Except it says STV and "Because the top 2 are chosen based on a secondary STV with only 2 seats, they will each have to appear on as close to 50% of all ballots as possible."

That comment does not even mention the wright system, as then it would not be that " they will each have to appear on as close to 50% of all ballots as possible."

That comment doesn't mention the wright system because it was made before they had selected (or at least announced the selection of) the system. So, at this point, you're trying to say that an offhanded comment is more accurate than the rules of the system that they've actually announced.

Yes, well, you edited it while I was responding.

Might I suggest that one of the first things CSM 8 looks at is the restoration of the CSM itself.

And removing this stupid rule letting CCP chose who our delegates are that goes to Iceland.

It removes all incentives from the candidates to be frank with CCP and encourages brown nosing.

Add on to that the stupid voting system and subsequently anything else that comes out of these elections.

Now I would like to hear all the candidates points of view on the new voting system and well as the selection system compared to the old one.

And how many candidates actually know how the 2 decided by vote to go to Iceland is achieved.

Because lets face it if all the candidates cannot describe it bugger all of the electorate will.

So thank you those members of CSM 7 that created this travesty and all the resources that the CSM will have to use to fix it.

May you rot.

I definitely do not support the CCP selection as I think it is very subjective as to who is the "best" CSM in terms of work. Know what works a lot, a washing machine. But over communicating and the appearance of activity may not actively reflect on the quality or effectiveness of the actual efforts of a particular member. And as you mention CCP could definitely "cull" out members that strongly oppose CCP's plans.

If a CSM member in that top portion really is so inactive as to be useless at the summit they should be removed from the CSM entirely. Let the voters have their representatives meet CCP face to face, not just the "cool kids".

Issler

By inviting the hardest working, they are advocating for the drones not the intelligent creative thinkers, while at the same time destroying the uniqueness of the CSM.

I am sure that everyone will agree with you that CSMs like Seleene, Hans Jagerblitzen, Alekseyev Karrde, Two step, Kelduum Revaan, Elise Randolph, The Mittani, Vile Rat, Mynxee, Teadaze, Meissa Anunthiel and Dierdra Vaal -- to name a few -- were all a bunch of uncreative asskissing drones.

History strongly suggests that the correlation is in fact exactly the opposite.

I am sure that everyone will agree with you that CSMs like Seleene, Hans Jagerblitzen, Alekseyev Karrde, Two step, Kelduum Revaan, Elise Randolph, The Mittani, Vile Rat, Mynxee, Teadaze, Meissa Anunthiel and Dierdra Vaal -- to name a few I have served with -- were all a bunch of uncreative asskissing drones.

History strongly suggests that the correlation is in fact exactly the opposite.

Might I suggest that one of the first things CSM 8 looks at is the restoration of the CSM itself.

And removing this stupid rule letting CCP chose who our delegates are that goes to Iceland.

It removes all incentives from the candidates to be frank with CCP and encourages brown nosing.

Add on to that the stupid voting system and subsequently anything else that comes out of these elections.

Now I would like to hear all the candidates points of view on the new voting system and well as the selection system compared to the old one.

And how many candidates actually know how the 2 decided by vote to go to Iceland is achieved.

Because lets face it if all the candidates cannot describe it bugger all of the electorate will.

So thank you those members of CSM 7 that created this travesty and all the resources that the CSM will have to use to fix it.

May you rot.

If a CSM guy requires a trip to Iceland to be frank with CCP, then he should never have been elected in the first place.

Per Trebor's comment on his Crossing Zebras interview (IIRC) then being on the CSM is a very inefficient way of going to iceland. If you value the "free" trip at -ú1000, then that works out to an effective rate of about -ú0.60--ú1.00 an hour for the 1000-1500 hours a hard-working CSM puts in. It would be far easier to get a job at MacDonalds or stacking shelves at Tescos for a couple of months and use the money to pay for a holiday that doesn't involve 3 days of meetings in a converted fish factory in Reykjavik in November.

I disagree. The trip to Iceland is hardly a reward; it's time I could be spending earning money at my job for my family.

I'm running for the CSM because I want to make an honest contribution to the game. A trip to Iceland, and whether or not I get chosen for that, doesn't even enter my equation.

Well that is fair enough then

Why don't you just publicly say in your campaign that you will refuse if offered, other wise it kind of sounds like political double speak.

Well that is fair enough then

Why don't you just publicly say in your campaign that you will refuse if offered, other wise it kind of sounds like political double speak.

Yes and so without the trip what rewards do the other members of the CSM that put in 1000-1500 hours of hard work?

Because there is honest work done at it. It's a disadvantage for me, but not going means I get to contribute even less over the course of a year.

It used to be that 90% of what CSM did happened during summits. Now its 10% or less. Also, non-present members can videoconference in.

Why should he say that? Going to Iceland represents an additional opportunity to represent the view he wants implemented. Of course he wants to go to Iceland, but not for its own sake, but for the reason he's running for CSM in the first place: an opportunity to work to make EVE a better game to play.

They get the reward of making EVE better, which is why they're running in the first place.

If I wanted "rewards" other than that, I wouldn't be competing for a 'job' that pays a quid an hour. I'd just sign up to do a few weekends and bank holidays at work, and enjoy my extra money and time in lieu. It'd only take me a few weeks to get a far better 'reward'.

