EVE Search - Never Deal With Thieves, Even Large Ones.

Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
J'Nora	Posted - 2003.07.23 11:55:00 - [31] no point arguing with someone resorts to slandering all the time.
J'Nora	Posted - 2003.07.23 11:55:00 - [32] no point arguing with someone resorts to slandering all the time.
Nials Noir	Posted - 2003.07.23 13:20:00 - [33] In other words, you didnt think before you psted, I proved you wrong and you cant think of an intelligent reply, or what you said:no point arguing with someone resorts to slandering all the time. right.....sure... ----------------------------------------------- "The clone is a wonderful creation, it pulled me back from the jaws of death and now I am reborn."
Nials Noir Amarr Doomheim	Posted - 2003.07.23 13:20:00 - [34] In other words, you didnt think before you psted, I proved you wrong and you cant think of an intelligent reply, or what you said:no point arguing with someone resorts to slandering all the time. right.....sure... ----------------------------------------------- "The clone is a wonderful creation, it pulled me back from the jaws of death and now I am reborn."
J'Nora	Posted - 2003.07.23 14:18:00 - [35] nope. you answered my questions, fair enough. that's all they were, questions. I still stand by my opinion that you shouldn't demand more than what you actually LOST (you do the maths there... you gave 2 mill, you lost 2 mill) rather than expecting that a corporation honours a venture it did not executively approve. Tell me how you think you LOST 17 mil and do it without insulting me.
J'Nora	Posted - 2003.07.23 14:18:00 - [36] nope. you answered my questions, fair enough. that's all they were, questions. I still stand by my opinion that you shouldn't demand more than what you actually LOST (you do the maths there... you gave 2 mill, you lost 2 mill) rather than expecting that a corporation honours a venture it did not executively approve. Tell me how you think you LOST 17 mil and do it without insulting me.
Calladen Nimitz	Posted - 2003.07.23 14:26:00 - [37] I have asked the people involved in this transaction to contact me via e-mail (from our website). Once I review the information I will discuss it with the Executives and reach a decision as to a resolution. We will be posting a message on our website stating that ANY transaction involving a member of TTI is done with the individual and not the parent company. Ragnar was quite correct in stating we are not familiar with the details of this fund. I appreciate your patience in the matter and have already contacted the affected individuals by email. Calladen Nimitz
Calladen Nimitz Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2003.07.23 14:26:00 - [38] I have asked the people involved in this transaction to contact me via e-mail (from our website). Once I review the information I will discuss it with the Executives and reach a decision as to a resolution. We will be posting a message on our website stating that ANY transaction involving a member of TTI is done with the individual and not the parent company. Ragnar was quite correct in stating we are not familiar with the details of this fund. I appreciate your patience in the matter and have already contacted the affected individuals by email. Calladen Nimitz SOVEREIGN ENTERPRISES WEBPAGE AND FORUMS
Nials Noir	Posted - 2003.07.23 14:54:00 - [39] Thank you calladen. Jora: thats easy enough, in the past 2 and a half months, that money would have been invested in trade goods, which would thenn be sold at a profit, many times over. As I did not have that money to begin with, it took me a few weeks of mining my ass off to get enough money to get back into tradeing again, as I had to buy skills, ships, equipment etc for my new char, If I had had that money at the beginning, I would have far more than 17 mil in my wallet, as it stands I so far have less than 5 million isk. That is why I asked for the full amount owed, because if the money had been refunded as promised, I would not be in the position I am now, I would be able to buy ships for new members of my corp far more easily, I would be able to fly a cruiser in 0.0 space and mine good ores, hunt good pirates because I could afford to lose one, I would be able to invest in rare cargo expanders, overdrives, afterburners and other moduals making my trade runs even more profitable. You must see where im going with this. ----------------------------------------------- "The clone is a wonderful creation, it pulled me back from the jaws of death and now I am reborn."
