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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
FireFoxx80
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Posted - 2005.08.11 15:59:00 -
[61]
Does the drawingboard have cake or pie on it?
Possibly one of the 23 # ex: P-TMC | USAC |
theRaptor
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Posted - 2005.08.11 16:04:00 -
[62]
Well I can see a way they can do this without ****ing old players off or screwing over noobs (who pick the wrong choices), which would be to make the quirks & drawbacks changeable at any time (I mean within a day or so), but you can choose from a pool that is only partially defined by your race/schools etc.
Most of the quirks would be generally applicable ones, like cap bonuses, general optimal increase etc. But there could be racial versions that had a higher bonus but a drawback as well. Say 10% more hybird optimal but 10% lower tracking etc.
That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die. -- Ancient "Dirt" Religious figure. |
Ardor
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Posted - 2005.08.11 16:16:00 -
[63]
Much more than most of the other games Eve is a game of making decisions and be rewarded or get a penalty because of this decisions you've made. Ignoring balance issues known as 'flavour of the month', I very much dislike the idea of implemeting rewards/penalties 2.5 years after you've made a decision.
I guess less people will be happy about a 5% blueprint copy speed because they've started as a scientist compared to people who get a 5% damage bonus because they've started as a fighter. I know this examples are exaggerated...
As a roleplayer I was very much for more diversity between the races during beta. I was thinking about jumpgate fees for foreign races and so on. The power of the ethnic relation skill was the biggest mistake CCP had done from my point of view.
Today, 2.5 years after launch, we see 99% of the players don't care what race they've chosen and which race build the ship they fly. Most people only care about attributes of their ship and char (and about a bonus from certain schools in future?). I think now it is a bad idea to 'enforce' a Caldari, who had chosen to fly amarrian ships 2 years ago, to fly Caldari ships because he suddenly gets a +5% kinetic missile bonus from the tooth fairy.
If CCP now wants to implement more diversity 2.5 years after launch then I do believe they can do it only based on standings. I do lots of missions but I see good reasons not to implement penalties/rewards because of standings. Don't make eve into a mission grinding game.
On the other hand I have to think about the Imperial Apocalypse which was won by a Minmatar in a lottery. 'Only those in high favor with the Emperor could hope to earn the reward of commanding ... the Apocalypse'. Sure...
I am sorry that I can only criticize instead of offering a possible solution... I promise to think about it because I would like to see more diversity but this must be fair for everyone.
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Soren
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Posted - 2005.08.11 16:19:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Trader Klyde Oveur, If the "racial" bonus was taken further than the "Drawingboard", would you guys also consider something to appease the older players, like maybe a one-time attribute/school reallocation?
Say we log in and get a pop-up window asking if we want to shuffle the points around that we allocated during character creation? And maybe the choice to relocate our starting school?
As to the racial bonus's, I'll reserve any comments on them until the ideas are further down the pipe towards development.
read what a i quoted 7 posts up... _________________________________________________________
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Earthan
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Posted - 2005.08.11 16:23:00 -
[65]
I agree tottaly Ardor.
Also neglecting this pain for old characters, i dont like this idea.
I meanits to restraining, limiting freedom of choice.It will make the Eve universe less diverse if anything.
And dont tell me 5 % is little, its what nearly 2 levels of advanced skill adds to gun dmg.
Stars, stars like dust, all around me.... |
Rafein
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Posted - 2005.08.11 16:34:00 -
[66]
The only thing I think is they should allow all current players to choose which school to sign up with.
Since these bonuses were not around for all current characters, they should not be just given a specific bonus, they should be able to enlist in the school of their choosing if/when it is released.
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Ithildin
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Posted - 2005.08.11 16:41:00 -
[67]
Yay! I'm Intaki combat pilot. I created my char for mining and production and he went to mining school at creation (changed pace 4-5 months into game and have been training gunnery/SSC since with minimal perc/will). If they decide to put this in game, they'd better allow me to choose the Gallentean (or more preferably Intaki Syndicate) bloodline and bonus and give me the Fed Navy school bonus. --
Mercenary Coaltion has a policy of not shooting neutral, honest, corporations. That is what sets us apart. |
Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2005.08.11 16:48:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Aitrus Edited by: Aitrus on 11/08/2005 15:08:17
Originally by: Oveur
"Character creation can use a good overhaul and more user friendly. Make it simpler and help prevent people from making bad characters, like 15 in Charisma."
Poeple making 'bad' characters like 15 charisma isn't the problem.
The fact that having a 15 charisma is bad is the problem.
