles. Arbitrator = drones, half turrets, half missiles. Prophecy = drones, half turrets, half missiles.
Now the question is: Why is this being done? Didn't Amarr ships always revolve around lasers and nothing else? Well, yes they did - and it sucked! Weak tracking, weak damage, massive capacitor drain (and on active armor tank ships, no less), and confined to only EM & Thermal damage. If you saw an Amarr ship coming you knew that you could totally ignore all Kinetic & Explosive resists and just pack in the EM & Thermal and call it done.
Aha... but not any more! Now yes you could always put cannons on your Arbitrator (a recommended tactic, btw) and you can still do the same with the same with the Dragoon and new model Prophecy (again, a recommended tactic - save your cap for armor reps), until recently your non-laser options as Amarr were very, very limited.
But now we see three dedicated drone boats, all split between turrets and missiles, and each without any gun bonuses so there is nothing stopping you from sticking artillery or blasters on them. What does the Amarr gain from this? Variety. You can load down any of these ships with Thermal drones, then stick some rail guns in set to do Kinetic damage and top it off with some Explosive missiles.
Meaning they are in no way confined to that limited EM & Thermal Only prison that all the classic Amarr laser boats have been locked into so far. And you'll notice that a number of other Amarr ships have been getting the missile launcher refits over time as well; even the Apocalypse now has the option to stick a couple of missile batteries on there if the pilot wants to.
All very refreshing changes indeed!
Yeah, now you get the freshly nerfed missiles and drones. Glad you liked it. No scorch for you!
Now, if only they would implement scorch for the rest of us... Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |

Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
421
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 05:24:00 -
[5] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:Now, if only they would implement scorch for the rest of us... Yeah, let's give lasers only real selling point to everything else, brilliant idea.
Trinkets friend wrote:it's going to be the Geddon. At least you'll have 5 heavy drones. This is probably true, although there is a possibility of another outcome. CCP told that they are fine with Amarr BS performance mostly, with Geddon in particular. That may mean we aren't getting significant changes there.
That concerns me tbh because in so many cases when CCP buffed ships across the class except the ship they considered fine it ended up with every one of those ships becoming useful, except that very "fine" ship. Let's hope Amarr BSs won't sink completely. |

Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
578
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 08:05:00 -
[6] - Quote
I don't want my majestic space ***** to turn into a droneboat =< Beyond Divinity Recruitment is open! |

Uppsy Daisy
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
140
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 08:10:00 -
[7] - Quote
According to CCP Fozzie's last statements, the Amarr Battleship lineup will get minimal balancing changes as they are all in pretty good shape.
http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=73530
Armageddon: this ship is performing well at the time being, and thus we have little reason to alter it. Apocalypse: is behaving well at the moment, so there is little point in changing it. Abbadon: a nice ship with fine purpose in fleets and large gangs. |
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CCP Ytterbium
C C P C C P Alliance
1757

|
Posted - 2013.02.22 09:52:00 -
[8] - Quote
Uppsy Daisy wrote:According to CCP Fozzie's last statements, the Amarr Battleship lineup will get minimal balancing changes as they are all in pretty good shape. http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=73530Armageddon: this ship is performing well at the time being, and thus we have little reason to alter it. Apocalypse: is behaving well at the moment, so there is little point in changing it. Abbadon: a nice ship with fine purpose in fleets and large gangs.
Hello there, that blog ain't from Fozzie though 
But yes, Amarr Battleships are fine at the moment, so there is no reason to change one of them to fit this drone line-up. If / when we introduce the line on the Battleship level, it'll likely be on a new hull. The Battleship that'll change the most with the Tiericide will be the Typhoon, as it will most likely move over to the Breacher / Bellicose / Cyclone philosophy by focusing its weapon system on missiles. Of course, large missiles need to be looked at for this to work (the Raven needs it as well). |
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Diesel47
Bad Men Ltd.
494
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 10:07:00 -
[9] - Quote
Hmmm. I wonder why all the races are using each others weapon systems more and more with each patch?
I'm all for giving amarr more variety.. but something about gallente not being the "drone race" and caldari not being the "missile race" anymore kinda bothers me.
Makes ya wonder what the game is going to look like in a year or two. |

