We're the only players that matter... the only ones that care enough to take time to come here

The people who come here all the time love to talk.

You are nothing more than every subscribing player in eve.

Yes CCP, please listen to players who don't even care about the state of the game enough to visit the forums. They're definitely the ones who you'll win or lose by making changes.

We're the only players that matter... the only ones that care enough to take time to come here

Most players don't post on the forums. Please don't take what they say and interpret it as representative of the community as a whole.

This survey is a step in the right direction. I would love to see more surveys in-game as opposed to on the website or on the side of the login screen.

Not posting on a forum =/= not caring about a game.

Yes, it really does. This is where all the discussion about the game takes place. If you don't care to be part of that discussion, that is your choice, and your loss.

If you are so apathetic that even going in to a thread and typing "I agree/disagree" and pressing reply is too much effort, damn right your opinion doesn't matter.

I hope you never get into business... because you would fail... horribly. I believe the saying goes a little like this.. for every customer complaint, 26 remain silent. So by the time the majority of your vocal customers complain, the damage has already gone pretty far.

Yes, it really does. This is where all the discussion about the game takes place. If you don't care to be part of that discussion, that is your choice, and your loss.

If you are so apathetic that even going in to a thread and typing "I agree/disagree" and pressing reply is too much effort, damn right your opinion doesn't matter.

And the suggestion that you ignore the vocal ones helps this... how?

So if the CCP devs make a change based on the 10% suggestion and somehow **** off the 90% off then that is bad for business.

If you don't feel like filling out the surveys, don't vote in the CSM elections, don't get involved in the community, and don't post any sort of criticism in the forums then you really don't have a case if CCP does something you don't like. You have plenty of opportunity to voice your concerns, if you choose not to and something you don't like happens it's your own fault.

You can't possibly ask CCP to read people's minds. They're very communicative and highly receptive to player input, arguably more so than any other game development company on the planet. If you start your dialogue by threatening to press the unsubscribe button any decent business would throw you out the door because it's not worth dealing with your childishness.

Never suggested that they do, but you don't pretend the non-vocal don't exist and you do your best to track what they do so that you serve all your customers to the best of your ability.

Seriously, need to stop putting words into other people's mouths.

You've just described everything a business is expected to do and HAS to deal with in order to be successful. Yeah, I know, hardly seems fair, but that's the business world, they have to look beyond what's immediately visible.

a lot of you forum posters are getting really defensive. obviously there is a bias

You are making the fallacious assumption that the 90% care as much about the details of the game as the 10%. The 10% are a self-selecting group of people who are more likely to care more about such changes.

You are also making the fallacious assumption that that improving the game is as simple as doing what the players ask for. However, in reality, kneejerk reacting to every change request would eventually break the game. Thus suggestions from players who understand the game better should carry more weight than "plz nerf X" posts. And again, the 10% are a self-selecting group of people who are more likely to understand the game better.

Is this addressed at me or yourself? Since you're the one doing it. See above.

And the suggestion that you ignore the vocal ones helps this... how?

What would you suggest, beyond the elections, surveys and forums mentioned in the post you quoted?

And you are resorting to an ad hominem, obviously you realise the weakness of your argument.

I didn't say the 90% cared more. I just said the potential to anger the 90% was there by implementing what the 10% suggested.

We could sit around and talk about the theoreticals of what this could be. I don't care. I am saying it is always possible.

Secondly, you seem to be acting like I said we should implement every change the forums suggest.

And why in the hell would the 10% be more educated about the game?

Posting on the forums do not magically make you better informed about the game.

Right there is where you did it. Herp, derp, derp.

Metrics is a common method... tracking what triggers increase in customer activity.

Maybe you missed the part where I said that yes, I'm pretty sure they did that.

Multiquotes

What survey?

Look. The forums are a hotbed of ignorance of trolling. Threads are usually locked down on a daily basis. How can you tell me with a straighface that the forums are some holy form of euridite uptopia.

