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Khaldorn Murino
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Posted - 2005.08.03 14:20:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Xavian Vaar
I believe, then, we are at an impass on the relevance of your comparison. To argue it further would quickly become circular and dull.
The Hyprocisy of Lunatics! As today seems to be the day of the quote, that, I will remember.
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"I once heard tale about a CURE"
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Khaldorn Murino
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Posted - 2005.08.03 14:21:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Rodj Blake
But if the the tattoos do not signify abilites, roles or hierarchy what is that they're there for?
You really cant figure it out, even after everything said? How did your race ever get out of the dark ages.
Oh wait, it didnt.
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"I once heard tale about a CURE"
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2005.08.03 14:22:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Khaldorn Murino
You really cant figure it out, even after everything said? How did your race ever get out of the dark ages.
Oh wait, it didnt.
We took it to other planets though, that must count for something.
[Come to Daddy]
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Rodj Blake
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Posted - 2005.08.03 14:27:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Khaldorn Murino
Originally by: Rodj Blake
But if the the tattoos do not signify abilites, roles or hierarchy what is that they're there for?
You really cant figure it out, even after everything said? How did your race ever get out of the dark ages.
Oh wait, it didnt.
I notice that you've been spouting a lot of insults on this thread, but you still haven't actually told us what this all means to you personally.
I guess that Sarkos feels that he's qualified to actually answer questions and you don't...
Dolce et decorum est pro imperator mori |
Khaldorn Murino
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Posted - 2005.08.03 14:31:00 -
[35]
Nit picking, is that what you have been reduced too?
No, I explained before why I did not answer. I will not repeat myself.
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"I once heard tale about a CURE"
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Regardie
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Posted - 2005.08.03 14:39:00 -
[36]
I have requested this before politely, but I will do so again. Please Mr Murino can you share with us what your tattoo signifies to you?
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Rodj Blake
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Posted - 2005.08.03 14:44:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Khaldorn Murino
Nit picking, is that what you have been reduced too?
No, I explained before why I did not answer. I will not repeat myself.
Actually, you stated that you were unwilling to answer, but you did not explain why you were unwilling.
Plus Regardie did ask you nicely.
If you were proud of your system or your tattoo, you would not hesitate to exlain yourself.
Dolce et decorum est pro imperator mori |
Khaldorn Murino
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Posted - 2005.08.03 14:55:00 -
[38]
You want me to explain what it means to me to a bunch of slavers who think my culture is a joke? Why?
If you would like to tell the readers of this here summit that you recognise my culture as a vibrant and significant and deeply spiritual system that you respect, then I will explain.
I will not explain for a joke.
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"I once heard tale about a CURE"
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Rodj Blake
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Posted - 2005.08.03 15:01:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Rodj Blake on 03/08/2005 15:03:56
Edited by: Rodj Blake on 03/08/2005 15:02:41
Originally by: Khaldorn Murino
You want me to explain what it means to me to a bunch of slavers who think my culture is a joke? Why?
If you would like to tell the readers of this here summit that you recognise my culture as a vibrant and significant and deeply spiritual system that you respect, then I will explain.
I will not explain for a joke.
Well, no doubt you consider the Amarrian religion and system of government a joke. You've said as much many times yourself.
And yet, fear of ridicule does not stop me spreading God's word wherever I find pagans.
I know with my whole being that our way is the right way, and I will not hesitate to tell you as much. No matter how much you laugh, you will not dent my pride in my way of thinking.
That you shy away from explaining your way of life because you think that you might be criticised speaks volumes.
And anyway, how can I ever recognise your culture as being vibrant and deeply spiritual if you won't even explain it? How can I respect your way of life if I don't even understand it?
Dolce et decorum est pro imperator mori |
Xavian Vaar
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Posted - 2005.08.03 15:01:00 -
[40]
I believe he thinks we wish to make a mockery of him ridicule his culture, and afford it's rites unintended and unwarranted significance.
I wonder, why should we try to claim credit for something he has done so well on his own?
I think what remains of this civilised discussion can now be considered to be over.
Si vis pacem, para bellum. Sola fide stamus contra malum. |
Khaldorn Murino
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Posted - 2005.08.03 15:11:00 -
[41]
The paradoies here are numerous. Why the sudden interest in our culture, Amarrians never showed an interest in it when they murdered and enslaved us? They tried to get rid of it.
The difference is, you want to conquer everyone and force them into servititude for your religion. We do not wish to do any such thing. Our culture is our own, I have no urge to spread it, I have less urge to explain it to the very people who wish to see it stamped out.
I do not think your religon is a joke, it and you are responsible for too many deaths. I think it is a fantasy concocted to ease your guilt at enslavement and to keep you all under control.
Now, simply say you respect the Minmatar people and their right to freedom and their own spiritual beliefs and I will explain.
