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UglyBugly
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Posted - 2005.08.04 08:04:00 -
[1]
If he has the money to flatten the marketbefore he moves, then he had the money to do it before also.
That part the freighter didn't change. So if he does it now and not before he must have been quite daft.
The only thing is that he can move the whole lot in one trip now. That much I grant. Giving him time to hit other markets or do other stuff.
But the economic outcome for him and you should still be the same.
And remember: He's doing the trade route too. And he is apparently not ******. He is just better than you.
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UglyBugly
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Posted - 2005.08.04 09:32:00 -
[2]
Edited by: UglyBugly on 04/08/2005 09:32:23
Again: If he can buy every damn thing - then he can do that with or without a freighter.
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UglyBugly
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Posted - 2005.08.04 09:53:00 -
[3]
Lets get back to topic:
I will not disagree that freighters will be a bonus for traders. I just think the impact is being exagerated a bit. I think. I am not sure.
So to establish some common ground:
Will the OP and supporters agree that in general the freighter owners ability to flatten the sellers market has not so much to do with his ownership of a freighter? But rather the size of his wallet?
I acknowledge that it can be done faster if he has to take fewer trips.
But if he can buy everything as stated by the OP - then the freighter has nothing to do with it?
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UglyBugly
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Posted - 2005.08.04 10:22:00 -
[4]
The NPC goods are of course a part of the economy.
They are one of the true isk generators. That is: Generating new isk - not just passing isk around.
And if one player can bring in obscene amounts of isk every day, imagine what him and his equals could bring of isk into the game. Generating inflation - just like the lvl4 missions were accused of doing.
Only difference is that the market of NPC goods have a limit to the isk that can be pressed out of it on a daily basis, due to flattening prices.
That and the fact that I think the freighters ability to generate isk for the trader several times faster than before is overrated, is why I don't think the economy will hurt much from this.
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UglyBugly
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Posted - 2005.08.04 13:05:00 -
[5]
This is beginning to sound more and more of money envy.
I still admit that freighters will increase the traders ability to make money. But to flatten a market faster than a transporter you need obscene amounts of isk. Amounts of isk that less than 1000 accounts have according to Oveur. And if someone has that kind of isk, he could flatten it, freighter or not.
Will the people against the freighters in trade a least admit that?
The amount to be made within a certain NPC good market is more or less the same no matter who buys it or how much - as long as it flattens out regularly. Like many of the popular ones do.
So a popular market won't generate more isk than it did before.
The freighter only makes it possible to cut down the number of trips. Which is an advantage - granted. But freighter pilots trained and earned isk to get there. And wont triple your profit from one day to the next on the items you traded in your transport before - or you must have been doing something wrong before.
What I DO see is the items being unwanted for volume reasons by transport/indy pilots getting a revivival.
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UglyBugly
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Posted - 2005.08.04 13:34:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Avon
Originally by: UglyBugly
This is beginning to sound more and more of money envy.
I still admit that freighters will increase the traders ability to make money. But to flatten a market faster than a transporter you need obscene amounts of isk. Amounts of isk that less than 1000 accounts have according to Oveur. And if someone has that kind of isk, he could flatten it, freighter or not.
Well, as players had those amounts of ISK before freighters were released, and as the market wasn't flattened before frieghters arrived, I would postulate that freighters are a cause.
If it had been possible before freighters it would have been done
I know of several very profitable markets that flatten during the day. So that postulate is downright wrong. It IS possible and it IS being done. Day after day. The market can't be that good if it isn't getting floored. And should it not be floored but flattened a bit, well then it apparently wasn't profitable enough for the ones feeling left out now.
And as far as I know freighters can't buy you anything. You gotta have the isk. So if the isk isn't there as you postulate it hasn't been, then a freighter won't change a bit.
And lets say that close to 1000 accounts has over a billion isk. Thats not very many, once we weed out the ones that are corp wallets and and the ones that are not traders and the ones that can afford a freighter and still have trading isk.
That leaves us with a select few that can floor a market faster than a transport trader. And thats even assuming that a billion is enough to floor the market, which I would venture it is not in many cases. If he is to do it with a freighter he still gotta have the isk.
And apparently someone DID have the isk to do it, if we are to believe the OP?
And the market can't be destroyed. The price movements won't change, so the only thing that can change is the number of players on certain goods. Or perhaps even increase buy order competition? Imagine that...
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UglyBugly
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Posted - 2005.08.05 00:12:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Nyxus
Here is how NPC trading works for those who comment without ever doing it or any firsthand knowledge .
Equally represented on both sides, thank you.
Show me ANY trade route that can be traded hundred times in a day by a freighter or even an indy without flattening, and I'll hand you 100 mil right there. And If he can fly back and forth hundreds of times each day, then where is it you can't get into that market?
He cant have bought for hundreds of 2,7 billion loads before starting. Or tens for that matter. So somewhere in there must be holes where other traders can enter.
Avon, Olivin and Nyxus for that matter:
Why didnt this guys flatten the market before and ship it in indys, if he had the isk and it was so profitable?
He wouldnt have to worry about shipping speed if he was the sole player on the market.
I would REALLY like to hear your thoughts on this.
Btw: Funny as you claim to have authority on something where you by your own claim is being outmaneuvered.
And as far as noobs go: The trade routes noobs can touch with their wallets, serious traders wouldnt touch. Plenty of goods and opportunities.
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UglyBugly
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Posted - 2005.08.05 09:20:00 -
[8]
The ones saying that this will hurt newbie traders have clearly no idea or overview over the market.
There are several routes and goods that will garner the not so wealthy pilot a decent return on his isk - that the freighter pilot would never touch due to volume issues and/or system sec status.
The routes people talk about here could never be touched and SHOULD never be touched by a newbie, as the investment would be to great compared to return. There are low isk routes out there giving WAY better return.
BTW:
Market data for the Roes show a doubling of the volume handled over the last week. (Granted, market data is still not that trustworthy, but it should be comparable)
That will hardly ruin eves economy.
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UglyBugly
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Posted - 2005.08.05 09:53:00 -
[9]
The roes are a special case too, btw. As the volume for sale is immense.
There are not many routes out there like that, if any. Most others popular routes would flatten before the floor of the freighter was even filled.
I predict that goods not previously handled due to volume issues will get freighter visits.
Al those newbie problems predicted are pure nonsense. There are TONS of routes out there for the low isk trader. It boggles my mind how anyone can claim that they will be destroyed.
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UglyBugly
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Posted - 2005.08.05 10:02:00 -
[10]
For your information, the origin of the debated good is in low sec.
So if he afk's it I am pretty sure someone will take interest in that freighter. Someone trodding the dark path of Eve life.
So lets kill that one.
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UglyBugly
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Posted - 2005.08.05 10:14:00 -
[11]
Edited by: UglyBugly on 05/08/2005 10:16:01
I will not argue against that some routes could need a tweaking of volume vs. profit pr. unit vs. risk.
To say that it is all perfect would insane.
But I think one very specific example is taken by envious wannabe freighter owners to an extreme that is totally unnecessary. An extreme backed up by several claims that demonstrates a very limited knowledge about the possibilities on the market.
As one making lots of isk NPC trading I am even willing to debate the existance of the market at all.
But that is not the debate here.
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