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Black Cadelanne
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
1
   |
Posted - 2013.02.25 15:07:00 -
[91] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:You were hauling stuff while you were at war with someone and died so you feel the need to complain about it on the forums. Roger that.
This! |
Dave Stark
1861
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 15:12:00 -
[92] - Quote
Aren Madigan wrote:Tyrton wrote:Aren Madigan wrote:To be fair, to be killed because of a serverside hardware issue does border on bullshit... but it is kind of the risk you take when you hit Jita rather than another trade hub. 1) He was flying a indy ship "unfitted". 2)He is in FW that means WAR is constant. He should have operated with that in mind. 3)Jita .... The best thing is he spins this incom.... misfortune as the Minmatars put sleeper cells deep in Caldari space with the intention of crippling profit from the blood of their fallen comrade. All I'm going to say is that while 1) was a fit of stupidity on his part, it ultimately was irrelevant in his death. In this particular case its a seperate issue... a mistake that actually saved him ISK disturbingly enough.
2) was also irrelevant.
if the gate wasn't closed, he wouldn't have been shot at, as he'd have jumped straight through.
also, it can be argued 3) is irrelevant, because a gate is a gate. you don't expect it to be closed.
"100k for notifications of stupidity, i love this bounty system." |
Aren Madigan
EVE University
Ivy League
122
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 15:18:00 -
[93] - Quote
Hard to say with 2... depends on if the wartarget was waiting for easy targets in the area or not. His align time would have been hellish on the other side. |
Ares Farway
Perkone
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 15:54:00 -
[94] - Quote
OP could have had 1k alts in Jita and jumped them out in order to be able to jump but he couldn't BECAUSE OF HARDWARE RESTRICTIONS!!! |
Milan Nantucket
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 17:37:00 -
[95] - Quote
TheBlueMonkey wrote:Milan Nantucket wrote:Here is how you get around war targets camping Jita...
First get one of you other toons (one account = three toons) create a corp. Your main submits an app to new corp.... your new ceo submits an invitation. Now leave the invite open.
Next time your stuck at Jita gate with a wartarget you wait until he starts shooting at you... then accept the invite and watch you old wt get concorded.... hehe Sounds like an exploit
Let someone say it officially please. My mains corp recently suffered they exact thing costing us a few billion in T3 Cruisers sploded by Conord because a WT switch corps in the middle of the fight. Still awaiting on the petition but I expect it to be working as intended like everything else. |
Aren Madigan
EVE University
Ivy League
125
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 17:43:00 -
[96] - Quote
Milan Nantucket wrote:TheBlueMonkey wrote:Milan Nantucket wrote:Here is how you get around war targets camping Jita...
First get one of you other toons (one account = three toons) create a corp. Your main submits an app to new corp.... your new ceo submits an invitation. Now leave the invite open.
Next time your stuck at Jita gate with a wartarget you wait until he starts shooting at you... then accept the invite and watch you old wt get concorded.... hehe Sounds like an exploit Let someone say it officially please. My mains corp recently suffered they exact thing costing us a few billion in T3 Cruisers sploded by Conord because a WT switch corps in the middle of the fight. Still awaiting on the petition but I expect it to be working as intended like everything else.
I doubt that's a working as intended scenario... that's like the reverse of the joining a corp that has someone wardecced while they're on grid and it ends up with more painful results. I would have to seriously raise my eyebrow if that wasn't an exploit... such a strong eyebrow raise that I'd be forced to post a picture of the Rock doing his eye brow thing since mine wouldn't be good enough on its own. |
Dave Stark
1862
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 17:45:00 -
[97] - Quote
Aren Madigan wrote:Hard to say with 2... depends on if the wartarget was waiting for easy targets in the area or not. His align time would have been hellish on the other side.
yeah but then he'd have been popped on the other side of the gate and it WOULD have been his stupidity.
as it stands a gate randomly being closed isn't exactly pilot error, all else aside.
"100k for notifications of stupidity, i love this bounty system." |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
3636
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 17:46:00 -
[98] - Quote
1: Any gate in EvE can have (and in busier sytems, has had) traffic control kick in. This is a reality of properly functioning game mechanics under high load, and is something you much take into account may happen when traveling... not attempt to use as an excuse for extremely unwise choices.
2: He would have been popped on the other side of the gate even if he had been able to jump immediately.
3: There are countless reasons why just about any pilot in EvE will tell you not to fly valuable goods in a hauler, particularly if you are at war. This is only one of them.
