EVE Search - Cloaking Countermeasures

All Channels

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Cloaking Countermeasures

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Kenshi Hanshin BloodLust Enterprises Apocalypse Now. 13	Posted - 2013.03.05 20:37:00 - [1] - Quote I am sure that there will be people (mostly reds to me) that will be unhappy about this. Though I will be happy to start camping you in an "afk" cloaky ship too. If that helps to change your tune. Now moving on to the goal of this topic. Most of us would probably agree that cloaking ships are a bit OP. Mostly that there is no way in 'hell' to counter them. Unless you want to spend all of your free time for months working through the system. If so, I will be sitting here and wait for you to come back and report on how easy it was. As has been mentioned in the forums before, I believe, modules for POS were suggested. Modules that would emit a pulse causing the decloaking of ships in that system (every 5-15 min, I think it was). Personally, I think that is a great idea. Even Goonswarm might like to have those in 'certain' systems. The modules should be not too easy to setup and run. Otherwise it would nullify the use of cloaky ships. Yet it needs to still be in the realm of reasonable. Anyway, I am sure that some of you have criticism and flaming to do. So have at it!
Omnathious Deninard Extrinsic Operations 588	Posted - 2013.03.05 20:40:00 - [2] - Quote Wow this thread again, searching does wonders. And no most of us do not think cloaking is OP Ideas For Drone Improvement Updated 11/30/12Catastrophic Uprising is Recruiting
Drake Doe SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 54	Posted - 2013.03.05 20:42:00 - [3] - Quote They're hundreds of other threads about them, search button at the top (Posting in afk cloak thread number 14553671154)
Kenshi Hanshin BloodLust Enterprises Apocalypse Now. 13	Posted - 2013.03.05 20:51:00 - [4] - Quote Stay on topic! Or find something else to do... ___________________________________________ So are you two saying that you are against having POS mounted modules that can do that? Or are you two having nothing better to do besides acting like children?
Nikk Narrel Infinite Improbability Inc Unclaimed. 1401	Posted - 2013.03.05 21:10:00 - [5] - Quote Kenshi Hanshin wrote: Stay on topic! As you wish. I am highly amused by the suggestion that cloaking is OP. Every bottleneck gate a cloaked ship passes through forces it to be in a known quantity of space. Blame yourself if you cannot manage to make the effort needed to stop them. As to afk cloaking, no counter? It is an absurd blind spot to make that claim, because it IS the counter... the counter to the absolute intel provided freely to everyone by local's Amazing IntelGäó. Cloaking is already exposed by local. As local is an absolute factor, so is cloaking's concealment. Exchange local for a less absolute manner of exposing cloaking. Something that requires player effort, and has no guarantee of success. CCP will balance cloaking to match that, then. Remember, it takes an absolute to balance another absolute, and balance is needed for gameplay. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK.
Omnathious Deninard Extrinsic Operations 592	Posted - 2013.03.05 21:12:00 - [6] - Quote If you want a module to disrupt cloaks, then it must apply to ALL modules equally. Cloaked ships have never destroyed anything, or made any isk, or any thing really Ideas For Drone Improvement Updated 11/30/12Catastrophic Uprising is Recruiting
ShahFluffers Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance 2046	Posted - 2013.03.05 21:15:00 - [7] - Quote Kenshi Hanshin wrote: Now moving on to the goal of this topic. Most of us would probably agree that cloaking ships are a bit OP. I don't agree. How is a ship that has minimal tanking ability and/or delayed locking time coming out of cloak and/or lower combat ability in a direct confrontation and/or is extremely weak against certain types of ships OP? Kenshi Hanshin wrote: Mostly that there is no way in 'hell' to counter them. - rat, mine, or run complexes with a buddy or two in PvP ships. - PvP-fit your own ship (ex. warp disruptor, Warrior II drones, heavy energy neutralizer, etc). - get everyone into the same fleet and have one or two people in combat interceptors on standby at all times. - alter your PvE tactics... range and speed tank rather than sit and absorb damage. - use cheaper ships you won't mind replacing if something bad happens (ex. don't use a Faction Battleship or Carrier when a T1 battleship or battlecruiser will do). - use different kinds of ships that are better suited for hostile engagements (ex. use a Procurer versus a Hulk). Remember... a cloaky person will only decloak and attack someone he/she THINKS they can kill (which is actually a very short list). If you make yourself appear to be more trouble than you are worth, then you will be relatively safe. Kenshi Hanshin wrote: As has been mentioned in the forums before, I believe, modules for POS were suggested. Modules that would emit a pulse causing the decloaking of ships in that system (every 5-15 min, I think it was). Personally, I think that is a great idea. Even Goonswarm