Nials Noir Amarr Doomheim	Posted - 2003.07.23 14:54:00 - [40] Thank you calladen. Jora: thats easy enough, in the past 2 and a half months, that money would have been invested in trade goods, which would thenn be sold at a profit, many times over. As I did not have that money to begin with, it took me a few weeks of mining my ass off to get enough money to get back into tradeing again, as I had to buy skills, ships, equipment etc for my new char, If I had had that money at the beginning, I would have far more than 17 mil in my wallet, as it stands I so far have less than 5 million isk. That is why I asked for the full amount owed, because if the money had been refunded as promised, I would not be in the position I am now, I would be able to buy ships for new members of my corp far more easily, I would be able to fly a cruiser in 0.0 space and mine good ores, hunt good pirates because I could afford to lose one, I would be able to invest in rare cargo expanders, overdrives, afterburners and other moduals making my trade runs even more profitable. You must see where im going with this. ----------------------------------------------- "The clone is a wonderful creation, it pulled me back from the jaws of death and now I am reborn."
Sinzer	Posted - 2003.07.23 20:07:00 - [41] I hope this can be sorted out, I remember seeing the deal a while ago. As far as character references Commisar Gaunt was a good pilot (although a little misguided with his trigger finger :) ). I hope you get the money back Noir as you have dealt with this situation with great restraint IMO. ************************************ Explorer Extradonaire Any contract large or small Http://www.explore-eve.net
Sinzer Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2003.07.23 20:07:00 - [42] I hope this can be sorted out, I remember seeing the deal a while ago. As far as character references Commisar Gaunt was a good pilot (although a little misguided with his trigger finger :) ). I hope you get the money back Noir as you have dealt with this situation with great restraint IMO. ************************************ Explorer Extradonaire Any contract large or small Http://www.explore-eve.net
Ariakas Sprakus	Posted - 2003.07.23 22:25:00 - [43] Sounds like EvE players are taking tips from Enron and Worldcom Execs!!! I really hate people who mine for two minutes and want an equal share.
Ariakas Sprakus Gallente	Posted - 2003.07.23 22:25:00 - [44] Sounds like EvE players are taking tips from Enron and Worldcom Execs!!! I really hate people who mine for two minutes and want an equal share.
Nials Noir	Posted - 2003.07.24 00:19:00 - [45] Cheers sinzer, nice to know youve seen the error of your ways and become an honest citizen:P hehe ----------------------------------------------- "The clone is a wonderful creation, it pulled me back from the jaws of death and now I am reborn."
Nials Noir Amarr Doomheim	Posted - 2003.07.24 00:19:00 - [46] Cheers sinzer, nice to know youve seen the error of your ways and become an honest citizen:P hehe ----------------------------------------------- "The clone is a wonderful creation, it pulled me back from the jaws of death and now I am reborn."
OverKill	Posted - 2003.07.24 23:49:00 - [47] Edited by: OverKill on 24/07/2003 23:50:49 Quote: We will be posting a message on our website stating that ANY transaction involving a member of TTI is done with the individual and not the parent company. How convienant is that. Is it just me or are there a few lines to read between here? Lemme put on my secret decoder ring. "You can do business with any member of TTi but TTi as a whole won't take any responsibility for the actions of its members." Thats pretty much what that looks like to me. Despite my disagreements with TTi I respected their ability to lead their people. Right up until today. Double Standards are not true to the ideals that Rand envisioned. However, I digress. Glad it was all sorted out to everyones satisfaction. [email protected] - http://www.hadean.org Chief Executive Officer - Hadean Drive Yards
OverKill Caldari Hadean Drive Yards Archaean Cooperative	Posted - 2003.07.24 23:49:00 - [48] Edited by: OverKill on 24/07/2003 23:50:49 Quote: We will be posting a message on our website stating that ANY transaction involving a member of TTI is done with the individual and not the parent company. How convienant is that. Is it just me or are there a few lines to read between here? Lemme put on my secret decoder ring. "You can do business with any member of TTi but TTi as a whole won't take any responsibility for the actions of its members." Thats pretty much what that looks like to me. Despite my disagreements with TTi I respected their ability to lead their people. Right up until today. Double Standards are not true to the ideals that Rand envisioned. However, I digress. Glad it was all sorted out to everyones satisfaction. Building With Tomorrow's Technology, Today! Hadean Drive Yards
