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dexington
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
637
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Posted - 2013.03.24 12:01:00 -
[181] - Quote
Seraph Castillon wrote:I believe I'm on topic with this:
Can you really probe so fast that you can do system after system looking for a DED 4/10 and eliminating the others? Can you put up a filter for these sites like you can with ships?
Yes and no, and signatures have a static signal strength, so with one scan you can determine what sites possible can be in the system.
You can rule out eg. a 4/10 fs no signatures match the signal strength you are looking for, but sites does not always have unique signal strength value, which means you can't always be sure a site that match a 4/10 signal really is a 4/10 site before you scan it down. I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous. |
dexington
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
637
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Posted - 2013.03.24 12:24:00 -
[182] - Quote
Makavelia wrote:I guess the problem will always be ''player owned market''.
It's not really the market that is the problem, but the faction and deadspace items are not build by players. Supply and demand don't work in the same way for faction and ded items, as almost every other item in the game that has it's price determine by the value of trit and moongoo.
I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous. |
Makavelia
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
29
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Posted - 2013.03.24 13:05:00 -
[183] - Quote
dexington wrote:Makavelia wrote:I guess the problem will always be ''player owned market''. It's not really the market that is the problem, but the faction and deadspace items are not build by players. Supply and demand don't work in the same way for faction and ded items, as almost every other item in the game that has it's price determine by the value of trit and moongoo.
I think you are giving to much credit to what is just a game of maths, and prob.
I don't know the details but all loot drop has to be on some kind of % basis. Like say as an example you have 5% chance to drop a c-type invul per 4/10.
Theirs no shortedge of players looking for sites, again a complete example but lets say the eve player base is running 100 4/10 sites per hour. With 100 chances to get a item at 5% i'd say things become a little less ''rng'' on the whole. Although ofc, to a single player.. its rng as hell. By alll rights you should get 1 drop in those 100 sites. Ofc you may not get 1.. but on the other hand you may get 2, within another 100 batch.
It's not as on demand as production but it's certainly reliable enolugh across a player base that a demand/production type margin can be placed
If you look now, with how popular cherry 4/10 is.. the prices of shield/invuls are dropping. That's simply becuase theirs much more of the sites being done and the % is evening out much greater.
Ontop of that, the market these mods are catoring for is mostly pve players. Pve players don't typically lose ships much, and if they do (say incursion or L4 missions) and assuming not destroyed, the mods are picked up by the player/frineds and returned. that means after awhile, like production.. demand for the mods is not met by how many are being ''produced''.
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dexington
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
637
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Posted - 2013.03.24 14:38:00 -
[184] - Quote
Makavelia wrote:If you look now, with how popular cherry 4/10 is.. the prices of shield/invuls are dropping. That's simply becuase theirs much more of the sites being done and the % is evening out much greater.
The volume of pithum c-type shield boosters on the market has been between 200 when low and 280 when high for a long time, there is nothing that indicates that the number will sky rocket if more people start doing exploration. The numbers has previously been as high as it is now, but a prolonged drop in volume has happened between the two peeks.
The volume does not continue to increase, which probably has to do with there being a limit to how many modules are generated pr. day.
Makavelia wrote:Ontop of that, the market these mods are catoring for is mostly pve players. Pve players don't typically lose ships much, and if they do (say incursion or L4 missions) and assuming not destroyed, the mods are picked up by the player/frineds and returned. that means after awhile, like production.. demand for the mods is not met by how many are being ''produced''.
You might not have fleet doctrines, outside capitals, what use faction or deadspace modules, but a lot of small gang and solo pvp'ers use expensive ships and modules. I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous. |
Lenier Chenal
Anomalous Existence Existential Anxiety
25
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Posted - 2013.03.24 20:47:00 -
[185] - Quote
Anyone that wants to ban T3s from HS: massive sperglord
Get hazed high-sec pubbie, not gonna happen |
CaptainTr1cky
Tri Corp Solutions Invictus Void
7
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Posted - 2013.03.25 14:29:00 -
[186] - Quote
i think the new expansion will fix this so , lets w8 and see |
Zircon Dasher
166
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Posted - 2013.03.25 23:54:00 -
[187] - Quote
CaptainTr1cky wrote:i think the new expansion will fix this so , lets w8 and see
OOOOooooh...... did you see the super-sekrit-patch notes? Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
Baggo Hammers
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.03.26 00:05:00 -
[188] - Quote
2D probing and every can has a prize! |
Thorian Omanid
Viziam Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2013.03.26 03:45:00 -
[189] - Quote
Sounds like what is needed is instanced DED sites. If you find the site you get to keep it.Any on else tries to hop in and they get a new instance.