Uppsy Daisy
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
140
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 10:08:00 -
[10] - Quote
Oops, sorry.
Keep up the most excellent work you guys are doing, you are really revitalising the game.
. . I made a dev cross  |
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Andracin
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
62
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 10:27:00 -
[11] - Quote
Diesel47 wrote:Hmmm. I wonder why all the races are using each others weapon systems more and more with each patch?
I'm all for giving amarr more variety.. but something about gallente not being the "drone race" and caldari not being the "missile race" anymore kinda bothers me.
Makes ya wonder what the game is going to look like in a year or two.
Its going to look like a bunch of the same ships on diffrent hulls with the only racial trait being their tank type. That balances the game right? |

Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
609
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 10:30:00 -
[12] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Uppsy Daisy wrote:According to CCP Fozzie's last statements, the Amarr Battleship lineup will get minimal balancing changes as they are all in pretty good shape. http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=73530Armageddon: this ship is performing well at the time being, and thus we have little reason to alter it. Apocalypse: is behaving well at the moment, so there is little point in changing it. Abbadon: a nice ship with fine purpose in fleets and large gangs. Hello there, that blog ain't from Fozzie though  But yes, Amarr Battleships are fine at the moment, so there is no reason to change one of them to fit this drone line-up. If / when we introduce the line on the Battleship level, it'll likely be on a new hull. The Battleship that'll change the most with the Tiericide will be the Typhoon, as it will most likely move over to the Breacher / Bellicose / Cyclone philosophy by focusing its weapon system on missiles. Of course, large missiles need to be looked at for this to work (the Raven needs it as well).
Yay Battleships on the work !!! My favorites !!!
*removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |

Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
534
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 10:45:00 -
[13] - Quote
Diesel47 wrote:Hmmm. I wonder why all the races are using each others weapon systems more and more with each patch?
I'm all for giving amarr more variety.. but something about gallente not being the "drone race" and caldari not being the "missile race" anymore kinda bothers me.
The current theme seems to involve making it somewhat harder to cross-train races, so a little more flexibility within each race is probably a sensible idea, and certainly if it involves making obsolete ships usable.
In any case, Gallente were the drone race no more than Caldari was the missile race. You're imagining pigeonholes that didn't really exist, or exaggerating them at least. |

Calapine
Xeno Tech Corp
219
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 11:18:00 -
[14] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
But yes, Amarr Battleships are fine at the moment, so there is no reason to change one of them to fit this drone line-up. If / when we introduce the line on the Battleship level, it'll likely be on a new hull. The Battleship that'll change the most with the Tiericide will be the Typhoon, as it will most likely move over to the Breacher / Bellicose / Cyclone philosophy by focusing its weapon system on missiles. Of course, large missiles need to be looked at for this to work (the Raven needs it as well).
Hey Ytterbium, does that mean there will be no attempt to preserve the iconic Minmatar split weapon ships?
Whether by merging the missile/projectile bonuses into a single one (so as not 'waste' one compared to other hulls), or by....well....you are the Dev.  Pain is short, and joy is eternal. |

Caitlyn Tufy
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
185
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 11:30:00 -
[15] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:But yes, Amarr Battleships are fine at the moment, so there is no reason to change one of them to fit this drone line-up. If / when we introduce the line on the Battleship level, it'll likely be on a new hull. The Battleship that'll change the most with the Tiericide will be the Typhoon, as it will most likely move over to the Breacher / Bellicose / Cyclone philosophy by focusing its weapon system on missiles. Of course, large missiles need to be looked at for this to work (the Raven needs it as well).
Hey, Ytterbium. I had assumed Armaggedon might get the drone boat treatment - while I'm impressed with Amarr drone boats, I'm happy you're not considering it at this time, as I feel the hybrid nature of the ship already seems to work well. That said, a few questions, if you're willing to answer:
1. Right now, Amarr ships are focused on lasers and drones in T1, while they mainly use lasers and missiles in T2. Are there any plans to introduce more drone ships in T2? In that regard, are you happy with how Khanid missile boats perform?
2. Have you ever considered Khanid Abaddon, i.e. heavily armor tanked missile battleship? :)
and last but not least:
3. What happened to the Golden Banana aka the Space Machinegun aka the Apocalypse remodelling? Is it still planned? May we get a preview? /puppyeyes |

Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour
264
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 11:41:00 -
[16] - Quote
Amarr have always had an excellent drone ship in the arbitrator hull lineup. Often beating the vexor. This is nothing new and just expanding the concept. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
I'm NOT a Pirate! I'm a privateer! |

Mr Noo
Hedion University Amarr Empire
16
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 12:15:00 -
[17] - Quote
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
Now the question is: Why is this being done? Didn't Amarr ships always revolve around lasers and nothing else? Well, yes they did - and it sucked! Weak tracking, weak damage, massive capacitor drain (and on active armor tank ships, no less), and confined to only EM & Thermal damage.
It looks like CCP don't wont to recognized laser weapons problems, and just give amarr new drone boat.
If I liked drones I would choose Gallente ships.
I would prefer new T1 ship with optimal range bonus than drone boat.
All very refreshing changes indeed![/quote] |

feihcsiM
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
164
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 12:28:00 -
[18] - Quote
Calapine wrote:CCP Ytterbium wrote:
But yes, Amarr Battleships are fine at the moment, so there is no reason to change one of them to fit this drone line-up. If / when we introduce the line on the Battleship level, it'll likely be on a new hull. The Battleship that'll change the most with the Tiericide will be the Typhoon, as it will most likely move over to the Breacher / Bellicose / Cyclone philosophy by focusing its weapon system on missiles. Of course, large missiles need to be looked at for this to work (the Raven needs it as well).
Hey Ytterbium, does that mean there will be no attempt to preserve the iconic Minmatar split weapon ships? Whether by merging the missile/projectile bonuses into a single one (so as not 'waste' one compared to other hulls), or by....well....you are the Dev. 
It looks like minnie split weapons now means a turret line of ships and a missile line of ships instead of single ships with split weapons. Personally I like that.
It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine. |

SMT008
SnaiLs aNd FroGs
519
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 12:32:00 -
[19] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
But yes, Amarr Battleships are fine at the moment, so there is no reason to change one of them to fit this drone line-up. If / when we introduce the line on the Battleship level, it'll likely be on a new hull. The Battleship that'll change the most with the Tiericide will be the Typhoon, as it will most likely move over to the Breacher / Bellicose / Cyclone philosophy by focusing its weapon system on missiles. Of course, large missiles need to be looked at for this to work (the Raven needs it as well).
Does that mean Battleships won't get much changes except for the Typhoon ?
Some battleships are in dire need of changes, like the Armageddon's CPU buff, the Raven's much needed PWG, Capacitor and tank buff, or the Apocalypse need for some revamp as it's currently not used much (No one flies the Apocalypse, while everyone flies the Navy Apocalypse).
|

Prez21
V0LTA Verge of Collapse
23
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 12:33:00 -
[20] - Quote
Andracin wrote:Diesel47 wrote:Hmmm. I wonder why all the races are using each others weapon systems more and more with each patch?
I'm all for giving amarr more variety.. but something about gallente not being the "drone race" and caldari not being the "missile race" anymore kinda bothers me.
Makes ya wonder what the game is going to look like in a year or two. Its going to look like a bunch of the same ships on diffrent hulls with the only racial trait being their tank type. That balances the game right?
It does seem to be slightly tipping this way, so many people whining about there races ships and how they cant compete that CCP seems to be slowly turning a lot of ships to be exactly the same just with different hulls. |
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Calapine
Xeno Tech Corp
219
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 13:21:00 -
[21] - Quote
Prez21 wrote:It does seem to be slightly tipping this way, so many people whining about there races ships and how they cant compete that CCP seems to be slowly turning a lot of ships to be exactly the same just with different hulls.
Great, now you got me worried. You do have a point though, it seems there slow trend of homogenization between races going on. Pain is short, and joy is eternal. |