might like to have those in 'certain' systems. Of course every null-sec person would LIKE to have such a POS mod... but the fact of the matter is that it isn't "balanced" because it doesn't address WHY people AFK-cloak. AFK-Cloaking is done in response to Local reporting anyone and everyone who enters system 100% of the time without delay. Since null-sec people dock and log off when a "non-blue" enters system (denying any possibility for a random person or small group to do any damage) people bring in cloaking ships and sit in them for days... to dilute Local's infallibility. And even if you do somehow get this pushed through (fat chance) there will still be other ways to achieve the same result. For instance... did you know that you that "unprobable" ship setups still exist? Get an interceptor... fit it for speed and cap stability... add ECCM mods... plug in an implant set (either the one that increases your ship's sensor strength or the one that decreases your sig radius)... blitz into a system, safe up, and then burn towards some random place in space. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
Omnathious Deninard Extrinsic Operations 592	Posted - 2013.03.05 21:23:00 - [8] - Quote ShahFluffers wrote: Kenshi Hanshin wrote: Now moving on to the goal of this topic. Most of us would probably agree that cloaking ships are a bit OP. I don't agree. How is a ship that has minimal tanking ability and/or delayed locking time coming out of cloak and/or lower combat ability in a direct confrontation and/or is extremely weak against certain types of ships OP? This got me thinking a while back and a standard cloaking device has a 30 second sensor recalibration delay and -40% to scan resolution that kind of screws over most every combat situation for non covert ops cloaks. I think standard cloaks need buffed and bphave the scan resolution penalty removed. For covert ops cloaks the ships that can use them have paper tanks so they are balanced. Ideas For Drone Improvement Updated 11/30/12Catastrophic Uprising is Recruiting
Unsuccessful At Everything The Troll Bridge 2642	Posted - 2013.03.05 22:19:00 - [9] - Quote Kenshi Hanshin wrote: As has been mentioned in the forums before, EvE Forums Understatement of the Century nomination in regards to AFK cloaking threads. *Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?*
Shahai Shintaro Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry Templis Dragonaors 4	Posted - 2013.03.05 22:34:00 - [10] - Quote I posted in the last one and didn't get a response so I'll try again here. I don't live in null, I live in faction war low sec. I can see no issue with cloaked ships especially if they are afk. A cloaked ship can do nothing except provide Intel. The only way to know they are even there is a name in local, however that person may be docked in station or sitting in a pos. What effect does this player have on me? There have been several times where I have had to do something and had no station to dock at so I just cloak up. tl;dr Someone please explain to me why so many people have an issue with cloaking
Nikk Narrel Infinite Improbability Inc Unclaimed. 1401	Posted - 2013.03.05 22:43:00 - [11] - Quote Shahai Shintaro wrote: tl;dr Someone please explain to me why so many people have an issue with cloaking If you are serious, it is this: Players who rely on local chat to provide intel, rather than use other means of proactive defense, cannot resolve the presence of a pilot who is not blue to them. This causes them to avoid PvE activities for the duration of the stranger's presence. As they cannot blob them out, and their defensive ships apparently won't stay long enough to cover them otherwise, the cloaking pilot can stifle the PvE simply by letting local report them as being in the system. You simply have to keep them from locating your ship, thus denying blob defensive tactics. The flaw in the logic is simply that while a common means of hanging out in local this way, it is not necessary to be cloaked at all for this effect. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK.
Sura Sadiva Entropic Tactical Crew 333	Posted - 2013.03.05 23:01:00 - [12] - Quote Shahai Shintaro wrote: I posted in the last one and didn't get a response so I'll try again here. I don't live in null, I live in faction war low sec. I can see no issue with cloaked ships especially if they are afk. A cloaked ship can do nothing except provide Intel. The only way to know they are even there is a name in local, however that person may be docked in station or sitting in a pos. What effect does this player have on me? There have been several times where I have had to do something and had no station to dock at so I just cloak up. Is a problem only for some null-bears of course. They are trained to not do anything when the local is not 100% blue. Also: many of their ratting bots are programmed to automatically warp in safe when a neutral is in llocal; someone cloacked in there ruins their business. Shahai Shintaro wrote: tl;dr Someone please explain to me why so many people have an issue with cloaking Isn't "so many people" is always the same player reposting every 48 hours with a different alts. Most of ppl are perfectly fine with cloacking.
