"If you want to make enemies, try to change something."

No

And removing this stupid rule letting CCP chose who our delegates are that goes to Iceland.t.

It's a better idea than letting the community choose to send people to a summit that never say more than 5 sentences over three days or who ONLY speak when it's summit time and do **** all the rest of the year long term.

Yes but as the CSM is the voice if the players, don't you think it should be the players who decided that not CCP.

Uhh, unless I'm mistaken there is still a vote to decide who is ON the CSM, and the top 2 candidates still get to go to the summit regardless. So it seems your fears regarding "the players" voices being quashed are unsubstantiated.

Personally, it makes business sense to me, when you're flying 7 people halfway around the world to iceland for a summit, you should probably make sure they are the most knowledgeable or beneficial people regarding the upcoming topics. Otherwise you're missing out on valuable operational experience.

Also, it makes it so tagalongs don't get a free vacation.

Is the summit really a 'reward'? It's two days of jetlag and meetings. I don't think ccp will only choose to invite who they like, they'll pick who'll be the most useful for the topics under discussion

Hans would have been an auto-invite had the new system been in place last year.

Confirming that null sec does not impact high sec, and vice versa.

CCP has said their expansions will take a more holistic approach now, with themed changes to many areas of the game. Now, even more than before, they will be looking at having a wide range of opinions during the Summit meetings.

And even if they were focusing on only null sec, for example, it is in their best interests to have one person representing areas of space that would be affected by changes to moon goo and T2 production, for example.

10 hard-working people is still more than the 7 primary CSM members. As it stood before the change, the 7 were sent who had gained the most votes in an election over a half a year previously. Hardly representative of the work they had actually done on the CSM council--I'm familiar with some alternates who have done more work than primaries during their tenure.

In the new system, at least someone will be looking at contributions done during the year, even if it IS a company with a vested interest in how they're represented.

Is it perfect? No, no system is. One is governed by swayed and distant opinion of the masses, the other by the relationships of people who've worked together for months. Between the two, though, I think the newer system has more merit and will be the lesser of the two evils.

The Scope of the CSM

The purpose of the CSM is to suggest improvements to CCP designs and to suggest possible courses of future action . The scope of issues is restricted only to EVE, its ongoing development, and limited meta (out-of-game) issues which have direct relevance to the EVE universe. It is important to keep in mind that the CSM will not have formal powers within CCP, they will have a voice inside CCP.

And removing this stupid rule letting CCP chose who our delegates are that goes to Iceland.

It removes all incentives from the candidates to be frank with CCP and encourages brown nosing.

Now I would like to hear all the candidates points of view on the new voting system and well as the selection system compared to the old one.

And how many candidates actually know how the 2 decided by vote to go to Iceland is achieved.

So thank you those members of CSM 7 that created this travesty and all the resources that the CSM will have to use to fix it.

May you rot.

Going drinking with the devas is a lot more reward than working all year and getting nothing back.

How do you define most useful

The STV vote is re-run, except with two slots instead of 14. This raises the threshold to get one of the top two slots from integer([(total votes cast)/15]+1) to integer([(total votes cast)/3]+1); in an election with 100k votes cast, that means it goes from 6667 votes to snag a seat to 33,334. Aside from that change, the election is re-run as normal. Due to the exceptionally high vote requirement, of course, the idea of "transfer" would tend to lose meaning... a candidate who appeared on ten thousand ballots as the first choice in the election to choose the CSM would transfer 3333 votes (3333/10000 votes each) to the second preference candidates on each of those ballots, but of course would keep them all for himself in the top-two election. As there are two seats, the goal here is basically to appear on as many ballots as possible in as high a ranking as possible.

Based on the activity of the last few CSM's, it's actually hilariously easy - it's defined by those members that consistently articulate an intelligible point of view on the information we are provided with. Rarely is that number more than 7-9 out of the 14 elected and those people are easy to see standouts by the time of the first summit. By continuing this argument, you are effectively advocating for people that aren't doing the work in the first place.

You're right, under the assumption that the CSM is what it claims to be. However, under the more accurate perception of the CSM as a cheap system for product-testing wrapped up with a transparent customer sop, the new system makes a lot of sense.

