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Sorja
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Posted - 2005.08.17 00:10:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Gariuys
Which indeed means that you're at ranges where you can't guarantee kills solo, and where chances of getting killed are a lot lower as well.
When a Cerberus sits at range, it's a perfect target for battleships while most other hacs have a good opportunity to avoid large turrets fire (close range or tracking disruption).
The Cerberus cap being one of the biggest jokes in the game, it is probably the worst tanker of all HACs, so range won't help you much, unless you want to pop tech I frigs, that a Cerb can't kill at range before they warp out anyways.
There's one thing a Cerberus is good at: freaking people off.
When your target takes one light missile in their face every second, chances are they'll warp out. Or die from laughing when they realize what damage you are doing to them 
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Weirda
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Posted - 2005.08.17 00:58:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Weirda on 17/08/2005 01:00:40
don't like the idea of making these into another stealth bomber (with missile velocity or explosion radius bonus + ability to fit larger launchers). that would be for a future class of ships, that should only be looked at once they balance the crappy delivery mechanism (ships) that they had a very interesting idea for (stealth bomber).
that being said and pretending that another damage bonus ain't gonna happen (or isn't wanted by some so that ship isn't cookie cutter) - how about:
bonus 1: all damage instead of kinetic (though hating this for RP reasons)
bonus 2: keep missile velocity
bonus 3: missile velocity AGAIN (kind of like a dual optimal bonus - but this would increase range by same amount while delivering the missiles much faster)
bonus 4: keep rof
wouldn't this cut some of the flight time down very dramatically? and lets face it... 6 seconds goes by much faster then you think in eve... 
oh - and for the love of god... please reintroduce the shaking of the ship (causing slowed alignment) with missile damage. that was the coolest thing in the game. not to mention that the cerebus could effectively warp scramble you from very long range if streaming missiles right!! 
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Thread Killer
(attempting to train verbosity from 4 back down to 1)
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Calian
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Posted - 2005.08.17 02:59:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Weirda
oh - and for the love of god... please reintroduce the shaking of the ship (causing slowed alignment) with missile damage. that was the coolest thing in the game. not to mention that the cerebus could effectively warp scramble you from very long range if streaming missiles right!!
It still does shake your ship, but not having been playing that long, perhaps it just does it less now? In the angel strike missions, 10/10, I was getting hit by an insane amount of torps and cruise missiles and heavy missiles from those 2 groups of ships, and it kept me from warping out for a few seconds, so it does work, just so small that in most cases it's a moot point.
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I hate everyone, except you. |
Udoshi
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Posted - 2005.08.17 03:26:00 -
[34]
Replace the kinetic missile damage bonus with a damage boost to all missiles.
With the new missile patch, doesn't the velocity bonus result in more damage?
Stick a reload bonus on there, too.
AKA [CG}SilverKnight of Deus Ex |
Kelgen Thann
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Posted - 2005.08.17 03:33:00 -
[35]
The Ceb range bonus is a joke, as one person mentioned you could stay at 40km or 60km, but then the entire Bonus is negated it serves no purpose.
The Caldari HACS, need some attention in both the ship bonuses and the missles they use. T2 launchers are hurting by themselves, they fire just as fast as arblast with some more room for missles...
I can fly Caldari HACS but don't want to put the isk into it because they suck at any and all roles I as a gamer face. PVP and PVE (Rat Hunting) I can get a much greater effect for the same cost with other ship options, so the Caldari HACS serve no role yet.
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Sorja
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Posted - 2005.08.17 03:52:00 -
[36]
And the Caldari HACs dronebay could be doubled too.
Oh... wait... 2 x 0 is still 0 
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2005.08.17 04:20:00 -
[37]
1st Bonus - 5% All Missile Damage (this should be changed for the Caracal and other ships as well IMO..)
2nd Bonus - 10% Missile Velocity
3rd Bonus - 5% Launcher ROF
4th Bonus - 10% Missile Velocity
As previously stated, this improved the DPS of the Cerberus at long range, and keeps it more or less the same at short range.
I think the Cerberus could use some more cap and perhaps a smidgen more shields, its HP total is pretty low and its capacitor is a total joke as well, trying to run a non-gist shield booster on this ship drains you cap in just a few cycles.. I don't care if the launchers don't use cap, 850 capacitor is simply not enough for this ship, it's not a gank ship, and it can't really outlast another HACs damage via boosting, period.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
ELECTR0FREAK
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Posted - 2005.08.17 04:25:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Sorja
And the Caldari HACs dronebay could be doubled too.
Oh... wait... 2 x 0 is still 0
So damn true... cmon CCP, let me fit like TWO light drones so that my Cerberus isn't pinned infinately by a long-range Inty that I can't kill with missiles (for gods sake, an inty going over 3500 m/s can usually PASSIVE SHIELD TANK those missiles).
IMO, all HACs should have the room to fit just a few light drones to counter Inties.