ShahFluffers Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance 2048	Posted - 2013.03.05 23:03:00 - [13] - Quote Shahai Shintaro wrote: I posted in the last one and didn't get a response so I'll try again here. I don't live in null, I live in faction war low sec. I can see no issue with cloaked ships especially if they are afk. A cloaked ship can do nothing except provide Intel. The only way to know they are even there is a name in local, however that person may be docked in station or sitting in a pos. What effect does this player have on me? There have been several times where I have had to do something and had no station to dock at so I just cloak up. This is just my point of view... but it has more to do with "safety" being proactive rather than defensive. Since I too live in low-sec I've come to expect ship on ship violence pretty much around every corner... waiting to hit me when I least expect it or want it. So I take precautions. And I still understand that even with precautions there is no guarantee that I will be completely "safe." But I'm okay with that. I accept it and factor it in when making ISK. However in null-sec things are very different. I've noticed that many players out there don't like to play "defensively"... instead they want to wipe out any possible threat as soon as possible and/or hide from it because it is simply easier to do so. AFK cloaking denies people the ability to do either because cloaked ships cannot be found and are fairly patient... which creates a constant, if unreliable, potential threat which people are not used to. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
Mikaila Penshar Take it Deep 67	Posted - 2013.03.06 00:18:00 - [14] - Quote wait... there's CLOAKING in eve?? meh- who knew
DataRunner Attor American Cerberus Shattered Empire 1	Posted - 2013.03.06 00:56:00 - [15] - Quote Cloaking is oped, cause it broken, and it broken because it untrackable, you can not find someone cloaked, you can catch him, but not out right find him. However it also balanced because we have a second item that is broken. That is Local Local gives everyone 100% reliable Intel, there is nothing more reliable then local. So before something can be brought into the game that is made to hunt cloakers, one must remove local as local in is itself is the real reason why cloaking is not only oped, but also balance so I suggest this for all you "Wish to balance cloaking thread makers." Before you add something, you must take something away with equal value. If you want to be able to have a ship/fitting that can detect cloak, you must in turn remove the tool that given to all players that allows them all to see cloakers with no training You must remove local.
Derath Ellecon Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal 1202	Posted - 2013.03.06 00:58:00 - [16] - Quote OMG OP really? First you bring up the exact topic that has been posted countless times. And shot down countless times. Then you can't even be bothered to come up with some new spin on the idea, to give you a valid reason to repost the same idea. THEN you can't even take the time to find someone else's post and at least copy their ideas in greater detail to be discussed. So if you are too damned lazy to do even the basics, why should anyone bother taking the time discussing an idea that has already been discussed into the ground. Maybe it's the same reason your alliance of over 1000 members are too damned lazy to defend the measly 4 systems you hold.
Mag's the united Negative Ten. 14359	Posted - 2013.03.06 01:04:00 - [17] - Quote Derath Ellecon wrote: OMG OP really? First you bring up the exact topic that has been posted countless times. And shot down countless times. Then you can't even be bothered to come up with some new spin on the idea, to give you a valid reason to repost the same idea. THEN you can't even take the time to find someone else's post and at least copy their ideas in greater detail to be discussed. So if you are too damned lazy to do even the basics, why should anyone bother taking the time discussing an idea that has already been discussed into the ground. Maybe it's the same reason your alliance of over 1000 members are too damned lazy to defend the measly 4 systems you hold. This. Malcanis for CSM 8. Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Georgina Parmala Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 3	Posted - 2013.03.06 02:56:00 - [18] - Quote Kenshi Hanshin wrote: Most of us would probably agree that cloaking ships are a bit OP. Mostly that there is no way in 'hell' to counter them. Unless you want to spend all of your free time for months working through the system. I know, right? They sit there in my wormhole, cloaked up, watching me... Watching me warp around and jump in and out. Sitting off wormholes or watching my POS. Watching me warp around planet to planet doing PI in my T1 hauler. Sitting on grid with me while I run anoms. Stalking me for a warpin while their fleet gets in position. I don't have local to tell me, but they're there. I KNOW they're there. They're ALWAYS there. Watching.. Waiting... And 0 ***** are given HTFU
Alara IonStorm 4417	Posted - 2013.03.06 03:14:00 - [19] - Quote Drake Doe wrote: They're hundreds of other threads about them, search button at the top (Posting in afk cloak thread number 14553671154) Yikes that many, lots of folks must want this. I would enjoy a Sweeper Ship for hunting cloaky ships. Like Subhunt... IN SPACE.
