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Discorporation
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Posted - 2005.08.05 10:45:00 -
[91]
 Originally by: lo fih
I'm sure that if you take time to read it you'll find most of the answers.
(( Seeing as it's a narrative, I'm treating it as a document with the information it gives. I very much doubt Karin penned it down like that  ))
I asked. It's reasonable to assume that the information I want ain't in there.
[Come to Daddy]
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Karn Mithralia
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Posted - 2005.08.05 11:31:00 -
[92]
The information is there, as it is in my posts and in those of other Matari. You are either blind, or you ask frivolous questions purely to draw a reponse. Which is it?
For just a moment drop the intellect, read what has been said and try and see it from the view of those saying it. Read the tales of the Voluval, and put yourself in the position of a participant.
Does anyone there not understand what is going on? Is there ever any doubt among the participants what a mark means? Are any of those Revealed really that surprised at their marks?
It seems not to me. All the answers are there Amarr; you just need to have the eyes to see.
An' la' Afham |
Discorporation
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Posted - 2005.08.05 11:47:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Karn Mithralia
The information is there, as it is in my posts and in those of other Matari. You are either blind, or you ask frivolous questions purely to draw a reponse. Which is it?
I'm legally blind. Sure, these perception implants help and all, but I can't see a thing without them..
Originally by: Karn Mithralia
For just a moment drop the intellect, read what has been said and try and see it from the view of those saying it. Read the tales of the Voluval, and put yourself in the position of a participant.
How can I when no one offers it to me?
To put it otherwise, how am I going to understand a ritual, and how the stuff you inject works, if I'm not shown examples? I'm genuinely curious here..
Originally by: Karn Mithralia
Does anyone there not understand what is going on? Is there ever any doubt among the participants what a mark means? Are any of those Revealed really that surprised at their marks?
Of course they are. I have no doubt whatsoever that someone with a Slavers Fang is pretty damned surprised to get one. Adolescents don't often expect bad things happening to 'em.
Originally by: Karn Mithralia
It seems not to me. All the answers are there Amarr; you just need to have the eyes to see.
Do implants count too?
[Come to Daddy]
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Rodj Blake
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Posted - 2005.08.05 12:23:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Karn Mithralia
Is there ever any doubt among the participants what a mark means?
Judging by some of the comments from Minmatars on this thread, the answer is a resounding "yes".
Dolce et decorum est pro imperator mori |
Randuin MaraL
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Posted - 2005.08.05 14:01:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Sarkos
... our forefathers made extensive use of nanites.
... nanites were used to build cities that blended with the natural surroundings ...
... some of these ancient structures ... have survived the holocaust that was the orbital bombardment of our worlds, and that they lay below the surface now, waiting to be found ...
This is right, brother.
____________________________________________________
Never be in the company of anyone with whom you would not want to die.
MEDUSA veteran, Khumaak Award winner |
Sarkos
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Posted - 2005.08.05 23:01:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Rodj Blake
Originally by: Karn Mithralia
Is there ever any doubt among the participants what a mark means?
Judging by some of the comments from Minmatars on this thread, the answer is a resounding "yes".
Answer: NO, the marks are known to the children of Matar.
Sarkos
Either free the slaves or we will come and get them.
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Pulgor
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Posted - 2005.08.06 00:34:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Sarkos
Originally by: Rodj Blake
Originally by: Karn Mithralia
Is there ever any doubt among the participants what a mark means?
Judging by some of the comments from Minmatars on this thread, the answer is a resounding "yes".
Answer: NO, the marks are known to the children of Matar.
Sarkos
But there are hundreds of them. I hardly believe you just instinctivly known. Isn't there a book or something that lists them all?
-----------------------------------
UQS Battleminer.
Get you the hot lasers of gank omen to die! |
lo fih
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Posted - 2005.08.06 01:25:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Pulgor
Originally by: Sarkos
Originally by: Rodj Blake
Originally by: Karn Mithralia
Is there ever any doubt among the participants what a mark means?