Were I you, I would disabuse myself of my idealistic illusions about what is really going on, as there are no levers of power with which to change the situation. You may be ethically justified in staying this course, and more or less correct in your arguments, but it will ultimately prove fruitless because no one really cares.

Tl;DR You're right, but no one will care.

Is the summit really a 'reward'? It's two days of jetlag and meetings.

Nice STV mathematics. You might want to check that against what has been said by CCP though.

Six days. One day flying there, one day recovering/prep, three days of meetings, one day flying back.


I did check with CCP Dolan when the devblog came out. Mynnna's interpretation is correct.

The ballots are processed by using Wright-STV twice. First with 14 winners to determine who the CSM delegates are, then again with 2 winners to determine the "top 2".

To get one of the top 2 slots you need broad support from the entire community.

Nice STV mathematics.

You might want to check that against what has been said by CCP though.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2687879#post2687879

In that post, they link to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wright_system

That article says "Quota )Droop Quota(Q) means the number determined by dividing the Total Vote (Tv) by 1 more than the number of candidates required to be elected and by increasing the quotient (disregarding any remainder) (Q = integer(Tv/(1+No of Vacancies))+1)"

So, what I said was accurate. And CCP clarification on picking the two that go is unnecessary; from the devblog, "[...] and the final 2 attendees will be the "most preferred" candidates, chosen by reentering the election results into an STV election to select the top 2 candidates." So, just as I said before, the ballots are re-run through the STV election, with two slots up for grabs instead of 14.

Except it says STV and "Because the top 2 are chosen based on a secondary STV with only 2 seats, they will each have to appear on as close to 50% of all ballots as possible."

That comment does not even mention the wright system, as then it would not be that " they will each have to appear on as close to 50% of all ballots as possible."

That comment doesn't mention the wright system because it was made before they had selected (or at least announced the selection of) the system. So, at this point, you're trying to say that an offhanded comment is more accurate than the rules of the system that they've actually announced.

Yes, well, you edited it while I was responding.

Might I suggest that one of the first things CSM 8 looks at is the restoration of the CSM itself.

And removing this stupid rule letting CCP chose who our delegates are that goes to Iceland.

It removes all incentives from the candidates to be frank with CCP and encourages brown nosing.

Add on to that the stupid voting system and subsequently anything else that comes out of these elections.

Now I would like to hear all the candidates points of view on the new voting system and well as the selection system compared to the old one.

And how many candidates actually know how the 2 decided by vote to go to Iceland is achieved.

Because lets face it if all the candidates cannot describe it bugger all of the electorate will.

So thank you those members of CSM 7 that created this travesty and all the resources that the CSM will have to use to fix it.

May you rot.

I definitely do not support the CCP selection as I think it is very subjective as to who is the "best" CSM in terms of work. Know what works a lot, a washing machine. But over communicating and the appearance of activity may not actively reflect on the quality or effectiveness of the actual efforts of a particular member. And as you mention CCP could definitely "cull" out members that strongly oppose CCP's plans.

If a CSM member in that top portion really is so inactive as to be useless at the summit they should be removed from the CSM entirely. Let the voters have their representatives meet CCP face to face, not just the "cool kids".

Issler

By inviting the hardest working, they are advocating for the drones not the intelligent creative thinkers, while at the same time destroying the uniqueness of the CSM.

I am sure that everyone will agree with you that CSMs like Seleene, Hans Jagerblitzen, Alekseyev Karrde, Two step, Kelduum Revaan, Elise Randolph, The Mittani, Vile Rat, Mynxee, Teadaze, Meissa Anunthiel and Dierdra Vaal -- to name a few -- were all a bunch of uncreative asskissing drones.

History strongly suggests that the correlation is in fact exactly the opposite.

I am sure that everyone will agree with you that CSMs like Seleene, Hans Jagerblitzen, Alekseyev Karrde, Two step, Kelduum Revaan, Elise Randolph, The Mittani, Vile Rat, Mynxee, Teadaze, Meissa Anunthiel and Dierdra Vaal -- to name a few I have served with -- were all a bunch of uncreative asskissing drones.

History strongly suggests that the correlation is in fact exactly the opposite.

Might I suggest that one of the first things CSM 8 looks at is the restoration of the CSM itself.