But you cannot, as X's comments show only too well.
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"I once heard tale about a CURE"
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Regardie
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Posted - 2005.08.03 15:11:00 -
[42]
My research has shown that the Minmatar people maintain an active belief system that they consider to be deeply spiritual. A positive observation that I have found is that this spiritual system teaches some measure of morality and social responsibility. This is something that is commendable in my personal viewpoint.
But these beliefs and customs often appear so disparate and contradictory to an outside observer, that my research often makes little progress when exploring the more complex ceremonies. Hence this is such a wonderful opportunity to learn more about the Minmatar people.
So Mr Murino, I will ask you for the last timeā please can you share with us what your tattoo signifies to you? The one that you received as part of the Voluval - that is an integral part of Matari traditions which are part of a complex and (frustratingly) enduring spiritual system.
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Makkar
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Posted - 2005.08.03 15:15:00 -
[43]
Well, I'm not ashamed of what we have left of a culture. I'll speak of it, and be proud...
I gained the mark of the Bull's Horns at my Voluval, which was performed by Sarkos after my rescue from slavery. According to minmatar tradition, the mark if the Bull's Horns is a sign of great strength, either physically, or mentally, or of purpose. Whether you consider this to be a quaint superstition, or utter hogwash is intirely irrelevant. The marks have meaning to me. It is our culture much, as Discorporation mentioned, like the Amarr adorn themselves with decorative cranial plating.
As for how the Voluval works on a physical level? I doubt even the Voshouds know. It does work though, and most if not all end up embodying or personifying their mark.
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Regardie
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Posted - 2005.08.03 15:20:00 -
[44]
Thank you Makkar for sharing this information.
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Rodj Blake
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Posted - 2005.08.03 15:29:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Makkar
Whether you consider this to be a quaint superstition, or utter hogwash is intirely irrelevant. The marks have meaning to me.
This is a very interesting point, and it's refreshing to see a Minmatar give such an open and honest summary of their views.
Dolce et decorum est pro imperator mori |
Rodj Blake
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Posted - 2005.08.03 15:32:00 -
[46]
I have another question about these tattoos.
Are the patterns the same now as they have always been, or are new ones added from time to time at the expense of older ones?
Dolce et decorum est pro imperator mori |
Makkar
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Posted - 2005.08.03 16:18:00 -
[47]
I have absolutely no idea. It would stand to reason that some have been lost and others added or adapted to replace them, though... You Amarr did your best to erase our culture, remember?
The ritual significance of the tatoos and the voluval itself remains unchanged, though.
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Lorna Doone
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Posted - 2005.08.03 17:28:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Rodj Blake
How can I respect your way of life if I don't even understand it?
You seem to have no problems disrespecting it without understanding it. And I too am curious as to why slavers are taking this sudden interest in the culture they are trying so desperately to annihilate.
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"Meantime, all around me is violence and robbery, coarse delight and savage pain, reckless joke and hopeless death." |
Pulgor
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Posted - 2005.08.03 19:07:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Lorna Doone
You seem to have no problems disrespecting it without understanding it. And I too am curious as to why slavers are taking this sudden interest in the culture they are trying so desperately to annihilate.
The answer is obvious. Eradicating it didn't work, therefore understanding and assimilating it would be the next step.
Khaldorn, simply say you will never answer the question instead of leading the poor slavers on. To say they respect your right to freedom would then logically indicate that they do not support slavery. I know you know this, you're trying to put them in a logical trap. It will fail.
I would like to thank Sarkos' for his explanation as it seems to make sense. However I could probably never understand denying someone the chance to prove his quality, simply because he got a slaver fang, or a broken shield. Even slaves are given the chance to prove their quality, which practice is more barbaric?
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UQS Battleminer.
Get you the hot lasers of gank omen to die! |
Shuo Ban
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Posted - 2005.08.03 20:11:00 -
[50]
It is indeed odd the sudden interest in our society. I take reservation in any information that is passed for the simple reason that it will be used against us one way or the other.
There might be indeed some minority who are interested for the sake of research but even those will gladly share the information with the slavers.
Our rituals are not something to discuss with your race Amarians.
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Sarkos
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Posted - 2005.08.04 04:07:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Pulgor
Originally by: Lorna Doone
You seem to have no problems disrespecting it without understanding it. And I too am curious as to why slavers are taking this sudden interest in the culture they are trying so desperately to annihilate.
The answer is obvious. Eradicating it didn't work, therefore understanding and assimilating it would be the next step.
Khaldorn, simply say you will never answer the question instead of leading the poor slavers on. To say they respect your right to freedom would then logically indicate that they do not support slavery. I know you know this, you're trying to put them in a logical trap. It will fail.
