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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
DrClit
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
2
   |
Posted - 2013.04.10 10:12:00 -
[1] - Quote
I would much prefer a null sec with no sov or territory but with clusters of space that have different worth.
Having lived in null sec for years, with the communication channels and intel channels used in and out of the game null sec is a fairly manageable risk. Risk that you can not control is when you can not manage what is around you and since there is more chance of the unexpected happening in high sec that is why for me i believe high sec has more risk. I can list but i'm not going to.
This argument needs to be decided by first of all deciding what the vision of null sec should be. I think its pretty aragont of people to say the reason why null sec is stagnant is becuase most of the people that play eve find it more lucrative to play in high sec.
I play in high sec becuase its easier to get into a ship and go do what i enjoy the most which is playing the game with a bunch of internet nerds. I think the answer has to be to have islands of high sec with the core of null sec (my vision of null sec is one without sovs) creating islands creates markets and hubs for the null sec dwellers to visit.
If you think this is complete rubbish - answer me this, why is it that one of the most active systems in eve is the Torrinos to EC- gate? People do not go to null sec to mine and trade and take part in "Industry" they go to kill stuff. This is what alliances expect of you since most of the industry is hauled from jita. the quicker the community realise that industry in null sec is a rare activity the quicker we can put to bed this bull argument about "risk versus reward". |
DrClit
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 10:26:00 -
[2] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:DrClit wrote:I would much prefer a null sec with no sov or territory but with clusters of space that have different worth. Having lived in null sec for years, with the communication channels and intel channels used in and out of the game null sec is a fairly manageable risk. Risk that you can not control is when you can not manage what is around you and since there is more chance of the unexpected happening in high sec that is why for me i believe high sec has more risk. I can list but i'm not going to. This argument needs to be decided by first of all deciding what the vision of null sec should be. I think its pretty aragont of people to say the reason why null sec is stagnant is becuase most of the people that play eve find it more lucrative to play in high sec. I play in high sec becuase its easier to get into a ship and go do what i enjoy the most which is playing the game with a bunch of internet nerds. I think the answer has to be to have islands of high sec with the core of null sec (my vision of null sec is one without sovs) creating islands creates markets and hubs for the null sec dwellers to visit. If you think this is complete rubbish - answer me this, why is it that one of the most active systems in eve is the Torrinos to EC- gate? People do not go to null sec to mine and trade and take part in "Industry" they go to kill stuff. This is what alliances expect of you since most of the industry is hauled from jita. the quicker the community realise that industry in null sec is a rare activity the quicker we can put to bed this bull argument about "risk versus reward". Quote:If anyone has any business acumen you will understand that business will not venture into areas with high risk if you were clever you would promote null sec as being an incredibly safe are to live and that you can do your stuff in peace. Afterall intel channels are blinking as soon as someone is anywhere near your area which has nothing to do with sov. Industry is rare in null because there are only about 3% as many manufacturing slots in sov 0.0 as there are in hi-sec. Regardless of whether players would like to do their manufacturing in their own space, they can't. Your argument is like arguing against giving food to starving people because they don't eat much.
Build a pos then douche. Your argument is like arguing against starving people dont eat much food anyway so why give them any to begin with. |
DrClit
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 10:37:00 -
[3] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:Dave Stark wrote:...it could be argued that null is actually worth more isk/hour but then there's the logistical costs, the interruption of neutrals in local, all that jazz.... It you know what you are doing in Highsec, the risk of attack from anything but small NPCs is very small. I am not sure the same can be said about 0.0.  exactly, the fact that high sec doesn't have such interruptions means even with rorqual bonuses null sec mining is unlikely to be more profitable even if it can be argued that it is on paper.
The risk of attack is much higher in high sec just becuase the chance of the unexpected happening is much higher than living in null sec. OK you have awoxers but thats only the same as high sec. when there is an abundance of players thats when the risk is at the highest, you don't get anywhere near the concentration of people in one system like you get in high sec.