And removing this stupid rule letting CCP chose who our delegates are that goes to Iceland.

It removes all incentives from the candidates to be frank with CCP and encourages brown nosing.

Add on to that the stupid voting system and subsequently anything else that comes out of these elections.

Now I would like to hear all the candidates points of view on the new voting system and well as the selection system compared to the old one.

And how many candidates actually know how the 2 decided by vote to go to Iceland is achieved.

Because lets face it if all the candidates cannot describe it bugger all of the electorate will.

So thank you those members of CSM 7 that created this travesty and all the resources that the CSM will have to use to fix it.

May you rot.

If a CSM guy requires a trip to Iceland to be frank with CCP, then he should never have been elected in the first place.

Per Trebor's comment on his Crossing Zebras interview (IIRC) then being on the CSM is a very inefficient way of going to iceland. If you value the "free" trip at -ú1000, then that works out to an effective rate of about -ú0.60--ú1.00 an hour for the 1000-1500 hours a hard-working CSM puts in. It would be far easier to get a job at MacDonalds or stacking shelves at Tescos for a couple of months and use the money to pay for a holiday that doesn't involve 3 days of meetings in a converted fish factory in Reykjavik in November.

I disagree. The trip to Iceland is hardly a reward; it's time I could be spending earning money at my job for my family.

I'm running for the CSM because I want to make an honest contribution to the game. A trip to Iceland, and whether or not I get chosen for that, doesn't even enter my equation.

Well that is fair enough then

Why don't you just publicly say in your campaign that you will refuse if offered, other wise it kind of sounds like political double speak.

Well that is fair enough then

Why don't you just publicly say in your campaign that you will refuse if offered, other wise it kind of sounds like political double speak.

Yes and so without the trip what rewards do the other members of the CSM that put in 1000-1500 hours of hard work?

Because there is honest work done at it. It's a disadvantage for me, but not going means I get to contribute even less over the course of a year.

It used to be that 90% of what CSM did happened during summits. Now its 10% or less. Also, non-present members can videoconference in.

Why should he say that? Going to Iceland represents an additional opportunity to represent the view he wants implemented. Of course he wants to go to Iceland, but not for its own sake, but for the reason he's running for CSM in the first place: an opportunity to work to make EVE a better game to play.

They get the reward of making EVE better, which is why they're running in the first place.

If I wanted "rewards" other than that, I wouldn't be competing for a 'job' that pays a quid an hour. I'd just sign up to do a few weekends and bank holidays at work, and enjoy my extra money and time in lieu. It'd only take me a few weeks to get a far better 'reward'.

You seem to be stuck on this idea that the iceland conferences are a jolly, a treat, a reward. But all the CSM reps that have been to them are unanimous in saying that they're actually very hard work. Do you think they're all lying?

But trebor has perfectly well stated that the trip is unimportant these days.

Wow. He didn't say that at all.

Well, when you're convinced there's a conspiracy, it doesn't matter what anyone else says. Best of luck to you in your crusade.

It used to be that 90% of what CSM did happened during summits. Now its 10% or less. Also, non-present members can videoconference in.

I'm still trying to figure out what FD's actual point/motivation in all this badposting is. At this point I think it's pure troll for trollings sake.

I agree completely, Frying.

The only way the CSM will have any relevance at all is if CCP has no say or oversight over it. Otherwise CCP will always be able to corrupt the process. It's obvious that we can't allow CCP to pick and choose who gets to go to iceland and who doesn't.

That's only a start on what's needed to fix the broken CSM, though. Even if we just sent whoever has the most votes, guess who controls the votes? CCP. CCP will just pick brown nosing yes men and say they won. Only CCP counts the votes, so how would we know? Voting needs to be handled by an impartial third party. This way we can insure the validity and credibility of the votes. As long as CCP is involved, we can't be sure CCP isn't rigging the election.

The next step, once we have insured CCP can't stop us from getting the people we really want in office is protecting those people from reprisal. If a player decides to speak up and challenge CCP they can easily be silenced by CCP threatening to ban their account. The logical way to prevent this is to make it so CSM members are immune from any disciplinary action from CCP, but that's obviously open to abuse. Open to abuse by CCP threatening the friends, family and corpmates of the CSM delegates. The only way to be sure is to make CCP relinquish the ability to police accounts all accounts to an independent entity. Perhaps the same one that handles the voting. Once CCP can't take action against any accounts, CSM members will be free to say what they really think. Mostly.