Judging by some of the comments from Minmatars on this thread, the answer is a resounding "yes".
Answer: NO, the marks are known to the children of Matar.
Sarkos
But there are hundreds of them. I hardly believe you just instinctivly known. Isn't there a book or something that lists them all?
read...
- - like a space monkey - - |
Pulgor
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Posted - 2005.08.06 04:14:00 -
[99]
Exactly, you'll have to read that large book. I can't imagine anyone remembering every tattoo.
-----------------------------------
UQS Battleminer.
Get you the hot lasers of gank omen to die! |
Khaldorn Murino
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Posted - 2005.08.08 16:36:00 -
[100]
I see the slavers like to prove my point of sheerly asking about a ritual to simply poke fun at it and denounce it as ridiculous. Which is what they would have done no matter what you answered.
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"I once heard tale about a CURE"
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Rodj Blake
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Posted - 2005.08.08 17:46:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Khaldorn Murino
I see the slavers like to prove my point of sheerly asking about a ritual to simply poke fun at it and denounce it as ridiculous. Which is what they would have done no matter what you answered.
Well, it certainly wasn't my aim to poke fun at your heretical rituals.
If your comments are directed at me, perhaps the fun poking has more do with your interpretation rather than my intention.
Dolce et decorum est pro imperator mori |
Angelice
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Posted - 2005.08.08 21:54:00 -
[102]
There are a few points that have been made that the inquisitive Amarr have not grasped on to. This is mainly due to the fact that they have been made in passing without adequate explanation.
Apologies, us Matari are often impatient with the likes of slavers. Those of us sensible enough to see an oportunity for enlightenment on both sides are happy to discuss the aspects of the ritual that we are at liberty to share.
Firstly, allow me to clarify the first major misconception that is the significance of the markings that appear. As has been stated, these represent the true nature of the subject and are untainted by actions or desires. Therefore the marking that appears cannot be disputed as it is a true representation of a Matari's being. As such the fact that Matari are judged by their markings is perfectly rational and acceptable. Even the subject of the marking will invariably accept its significance as they are aware of their nature. Exceptions arise occasionally as people delude themselves either due to tainted dreams (greed, denial, etc...) or simply because of medically identifiable mental illnesses (schizophrenia being the primary diagnosis).
Secondly, allow me to clarify some of the markings that have been paraded as indicating uncivilised practices. The ones that have figured most throughout this discussion were exile and the removal of one's tongue. I will deal with these separately as they have very different significance.
The removal of the tongue is carried out (with the agreement of the subject) when the markings show an ability to carry out great feats of mental acrobatics. It is widely known that thought is best served by silence. Those wishing to undergo this extreme measure have accepted the ultimate sacrifice in order to further the persuit of pure knowledge. Some of the brightest minds in the Minmatar Republic bear this mark.
With regards to exile, there are various markings that warrant this measure. Generally they represent cunning, criminal tendencies and the harbouring of immoral or violent thoughts. These Matari are exiled for their own benefit rather than detriment. As it is clear that these subjects would not function to the best of their abilities within society and require the opportunity of self sufficiency to prosper, they are cast out. Many Matari embrace this freedom and have become famous in their own rights throughout the galaxy as bounty hunters, mercenaries and so on... Of course there are also those that do not commit themselves to their destiny and satisfy themselves with simple lives in one of the many outcast colonies.
In summation, the markings allow the Matari people to diversify far more effectively as people are more inclined to follow their true nature rather than the latest fashions, trends, employment market requirements, etc... This means that success is more likely and standards are higher within Matari society. This explains in part the widespread hostility towards the Amarr Empire which is seen as brutish and lazy (hence their need for slaves in order to sustain themselves). It also explains the waning of our technology during periods of war or civil unrest during which the ritual has been either rejected, overlooked or caused economic imbalance.