Frankly the silver lining is that the pilot "might" have learned some common sense, and will be a better EvE pilot in the future because of it.
... but then this thread happened.
To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors.
If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
3636
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 17:48:00 -
[99] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Aren Madigan wrote:Hard to say with 2... depends on if the wartarget was waiting for easy targets in the area or not. His align time would have been hellish on the other side. yeah but then he'd have been popped on the other side of the gate and it WOULD have been his stupidity. as it stands a gate randomly being closed isn't exactly pilot error, all else aside.
Pilot error entered into the picture long before he arrived at the Jita gate.
To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors.
If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Dave Stark
1863
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 17:53:00 -
[100] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Aren Madigan wrote:Hard to say with 2... depends on if the wartarget was waiting for easy targets in the area or not. His align time would have been hellish on the other side. yeah but then he'd have been popped on the other side of the gate and it WOULD have been his stupidity. as it stands a gate randomly being closed isn't exactly pilot error, all else aside. Pilot error entered into the picture long before he arrived at the Jita gate.
except that really had nothing to do with him being in the situation he was in when he got locked and shot at. that was a direct result of the gate being closed, had it not been closed, he wouldn't have been there.
i'm not denying the OP is an idiot, i'm just saying that's not why he got killed.
"100k for notifications of stupidity, i love this bounty system." |
Aren Madigan
EVE University
Ivy League
126
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 17:56:00 -
[101] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Aren Madigan wrote:Hard to say with 2... depends on if the wartarget was waiting for easy targets in the area or not. His align time would have been hellish on the other side. yeah but then he'd have been popped on the other side of the gate and it WOULD have been his stupidity. as it stands a gate randomly being closed isn't exactly pilot error, all else aside. Pilot error entered into the picture long before he arrived at the Jita gate.
He could have made a thousand errors, ten thousand errors, even a million errors, but if none of those errors are what caused the problem in the first place, its ultimately irrelevant to the situation at hand and is just an excuse to ignore what actually happened. Nothing more, nothing less. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
3636
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 18:03:00 -
[102] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Aren Madigan wrote:Hard to say with 2... depends on if the wartarget was waiting for easy targets in the area or not. His align time would have been hellish on the other side. yeah but then he'd have been popped on the other side of the gate and it WOULD have been his stupidity. as it stands a gate randomly being closed isn't exactly pilot error, all else aside. Pilot error entered into the picture long before he arrived at the Jita gate. except that really had nothing to do with him being in the situation he was in when he got locked and shot at. that was a direct result of the gate being closed, had it not been closed, he wouldn't have been there. i'm not denying the OP is an idiot, i'm just saying that's not why he got killed.
The red saw him in local, landed immediately after the OP attempted to jump through. Had his attempt been successful the Minmatar would have simply followed him in and popped him while aligning (which is exactly what he did, just on the other side of the gate). The situation would have been identical, except it would have occured in Jita instead.
The reason he died was because of the choices he made prior to undocking. Once he did so, his fate was sealed. Only the location of his death changed.
You need to remember that "Traffic Control" is a legitimate game mechanic, put in place intentionally to throttle traffic when a system has a high load on it. We are seeing it more often now, and will continue to do so, but it has been part of the "reality" of this game for years... and pilots really have no excuse for not being aware of the possibility.
So again, this was not a bug. This was a very predictable game mechanic that he completely failed to take into account (among many, many other things).
Again, the cause of this pilots death was due to the choices he made before he undocked.
To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors.
If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Aren Madigan
EVE University
Ivy League
126
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 18:04:00 -
[103] - Quote
Keep in mind, its a predictable game mechanic, but its not widely advertised. |
Dave Stark
1863
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 18:10:00 -
[104] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:except it would have occured in Jita instead.
exactly, so the gate being closed, was the reason he died where he did, in the situation he was in.
other side of the gate = pilot error.
the side he died on = not pilot error, since an individual pilot doesn't control whether the gate is open or not.
"100k for notifications of stupidity, i love this bounty system." |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
3636
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 18:21:00 -
[105] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:except it would have occured in Jita instead. exactly, so the gate being closed, was the reason he died where he did, in the situation he was in. other side of the gate = pilot error. the side he died on = not pilot error, since an individual pilot doesn't control whether the gate is open or not.
It doesn't matter which side of the gate he died on, that isn't what he is complaining about. He's trying to blame his inability to jump through immediately for causing his death, which is not the case at all.
