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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2005.08.02 09:40:00 -
[1]
I lost my zealot to npc's today
Looking around at all the manufacturers, the shortest waiting list atm is about 7 days and the longest a whopping 67 days. ( I didnt speak to them all but websites I went to advertised waiting lists)
I also went through a bunch of regions checking the market and bought the only one I could find (my wallet is still screaming)
I'm astounded. It seems that after you train for a long time to get access to the content you are scuppered by lack of bpos and a +-32 hour build time on the ones that exist.
I'm sure the situation is the same for the deimos (if not worse).
More players are graduating to hac's and supply is at a trickle.
These things arent meant to be "uber rare", its a game and I want my toys to play with
Please release an adequate supply of bpo's.
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Rodj Blake
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Posted - 2005.08.02 09:45:00 -
[2]
Actually, I think that the plan was that they should be rare.
Dolce et decorum est pro imperator mori |
Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2005.08.02 09:58:00 -
[3]
Ok, look past my poor wording and look at the intent.
Rare is one thing. I'd have more sucess looking for hens teeth.
The playerbase is growing and maturing. More people have access to these ships. Is the manufacturing base growing or stagnant?
People cant exactly see a gap in the market and fill it on a whim. We have an artificial barrier to entry...
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Drilla
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Posted - 2005.08.02 10:01:00 -
[4]
I agree in part.
CCP should script this so there's a ratio of BPOs:Players with the skills for the module/ship.
That will keep the bpo from devalueing and ensure that availability of the modules/ships.
EVE System Security - Killboard (still early alpha) |
theRaptor
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Posted - 2005.08.02 10:14:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Deja Thoris
Ok, look past my poor wording and look at the intent.
Rare is one thing. I'd have more sucess looking for hens teeth.
The playerbase is growing and maturing. More people have access to these ships. Is the manufacturing base growing or stagnant?
People cant exactly see a gap in the market and fill it on a whim. We have an artificial barrier to entry...
Wow, so maybe T2 industry isnt a race to below mineral cost with morons. 
I don't like the T2 scarcity, but it is far more realistic then everyone being able to make everything and competition being solely on price, and even then it seems like most people sell below mineral prices.
T1 production in EVE is a broken career path, it takes about two weeks to become an expert builder. CCP should stop adding specialisation to combat and add it to production (T2 is already like this).
However they should also get the research agents to give out T2 BPC's. Personally I think research should be much more active and T2 BPO's should be done away with entirely.
That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die.
-- Ancient "Dirt" Religious figure. |
ParMizaN
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Posted - 2005.08.02 10:27:00 -
[6]
Before they do that they should really look at how they distribute the bpos.
Distibuting lots of bpcs ftw tbh
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Run and fall or stand in line, in the end what's your's is mine |
Cylynex
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Posted - 2005.08.02 17:05:00 -
[7]
T2 bpo distribution is broken as is the number of bpos available RELATIVE TO the amount of components being produced and the demand. Without getting too far into it, there are not enough bpos to support the demand for the ships, whereas there is a huge oversupply of POS-products / T2 components which are not being used up, resulting in a very stagnant component market.
Why should so few people control the t2 ship market? Should they be very rare especially compared to T1 ships? Absolutely. Should some of the arguably best items in the game be handed out via random lottery? Uh.....no? Should these "winners" then be able to market the items for huge profit with no competition? Well, if the market can sustain it, sure profit is great. But very little competition in a market where your product was handed to you for no work at all.....hmm....
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Roshan longshot
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Posted - 2005.08.02 17:19:00 -
[8]
When you have an alliance as Big as BIG with 350+ members you can easy get a tech II BPO from one of your members. When you have a PvP alliance, your not going to get one, same goes for the pirates.
What you need to do, and no I have not tried this out. Is get eight agents working for you. Spend each day running around doing their little crap jobs. And do this for several weeks. You might get one then. But then who in their right mind is going to do that?
Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter [i]pirate[/i] or mixture of them all.
[i]As read from the original box. |
jbob2000
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Posted - 2005.08.02 17:42:00 -
[9]
For previous T2 BPO threads, I have been against releasing more BPOs, as this would supposedly turn the T2 market into what the T1 market is.
However, after taking a look at the demand for some T2 ships...The wait for a Deimos from NAGA is extremely long, and for all the other BPOs out there, I'm just as sure that the wait is just as long.
A few more BPOs would help this, and it wouldn't kill the market, in my opinion. There would still be waiting lists, they just wouldn't be as long because the demand for the ships is being fulfilled faster. Even having some 10 run BPCs dropped from research agents would be nice.
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CANADIAN |
Raymears Extremesurvival
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Posted - 2005.08.02 17:54:00 -
[10]
why wait,you can buy a sacralege today!
on the market in lonetrek!