Calladen Nimitz	Posted - 2003.07.25 00:16:00 - [49] Edited by: Calladen Nimitz on 25/07/2003 00:18:00 Overkill, In fact this approach is very Randlike. By requiring the individual to accept responsibility we ensure two things, first that the corporation won't be financially crippled by the occasional "bad deal" and second that the individual indeed accepts responsibility for their actions. This is the height of Randian thinking in my opinion. In the Vexx case keep in mind the only money TTI would see in a deal like this is the 10% income tax Vexx would pay as a member. All the other "profits" of this transaction are the property of Vexx and his shareholders. As TTI doesn't see a direct profit from his deals we can hardly be blamed for also not accepting the blame for its downfall. The analogy that this is similar to a corp member who "goes crazy" and kills people (going rouge) not representing the entire corporation. Indeed Ragnar is the ONLY member of TTI who can make a statement which indeed represents the views of TTI. Others like myself who are Executive issue occasional policy but you'll notice if you've read the forums awhile many of my posts have a disclaimer at the bottom (these are my views and not those of TTI). There is a reason for this. In this case it appears a rouge member of TTI who is now absent for whatever reason (hopefully just irresponsibility and not an injury, accident or death) has vanished from Eve. This person had his own corporation ingame, using the TTI logo (but not our name), conducted his own financial transactions and sold these "shares" to buyers. Since this happend prior to the issuance of this TTI policy regarding individual culpability we are looking at some form of restitution in this case only. It should be noted that the Infinity Fund prospectus stated it isn't a guarantee. We aren't looking at restitution because of money lost but because this person (Vexx) hasn't fulfilled his duties to his customers. We are indeed under no obligation to do so but instead do so because in this case it is the right thing to do. I think all CEO's and corporate executives can sympathize with the fact that our members/employees often do things we would rather they not (much like real life). I think we can also sympathize with the fact that in this particular case TTI was as blindsided by these accusations as anyone else. Calladen Nimitz TTI Executive
Calladen Nimitz Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2003.07.25 00:16:00 - [50] Edited by: Calladen Nimitz on 25/07/2003 00:18:00 Overkill, In fact this approach is very Randlike. By requiring the individual to accept responsibility we ensure two things, first that the corporation won't be financially crippled by the occasional "bad deal" and second that the individual indeed accepts responsibility for their actions. This is the height of Randian thinking in my opinion. In the Vexx case keep in mind the only money TTI would see in a deal like this is the 10% income tax Vexx would pay as a member. All the other "profits" of this transaction are the property of Vexx and his shareholders. As TTI doesn't see a direct profit from his deals we can hardly be blamed for also not accepting the blame for its downfall. The analogy that this is similar to a corp member who "goes crazy" and kills people (going rouge) not representing the entire corporation. Indeed Ragnar is the ONLY member of TTI who can make a statement which indeed represents the views of TTI. Others like myself who are Executive issue occasional policy but you'll notice if you've read the forums awhile many of my posts have a disclaimer at the bottom (these are my views and not those of TTI). There is a reason for this. In this case it appears a rouge member of TTI who is now absent for whatever reason (hopefully just irresponsibility and not an injury, accident or death) has vanished from Eve. This person had his own corporation ingame, using the TTI logo (but not our name), conducted his own financial transactions and sold these "shares" to buyers. Since this happend prior to the issuance of this TTI policy regarding individual culpability we are looking at some form of restitution in this case only. It should be noted that the Infinity Fund prospectus stated it isn't a guarantee. We aren't looking at restitution because of money lost but because this person (Vexx) hasn't fulfilled his duties to his customers. We are indeed under no obligation to do so but instead do so because in this case it is the right thing to do. I think all CEO's and corporate executives can sympathize with the fact that our members/employees often do things we would rather they not (much like real life). I think we can also sympathize with the fact that in this particular case TTI was as blindsided by these accusations as anyone else. Calladen Nimitz TTI Executive SOVEREIGN ENTERPRISES WEBPAGE AND FORUMS