There are many things in EvE that a pilot cannot directly control, however that does not mean that he should not be aware of those things and make his plans accordingly.
To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors.
If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
3636
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 18:24:00 -
[106] - Quote
Aren Madigan wrote:Keep in mind, its a predictable game mechanic, but its not widely advertised.
They used to send out a pop up to everyone whenever a gate was experiencing traffic control.
Due to the storm of protests from EvE pilots they had to remove the mechanic.
Now to raise awareness I could see this as a good addition to the Autopilot information panel, or possibly the proposed Notifications information panel, where the traffic control notification only appears if one of the systems in your route is experiencing traffic control.
This solution could perhaps solve the issue of using traffic control as an excuse to justify bad decisions.
To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors.
If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Aren Madigan
EVE University
Ivy League
126
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 18:28:00 -
[107] - Quote
Why would people complain about that? Or was it appearing to EVERYONE regardless of how far away they were? |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
3636
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 18:30:00 -
[108] - Quote
Aren Madigan wrote:Why would people complain about that? Or was it appearing to EVERYONE regardless of how far away they were?
To everyone.
Now perhaps it could be a more focused notification.
To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors.
If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Steve Spooner
Divine Spirit DSM
Strategic Operations Brigade
3
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 06:30:00 -
[109] - Quote
It appears that people coming in to this thread assume I'm posting because of me crying for my loss and I say nay, I care not. I lost a 250 mill isk raven just earlier today because I felt grabbing a sandwich and forgot to get some missiles, my fault my loss. However in the case of my badger it was not due to my error but rather a "legitimate game mechanic" that I was killed. |
Dave Stark
1866
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 07:22:00 -
[110] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote: He's trying to blame his inability to jump through immediately for causing his death, which is not the case at all.
except, it is.
"100k for notifications of stupidity, i love this bounty system." |
Sol Weinstein
Lunatic Warfare Federation
76
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 08:46:00 -
[111] - Quote
Steve Spooner wrote:
To clarify: My corp participates in faction warfare as Caldari state protecterate.
The corporation I am in has no active war declarations.
Was this pointed out to you already?
If not, your corp is in a militia that has a standing active war declaration. Two of them.
Just thought I would point it out.
Thank you.
Respect the EVE.
The Savior of EVE
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=205546&find=unread |
dark heartt
I Own Four Sheep
Silent Requiem
47
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 08:55:00 -
[112] - Quote
Steve Spooner wrote:It appears that people coming in to this thread assume I'm posting because of me crying for my loss and I say nay, I care not. I lost a 250 mill isk raven just earlier today because I felt grabbing a sandwich and forgot to get some missiles, my fault my loss. However in the case of my badger it was not due to my error but rather a "legitimate game mechanic" that I was killed.
This post just convinced me that you are probably not the smartest guy around. Is it that hard to dock up when you need food? Is it that hard to tank your ship? Even just one med extender would have made it harder for them to kill that badger.
You have won my daily Darwin Award. Congrats and please don't procreate. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
3859
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 09:05:00 -
[113] - Quote
Steve Spooner wrote:It appears that people coming in to this thread assume I'm posting because of me crying for my loss and I say nay, I care not. I lost a 250 mill isk raven just earlier today because I felt grabbing a sandwich and forgot to get some missiles, my fault my loss. However in the case of my badger it was not due to my error but rather a "legitimate game mechanic" that I was killed.
You could have used this loss as a valuable opportunity to learn to fly appropriate ships for appropriate tasks. But alas, you don't seem to.
You don't go in with a schoolbus in the middle of a mined warzone, get stuck on a terrain bump, get hit by artillery and then complain against the bump. You just don't go in a warzone with a schoolbus. Period.
It's widely known since years that gate locks happen at Jita.
Deal with it, before others deal with you.