Drake Doe SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 55	Posted - 2013.03.06 05:45:00 - [20] - Quote Nope, I'd rather troll till this thread gets locked @ Alara Ironstorm just because something similar has been suggested hundreds (I'm probably not exaggerating) of time doesn't make it a good idea. With cloaky ship's main defence being said cloak a nerf to it is similar to halfing the effect of dcus on particular ships. If they could attack while cloaked I'd support this but since they can't, I don't
Roime Shiva Furnace 2149	Posted - 2013.03.06 05:58:00 - [21] - Quote Botters have their own forums, where they have agreed to keep this non-issue bumped on F & I all the time. Cloakers hurt their bot income, and they use standard astroturfing methods to fight for their RMT moneys. . -á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars -
Alara IonStorm 4424	Posted - 2013.03.06 06:01:00 - [22] - Quote Drake Doe wrote: @ Alara Ironstorm just because something similar has been suggested hundreds (I'm probably not exaggerating) of time doesn't make it a good idea. Way more then a hundred on this forum and the old one with a lot of support in its own right. As for a good idea vs a bad idea that is entirely a matter of opinion, one that many are for and many against. Drake Doe wrote: With cloaky ship's main defence being said cloak a nerf to it is similar to halfing the effect of dcus on particular ships. I disagree that it is halving the effect in fact. It depends on how effective a detection system is on a pilot to see how much of a nerf it is, say a system that busts them immediately vs on that can be easily evaded. I however prefer that the entire system be changed to allow for a greater possibility of stealth by a cloaked pilot with the ability to get in and out of places almost completely undetected with more risk if people are actively looking for you. A system that allows for more cloak and dagger for instance a cloak pilot in local spotted on the D-Scan, a fleet warps in and as the pilot detects them getting closer cloaked wolf pack at the edge of the system outside D-Scan range warp in. A system that maybe be a nerf to certain tactics but not to the ship because it makes other tactics more viable like hiding on the edge of a system free of local alert and then warping in to an area where targets might be. Trade offs that don't so much hurt ambushing but make it more active.
Roime Shiva Furnace 2149	Posted - 2013.03.06 06:19:00 - [23] - Quote Alara IonStorm wrote: Drake Doe wrote: @ Alara Ironstorm just because something similar has been suggested hundreds (I'm probably not exaggerating) of time doesn't make it a good idea. Way more then a hundred on this forum and the old one with a lot of support in its own right. As for a good idea vs a bad idea that is entirely a matter of opinion, one that many are for and many against. 99% of the topics are made by the same circle of active botters. They are the only group whose playstyle is hurt by neutrals in local. -á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars -
Alara IonStorm 4424	Posted - 2013.03.06 06:45:00 - [24] - Quote Roime wrote: 99% of the topics are made by the same circle of active botters. They are the only group whose playstyle is hurt by neutrals in local. Then CCP should investigate connections between people who make up these threads and people who Bot and RMT. Then keep an eye on threads created by people using throwaway alts or have no active history, see who plexes them ect. 99% of the respondents are the same people who responded negatively to this thread are the same ones from the last AFK Cloak threads BTW. I personally want a better stealthier more active cloak system with opposition but that is just me, botter wants be damned.
Roime Shiva Furnace 2149	Posted - 2013.03.06 07:48:00 - [25] - Quote I don't mind changes to cloaks, but anything that allows others to reveal cloaked ships would break them completely on ships like bombers, recons and T3s. Destroying all the gameplay enabled by these ship classes just for the benefit of botters makes no sense, I think you agree. The main issue these botters have with cloakies isn't even the cloak, it's cyno. Cyno is the most powerful module in game, and imo it's way too easy use on any ship, and force projection with it has also much wider consequences. Disposable, fast-train cyno alts aren't really great game design, and I'd seriously increase the skill and fitting requirements. However introducing cloak fuel wouldn't break them. -á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars -
TheSkeptic Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 132	Posted - 2013.03.06 08:51:00 - [26] - Quote OP just wants to remove all the risk but keep all the rewards. Cloaks aren't broken, no fix required. Efforts should go towards fixing local instead. ...
Onomerous Shockwave Innovations Shockwave Sovereign Industries 34	Posted - 2013.03.06 13:44:00 - [27] - Quote I've never seen a cloaked ship... ;) Posting to say cloaked ships are still not a problem. They suck and cause trouble but they don't need to be fixed. If cloaking bothers you so much, do not EVER go into a WH: No local + cloaks is a very difficult environment unlike the ease of local in Null.
Drake Doe SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 56	Posted - 2013.03.06 13:46:00 - [28] - Quote I'd be ok with a way to detect cloaked ships but only if required a specialized hull and quite a few weeks longer to skill into than other ships of the same class (possibly requiring maxing cloak operation)
Johnson Oramara Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 10	Posted - 2013.03.06 13:46:00 - [29] - Quote Kenshi Hanshin wrote: TLDR: Nerf Cloaking No.
Abrazzar Vardaugas Family 1033	Posted - 2013.03.06 14:08:00 - [30] - Quote Two ideas that are not really anti-cloaking methods but will allow players to gain more intel on cloaked ships: Special probes that can identify active cloaks in the system. High hit may identify the ship type but never a exact location is revealed, only a estimated are with high deviance. A module that allows to ping a area. Cloaked ships yield a visual pong but will not uncloak or show up on the overview. Limited range and long'ish cooldown. Both may require a special ship to use/fit. Maybe a T2 version of the new destroyers. Mining Overhaul Nothing changed since 2008.

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.