I offer now the explanation of my own markings, for I have undergone the process three times (apologies I am not at liberty to explain why I have undergone this on multiple occasions). I have three separate markings, all on my face, all originating from my eyes like daggers or claws onto my cheeks and one on to my forehead. These designate someone of keen perception and unshakeable willpower. Generally thought to be the sign of a hunter/gatherer, it can also indicate someone of principal, self-dependance and diverse ability.
I hope you have found this information valuable. The Matari are not at liberty to discuss the nature of how this technology works due to its highly personal and socialogical significance
Angelice
Corp Hussy
Black Nova Corporation
"To see the right and not to do it is cowardice." - Confucius |
Discorporation
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Posted - 2005.08.09 06:42:00 -
[103]
Now, that's good information.
How does the process work?
[Come to Daddy]
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Pulgor
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Posted - 2005.08.09 07:38:00 -
[104]
I find it halarious that someone from lawless space. A demographic of pilots that rarely take interest in the discussions here on the summit. Can better explain the marking process more clearly then those of the Ushra'Khan. However it may be due to lack of trying on the Ushra'Khan's part.
Good explanations, Angelice.
-----------------------------------
UQS Battleminer.
Get you the hot lasers of gank omen to die! |
Khaldorn Murino
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Posted - 2005.08.09 09:35:00 -
[105]
Just because someone is from 'lawless' space. Doesn't make them any less Minmatar than any of the Minmatar in the 'Khan.
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"I once heard tale about a CURE"
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lo fih
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Posted - 2005.08.09 10:44:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Pulgor
I find it halarious that someone from lawless space. A demographic of pilots that rarely take interest in the discussions here on the summit. Can better explain the marking process more clearly then those of the Ushra'Khan. However it may be due to lack of trying on the Ushra'Khan's part.
Good explanations, Angelice.
I too live in lawless space, but like all TRUE Matari we submited to the process of marking before we became pod pilots. And the fact that we live in lawless space does not make us less Matari than others... You as an ammatar even though a traitor should respect it... and know about your kin...
- - like a space monkey - -
-- Code as if whoever maintains your program is a violent psychopath who knows where you live -- |
Sarkos
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Posted - 2005.08.09 11:18:00 -
[107]
Edited by: Sarkos on 09/08/2005 11:18:43
Originally by: Pulgor
I find it halarious that someone from lawless space. A demographic of pilots that rarely take interest in the discussions here on the summit. Can better explain the marking process more clearly then those of the Ushra'Khan. However it may be due to lack of trying on the Ushra'Khan's part.
Good explanations, Angelice.
Pulgor,
Angelice did indeed give a very concise explanation. Her markings show an incredible willpower, something needed to deal with the likes of the Amarr and Ammatar who would use a public medium in an attempt to make fun of our spiritual ways.
Sarkos
Either free the slaves or we will come and get them.
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Zandorak X
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Posted - 2005.08.09 13:04:00 -
[108]
This is rather fascinating information, however i have a question. Now these marking show who you really are, i do not doubt that since i dealt with a lot of Matari, but people do change as they grow, good may change to evil and vice verso. Do the marking "Change" as you change? or is one caged for what he was forever??
_______________________
I am a one mean thinking, fighting, pvping and lovin machine..
Oh and i'm darn good lookin 2 |
lo fih
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Posted - 2005.08.09 13:24:00 -
[109]
The mark reflects your inner self, your sub-conscious, not what you do with it. It defines your uttermost personality traits. How you apply them is up to you, good or evil is not a trait ;)
- - like a space monkey - -
-- Code as if whoever maintains your program is a violent psychopath who knows where you live -- |
Carvas
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Posted - 2005.08.09 13:56:00 -
[110]
One can move towards the destiny assigned, and equally one can walk away from it.
The potential does not change, merely because we deny it.
One marked may turn his back upon his calling if he so wishes, and pursue a different path, but he will never know his true potential if he ignores the spirits.
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2005.08.09 14:20:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Carvas
One can move towards the destiny assigned, and equally one can walk away from it.
The potential does not change, merely because we deny it.
One marked may turn his back upon his calling if he so wishes, and pursue a different path, but he will never know his true potential if he ignores the spirits.