Indeed, 14 charisma here. Oveur I find your lack of vision disturbing.
[23] |
Daniel Jackson
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Posted - 2005.08.11 17:22:00 -
[69]
atleast im caldari deducated meaniong that ill have the bonus and iut be good with me :)
Caldari will once again rise above the Gallente and take back Caldari Prime! Image done by Denrace |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.08.11 17:29:00 -
[70]
"atleast im caldari deducated meaniong that ill have the bonus and iut be good with me :)"
... oh gods; am i the only one who got the mental image of recruitment poster of State War Academy with DJ and "im caldari deducated" on it? >~<;;;
(at least i had chicken....
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Earthan
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Posted - 2005.08.11 17:34:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Ithildin Yay! I'm Intaki combat pilot. I created my char for mining and production and he went to mining school at creation (changed pace 4-5 months into game and have been training gunnery/SSC since with minimal perc/will). If they decide to put this in game, they'd better allow me to choose the Gallentean (or more preferably Intaki Syndicate) bloodline and bonus and give me the Fed Navy school bonus.
Same here
the changes of all combat related kills to percp hits enough he?:) Also lack of advanced engeneering and introduction of plenty new percp based combat adv skills...
When we created characters percp wasnt half as useful , also engeneering skills well important for combat and pure comabt skill wasnt that many more...
Stars, stars like dust, all around me.... |
Failin Zhar
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Posted - 2005.08.11 18:08:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Aitrus People making "bad" characters like 15 charisma isn't the problem.
The fact that having a 15 charisma is bad is the problem.
My thoughts exactly. I was THIS close *shows with two fingers* to go the charisma way and make a trader. Glad I didn't. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
Darlan Flame
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Posted - 2005.08.11 20:29:00 -
[73]
With the ability to switch your school or ancestory at will, this idea changes from bad to good. As long as nobody gets tied in by the choices they make at the begining of the game, this is a fine idea well worth looking into.
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.08.11 20:59:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Meridius on 11/08/2005 21:01:19
Originally by: Oveur
"Character creation can use a good overhaul and more user friendly. Make it simpler and help prevent people from making bad characters, like 15 in Charisma."
[IMO]
It should be on the top of CCP's priority list. It is honestly the worst designed system in EVE.
There is a basic logical error in forcing your player base to make the most important career based decision on the first day of playing.
What if you have a player that thinks he's going to want to be a miner/industrialist only to realize (at a much later date) that he really wants to get into PVP.
He will be forever penalized.
If you want to penalize your players that way, thats your call. It's completely and utterly flawed and is in desperate need for a rehaul.
I don't mean rehaul as in making up some new charisma skills, i'm talking attribute reassigning.
Please look into this Oveur
[/IMO]
________________________________________________________
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Aitrus
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Posted - 2005.08.12 01:07:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Meridius Edited by: Meridius on 11/08/2005 21:01:19
Originally by: Oveur
"Character creation can use a good overhaul and more user friendly. Make it simpler and help prevent people from making bad characters, like 15 in Charisma."
[IMO]
It should be on the top of CCP's priority list. It is honestly the worst designed system in EVE.
There is a basic logical error in forcing your player base to make the most important career based decision on the first day of playing.
What if you have a player that thinks he's going to want to be a miner/industrialist only to realize (at a much later date) that he really wants to get into PVP.
He will be forever penalized.
If you want to penalize your players that way, thats your call. It's completely and utterly flawed and is in desperate need for a rehaul.
I don't mean rehaul as in making up some new charisma skills, i'm talking attribute reassigning.
Please look into this Oveur
[/IMO]
The ironic thing, is if you're going to be PVP or industrialist, you will still want nearly the same attribute priorities...
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Letouk Mernel
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Posted - 2005.08.12 01:54:00 -
[76]
Old players have already created their characters, and thus have no control over what bonus they'll get, so they'll mostly get annoyed at this.
Newbies, great for them, but they're already overwhelmed by the zillions of things they have to choose, and most don't even understand the purpose of attributes, skills, whatever, when they create their character, so good luck adding yet another thing they don't understand but must choose correctly.
All in all a bad choice for everyone.
Are you looking for "replay value" or something? You think we should shelve old characters to start new ones? WTF is the benefit of that? 5% gunnery? ROFL.