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St Mio
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1196
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Posted - 2013.03.26 04:28:00 -
[190] - Quote
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Makavelia
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
29
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Posted - 2013.03.26 11:32:00 -
[191] - Quote
Thorian Omanid wrote:
Sounds like what is needed is instanced DED sites. If you find the site you get to keep it.Any on else tries to hop in and they get a new instance.
No thats just wrong ;p.
The sig of a site should be reduced to a low stregth single band when a player enters it. This is a indication to others (who take the time to understand all this) due to sig strength, and they can save time and move on. If they have strong scan strength they can ofc choose to try and steal the plex. That would ofc mean the likes of T3 and cov ops alts. As much as i hate T3 that's what they are for, makes sence they keep some advantedge.
However, the ship or wrecks should be easier scanned down with combat probes. If a player wants to dedicate time to stealing other peoples plexes then that should be an unfortunate option.
IMO!. |
Kodama Ikari
Concordiat Spaceship Samurai
40
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Posted - 2013.03.26 13:55:00 -
[192] - Quote
Thorian Omanid wrote:
Sounds like what is needed is instanced DED sites. If you find the site you get to keep it.Any on else tries to hop in and they get a new instance.
this is a joke, right?
Lenier Chenal wrote:Anyone that wants to ban T3s from HS: massive sperglord Get hazed high-sec pubbie, not gonna happen
but.. but.. the hisec pubbies are the ones flying t3's! Some first-hand PI tips |
dexington
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
638
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Posted - 2013.03.26 14:35:00 -
[193] - Quote
Thorian Omanid wrote:Sounds like what is needed is instanced DED sites. If you find the site you get to keep it.Any on else tries to hop in and they get a new instance.
I would like it better if they made the hi-sec 4/10 free fire zones without concord protection. I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous. |
Zircon Dasher
168
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Posted - 2013.03.26 14:49:00 -
[194] - Quote
dexington wrote:Thorian Omanid wrote:Sounds like what is needed is instanced DED sites. If you find the site you get to keep it.Any on else tries to hop in and they get a new instance. I would like it better if they made the hi-sec 4/10 free fire zones without concord protection.
How great would it be to blap everything that moves in highsec plexes while waiting for srs stuff to happen on your main! No more dealing with silly flags or sec loss \o/!
Make this happen NOW plx! Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
Makavelia
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
29
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 09:04:00 -
[195] - Quote
Zircon Dasher wrote:dexington wrote:Thorian Omanid wrote:Sounds like what is needed is instanced DED sites. If you find the site you get to keep it.Any on else tries to hop in and they get a new instance. I would like it better if they made the hi-sec 4/10 free fire zones without concord protection. How great would it be to blap everything that moves in highsec plexes while waiting for srs stuff to happen on your main! No more dealing with silly flags or sec loss \o/! Make this happen NOW plx!
As long as you get concorded for killing somebody in a low/nul sec plex, sure. |
St Mio
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1199
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 09:23:00 -
[196] - Quote
People who have shot a player in the last 30 days should have their ships automatically explode if they enter a PVE site anywhere in game. The killmail should then be automatically attributed to the closest player who hasn't shot a player in the last 30 days. This feature suggestion is as serious as the contracts in Jita local are legit. |
Annunaki soldier
Segmentum Solar Nulli Legio
67
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 09:40:00 -
[197] - Quote
St Mio wrote:People who have shot a player in the last 30 days should have their ships automatically explode if they enter a PVE site anywhere in game. The killmail should then be automatically attributed to the closest player who hasn't shot a player in the last 30 days. This feature suggestion is as serious as the contracts in Jita local are legit.
your suggestion seems legit. Also any1 that will change an order for 0.1 isk should get all orders removed from market into a can then moved to a c1 wormhole. Ride hard, live with passion-á |
Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
64
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 20:55:00 -
[198] - Quote
Zircon Dasher wrote:Unezka Turigahl wrote: As well as the suggestion that we need more ships that are capable of combat as well as scanning. If you mean more scanning bonused ships- for the luv of jeebus NO!
Why not?
Now that I think on it more, maybe they could remove scanning bonuses from ships all together and apply them to the probe launchers themselves (or rework the skill to give more bonus %). Just give standard probe launchers the ability to use DSPs. Then any ship can be used well in exploration. Using combat probes would still require an expanded launcher and thus be more taxing on your fitting and covops can still retain their fitting bonus for those. But searching for complexes becomes something that all ships can do relatively well. The T1 exploration frigates would still have codebreaker and analyzer bonuses, and T3s would still be very versatile so both would still be good exploration boats. But T1 cruisers and BCs would suddenly be less of a pain for newer players to use for finding sites.