Really?
Then why are some exiled regardless of their actions to prove their mark wrong? Is that because your people don't believe that the mark can be proven wrong?
[Come to Daddy]
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Khaldorn Murino
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Posted - 2005.08.09 14:56:00 -
[112]
Show me such an individual, I would like to know what he did to prove it wrong and if he believed that exile was the best course. There are many interpretations of exile, exile from the tribe, exile from the planet, exile from his home, exile from the Republic..
In any case, I would like to meet this person you have been speaking too.
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"I once heard tale about a CURE"
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Eddie Gordo
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Posted - 2005.08.09 15:26:00 -
[113]
I for one am proud of my markings. I care not if a vile slaver pokes fun at me, for should I meet him in space, or in person...he will regret it.
Jua'simba'bua
Instas??
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Angelice
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Posted - 2005.08.09 16:32:00 -
[114]
To clarify on the point that seems to be as yet unresolved, the marking shows a subject's primary characteristic. Of course any Matari can overcome this characteristic should they so choose but their path will be a difficult one. Their lesser characters must come forth and take dominance over their spirit.
Although the notion of exiling those that have certain markings may seem uncivilised (notably from an individualistic point of view), one should think of it on a larger sociological scale. If Matari with a propensity to commit dishonorable of violent acts are confined within society then this would lead to both the detriment of society as a whole but also, more importantly, to the individual who commits themself along this path leading them to face the wrath of society and the extreme measures that can often be imposed by a state's law. If the individual is outcast then they are given the opportunity to act freely outside of Matari society without fear of persecution.
For Matari that are not exiled, their actions will of course allow them to overcome the symbolism of their markings if they are successful within society along their chosen path. For those that are exiled they too can prove themselves to their fellow outcast and the universe at large. Ultimately it boils down to the fact that the marking that appears is, overtly or secretly, exactly what you crave and what you excel at.
With regards to how the process works, as stated this is not a topic that can be discussed outside of Matari society. I would be happy however to offer our inquisitive Amarr something to ponder over, in order to perhaps guide them along the path towards their own personal truth. If you consider for a moment the workings of your precious Vitoc virus, how the subject has their will dampened by the threat of horrific death and the prospect of euphoric relief. The goal of this excercise is quite clearly to surpress the true nature of the slave and force him along an alternative path. This is a very simple thing to accomplish using the insidious qualities of a disease and the false hope of an antidote in order to manipulate a slave psychologically. Unfortunately, the fundamental flaw in this process is the fact that psychology can never be a precise science and as such subjects will often suffer death in order to rebel and maintain their principals. In addition, the notion of this proceedure will always seem distasteful to anyone who does not directly benefit from it meaning that slavery is a practice that is ultimately doomed to extinction.
If we now come back to the subject of how the Voluval process works, bearing in mind the workings of the Vitoc agent, and you reverse the Amarr thought process... that is to say, examine the will of the subject, present it with a complete set of mental stimuli, and output these as a marking symbolising the subject's most dominant characteristic (or as in my case with the following two proceedures, the secondary and tertiary characteristics). The direct benefit of this ritual being that both the subject and society are (generally) clear on where they stand vis Ó vis one another.
The mechanics of how this is done are of course a well kept secret, although it is commonly known that that nanites are required in order to carry out the many complex steps. This is only done at maturity to ensure that the subject's brain has reached full development and can no longer create additional pathways which would cause obvious errors to occur.
As a final note with regards to clarifying my own circumstances that have been speculated over since my post, my second home within Fountain & Period Basis allow me a convenient view of the Amarr Empire from both sides... My allegiance to the Minmatar Republic is unshakeable and I will do all that is within my power to bring peace and freedom to my people wherever they may be in the universe. I also strive to assist the Amarr themselves in recovering slave dependancy.
Angelice
Corp Hussy
Black Nova Corporation
Allegiance to the Brutor Tribe & Republic Fleet.