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Moridan
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Posted - 2005.08.02 18:26:00 -
[11]
Some bpo owners don't sell the ships on the open market, especially pvp oriented folks. A high demand ship will be able to be sold to alliance/corp members easily. Better to have well equiped friends, than have money and better equipped enemies.
"Speak quietly and carry a big torpedo."
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Summersnow
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Posted - 2005.08.02 18:36:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Summersnow on 02/08/2005 18:38:40
Originally by: Raymears Extremesurvival
why wait,you can buy a sacralege today!
on the market in lonetrek!
I luv my omen, almost as much as my Wolf. I loathe mallers, they look like crap, so when I make the jump to HAC I want a Zealot. Flying a Zealot is the ONLY reason I'd waste 28 days training Amarr Cruiser V.
last I checked the cost of either ship was roughly SEVENTY MILLION.
Now, if I'm gonna pay SEVENTY MILLION for a friggin ship don't you think I should be able to get THE ONE I WANT?
Tell ya what, you got a suckriledge for sale? Its worth 20 mil to me, tops, cause its not the ship I want. Think someone will sell me one for that?
This is a PAY TO PLAY game, it revolves ENTIERLY around flying spaceships. If you got the isk and you spend AN ENTIRE MONTH training cruiser V to fly a Zealot then there should be a Zealot available for you to fly at any time.
If you gotta wait for one then somethings wrong and CCP needs to take a look at putting out more BP's.
Now, maybe Deja just caught it on a bad day, maybe its a sign of a serious flaw, I don't know, thats something CCP needs to investigate, BUT if there is a shortage of ships to fly it IS something CCP needs to look into.
BTW - My condolances on your loss, especially considering how much insurance payouts suck on t2 ships :-p
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Quanteeri
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Posted - 2005.08.02 18:47:00 -
[13]
I've often wondered how many T2 BPO's are owned by inactive player accounts.
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fairimear
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Posted - 2005.08.02 18:55:00 -
[14]
signed. mainly hac bpo's and maybe 1 more of each ceptor bpo.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world Domination.
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Exaali Vendraxxil
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Posted - 2005.08.02 18:57:00 -
[15]
I know there have been hundreds if not thousands of forum threads about how the
BPO lottery is broken, but has CCP ever weighed in on any of them to acknowledge that
they actually consider it a problem that needs fixing and that they're actually work-
ing on fixing it? Or have they all been met with (deafening) silence? 
--
time is the fire in which we burn. |
Xthril Ranger
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Posted - 2005.08.02 19:14:00 -
[16]
If a ship is hard to get I suggest looking for alternatives. In my opinion there should not be more BPOs handed out. Some of them got more demand than others , but if there isnt enough of the popular ones the customer might buy the less popular instead.
If CCP handed out more of the popular BPs we will see everyone in the same HAC and almost none in the less popular ships.
btw , there will be coming new types of tech 2 ships. That might make your HAC more availiable. Look at the assault frigs and interceptors. Those have been out there long enough that people looking for the next bigger better thing have moved on.
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Forlani
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Posted - 2005.08.02 19:17:00 -
[17]
Im mainly a production person. I like makeing stuff and was really looking forward to running missions for my research agent to get a tech 2 bpo. Then i found out how it worked and i stoped cold. Whats the point when i could spend months to a year doing just that for no benifit. Ive actually changed courses now. Im working my way into fly interceptors, and HAC's so i can just go agent *****ing for a secuity agent in the hopes they offer me a rare ship.
To be honest i only log into the game now to change skills. Becuase there is no point playing untill i can hold my own, and there isnt any point to producing anything tech 1 other than personal consumption.
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Isochecker
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Posted - 2005.08.02 19:53:00 -
[18]
Research agents offering BPC's is the solution imo. Remove all the current in game t2 lotto bpo's and substitute the current ones for limited run coppies. Have RP be the influencing factor on how frequently BPC's are offered to a player which will actually reward those whom have invested the time and money to obtain research agents and not just the lucky 1 in 1000 that stumbles upon a T2 bpo offer.
Want to build HAC's for a living? Run that ship r&d agent and get his weekly/whichever bpc handout.
Ex.
"Hey %name, I've really appreciated the help you've given me in my research over these many days/weeks. Perhalps you'd be interested in aquiring a copy of my research progress thus far?"
Zealot BPC Limited run (3) issue - xxxx RP
etc.
I'd LOVE a system like the above that rewards RD agent runners like the normal agent runners are. This lottery system is frankly a quick implementation and uses nothing more then randomization to determine market saturation limit. |
Kerby Lane
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Posted - 2005.08.02 20:06:00 -
[19]
Signed!
Basically T2 frigates are fine ( except may be Enyo) but HACs definetely need more supply ( except Mumin  ).