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Makavelia
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
29
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Posted - 2013.03.28 21:35:00 -
[199] - Quote
Unezka Turigahl wrote:Zircon Dasher wrote:Unezka Turigahl wrote: As well as the suggestion that we need more ships that are capable of combat as well as scanning. If you mean more scanning bonused ships- for the luv of jeebus NO! Why not? Now that I think on it more, maybe they could remove scanning bonuses from ships all together and apply them to the probe launchers themselves (or rework the skill to give more bonus %). Just give standard probe launchers the ability to use DSPs. Then any ship can be used well in exploration. Using combat probes would still require an expanded launcher and thus be more taxing on your fitting and covops can still retain their fitting bonus for those. But searching for complexes becomes something that all ships can do relatively well. The T1 exploration frigates would still have codebreaker and analyzer bonuses, and T3s would still be very versatile so both would still be good exploration boats. But T1 cruisers and BCs would suddenly be less of a pain for newer players to use for finding sites.
''omg tengu is not the best at everything anymore.. all that SP!!!!!11!!1111111111 WASTED''
Lets contest this change and shoot astroids in jita. |
Baggo Hammers
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 22:54:00 -
[200] - Quote
Unezka Turigahl wrote:Zircon Dasher wrote:Unezka Turigahl wrote: As well as the suggestion that we need more ships that are capable of combat as well as scanning. If you mean more scanning bonused ships- for the luv of jeebus NO! Why not? Now that I think on it more, maybe they could remove scanning bonuses from ships all together and apply them to the probe launchers themselves (or rework the skill to give more bonus %). Just give standard probe launchers the ability to use DSPs. Then any ship can be used well in exploration. Using combat probes would still require an expanded launcher and thus be more taxing on your fitting and covops can still retain their fitting bonus for those. But searching for complexes becomes something that all ships can do relatively well. The T1 exploration frigates would still have codebreaker and analyzer bonuses, and T3s would still be very versatile so both would still be good exploration boats. But T1 cruisers and BCs would suddenly be less of a pain for newer players to use for finding sites.
Let's just get rid of scanning skills and have sites show as blinky circles on the solar system map. Please stop. |
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Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
64
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Posted - 2013.03.29 05:44:00 -
[201] - Quote
Yeah, allowing a Vexor to find PvE sites as easily as an Imicus is total WOW-ification of EVE. What was I thinking. |
Absolon Echerie
Gulag Industries
3
|
Posted - 2013.03.29 06:55:00 -
[202] - Quote
St Mio wrote:tl;dr I ramble that in exploration, Risk Gëá Reward
So, what do you think? [ ] Exploration is fine, Working as IntendedGäó [ ] Exploration is broken, Risk Gëá Reward [ ] High-sec exploration should be nerfed [x ] Low-sec exploration should be buffed [x ] Ban all T3 ships from high-sec exploration [ ] Nerf Deep Space Probes
or a complete ban may be too much but see it this way:
you need a ton of skills to even get a t3, and it does not reward progression if people can still do complexes that are "meant" for lower class ships.
the only problem with implementing ship restrictions would be that the t3 is still a cruiser, that is the reason it can enter a lot of low DED sites, and you don't want to ban out normal cruisers unless you rebalance the whole sites.
myself i run sites in a gila, and it has happened more then once that a Tengu comes flying in, skips all except the loot containers. now i do get it why they would not like to go into low sec with a billion ISK ship and get gate camped, but at least a t3 can easily be fit for avoiding this. try that with a gila...
to make it more attractive to go into low sec the rewards there should be upped, CCP may even redo the ship restrictions part and make some DED site specially for t3 cruisers?