You seem to be stuck on this idea that the iceland conferences are a jolly, a treat, a reward. But all the CSM reps that have been to them are unanimous in saying that they're actually very hard work. Do you think they're all lying?

But trebor has perfectly well stated that the trip is unimportant these days.

Wow. He didn't say that at all.

Well, when you're convinced there's a conspiracy, it doesn't matter what anyone else says. Best of luck to you in your crusade.

It used to be that 90% of what CSM did happened during summits. Now its 10% or less. Also, non-present members can videoconference in.

I'm still trying to figure out what FD's actual point/motivation in all this badposting is. At this point I think it's pure troll for trollings sake.

I agree completely, Frying.

The only way the CSM will have any relevance at all is if CCP has no say or oversight over it. Otherwise CCP will always be able to corrupt the process. It's obvious that we can't allow CCP to pick and choose who gets to go to iceland and who doesn't.

That's only a start on what's needed to fix the broken CSM, though. Even if we just sent whoever has the most votes, guess who controls the votes? CCP. CCP will just pick brown nosing yes men and say they won. Only CCP counts the votes, so how would we know? Voting needs to be handled by an impartial third party. This way we can insure the validity and credibility of the votes. As long as CCP is involved, we can't be sure CCP isn't rigging the election.

The next step, once we have insured CCP can't stop us from getting the people we really want in office is protecting those people from reprisal. If a player decides to speak up and challenge CCP they can easily be silenced by CCP threatening to ban their account. The logical way to prevent this is to make it so CSM members are immune from any disciplinary action from CCP, but that's obviously open to abuse. Open to abuse by CCP threatening the friends, family and corpmates of the CSM delegates. The only way to be sure is to make CCP relinquish the ability to police accounts all accounts to an independent entity. Perhaps the same one that handles the voting. Once CCP can't take action against any accounts, CSM members will be free to say what they really think. Mostly.

Of course, this doesn't completely solve the problem. They can still effect players through game design. For example if a CSM member from a big Null sec alliance tries to speak out, they could change their space to be really crappy, or just nerf null sec isk into the ground. Therefore, CCP needs to relinquish the ability to make game changes to an independent third party, who will then develop the game on CCP's behalf.

There is still the issue that CCP has hired this company to do handle voting and policing and game design for them and thus can fire them if they don't do what CCP says. So instead CCP should just sell EvE to another company. This way CCP has no undue influence over the CSM.

Once CCP has no control over the game, we'll finally be able to have a fair and impartial CSM that is willing to speak it's mind and challenge CCP on what it could theoretically do in the game if they still had tha ability to do things. As long as EvE is CCP's game, CCP will have a say in what happens in it. Obviously, we can't allow that.

I agree completely, Frying.

The only way the CSM will have any relevance at all is if CCP has no say or oversight over it. Otherwise CCP will always be able to corrupt the process. It's obvious that we can't allow CCP to pick and choose who gets to go to iceland and who doesn't.

That's only a start on what's needed to fix the broken CSM, though. Even if we just sent whoever has the most votes, guess who controls the votes? CCP. CCP will just pick brown nosing yes men and say they won. Only CCP counts the votes, so how would we know? Voting needs to be handled by an impartial third party. This way we can insure the validity and credibility of the votes. As long as CCP is involved, we can't be sure CCP isn't rigging the election.

The next step, once we have insured CCP can't stop us from getting the people we really want in office is protecting those people from reprisal. If a player decides to speak up and challenge CCP they can easily be silenced by CCP threatening to ban their account. The logical way to prevent this is to make it so CSM members are immune from any disciplinary action from CCP, but that's obviously open to abuse. Open to abuse by CCP threatening the friends, family and corpmates of the CSM delegates. The only way to be sure is to make CCP relinquish the ability to police accounts all accounts to an independent entity. Perhaps the same one that handles the voting. Once CCP can't take action against any accounts, CSM members will be free to say what they really think. Mostly.

Of course, this doesn't completely solve the problem. They can still effect players through game design. For example if a CSM member from a big Null sec alliance tries to speak out, they could change their space to be really crappy, or just nerf null sec isk into the ground. Therefore, CCP needs to relinquish the ability to make game changes to an independent third party, who will then develop the game on CCP's behalf.

There is still the issue that CCP has hired this company to do handle voting and policing and game design for them and thus can fire them if they don't do what CCP says. So instead CCP should just sell EvE to another company. This way CCP has no undue influence over the CSM.

Once CCP has no control over the game, we'll finally be able to have a fair and impartial CSM that is willing to speak it's mind and challenge CCP on what it could theoretically do in the game if they still had tha ability to do things. As long as EvE is CCP's game, CCP will have a say in what happens in it. Obviously, we can't allow that.

but I must still ask who do you send

you answered "10 hard-working people is still more than the 7 primary CSM members."

and that is very much what this comes down to "Who do you send", which members go and who stay, it becomes dependent on CCP to decide not on the playerbase.

But over communicating and the appearance of activity may not actively reflect on the quality or effectiveness of the actual efforts of a particular member.

Yes and so without the trip what rewards do the other members of the CSM that put in 1000-1500 hours of hard work?