I would like to thank Sarkos' for his explanation as it seems to make sense. However I could probably never understand denying someone the chance to prove his quality, simply because he got a slaver fang, or a broken shield. Even slaves are given the chance to prove their quality, which practice is more barbaric?
Pulgor, the chance is always there. People that receive these 'bad' marks leave, they are not thrown out, though in some areas the individual is shunned. Perhaps in some ways the bad marks are self prophesising.
Sarkos
Either free the slaves or we will come and get them.
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Sarkos
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Posted - 2005.08.04 04:36:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Rodj Blake
I have another question about these tattoos.
Are the patterns the same now as they have always been, or are new ones added from time to time at the expense of older ones?
I am in belief, as are many others that the actual marks have never changed, as people never change. As to how the marks are made, I could spout scientific and medical reasons the formula produces a change in skin pigmentation, but there is only one explanation as to why a certain mark is given a person.
Standing on the holy ground and opening ones self to the influence of the spirits, it is they that read your aura and know your destiny. It is they that cause a specific patern to form marking you for all time.
Sarkos
Either free the slaves or we will come and get them.
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2005.08.04 06:31:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Sarkos
Pulgor, the chance is always there. People that receive these 'bad' marks leave, they are not thrown out, though in some areas the individual is shunned. Perhaps in some ways the bad marks are self prophesising.
Sarkos
I'd leave if some nutcase wanted to tear my tongue out, or put red-hot pokers in my eyes based on some mark I received.
Originally by: Sarkos
I am in belief, as are many others that the actual marks have never changed, as people never change. As to how the marks are made, I could spout scientific and medical reasons the formula produces a change in skin pigmentation, but there is only one explanation as to why a certain mark is given a person.
Do people with marks change?
Originally by: Sarkos
Standing on the holy ground and opening ones self to the influence of the spirits, it is they that read your aura and know your destiny. It is they that cause a specific patern to form marking you for all time.
Sarkos
Bah, hogwash. That's no better then saying the Amarr are God's Children and the inherited the universe when God died.
Ho ho ho, double blasphemy.
[Come to Daddy]
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Logan Xerxes
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Posted - 2005.08.04 07:05:00 -
[54]
Another reason why the caldari system should be instituded. Your rank and future is achived through ability rather than some arbitary mesure.
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Pulgor
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Posted - 2005.08.04 07:23:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Pulgor on 04/08/2005 07:24:13
Originally by: Sarkos
Pulgor, the chance is always there. People that receive these 'bad' marks leave, they are not thrown out, though in some areas the individual is shunned. Perhaps in some ways the bad marks are self prophesising.
Sarkos
People do change though. Look at Khanjohn. Once a stalwart supporter of the Amarr way he now fights for the Ushra'Khan. If he had a tattoo would it change or no? People can change, that's what makes enlightenment possible!
I'll have to agree with Disco on this one.... great... now look what you did, I'm agreeing with Disco, this is bad! 
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UQS Battleminer.
Get you the hot lasers of gank omen to die! |
Khaldorn Murino
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Posted - 2005.08.04 09:00:00 -
[56]
Slavers still have no clue do they? How long did they ensalve our race for, and they learnt nothing.
And Pulgor, slaves have no escape from slavery, apart from that which we provide. But, as an Amarrian mouth piece, I would expect no more from you. You simply echo the voices of your Amarrian masters.
Your right tho, I will not discuss such matters with a people who only seek the destruction and enslavement of my entire race. These murderering, enslaving coakroaches can burn in whatever hell they believe in.
You still do not understand one bit. My terms are given.
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"I once heard tale about a CURE"
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Gaven Lok'ri
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Posted - 2005.08.04 09:15:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Gaven Lok''ri on 04/08/2005 09:15:06
Quote:
And Pulgor, slaves have no escape from slavery, apart from that which we provide.
I do believe you will find that this is quite false. Either because what you offer is not really an escape, or because the Amarr have been known to free slaves every once and a while.
Either way your statement is as false as this ritual that some of my fellow praetorians seem so interested in.
God is with us. |
Discorporation
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Posted - 2005.08.04 09:18:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri
Either way your statement is as false as this ritual that some of my fellow praetorians seem so interested in.
Can you prove it is false, Mr. Lok'ri?
I'm half tempted to have the procedure done myself to see the result, but the thought of a minmatar stabbing me in the chest and the spine isn't a very pleasant one
[Come to Daddy]
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Khaldorn Murino
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Posted - 2005.08.04 09:47:00 -
[59]
I'll do it for you Amarrian..
No, my point coackroach, is that you put them in chains, and you keep them in chains.
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"I once heard tale about a CURE"
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2005.08.04 10:07:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Khaldorn Murino
I'll do it for you Amarrian..
Are you Voushod, like Sarkos?
[Come to Daddy]
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