edit: also you could prevent blitzing sites by having to kill ALL spawns in a pocket before you can loot. at least this will require some effort, as well as costing some change in ammo
and i like the idea of locking the first to second pocket gate. that would fix some even though it would make persistent ones wait at the gate till all is dead and just warp in with you |
Kodama Ikari
Concordiat Spaceship Samurai
48
|
Posted - 2013.03.29 19:12:00 -
[203] - Quote
Absolon Echerie wrote:you need a ton of skills to even get a t3, and it does not reward progression if people can still do complexes that are "meant" for lower class ships. the only problem with implementing ship restrictions would be that the t3 is still a cruiser, that is the reason it can enter a lot of low DED sites, and you don't want to ban out normal cruisers unless you rebalance the whole sites. myself i run sites in a gila, and it has happened more then once that a Tengu comes flying in, skips all except the loot containers. now i do get it why they would not like to go into low sec with a billion ISK ship and get gate camped, but at least a t3 can easily be fit for avoiding this. try that with a gila... to make it more attractive to go into low sec the rewards there should be upped, CCP may even redo the ship restrictions part and make some DED site specially for t3 cruisers? edit: also you could prevent blitzing sites by having to kill ALL spawns in a pocket before you can loot. at least this will require some effort, as well as costing some change in ammo and i like the idea of locking the first to second pocket gate. that would fix some even though it would make persistent ones wait at the gate till all is dead and just warp in with you
-You don't really need a ton of skills. -deadpsace gates are already capable of distinguishing a ship from its t2 variants, so keeping t3's out of highsec explo wouldn't really be difficult to implement. -if the tengu skipped all the rats and got the loot, then why weren't you doing the same before he got there? gila should have no trouble tanking rats to blitz the loot. you can always stick around and clear the rats after if you want. -variations in things being blitzable or not blitzable is a feature of complexes and missions. this isn't a bad thing, and changing it would have 0 impact on any of the issues currently facing explo. Hisec sites would take a few minutes longer, and most importantly it would lower the chance of the first person to find the plex actually getting the loot. I'm not particularly opposed to making the 4/10 specifically less blitzable, but again, I don't see it making a difference. Some first-hand PI tips |
Demica Diaz
The Scope Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2013.03.30 22:52:00 -
[204] - Quote
We will probably know more what and how they changed Exploration closer we get to next expansion. I just hope new exploration is you know..... about e x p l o r a t i o n and not instance with reward chest in the end. |
Lenier Chenal
Anomalous Existence Existential Anxiety
31
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Posted - 2013.03.30 23:05:00 -
[205] - Quote
I've seen plenty of Gilas and Ishtars blitzing 4/10s. Tech 3s will never be banned from high-sec. |
Umega
Solis Mensa
144
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 00:24:00 -
[206] - Quote
Anyone that believes exploration sites should be instanced in any way shape or form.. should biomass, and play one of the MANY MANY other games that already have such implemented.. rather than try to screw over the people that believe EVE should remain the open sandbox it is.
Exploration should have risks and competition. There should be the thought/concern of pirates, plunderers, 'vikings', people bent on a Holy Crusade to gather what they precieve as their valuables, people seeking knowledge, people seeking fame/fortune, other explorers.. did Indiana Jones have ruthless competition or no? While it was just a movie.. the idea of explorers going against each other is reality.
One aspect that caused the shitstorm that was Incarna.. is that locked door. Isolated.. people unable to walk with their peers, walk amongest the most noble of persona, to the lowest scum. Why should we push ourselves further towards never realizing our own Tatoine? By making exploration instanced.. we would have another 'locked door' thrown in front of us. More and more isolated we would become.. all for what? A repeatative grind that may, or may not grant money.
**** your Greed.. you low-life pukes that wish to close yourselves off from everyone else, just so you can do what you believe you are entitled to do, simply because you breath. I breath that same air.. and I doubt you'll use it more effectively than I. Cowards.. weak.. crying for a barrier to protect them, so they can gather wealth with no thought of Retribution.
An Odyssey is best remembered.. when it is memorable.
Changes
- No one in NPC corps can access above 2/10. Why? Competition. If you make a career out of exploring.. others with the same career path should have the option to come after you.. or atleast hire mercs to gun you down. If you want to play like a kiddie and be protected by some virtual papa-bear Concord.. you should be treated like one, and only get the kiddie sandbox.
- Adjust the difficulty of all sites. Make them harder.. to the point you may need a friend or two in cruisers to handle a 4/10. Do not compare this to Incursions.. a friend or two is hardly like trying to tackle an Incursion. Make it so it is possible to handle the lower ones solo, but at a greater risk. Don't got balls to risk a pimp ship, don't go. No one is making you.
- Make the rats attacker others that enter, more wildly. Sleeper like. This would promote lowsec anom growth.. pve tanks tend to have better surviviable abilities than pvp fit ships.. if a lone pirate or two want to try, they can try.. but at risk to them as well. Risk/reward works both ways folks.
- Add more lore to the sites. Make them more engaging for your mind.. rather than a hotkey mash fest.
- Add puzzles. Adjust them in such a way.. that a loner, trying to cherry pick boss spawns is going to have a much more difficult time to do so.