OverKill	Posted - 2003.07.25 00:28:00 - [51] Quote: I think all CEO's and corporate executives can sympathize with the fact that our members/employees often do things we would rather they not (much like real life). I think we can also sympathize with the fact that in this particular case TTI was as blindsided by these accusations as anyone else. Here I can agree with you 110% because it has happend to HDY (as my first response in this thread indicated) and that incident involved TTi who turned around and attempted a public spanking of Hadean with a big debate about whether they should hunt us down and all sorts of other scary topics. I just find it somewhat satisfying that Ragnar finally knows what it feels like to be in the shoes that others have stood in. By having a Corporate employee (no matter how loosely associated) act in a manner unbecoming the ideals that TTi does stand for it seems that things have come full circle. Life has a way of balancing things... Karma I believe is the word. Anyways, in a friendly gesture, here's mud in your eye (in otherwords its all in good sport). Regards, OK [email protected] - http://www.hadean.org Chief Executive Officer - Hadean Drive Yards
OverKill Caldari Hadean Drive Yards Archaean Cooperative	Posted - 2003.07.25 00:28:00 - [52] Quote: I think all CEO's and corporate executives can sympathize with the fact that our members/employees often do things we would rather they not (much like real life). I think we can also sympathize with the fact that in this particular case TTI was as blindsided by these accusations as anyone else. Here I can agree with you 110% because it has happend to HDY (as my first response in this thread indicated) and that incident involved TTi who turned around and attempted a public spanking of Hadean with a big debate about whether they should hunt us down and all sorts of other scary topics. I just find it somewhat satisfying that Ragnar finally knows what it feels like to be in the shoes that others have stood in. By having a Corporate employee (no matter how loosely associated) act in a manner unbecoming the ideals that TTi does stand for it seems that things have come full circle. Life has a way of balancing things... Karma I believe is the word. Anyways, in a friendly gesture, here's mud in your eye (in otherwords its all in good sport). Regards, OK Building With Tomorrow's Technology, Today! Hadean Drive Yards
Jon Ogden	Posted - 2003.07.25 06:48:00 - [53] Wow -- the TTI name is tarnished? No ****, and the sun is piping hot.
Jon Ogden Playboy Enterprises	Posted - 2003.07.25 06:48:00 - [54] Wow -- the TTI name is tarnished? No ****, and the sun is piping hot.
Calladen Nimitz	Posted - 2003.07.25 06:56:00 - [55] "Anyways, in a friendly gesture, here's mud in your eye (in otherwords its all in good sport)." I wasn't around then Overkill but I think I understand what you mean. Life does come full circle. No offense is taken at what you said and I hope my reply didn't offend you at all. This is very frustrating for me personally because I'm spending my gameplaying time fixing something OOG that wasn't my fault to begin with. While I'm an Exec which requires some OOG work this is simply a waste of a valuable resource (my time). Hopefully Vexx will magically appear and refund everyones money. From the scope of this incident I'm concerned that the overall level of claims my overwhelm our system. I wish CCP had a measure in place for something like this (like seize his assets) but he isn't even in TTI ingame so we can't even audit him. Calladen
Calladen Nimitz Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2003.07.25 06:56:00 - [56] "Anyways, in a friendly gesture, here's mud in your eye (in otherwords its all in good sport)." I wasn't around then Overkill but I think I understand what you mean. Life does come full circle. No offense is taken at what you said and I hope my reply didn't offend you at all. This is very frustrating for me personally because I'm spending my gameplaying time fixing something OOG that wasn't my fault to begin with. While I'm an Exec which requires some OOG work this is simply a waste of a valuable resource (my time). Hopefully Vexx will magically appear and refund everyones money. From the scope of this incident I'm concerned that the overall level of claims my overwhelm our system. I wish CCP had a measure in place for something like this (like seize his assets) but he isn't even in TTI ingame so we can't even audit him. Calladen SOVEREIGN ENTERPRISES WEBPAGE AND FORUMS
Sweet Fresca	Posted - 2003.07.25 07:36:00 - [57] If I recall, OverKill, this incident is quite different. Yours involved business partners of TTI actively attacking TTI and divulging details of private weapon sales to the enemy. There were about half a dozen people from HDY not only fighting TTI but also fighting HDY. That was a massive insurrection that caused major mayhem, destruction, and stolen private business dealings sent to the enemy (Endless Corp). That is a bit different than a single member of TTI opening a fund with a different in-game corporation. The other big difference is that Ragnar immediately claimed full responsibility and has tasked Calladen to find out who needs to be paid back. They will be refunded and the matter will be over, no damage done.