Its not about "stupid lottery" or "rich bustards get all" or "make T2 BPOs sold by NPCs" it is just about extremely limited supply of HACs at the moment.
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Tarm
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Posted - 2005.08.02 20:14:00 -
[20]
75m and you can fly one today. Just shoot me an eve-mail. 
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2005.08.02 21:26:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Tarm
75m and you can fly one today. Just shoot me an eve-mail.
Thank you Tarm, you were about the only one I couldn't get hold of but the website that had a link to you advertised a waiting list.
To the person that said "fly something else". I have a sacriledge. It is a niche ship. You use it when you want somebody to die of old age. HAC's are awesome ships. They have a long skill tree and my skills are geared towards Amarr. I am not going to spend another month to train up a different races HAC's.
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2005.08.02 21:47:00 -
[22]
Buy my ships and pipe down.
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teqNo
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Posted - 2005.08.03 00:52:00 -
[23]
Bad luck with the loss. I totally agree, I don't want to have to wait a month or more just to get a 'reasonably' priced Deimos when I eventually get there.
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Sorja
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Posted - 2005.08.03 01:21:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Rodj Blake
Actually, I think that the plan was that they should be rare.
Really? I didn't think EVE was a collectable card game
If you want rare stuff, buy those faction ships like the Hookbill. Crap, but rare, a collector's wet dream.
Screw that awfull lottery system already and give out BPCs from research agents. Is it that hard to monitor how many ships are built/sold and release BPCs accordingly ?
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Alain Josviar
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Posted - 2005.08.03 01:25:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Sorja
Originally by: Rodj Blake
Actually, I think that the plan was that they should be rare.
Really? I didn't think EVE was a collectable card game
If you want rare stuff, buy those faction ships like the Hookbill. Crap, but rare, a collector's wet dream.
Screw that awfull lottery system already and give out BPCs from research agents. Is it that hard to monitor how many ships are built/sold and release BPCs accordingly ?
No, but CCP considers spending their dev time on creating halfassed useless crap like archeology and hacking more important than fixing the halfassed crap that's already in the game.
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Aitrus
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Posted - 2005.08.03 01:32:00 -
[26]
Originally by: jbob2000
For previous T2 BPO threads, I have been against releasing more BPOs, as this would supposedly turn the T2 market into what the T1 market is.
Depends on how many. If you drop another 20+ BPO's then yes. However, reseeding 5 BPO's for items no longer being released would ease waiting times a bit, but not flood the market completely.
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Wild Rho
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Posted - 2005.08.03 02:10:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Wild Rho on 03/08/2005 02:10:47
Allowing research agents to release tech 2 bpcs more often would help boost supply without crippling tech 2 bpo owners since they ultimatly can produce indefinetly.
Edit: plus its alot easier for the devs to regulate if there is too much supply.
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Beeszz
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Posted - 2005.08.03 06:25:00 -
[28]
First of all it is a shame you lost your zealot
But does this mean that it should be easy to replace it? I think HACs are something special. I am on a waiting list for 60 days to get a Deimos. And it is something to look forward to. Not like losing my bs and buying a new one on the market right away. Being more tough to get, it adds something to the game. You need to take good care of it, and need to consider where to use it. I know a lot of PvP-ers use HACs and that they get good kills with it. But if they lose one..I can imagine that gives an extra thrill.
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PiniclePanda
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Posted - 2005.08.03 07:16:00 -
[29]
You're only complaining because people are nice enough not to jack up the price to the point where they DONT have a waiting list.
WTS: Zealot, 5B or trade for dread....
;-)
(kidding, but I do believe my point is made)
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Sletvana
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Posted - 2005.08.03 07:26:00 -
[30]
Reading these posts you can only laugh at what T2 has become.
Rarity of game items in an MMO, especially a unique MMO like Eve where the entire population plays on a non-sharded server, agreed and almost essential. But we aren't talking about items from an event or named uber loot that is the basis of EVERY MMO here.
If T2 is supposed to be "rare" then why are the skills to build and/or use these items widely and readily available? If T2 is supposed to be "rare" then why are the items needed to build T2 compenents widely and readily available?
The argument that don't add more BPO's because you'll break the monopolies is equally absurd. If some dumb-dumb wants to sell his/her items at a loss, let him/her. They won't be around for very long pretty obviously.
If anyone can build any tech 1 item in a matter of weeks then how come there are still so few ship producers? Maybe it's because the production, mineral aquisition and sales part of the game isn't exactly appealing to everyone per chance?
Adding BPC's is an idea, the only thing is, it cuts a gigantic chunk out of the player economy and even further weakens the research aspect of the game .
Add more T2 BPO's and you'll see the same folks doing the same thing but prices will settle down a little...some things might drop dramatically but that ends up correcting itself as well in the end.
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