- Grant suspect flag to anyone that loots a boss spawn (or final 'treasure chest').. whether it is their wreck or not. Spare me the waaah-waah.. I almost was going to agree with someone turning exploration sites into Concord free.. but realized that isn't beneficial to greenhorns, and ultimately EVE's learning curve growth. In this way.. highsec is still highsec, but the risk/reward increases. Not too mention.. 15 minutes of suspect, is really going to slow down the cherry pickers movements. Atleast the less brash and brave ones.
If I were given an option to choose wealth or adventure.. I'll pick adventure. Especially here, in a video game where I try to escape reality. I want an adventure.. if I wanted more wealth, I'd spend more rl time accumlating rl wealth.
It's not a rant. I choose to speak like this, when I see people acting like lil bitches. They need to be addressed, and treated like the bitches they are. If you can't handle that.. oh well. When you care about the core of this game, rather than yourselves.. I'll give a damn. Till then.. suck it. |
Makavelia
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
31
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Posted - 2013.03.31 01:04:00 -
[207] - Quote
If you put the same amount of SP had in a well skilled BC you get more for your training to have a tengu/tar/gila (as far as 4/10's go). That simply means you need large amount more sp in bc just to get on par with those cruiser hulls. Even then, most bc still need faction mods to do a real blitz. Those cruiser hulls can easily do it with t2.. hell.. probably just meta with good enough sp level.
I know nobody gives a flying **** about that.. since you are all using such ships and are blinded by your own greed to get the lootz to give a **** about game balance (and sp spent). Maybe ccp will see some sence and restrict the 4/10s to the hull size it was actualy intended for.
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Tauranon
Weeesearch
139
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Posted - 2013.03.31 02:34:00 -
[208] - Quote
Makavelia wrote:If you put the same amount of SP had in a well skilled BC you get more for your training to have a tengu/tar/gila (as far as 4/10's go). That simply means you need large amount more sp in bc just to get on par with those cruiser hulls. Even then, most bc still need faction mods to do a real blitz. Those cruiser hulls can easily do it with t2.. hell.. probably just meta with good enough sp level.
I know nobody gives a flying **** about that.. since you are all using such ships and are blinded by your own greed to get the lootz to give a **** about game balance (and sp spent). Maybe ccp will see some sence and restrict the 4/10s to the hull size it was actualy intended for.
The BC is the prime PVP platform in the game, its not uncommon for me to casually build and sell 100+ hulls in a week, not even in jita. They truly don't need more rolecreep.
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St Mio
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1209
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Posted - 2013.03.31 08:59:00 -
[209] - Quote
Umega wrote:- No one in NPC corps can access above 2/10. Then they'll just make one man corps, that they'll drop out of at the first hint of being wardecced.
Why? Competition. If you make a career out of exploring.. others with the same career path should have the option to come after you.. or atleast hire mercs to gun you down. If you want to play like a kiddie and be protected by some virtual papa-bear Concord.. you should be treated like one, and only get the kiddie sandbox.
Umega wrote:- Adjust the difficulty of all sites. Make them harder.. to the point you may need a friend or two in cruisers to handle a 4/10. While I agree with making them harder... if you're going to require sites to need 2 or more ships, all this means is that people are going to dual box and bring in ship #2 when needed.
Umega wrote:- Make the rats attacker others that enter, more wildly. - Add more lore to the sites. Make them more engaging for your mind.. rather than a hotkey mash fest. Definitely agree with that
Umega wrote:- Add puzzles. Adjust them in such a way.. that a loner, trying to cherry pick boss spawns is going to have a much more difficult time to do so. GÇ+
Umega wrote:- Grant suspect flag to anyone that loots a boss spawn (or final 'treasure chest').. whether it is their wreck or not. I don't think changing high-sec exploration to make it more like low-sec exploration is such a good idea. I mean look how well that's working out for low-sec compared to high-sec. And forcing carebears to PvP doesn't work, look what happened when mission agents gave out L4s in low-sec? People will rather just log off and play something else than risk being forced into fights they have no chance of winning. |
Skira Noza
Skira Noza Tax Free Corporation
0
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 13:35:00 -
[210] - Quote
I think the exploration need some changes. For example, when I do unrated complexes there is a big chance that I will not get any valuable modules or other items. When you do complex for 4-5 times and get only one escalation it is not good. I understand that not every site can drop 1b loot, but it should drop something. I think random in exploration should be nerfed(but not eliminated!) and exploration should move to more steady income. |
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