Sweet Fresca	Posted - 2003.07.25 07:36:00 - [58] If I recall, OverKill, this incident is quite different. Yours involved business partners of TTI actively attacking TTI and divulging details of private weapon sales to the enemy. There were about half a dozen people from HDY not only fighting TTI but also fighting HDY. That was a massive insurrection that caused major mayhem, destruction, and stolen private business dealings sent to the enemy (Endless Corp). That is a bit different than a single member of TTI opening a fund with a different in-game corporation. The other big difference is that Ragnar immediately claimed full responsibility and has tasked Calladen to find out who needs to be paid back. They will be refunded and the matter will be over, no damage done.
Deathwing	Posted - 2003.07.25 08:08:00 - [59] Sweet Fresca, aye I agree that the incident itself is quite different, but it is not the incident that is in question now in this discussion. It is the question of "if" the CEO and the Corporation of the member doing bad things should be held responsible for the memberÆs actions. What Overkill is trying to say is when bad things happened at HDY with TTI, Overkill was pretty much slapped in the face publicly and so forth, though, like Ragnar, had no knowledge of the event ever taking place. Also, like Ragnar, Overkill actively attempted to rectify the situation with what he deemed the best course of action. Now you could bring up the point of damage done to the corporation/players in the game. I agree that what has happened with TTI is a simple refund of ISK and everyone moves on their way simple as that. HDY's conflict was a little more complicated, but you should also take into consideration that the even also took place in Beta (beta 4) i believe back in December. Since it was Beta, anything that happens in Beta i.e. the loss of corporate assets and such, are obviously pointless because as p-wipes occurred and the game going gold, you wouldnÆt have had those assets in the long run in the first place. So now we come back to the question of "if" the CEO and the corporation of the said member should be held responsible for the memberÆs actions. Well, regardless of how severe the action against the corporation is, a precedence of sort, has been set and established, by TTI itself already. In my views, to set the standard so to speak, and then have the same thing happen to them and expect things to be different I think is rather pathetic. But hey, wtf do I know about running a corporation and inter-corporation relations and all that garbage <Stavros> A MAN DRESSED AS SPIDERMAN KICKED MY ASS
Deathwing Amarr Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2003.07.25 08:08:00 - [60] Sweet Fresca, aye I agree that the incident itself is quite different, but it is not the incident that is in question now in this discussion. It is the question of "if" the CEO and the Corporation of the member doing bad things should be held responsible for the memberÆs actions. What Overkill is trying to say is when bad things happened at HDY with TTI, Overkill was pretty much slapped in the face publicly and so forth, though, like Ragnar, had no knowledge of the event ever taking place. Also, like Ragnar, Overkill actively attempted to rectify the situation with what he deemed the best course of action. Now you could bring up the point of damage done to the corporation/players in the game. I agree that what has happened with TTI is a simple refund of ISK and everyone moves on their way simple as that. HDY's conflict was a little more complicated, but you should also take into consideration that the even also took place in Beta (beta 4) i believe back in December. Since it was Beta, anything that happens in Beta i.e. the loss of corporate assets and such, are obviously pointless because as p-wipes occurred and the game going gold, you wouldnÆt have had those assets in the long run in the first place. So now we come back to the question of "if" the CEO and the corporation of the said member should be held responsible for the memberÆs actions. Well, regardless of how severe the action against the corporation is, a precedence of sort, has been set and established, by TTI itself already. In my views, to set the standard so to speak, and then have the same thing happen to them and expect things to be different I think is rather pathetic. But hey, wtf do I know about running a corporation and inter-corporation relations and all that garbage <Stavros> A MAN DRESSED AS SPIDERMAN KICKED MY ASS

Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.