Of course, this doesn't completely solve the problem. They can still effect players through game design. For example if a CSM member from a big Null sec alliance tries to speak out, they could change their space to be really crappy, or just nerf null sec isk into the ground. Therefore, CCP needs to relinquish the ability to make game changes to an independent third party, who will then develop the game on CCP's behalf.

There is still the issue that CCP has hired this company to do handle voting and policing and game design for them and thus can fire them if they don't do what CCP says. So instead CCP should just sell EvE to another company. This way CCP has no undue influence over the CSM.

Once CCP has no control over the game, we'll finally be able to have a fair and impartial CSM that is willing to speak it's mind and challenge CCP on what it could theoretically do in the game if they still had tha ability to do things. As long as EvE is CCP's game, CCP will have a say in what happens in it. Obviously, we can't allow that.

I agree completely, Frying.

The only way the CSM will have any relevance at all is if CCP has no say or oversight over it. Otherwise CCP will always be able to corrupt the process. It's obvious that we can't allow CCP to pick and choose who gets to go to iceland and who doesn't.

That's only a start on what's needed to fix the broken CSM, though. Even if we just sent whoever has the most votes, guess who controls the votes? CCP. CCP will just pick brown nosing yes men and say they won. Only CCP counts the votes, so how would we know? Voting needs to be handled by an impartial third party. This way we can insure the validity and credibility of the votes. As long as CCP is involved, we can't be sure CCP isn't rigging the election.

The next step, once we have insured CCP can't stop us from getting the people we really want in office is protecting those people from reprisal. If a player decides to speak up and challenge CCP they can easily be silenced by CCP threatening to ban their account. The logical way to prevent this is to make it so CSM members are immune from any disciplinary action from CCP, but that's obviously open to abuse. Open to abuse by CCP threatening the friends, family and corpmates of the CSM delegates. The only way to be sure is to make CCP relinquish the ability to police accounts all accounts to an independent entity. Perhaps the same one that handles the voting. Once CCP can't take action against any accounts, CSM members will be free to say what they really think. Mostly.

Of course, this doesn't completely solve the problem. They can still effect players through game design. For example if a CSM member from a big Null sec alliance tries to speak out, they could change their space to be really crappy, or just nerf null sec isk into the ground. Therefore, CCP needs to relinquish the ability to make game changes to an independent third party, who will then develop the game on CCP's behalf.

There is still the issue that CCP has hired this company to do handle voting and policing and game design for them and thus can fire them if they don't do what CCP says. So instead CCP should just sell EvE to another company. This way CCP has no undue influence over the CSM.

Once CCP has no control over the game, we'll finally be able to have a fair and impartial CSM that is willing to speak it's mind and challenge CCP on what it could theoretically do in the game if they still had tha ability to do things. As long as EvE is CCP's game, CCP will have a say in what happens in it. Obviously, we can't allow that.

but I must still ask who do you send

you answered "10 hard-working people is still more than the 7 primary CSM members."

and that is very much what this comes down to "Who do you send", which members go and who stay, it becomes dependent on CCP to decide not on the playerbase.

But over communicating and the appearance of activity may not actively reflect on the quality or effectiveness of the actual efforts of a particular member.

Yes and so without the trip what rewards do the other members of the CSM that put in 1000-1500 hours of hard work?

So we put you in the basket of not caring that the power of your votes is diminished, understood. Also so nice to see someone so trusting of CCP and having faith in them not to lie, oh and I have a lovely bridge I would like to sell you.

I don't know what you're talking about, I agree with you completely. CCP is a menace and by far the biggest threat to EvE that EvE has ever or will ever face.

If I were elected CSM the first thing I'd do when I got off the plane to Iceland is punch the first CCP employee I saw right in the face. You need to establish dominance quickly. The CSM is basically like prison, you either beat the crap out of someone the first day, or you end up someones *****. That's why I'd also sharpen the end of my toothbrush before I went, too. I'd also smuggle in as much illict substances as I could by putting them in a balloon and swallowing them, but that's more for personal reasons.