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Nikolai Nuvolari
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Posted - 2005.08.12 02:28:00 -
[77]
NO CALDARI EW BONUS! PLEEEASE!!! ___________________________________________ ^^^***---All things serve the Beam---***^^^ GDBT is recruiting! |
Nyxus
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Posted - 2005.08.12 02:31:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Nyxus on 12/08/2005 02:34:33
Originally by: Meridius Edited by: Meridius on 11/08/2005 [IMO]
It should be on the top of CCP's priority list. It is honestly the worst designed system in EVE.
There is a basic logical error in forcing your player base to make the most important career based decision on the first day of playing.
What if you have a player that thinks he's going to want to be a miner/industrialist only to realize (at a much later date) that he really wants to get into PVP.
He will be forever penalized.
If you want to penalize your players that way, thats your call. It's completely and utterly flawed and is in desperate need for a rehaul.
I don't mean rehaul as in making up some new charisma skills, i'm talking attribute reassigning.
Please look into this Oveur
[/IMO]
Listen to Meridius. This is the plain truth, and a HUGE amount of the playerbase would welcome these changes if we could just get a onetime reassignment. I have regreted being forced to make the most important character decisions on the day of least knowledge since I started. And I am STILL paying for those poor decisions.
I just thank goodness that all those years of AD&D taught me how useless Charisma was.
Nyxus
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Magnus Thermopyle
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Posted - 2005.08.12 14:58:00 -
[79]
I think its a good idea, if done correctly. We need a few things to separate one 20mil player for another 20mil player.
But the background choice has to be a NEW one, so that everyone, both new and old, can choose it.
It would also be fun if its more interesting things than just things like +5 in turrets damage. Maybe new skill-like abilities that can ONLY be gained through the background choise you make.
Dont assume the worst, I am sure the devs know what they are doing.
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Gungankllr
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Posted - 2005.08.12 15:21:00 -
[80]
I think if there is a bloodline bonus it should reflect the types of ships or modules that the specific race flies or uses.
Sure, maybe you're an amarrian that loves to fly Tempests, doesn't mean you should be special and get some custom bonus.
if you're Caldari, you should get bonuses along the lines of Caldari ships and modules.
Same for all the races.
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.08.12 16:10:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Aitrus
The ironic thing, is if you're going to be PVP or industrialist, you will still want nearly the same attribute priorities...
Erm, i'm pretty sure industrialists don't need heaps of perception/wp. They need lots of int/mem no? ________________________________________________________
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pardux
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Posted - 2005.08.12 16:15:00 -
[82]
i <3 bloodline/race bonuses
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Hllaxiu
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Posted - 2005.08.12 16:18:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Meridius Erm, i'm pretty sure industrialists don't need heaps of perception/wp. They need lots of int/mem no?
Well, you still need good perception/wp for stuff like say freighters, iteron mk5s, large mining barge, etc. So just don't end up with 12 charisma and 3 perception as an industrialist...
Proud member of Elite Academy. |
Rafein
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Posted - 2005.08.12 16:55:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Meridius
Erm, i'm pretty sure industrialists don't need heaps of perception/wp. They need lots of int/mem no?
No, but a PvPer is going to need Electronics, Engineering, Mechanic, Navigation, Drone and learning skills. All of which are Primary Int or memory, many of which are both Int/Memory
And I'm against allowing people to change attributes as they feel like it. It would create WAY to much min/maxing. Start a character with high Int/Memory, train the learning skill, the above PvP related Int/Memory skills, then just swith to Perception/willpower, and train gunnery, ships skills? Kinda defeats the purpose of character creation, and removes any difference between characters.
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.08.12 17:26:00 -
[85]
Easier char creation... good for noobs or anyone making a research/manufacture/carebear alt or w/e i guess.
School medals sounds cool. I like that idea. So long as i can go to the amarr/caldari/minm military/whatever school and get the same medal as a native pilot (provided im not KOS to that faction ofc) i dont see why they cant be (small) combat bonuses for the military schools, or something.
As far attribute reallocation... eehh isnt there that skill under science:
Genetic Engineering
The science of interfacing biological and machine components. Allows the use of DNA mutators.
..yeah. ofc, as its been remarked... how to implement it to allow ppl to change themselves a little while preventing (too much) min/maxing?
Limited numbers of genomodifications x person? Maybe increases by training the skill (1-5)? One modification every m sp? Only 1 modification x unit of time (once a month)? dunno... intersting though.
Even tho im a horrible char who does nearly everything, i wouldnt mind shaving some charisma off for some will/perc. -------------
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DrunkenOne
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Posted - 2005.08.12 17:32:00 -
[86]
Edited by: DrunkenOne on 12/08/2005 17:34:03
Originally by: j0sephine Perhaps it could be done in similar manner "perks" worked in Fallout? You could add a few small advantages/disadvantages to your character that wouldn't necessarily be hardcoded into bloodline/skill... but mostly up to the player choosing them.