I think you think of yourself as some devine incarnation of the mouthpeice of the playerbase simply because you found the forums. Any fool can google "EVE forums" and if they figure out how to type in their user name and password then they are on their way to generating text whether people want it or not.

You aren't any more deserving of playing EVE than someone who doesn't play forum warrior.

And you are only making yourself look like a fool if you say CCP doesn't care about the majoirty of the non-forum players.

Or are you going to tell us that CCP doesn't care about making profits so they can't pay their employees because they decided that they didn't need the majority of their subscriptions who never visted the forums.

Again, nowhere did I even remotely suggest that. That's at least two steps of spectacular failure of reading comprehension away from anything I've said.

What survey?

Again, nowhere did I even remotely suggest that. That's at least two steps of spectacular failure of reading comprehension away from anything I've said.

It's on the bottom of the EVE launcher, below the loading bar.

You wouldnt even know about it if you have it set to automatically launch.

And question... How is CCP listening to people who don't care enough to post of the forums? Do you mean the survey? Are you really telling us that that CCP should just ignore all the effort they put into making the survey in the first place?

There are seriously people who believe that not posting in the forums means you don't care about the game? Wow... just... wow. I'm sorry, but some people refuse to deal with trolls, have their ideas rudely torn apart with no constructive criticism, and I could really write a book report on reasons why someone might care but not post in the forums. Dear lord I hope these people are trolling and avoid any and all jobs where they have to serve customers, because that's the kind of attitude that destroys pretty much any company.

More like one step, but still one step too many since you never said anything about CCP, just your thought that their opinions didn't matter... tone it back a notch, Captain.

So you agree with me that CCP should not offend the majority of their paying user base regardless if they post on the forums or not?

And question... How is CCP listening to people who don't care enough to post of the forums? Do you mean the survey? Are you really telling us that that CCP should just ignore all the effort they put into making the survey in the first place?

I'm not mad. I'm just enjoying winning this round as a forum warrior.

More like one step, but still one step too many since you never said anything about CCP, just your thought that their opinions didn't matter... tone it back a notch, Captain.

Funnily enough I never said there wasn't a problem with what they were already doing, I was just saying there's a problem with you thinking that forum goers are the only ones whose opinions really mattered... so yeah, gg I guess.

Again, how are you getting that I'm saying CCP should ignore anyone? I'm the one saying they should be listening to the people who are talking.

Sorry but what he implied was that only the forum members matter which basically implied that CCP was to throw all the non-forum members under the bus.

So we at least agree that CCP should listen to the survey?

Unvoiced opinions dont matter, just saying. its hard to say someone HAS an opinion if theya rent voicing it, which requires a written/verbalized medium, which is 99% of the time linked in or through these forums.

Since I explicitly said the exact opposite of this all the way back at the top of page two, I can only assume you are trolling at this point.

Unvoiced opinions dont matter, just saying. its hard to say someone HAS an opinion if theya rent voicing it, which requires a written/verbalized medium, which is 99% of the time linked in or through these forums.

And the suggestion that you ignore the vocal ones helps this... how?

Most players don't post on the forums

If someone cant be bothered to post, I cant be bothered to listen- and neither should CCP

Try applying that in the business world and see how far it gets you. (hint: not far)

Look. The forums are a hotbed of ignorance of trolling. Threads are usually locked down on a daily basis. How can you tell me with a straighface that the forums are some holy form of euridite uptopia?

We're the only players that matter... the only ones that care enough to take time to come here

I cant tell if you are being serious.

Is your 15 bucks a month more important than someone that dosnt post on the forums?

I'm not saying that the people who don't post here don't care about the game, a lot of them probably care a lot more than I do. Some people just like to discuss things on a forum more than others. My point still stands though, the forums, no matter how idiotic and ludicrous they can be sometimes, are a good measure of the general opinion of EVE players.