If you get caught in a belt in null sec thats your own fault for not watching intel, not being on comms, not being in a fleet, being part of an alliance that doesn't have a roaming defence fleet and not being aligned to warp to a safe point.
i'll let you in on a little secret, i nearly got ganked in high sec with nearly 4bil inthe hull of my freighter. High sec ganking is happening more often and their are corporations set up for this type of game play, |
DrClit
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 10:50:00 -
[4] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:DrClit wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:Dave Stark wrote:...it could be argued that null is actually worth more isk/hour but then there's the logistical costs, the interruption of neutrals in local, all that jazz.... It you know what you are doing in Highsec, the risk of attack from anything but small NPCs is very small. I am not sure the same can be said about 0.0. exactly, the fact that high sec doesn't have such interruptions means even with rorqual bonuses null sec mining is unlikely to be more profitable even if it can be argued that it is on paper. The risk of attack is much higher in high sec just becuase the chance of the unexpected happening is much higher than living in null sec. OK you have awoxers but thats only the same as high sec. when there is an abundance of players thats when the risk is at the highest, you don't get anywhere near the concentration of people in one system like you get in high sec. If you get caught in a belt in null sec thats your own fault for not watching intel, not being on comms, not being in a fleet, being part of an alliance that doesn't have a roaming defence fleet and not being aligned to warp to a safe point. i'll let you in on a little secret, i nearly got ganked in high sec with 4bil in my cargo hold high sec ganking is happening more often and their are corporations set up for this type of game play, if you get caught in null sec you were either very unlucky being bumped off the station or incredibly stupid, in most case its the latter. i'll let you in on a secret; you don't have to be attacked to have your mining disrupted in null sec like you do in high sec.
I'm sorry - i thought playing null sec was all about playing as a team to build ecosystems, where people worked together to maintain security so that the one AFK cloaky doesnt disrupt your game play, so if this does happen there are things in place so that you can carry your operation on? I think what you are trying to do is sugar coat the fact that just becuase you live in null sec gives you the right to earn more isk, just because. |
DrClit
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 11:12:00 -
[5] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:
if you really did think, perhaps you would have noticed i'm in an npc corp. hence, i don't live in null.
the very fact that mining the ores in null sec requires more training time is the reason null sec ores should be worth more, not just because they're in null.
just like the same way level 4 missions are worth more than level 1 missions because you have to spend more time training to fly things capable of dealing with the missions.
Thats complete rubbish you can mine all types of ore with level 1 skills. missioning is completely different since you are right to complete the hard missions solo you need higher skills. I remember the days of sitting mining Arkonor in a hulk rigged up for max yield per cycle and did it fairly effectively with bare mining skills.
You said it right there - why should someone in high sec suffer when they spent the same amount of time training mining skills to maximise their isk/hour then someone who does it in null sec? They've spent the same amount of time training so deserves to be rewarded.
Quote:During my seven weeks of mining in highsec, I never got attack. That was last Oct/Nov, so thing may have changed drastically, but I have my doubts. A max yield Procurer with a tank has little chance of being attacked, if you use some OPSEC. Even if you did lose one, it can easily be replace with two hours of mining.
I can't speak for other areas... and not even with that much experience..., but in CVA space you get reds a lot. Plus questionable neutrals. I don't mine there, but I do have a toon there.
Im not sure what point you are making here? If you read my comments i was talking about the concentration of players and the risk of the unexpected happening is much greater in high sec than in null sec where the concetration of players is much less. |
DrClit
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 11:37:00 -
[6] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:DrClit wrote:Dave Stark wrote:
if you really did think, perhaps you would have noticed i'm in an npc corp. hence, i don't live in null.
the very fact that mining the ores in null sec requires more training time is the reason null sec ores should be worth more, not just because they're in null.
just like the same way level 4 missions are worth more than level 1 missions because you have to spend more time training to fly things capable of dealing with the missions.
Thats complete rubbish you can mine all types of ore with level 1 skills. missioning is completely different since you are right to complete the hard missions solo you need higher skills. I remember the days of sitting mining Arkonor in a hulk rigged up for max yield per cycle and did it fairly effectively with bare mining skills. You said it right there - why should someone in high sec suffer when they spent the same amount of time training mining skills to maximise their isk/hour then someone who does it in null sec? They've spent the same amount of time training so deserves to be rewarded. and you can fly a raven with nothing but caldari battleship II or something. how is missioning different? need higher skills for harder missions, just like you need higher skills to mine, and refine rarer (or, "harder") ores. but they haven't spent the same amount of time training skills. veldspar processing, for example, is a much faster train than things like arkonor processing. why shouldn't you be rewarded for spending the extra time training arkonor instead of veldspar?