-Electrofreak
Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula |
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2005.08.17 04:28:00 -
[39]
Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK
Originally by: Sorja
And the Caldari HACs dronebay could be doubled too.
Oh... wait... 2 x 0 is still 0
So damn true... cmon CCP, let me fit like TWO light drones so that my Cerberus isn't pinned infinately by a long-range Inty that I can't kill with missiles (for gods sake, an inty going over 3500 m/s can usually PASSIVE SHIELD TANK those missiles).
IMO, all HACs should have the room to fit just a few light drones to counter Inties.
fitting two light drones would only give an inty target practice, they are useless in pvp. a crow can tank 5 light drones indefidently with its passive shield recharge, they simply do no damage. cerberus does not need a drone bay, it needs to do a bit more DPS with missiles and it needs a bit more cap and shield to make it on par with other HAC.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
ELECTR0FREAK
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Posted - 2005.08.17 04:31:00 -
[40]
Well, I just dunno man, I don't think HACs should be so vulnerable to ceptors is all. Perhaps you're right about the light drones, but what else is to be done? I fit an E50 nos onto my Cerb, but it doesn't do much but keep 7.5km tacklers at bay.
-Electrofreak
Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula |
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2005.08.17 04:33:00 -
[41]
Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK
Well, I just dunno man, I don't think HACs should be so vulnerable to ceptors is all. Perhaps you're right about the light drones, but what else is to be done? I fit an E50 nos onto my Cerb, but it doesn't do much but keep 7.5km tacklers at bay.
a web and a target painter would probably help, an assault launcher cerb would probably do fine as long as it had a web. other than that i dunno. a medium nos might help a lot too.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
ELECTR0FREAK
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Posted - 2005.08.17 05:51:00 -
[42]
Edited by: ELECTR0FREAK on 17/08/2005 06:19:00
Any Interceptor orbiting past 10.5 km will have a field day with a Cerberus. 
Painter wont help (sig radius from MWDing will already allow Heavy Missiles do do max damage), webber wont help (Inty stays outside range) and you'll be doing (consults calculator) about 9 damage before resists with maxed Target Navigation Prediction using Scourge against a target going 4 km/sec. Thats 45 damage before resists, per salvo.
Light missiles actually have the same problem, because while their damage is reduced less (because of higher explosion velocity), they have less damage to begin with. This means that Light missiles will be doing 11 damage each, or 55 damage per salvo before resists.
-Electrofreak
Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula |
W0lverine
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Posted - 2005.08.17 05:59:00 -
[43]
Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK
Any Interceptor orbiting past 10.5 km will have a field day with a Cerberus.
same with many other ships
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2005.08.17 06:03:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Jim Raynor on 17/08/2005 06:06:30
Edited by: Jim Raynor on 17/08/2005 06:03:22
domination web!! ;/
medium nosferatu II has a range of 12km
an inty needs to get 7.5km to scramble too so..... its in web range and nos range..
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
ELECTR0FREAK
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Posted - 2005.08.17 06:21:00 -
[45]
I dunno about you, but I see plenty of Inties sporting some cap relays and 20km scramblers nowadays. And yes, I realize other HACs have a similar problem, thats why I'd like to see all of them with enough of a drone bay to counter tacklers.
As for that Domination Web, I actually have one... anyone buying?
-Electrofreak
Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula |
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2005.08.17 06:41:00 -
[46]
Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK
I dunno about you, but I see plenty of Inties sporting some cap relays and 20km scramblers nowadays. And yes, I realize other HACs have a similar problem, thats why I'd like to see all of them with enough of a drone bay to counter tacklers.
As for that Domination Web, I actually have one... anyone buying?
i might
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
ELECTR0FREAK
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Posted - 2005.08.17 06:43:00 -
[47]
Its in Impass, ASCN space, you'll have to come and get it 
-Electrofreak
Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula |
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2005.08.17 07:16:00 -
[48]
Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK
Its in Impass, ASCN space, you'll have to come and get it
i'll have to consult general ackbar on this one.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.08.17 13:19:00 -
[49]
"Light missiles actually have the same problem, because while their damage is reduced less (because of higher explosion velocity), they have less damage to begin with. This means that Light missiles will be doing 11 damage each, or 55 damage per salvo before resists."
Long range inties aren't that well tanked (need to keep that cap recharge up) so with 55 hp every 5 secs or so you might be able to actually kill it in not that long time... similar effect with heavy missiles, i'd figure.
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Sorja
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Posted - 2005.08.17 13:30:00 -
[50]
Originally by: W0lverine
Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK
Any Interceptor orbiting past 10.5 km will have a field day with a Cerberus.
same with many other ships
Which have dronebays.
Exactly what we are talking about.
I think only the Zealot has no dronebay neither, like it needs one 
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Jan Ors
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Posted - 2005.08.17 13:42:00 -
[51]
For the damage bonus, why not instead have +5% damage to all missiles, but this extra damage would always be kinetic? Thus keeping the racial damage theme.