Hulasikaly Wada
G.P.S. Global Private Security Agency
11
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 13:41:00 -
[22] - Quote
Keep the Navy Armageddon as it is and nothing versus the t1 hull turning into a E-war version with Traking Disruption bonus, more mid slots and saving its 125m3 of drones ( base turrets dmg/neuts plus 125 m3 of drones ) something different from actual Dominix . I think nothing wrong to swich hybrid bonus on Tech1 Dominx into Sensor dampening one and Typhoon RoF proiectiles into Target painter one ( work already on the new missile Typhoon version ) making like Caldari every race having its ( old tier 1 ) E-war BS and its DPS faction version
Hula |

Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
19
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 16:50:00 -
[23] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Uppsy Daisy wrote:According to CCP Fozzie's last statements, the Amarr Battleship lineup will get minimal balancing changes as they are all in pretty good shape. http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=73530
Armageddon: this ship is performing well at the time being, and thus we have little reason to alter it. Apocalypse: is behaving well at the moment, so there is little point in changing it. Abbadon: a nice ship with fine purpose in fleets and large gangs. Hello there, that blog ain't from Fozzie though  But yes, Amarr Battleships are fine at the moment, so there is no reason to change one of them to fit this drone line-up. If / when we introduce the line on the Battleship level, it'll likely be on a new hull. The Battleship that'll change the most with the Tiericide will be the Typhoon, as it will most likely move over to the Breacher / Bellicose / Cyclone philosophy by focusing its weapon system on missiles. Of course, large missiles need to be looked at for this to work (the Raven needs it as well).
Yes nerf the range of HAMS whilst you're at it they have the same range as torps... so the second bonus will be Target painter bonus then? |

Zarnak Wulf
In Exile.
1050
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 17:01:00 -
[24] - Quote
The Typhoon has the smallest signature for a BS at 320m and moves very quickly. Should it be otherwise when I find it I will be very put out.... |

Fredfredbug4
The Scope Gallente Federation
439
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 19:32:00 -
[25] - Quote
I'm fine with the Amarr drone line up, I'm actually happy with how it's going, drones are the secondary weapon system of the Amarr after all, same with the Minmatar missile line up. My only problem is how the Gallente fit into this.
I always thought that Drones were suppose to be the primary weapon system of the Gallente, however it seems more like Blasters have taken that role and Drones are now a secondary system for two races.
Drones need a buff, particularly with their AI. I accidentally my assets, is this bad?-á |

Bouh Revetoile
TIPIAKS
246
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 19:37:00 -
[26] - Quote
Fredfredbug4 wrote:Drones need a buff, particularly with their AI. Tweaking drones AI is more a fix than a buff IMO. |

Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
478
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 20:43:00 -
[27] - Quote
Diesel47 wrote:Hmmm. I wonder why all the races are using each others weapon systems more and more with each patch?
I'm all for giving amarr more variety.. but something about gallente not being the "drone race" and caldari not being the "missile race" anymore kinda bothers me.
Makes ya wonder what the game is going to look like in a year or two. Like in any war, different empires see what weapons their enemies are using and adapt similar systems to counter it.
For many years the proud Amarr race has boldly wielded their laser based weapon systems. they have had some use for drones, but believed missiles to be primitive and lacked the precision of the superior Amarr weapons.
However, after years of conflict they have come to see the value of the missile systems used by the caldari, and the strength of the drones used by the galente.
They have seen how their former slaves have embraced these weapon systems, and how it has made them stronger. If these slaves flying ships pieced together from scraps were able to gain power by embracing these different weapon systems, how much more benefit could the noble Amarr with their superior intellect benefit by incorporating these systems into their own ships.
Do we really want EVE to grow stale and never changing,. Or do we want it to be a living universe that grows and changes with time just like a real world would.
If anything I would like to see more change, on a larger scale. These empires have been at war for years, yet their borders have never really changed. Sure there are low sec systems that flop back and fourth between factions. But to have live events that actually cause permanent changes to the game world would really make new eden come alive.
Imagine a live event, a massive battle between waring factions. that ends with the boarders between empires being changed. With systems security status changing based on the outcome of the event. Security status of systems can shift. former 0.5 high sec systems dropping to 0.4 or 0.3. Former low sec systems being secured as the empire expands raising their security status.
Null sec NPC empires growing stronger an eventually becoming new factions with their own high security space "Islands"
Null sec being expanded through a new exploration mechanic that allows players to discover new solar systems currently uncharted.
Eventually make null sec stargates destructible, and buildable, like they did with customs offices. Existing gates stay until destroyed, but new gates can be built and linked to other gates within a determined range. After all stargates are much more common than Titans to the empires, so if Null sec alliances can build Titans, they should be able to build stargates.
Have Null sec systems that have been heavily upgraded rise in security status. Players will have to choose whether they want a system to be secure, with more control,complete with gate guns owned by the alliance, or let it go wild, and be a better place for ratting, but have less control over who comes and goes. If an alliance has the power and resources to match an empire in the construction of a Titan, why can they not also secure there own space. But this would have the disadvantage of securing it against pirates/rats as well. An industrial system can be made more secure, providing more protection for those living there, while a ratting system can be more lawless, making it easier for enemies and pirates/rats alike to enter.
The possibilities are endless if the developers decided to make EVE a living world, where players can influence lasting, major changes. Let new eden grow, and give us the tools to carve out our own reality of what New Eden can be. |

Solomar Espersei
Quality Assurance The Marmite Collective
352
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 21:06:00 -
[28] - Quote
I'm all for expanding the Khanid theme with Amarr ships, but darn it, we need to get them skinned properly. Something close to the Curse would be best I think. Quality Assurance
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Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
524
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 22:04:00 -
[29] - Quote
Bugsy VanHalen wrote: Like in any war, different empires see what weapons their enemies are using and adapt similar systems to counter it... Yeah, history clearly shows that the old world all took to fighting from horse back riding after they were clobbered by the Mongol horde, Rome equipped all their legions with pansy spears to mimic the Greek phalanx's even though they had trounced them thoroughly using their tried'n'true sword based meat grinder and the French hastily abandoned their unrivalled heavy cavalry to adopt the longbows that had shown them what for!.
Generalisations have and will never be either good or have merit .. just so you know. CCP's main flaw at the moment is that they seem to have to forgotten the roots .. all those napkins containing the basic descriptions of the Empires, some of which has seeped into hull/module descriptions. If any one race has all variations available to it, why should anyone cross train anything ever again? It goes beyond the weapon choices for hull revamps mind you, weapon performance has been brought dangerously close as well over the years (blasters almost equal to lasers range wise for instance) so the problem is rather pervasive. There ought to be downsides to taking a excessive dps but short ranged vessel up against a fast and/or longer range ditto!
And guess what: Their drive to keep us sheep happy by introducing new hulls/mods periodically will exasperate the problem because they won't have anything other than "the other sides" stuff to use when designing it ..
I went Amarr, because it was the closest to a pure gun race .. lasers Dammit! And now I am being peddled silly missiles and cowardly drones. CCP need to dig deep into their heritage and come with the same level of inspiration that made Eric the Red return to Iceland from his voyage and sell people the idea of living in even harsher environs by calling the new place "Greenland" 
|

Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
620
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 22:26:00 -
[30] - Quote
Calapine wrote:Prez21 wrote:It does seem to be slightly tipping this way, so many people whining about there races ships and how they cant compete that CCP seems to be slowly turning a lot of ships to be exactly the same just with different hulls. Great, now you got me worried.  You do have a point though, it seems there slow trend of homogenization between races going on. That would suggest flying a cyclone and a drake would be the same. Weapons alone don't equal homogenous design. The racial attributes in the hulls also have a large role to play as well. |
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