"To see the right and not to do it is cowardice." - Confucius |
Khaldorn Murino
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Posted - 2005.08.09 16:46:00 -
[115]
On the nanites sister, I have to disagree. The voluval is chemically based, there are no nanites within the mixture, that is what I was told.
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"I once heard tale about a CURE"
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Eddie Gordo
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Posted - 2005.08.09 16:54:00 -
[116]
tatoo's based on nanite technology have only been around for the best part of a decade. they were designed as a possible replacement for traditional war tattos. They are only displayed at times of hieghtend emotion.
Instas??
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Angelice
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Posted - 2005.08.09 18:00:00 -
[117]
Edited by: Angelice on 09/08/2005 18:00:20
Apologies for arguing against you brother but I feel you have perhaps confused nanites with nano-tatoos. Both are a by product of the ancient science of nanotechnology, a technology developed well before even the discovery of the Eve Gate into this universe.
Below is a brief description of nano-tatoos from a reputable scientific source:
"The nano-tattoos are very small microchips, surgically implanted between the epidermal and dermal layers of the skin. These microchips are connected to the nervous system via the hair and sweat glands' paravertebral ganglia, and are activated when the host becomes emotionally upset or excited. When active, the microchips emit dark or light color (depending on the person's skin color), resulting in patterns appearing on the face."
Nanites on the other hand are far more complex devices and it is not clear whether even the advanced Jovians are aware of how they are created. The only thing I am certain of is that the Minmatar no longer have the mechanical expertise at this point in time to manufacture them. They are microscopic machines, the simplest of which can sometimes be as small as a single atom, the more complicated of which can possess artificial intelligence and a variety of functions. Fortunately the Voluval ritual does not destroy these precious devices for they are, for all intents and purposes, invulnerable and as such the tradition can continue regardless. The value of these particular nanites cannot be underestimated by the Matari people and our primary concern is to keep them safe at all times. Regardless, the actual nanites are perfectly equipped to look after themselves should the need arise.
Of course I cannot possibly back this up with any solid evidence as no one would ever be able to study these particular nanites. They will not, despite all attempts, allow themselves to be examined under any circumstances. However, I can assure you that the complex steps needed in order to carry out the underlying process of the Voluval ritual would require far more control than any chemical compound could afford by itself.
Angelice
Corp Hussy
Black Nova Corporation
Allegiance to the Brutor Tribe & Republic Fleet.
"To see the right and not to do it is cowardice." - Confucius |
Discorporation
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Posted - 2005.08.09 19:01:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Khaldorn Murino
Show me such an individual, I would like to know what he did to prove it wrong and if he believed that exile was the best course. There are many interpretations of exile, exile from the tribe, exile from the planet, exile from his home, exile from the Republic..
Vasdenjas Bokor. Exiled because of the Voluval mark he received. Became one of the foremost pro-amarrians in Endless Corporation. I doubt you've heard of him, but he's one of the few I've spoken to myself.
Originally by: Khaldorn Murino
In any case, I would like to meet this person you have been speaking too.
You can't. He's MIA.
[Come to Daddy]
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Khaldorn Murino
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Posted - 2005.08.09 19:25:00 -
[119]
Then we will have to agree to disagree sister.
-
"I once heard tale about a CURE"
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Pulgor
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Posted - 2005.08.09 20:03:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Sarkos
Pulgor,
Angelice did indeed give a very concise explanation. Her markings show an incredible willpower, something needed to deal with the likes of the Amarr and Ammatar who would use a public medium in an attempt to make fun of our spiritual ways.
Sarkos
I am unsure how I attempted to make fun of your beliefs? I offered some skeptisism which Angilece has mostly removed with her analysis.
Perhaps you should take some notes from this individual and simply offer a well rounded response. If you are then made fun of by your detractors, cease the line of conversation with them, having answered their query. In return they can do the same for you.
I am unsure why this concept of simple exchange is so difficult for you, although perhaps that is why you havn't seen the light of the Ammatar Way yet.
-----------------------------------
UQS Battleminer.
Get you the hot lasers of gank omen to die! |
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