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My chosen sig won't fit. Fah. |
Rexthor Hammerfists
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Posted - 2005.08.17 13:47:00 -
[52]
a crow as example can orbit with close to 4k ms at 19k and outrun all kinds of drones, even smalls - but drones in the caldari hacs would be just fair.
until caldari hacs get fixed(!), i suggest u all to take ravens and use some unusual fittings on it, its far more fun then getting angry bout the useless 80-90m wreck called cerb ;)
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Eyeshadow
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Posted - 2005.08.17 14:17:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Eyeshadow on 17/08/2005 14:17:44
your cerb can have its 5% damage to all missiles if you give me EM or explosive ammo for the deimos or kinetic/explosive dmg for lasers. You say kinetic dmg is the most tanked dmg in the game yet my deimos deals primarily kinetic, and also thermal, which is also heavily tanked. You already get to chose ur damage type with a missile boat. Giving a boost to all missiles is plain wrong
Oh and dont complain about a cerberus being an easy target for a ceptor outside web range. What do you think my deimos with blasters can do outside 10km? Atleast you can hit him and kill him eventually. I certainly cant
Im not saying the cerberus is good, im just saying what your suggesting is, imo, not valid. The flight time bonus is indeed pretty crap, so lets change that for something useful, like a tank bonus (same as eagle) or sommat, i dunno. I dont fly caldari
Forums: Sharks * MC |
DarK
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Posted - 2005.08.17 14:26:00 -
[54]
The difference is your Deimos actually does damage, whereas the Cerberus doesn't.
With it's 5% to kinetic it does bugger all damage with kinetic as is, you'd have to be absolutely retarded to use another missile type.
A tanking bonus would be absolutely useless, seeing as 1. it's cap is abysmal and 2.it does crap damage as is in gank mode, tanking it will mean it won't kill anything.
But as you said, you don't fly caldari so you wouldn't know..
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.08.17 14:36:00 -
[55]
"your cerb can have its 5% damage to all missiles if you give me EM or explosive ammo for the deimos or kinetic/explosive dmg for lasers."
Lux S crystal: 4 em/16 explosive/4 thermal
Blaze S crystal: 4 em/20 explosive
Void S hybrid charge: 7 em/5 thermal
Bolt S hybrid charge: 6 em/5 thermal
does it mean we can have Cerberus doing more damage when these hit the market? >>;;
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Ravenge
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Posted - 2005.08.17 14:46:00 -
[56]
Giving the bonus to all ammo types, would over power the cerb in a major way.
I know there are those that will claim it won't but the sad fact is, it would.. after all.. cerb vs deimos.. both have their natural tanked for kin and therm damage, and has been stated several times.. both can sit and pound each other till they run out of ammo (if the cerb uses scourge missles.)
Giving the cerb the ability to have its damage across all missle types would just make things silly. If the cerb can do damage to all types, then it should have its range reduced to say that of a deimos using neutrons.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.08.17 15:09:00 -
[57]
"Giving the cerb the ability to have its damage across all missle types would just make things silly. If the cerb can do damage to all types, then it should have its range reduced to say that of a deimos using neutrons."
Deimos with 5 ion blasters, no drones: 197 dps on regular targets
Cerberus with 5 heavy launchers and 25% damage bonus: 135 dps on regular targets, 150 dps when exploiting resistance holes.
Yeah, totally makes sense to give these two the same range >.<;;
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Weirda
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Posted - 2005.08.17 15:19:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Jim Raynor
1st Bonus - 5% All Missile Damage (this should be changed for the Caracal and other ships as well IMO..)
2nd Bonus - 10% Missile Velocity
3rd Bonus - 5% Launcher ROF
4th Bonus - 10% Missile Velocity
As previously stated, this improved the DPS of the Cerberus at long range, and keeps it more or less the same at short range.
owfg - jim raynor agree with weirda about missile! 
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Thread Killer
(attempting to train verbosity from 4 back down to 1)
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2005.08.17 15:27:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Ravenge
Giving the bonus to all ammo types, would over power the cerb in a major way.
how the **** can you overpower the cerb from where it is atm???!
adding a lot of stuff to cerb (bigger cap, better bonuses and 6 launcher points) would just about draw it level with other HACs
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Stuart85
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Posted - 2005.08.17 15:29:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Ravenge
Giving the bonus to all ammo types, would over power the cerb in a major way.
I know there are those that will claim it won't but the sad fact is, it would.. after all.. cerb vs deimos.. both have their natural tanked for kin and therm damage, and has been stated several times.. both can sit and pound each other till they run out of ammo (if the cerb uses scourge missles.)
Giving the cerb the ability to have its damage across all missle types would just make things silly. If the cerb can do damage to all types, then it should have its range reduced to say that of a deimos using neutrons.
Haha, overpowered? Admit it, you don't want to see the Caldari with even a half-decent HAC do you? Christ, it would take a lot more than a 5% bonus to all missiles to overpower the Cerberus.
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