("Bloody Mess" ftw... >>;
best game ever btw. Well Fallout 2 > 1 anyways. Go full sniper with a gauss rifle and have high charisma so you can have Sulik w/ powerfist or electric chainsaw + vic w/ gauss rifle + marcus w/ modified plasma rifle 4tw.
One time I had my whole party just use sledgehammers. It was probably the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen. **** eve I'm going to play fallout 2 again cya. Critics rave: "Drunk you suck" |
Kyle Caldrel
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Posted - 2005.08.12 17:35:00 -
[87]
Originally by: DrunkenOne Edited by: DrunkenOne on 12/08/2005 17:34:03
Originally by: j0sephine Perhaps it could be done in similar manner "perks" worked in Fallout? You could add a few small advantages/disadvantages to your character that wouldn't necessarily be hardcoded into bloodline/skill... but mostly up to the player choosing them.
("Bloody Mess" ftw... >>;
best game ever btw. Well Fallout 2 > 1 anyways. Go full sniper with a gauss rifle and have high charisma so you can have Sulik w/ powerfist or electric chainsaw + vic w/ gauss rifle + marcus w/ modified plasma rifle 4tw.
One time I had my whole party just use sledgehammers. It was probably the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen. **** eve I'm going to play fallout 2 again cya.
I always went melee sytle on ppl, punchin holes in them.
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Wrayeth
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Posted - 2005.08.12 17:57:00 -
[88]
Edited by: Wrayeth on 12/08/2005 17:57:49 I'm opposed to this idea as well. I regularly fly both caldari and minmatar ships in PvP, and don't want to be relegated to second-rate status every time I fly a minmatar ship as opposed to caldari. (Worse, I expect the caldari bonus to be something like railgun range, which doesn't help my raven one bit, or kinetic missile damage, which is worthless because EVERYONE tanks kinetic.)
That's not even mentioning the fact that I would be a second-rate pilot when flying a 'geddon or other amarr ship - and I've discovered I don't much enjoy amarr ships to begin with...and it'll be even worse if the racial bonus is implemented. Even more of a waste of skillpoints.
Oh, and I'm one of those characters with a ridiculous willpower - 4 points higher than my next highest attribute if I ever bother to finish training on it. Too bad it doesn't have that much of an effect on skill training time...
-Wrayeth |
DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2005.08.12 18:29:00 -
[89]
I don't think an overhaul of the system is going to change much for anyone thats played in the last two years. Even if you make some nice "attribute" templates, new players will still have free choice of distributing their points and making a bad call. Or a good choice at the time can turn into a bad one as they find the profession they like most. And current players will still be "screwed".
In my opinion it shouldn't be possible to create a character and rely on two attributes 100% of the time, which is the case with labrat characters whoring int/mem. Dr Caymus with 40mil+ skillpoints comes to mind. Most pvpers that have played since retail are very lucky to have even 70% of that, which is fine. I'm simply pointing out a flaw in the skill training itself. Someone who had high charisma will never have used it in a pvp character up until the new leadership skills were released. Thats a lot of training time lost, and hopefully CCP will continue to release new skill paths/trees for each profession that take each attribute into account.
That way, no matter what your stats are, you can excel in one area of your profession always. Then people couldn't whine because they made the choice themselves. For example, I'd like to see some char, perc, and wp skill trees added for researchers. Tech 3 should involve cosmos heavily, which might need science ships to scan (perc/will), which would rely on charisma skills for npc interaction to get there in the first place.
Combat characters right now have two main skill trees, gunnery and spaceship.. This can make up to 75% of your total skillpoints using only two attributes. In the last patch CCP introduced drone specialization skills which take memory as primary, and leadership which need charisma as primary. I'd like to see a continuation of this and maybe tech 2 battleships requiring the flagships skill. All those people with stupidly high perc/willpower will not continue to dominate in all things pvp related
But if someone thinks they are still screwed, theres always boosters and dna mutators. _____________________________________ Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
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Syrec
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Posted - 2005.08.12 18:39:00 -
[90]
The bonus' will matter most in PVP.
I'm gallente -> intaki -> federal navy academy. I assume it would be something like +1 drone, ???, +5% hybrid turret
I'm squirming at the idea though, because Intaki are high charisma (useless attribute that won't be fixed) and I definitely don't want a +5% to some charisma skill.
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