Read my post again and try to make sense of it. People who spend the time training to make their isk/hour more efficient should be rewarded i say that quite clearly. |
DrClit
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 11:42:00 -
[7] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:DrClit wrote:Dave Stark wrote:DrClit wrote:Dave Stark wrote:
if you really did think, perhaps you would have noticed i'm in an npc corp. hence, i don't live in null.
the very fact that mining the ores in null sec requires more training time is the reason null sec ores should be worth more, not just because they're in null.
just like the same way level 4 missions are worth more than level 1 missions because you have to spend more time training to fly things capable of dealing with the missions.
Thats complete rubbish you can mine all types of ore with level 1 skills. missioning is completely different since you are right to complete the hard missions solo you need higher skills. I remember the days of sitting mining Arkonor in a hulk rigged up for max yield per cycle and did it fairly effectively with bare mining skills. You said it right there - why should someone in high sec suffer when they spent the same amount of time training mining skills to maximise their isk/hour then someone who does it in null sec? They've spent the same amount of time training so deserves to be rewarded. and you can fly a raven with nothing but caldari battleship II or something. how is missioning different? need higher skills for harder missions, just like you need higher skills to mine, and refine rarer (or, "harder") ores. but they haven't spent the same amount of time training skills. veldspar processing, for example, is a much faster train than things like arkonor processing. why shouldn't you be rewarded for spending the extra time training arkonor instead of veldspar? Read my post again and try to make sense of it. People who spend the time training to make their isk/hour more efficient should be rewarded i say that quite clearly. i tried but it's full of things that are just plain incorrect. my response was just correcting you.
Are you talking about "MINING" or "Reprocessing" since now you are talking about something 2 completely different acts. |
DrClit
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 11:50:00 -
[8] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:DrClit wrote:Are you talking about "MINING" or "Reprocessing" since now you are talking about something completely different. both, it applies to both equally.
I dont think it does since you can have someone do it for you and there are people that have "specialised" in having max processing yield. What has that got to do with null sec versus high sec? |
DrClit
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 11:56:00 -
[9] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:DrClit wrote:Dave Stark wrote:DrClit wrote:Are you talking about "MINING" or "Reprocessing" since now you are talking about something completely different. both, it applies to both equally. I dont think it does since you can have someone do it for you and there are people that have "specialised" in having max processing yield. What has that got to do with null sec versus high sec? could just, y'know read my posts and then you'd realise what this has to do with high sec and null sec.
Nope im obviously well below your intelligence so spell it out for me.
If its the point that to process arknor you need skills which means you should have a higher isk/hour then i've agreed with you. |
DrClit
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 11:59:00 -
[10] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:small victory for me then.
I didnt realise having a discussion on a forum was a form of pvp.
But since you claimed victory im still waiting for you to write a half decent reply. |
DrClit
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 12:03:00 -
[11] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:DrClit wrote:Dave Stark wrote:small victory for me then. I didnt realise having a discussion on a forum was a form of pvp. But since you claimed victory im still waiting for you to write a have decent reply. you wouldn't be waiting if you'd read my posts. *shrug*
I read your posts and i'm asking your to use the single brain cell you have to explain what this has to do with high sec industry versus null sec. |
DrClit
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 12:09:00 -
[12] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:
go read my posts and find out.
LOL....
you sound like Sheldon Cooper stuck in a loop so ill leave you there since it seems completely beyond you to have a civilised discussion. |
DrClit
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 12:20:00 -
[13] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:DrClit wrote:Dave Stark wrote:
go read my posts and find out.
LOL.... you sound like Sheldon Cooper stuck in a loop so ill leave you there since it seems completely beyond you to have a civilised discussion. hard to do that when one party refuses to read the posts.
I asked you to explain it again becuase i still get your argument.
There is a rule in effective commucation that says:
"The effectiveness of my communication is in the response i get".
just saying. |
DrClit
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 12:25:00 -
[14] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:DrClit wrote:just saying. you're not actually saying anything; that's the entire problem.
read my posts again and you will see that there is no problem. |
DrClit
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 12:34:00 -
[15] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:DrClit wrote:Dave Stark wrote:DrClit wrote:just saying. you're not actually saying anything; that's the entire problem. read my posts again and you will see that there is no problem. i've read them, there isn't anything for the last 2 pages or so. how long do you think we can keep this up for before some one else posts, or it gets locked, or something? i'd put isk on at least another page.
I still think you should read them again im pretty sure you'd get it eventually. |
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