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
March rabbit
player corp n1
569
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 09:12:00 -
[114] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Aren Madigan wrote:Hard to say with 2... depends on if the wartarget was waiting for easy targets in the area or not. His align time would have been hellish on the other side. yeah but then he'd have been popped on the other side of the gate and it WOULD have been his stupidity. as it stands a gate randomly being closed isn't exactly pilot error, all else aside. Pilot error entered into the picture long before he arrived at the Jita gate. except that really had nothing to do with him being in the situation he was in when he got locked and shot at. that was a direct result of the gate being closed, had it not been closed, he wouldn't have been there. i'm not denying the OP is an idiot, i'm just saying that's not why he got killed. The red saw him in local, landed immediately after the OP attempted to jump through. Had his attempt been successful the Minmatar would have simply followed him in and popped him while aligning (which is exactly what he did, just on the other side of the gate). The situation would have been identical, except it would have occured in Jita instead.
yea, because red pilot will never attack target until it jumps.....
or we have no aggression timer  |
Aren Madigan
EVE University
Ivy League
133
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 09:16:00 -
[115] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Aren Madigan wrote:Why would people complain about that? Or was it appearing to EVERYONE regardless of how far away they were? To everyone. Now perhaps it could be a more focused notification.
I'd say they should go for that then... I don't think there's any reason you shouldn't be informed when you're in the same system as the gate. At least when its due to a population lock. If its just because of a bunch of people jumping at once, shouldn't appear. |
Mhax Arthie
Pagan INC
43
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 09:28:00 -
[116] - Quote
300M is not a big loss given the circumstances.
The only problem I see here is that whilst the server population is growing day by day and Jita being the bigest trade hub in EVE, it gets locked down more and more often. So there is a long queue to enter Jita while inside there are hundred of bots spaming or just station trade all day long. And that's extremely annoying for many of us, especially when you are in big rush and have no time to wait.
The solution would be to introduce the parking ticket. You got two hours free, anything more is going to be charged. Longer you stay, more to pay. This way maybe we could get rid of those annoying bots infesting Jita and blocking the legit players to actually play the game. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc
Tribal Band
411
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 10:38:00 -
[117] - Quote
Mhax Arthie wrote:The solution would be to I got a better solution: stop going to Jita and use one of the other 3 major trade hubs. I don't know why this is such a difficult concept. Apparently most people who play EVE lack a sense of apprehension. First time I went to Jita, I felt this incredible sense of foreboding. I knew there was something not right about it. So I avoid that place mostly, and when I do go there, I fly cheaply. Why am I the only one who gets the creeps when I'm there? I don't have a fear of large social gatherings, in fact I actually feel more comfortable in them. But Jita is just creepy. Leave it behind, forget it, you can live your EVE career just as well pretending it doesn't exist!
Mittani, where have you gone to? I miss you :( |
Corey Fumimasa
Kiith Paktu
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
170
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 11:02:00 -
[118] - Quote
Mhax Arthie wrote:
The solution would be to introduce the parking ticket. You got two hours free, anything more is going to be charged. Longer you stay, more to pay. This way maybe we could get rid of those annoying bots infesting Jita and blocking the legit players to actually play the game.
Parking ticket is a cool idea. But there is no problem here to be solved, Jita is well represented as a bustling megaport with spammed advertisements and traffic delays. I love that, there is nothing that could be done to give Jita more character or to make it a more appropriate center of trade in New Eden.
Kudos to CCP and all the scammers, gankers, and badger pilots who make Jita the place that it is!
If you want a more civil trading environment then Amarr is just 9 jumps to the south.
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |
Mike Whiite
Cupid Stunts.
Casoff
136
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 11:22:00 -
[119] - Quote
On topic:
Yes Pilot should have been more careful, not smartest move ect.ect.
Aside from that:
1) It would be nice to have a Empire trafic control channel, It's a Scifi game, if trafic is stuk in Jita it would be nice see that without to much trouble, not only for the sake of not being ganked, as well or the sake of waiting a few hours because I;ve better things to do. Maybe by a empire chat channel, that only leaves messages. Trafic jam at jita/bla trade, Icursion in Black rise region ect ect. Now we have to check forums social media ect ect.
2) I kinda dislike the need for a millitia member to have an alt run your cargo within your own miltia space:
- it's a real obstacle for newer players.
- It makes absolutly no sence that a lowsec system controled by the enemy blocked you from docking in a station but allows you to hang near the gate o their main trade hub.
Might also help people to go to other trade hubs.
It's nice to have the option to use an alt for traveling, though it shouldn't be needed in your own empire.
|
Corey Fumimasa
Kiith Paktu
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
170
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 11:35:00 -
[120] - Quote
Steve Spooner wrote:I recently lost a badger with 350~ million isk worth of ammo, nothing new right?
.....
I was 1000m from the Jita gate, I could have jumped through but nop, officals shut the gate down due to congestion
Out of curiosity why were you bringing ammo into Jita?
*oh nm, I thought I read somewhere you said that you were bringing it in. I get it now.
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |
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