Yeah...except it usually does. Even Two Step, who I've gotten into fights with over his communication style at summits, I'd consider him without a doubt as an easily identified worker compared to our silent partners. In the rare instance where it doesn't, or there's legitimate reason this person should be going but CCP is resistant because they're a critic, the rest of the CSM can use their consultation powers to support them. And failing all that, CSM members that aren't imported now have the ability (and officially typed out right) to appear remotely which I can tell you from personal experience is a major step from earlier summit arrangements.

I like traveling and Iceland in particular. But it's more of burden than a reward to others, consuming all of their vacation days and requiring epicly long plane rides (West Coast US to Iceland in some cases).

As for rewards for those who stay home, I got to Real Talk CCP Soundwave about POS, 0.0, and wardecs while wearing pajama pants.

I don't know what you're talking about, I agree with you completely. CCP is a menace and by far the biggest threat to EvE that EvE has ever or will ever face.

If I were elected CSM the first thing I'd do when I got off the plane to Iceland is punch the first CCP employee I saw right in the face. You need to establish dominance quickly. The CSM is basically like prison, you either beat the crap out of someone the first day, or you end up someones *****. That's why I'd also sharpen the end of my toothbrush before I went, too. I'd also smuggle in as much illict substances as I could by putting them in a balloon and swallowing them, but that's more for personal reasons.

Once CCP has no control over the game, we'll finally be able to have a fair and impartial CSM that is willing to speak it's mind and challenge CCP on what it could theoretically do in the game if they still had tha ability to do things. As long as EvE is CCP's game, CCP will have a say in what happens in it. Obviously, we can't allow that.

I don't know what you're talking about, I agree with you completely. CCP is a menace and by far the biggest threat to EvE that EvE has ever or will ever face.

If I were elected CSM the first thing I'd do when I got off the plane to Iceland is punch the first CCP employee I saw right in the face. You need to establish dominance quickly. The CSM is basically like prison, you either beat the crap out of someone the first day, or you end up someones *****. That's why I'd also sharpen the end of my toothbrush before I went, too. I'd also smuggle in as much illict substances as I could by putting them in a balloon and swallowing them, but that's more for personal reasons.

If we get 10 hard working people on the council, more than double the usual number for CSMs 1-7, then I think changes to the election and selection system could be deemed an unqualified success. The problem of how to pick between 10 extremely awesome representatives is a good problem to have.


Yeah...except it usually does. Even Two Step, who I've gotten into fights with over his communication style at summits, I'd consider him without a doubt as an easily identified worker compared to our silent partners. In the rare instance where it doesn't, or there's legitimate reason this person should be going but CCP is resistant because they're a critic, the rest of the CSM can use their consultation powers to support them. And failing all that, CSM members that aren't imported now have the ability (and officially typed out right) to appear remotely which I can tell you from personal experience is a major step from earlier summit arrangements.

Re "culling" it's just not possible unless they send a dev to their "target" and break his or her webcam. If CCP has tuned a CSM rep out because they're a Frying Doom and decide not to pick him (assuming even if they'd be a good choice and the CSM agrees they should go) he should show up to the meetings like Hans and I did and speak his piece so it's in the minutes. They wont listen to him any more or less if he's in the room; he'd just be taking up space for someone who can communicate+participate more effectively.


I like traveling and Iceland in particular. But it's more of burden than a reward to others, consuming all of their vacation days and requiring epicly long plane rides (West Coast US to Iceland in some cases).

As for rewards for those who stay home, I got to Real Talk CCP Soundwave about POS, 0.0, and wardecs while wearing pajama pants.

Quoting the next CSM chairman!

I'd argue if you just use the metric of getting something done the record is not so clear. Volume and quantity are not the same as effectiveness or quality. I can think of cases in fact where the tone combined with the volume of communication went from persuasion to ineffective ranting.

The addition of remote meetings is great and has changed the character of the CSM. I was able to attend some of the first CSM 7 summit and most of the last summit remotely. To say that you can be as effective as being 1:1 just isn't true. Face to face beats " web cam to web cam" every time. For example when there are prototypes to interact with remote sucks.

Also, folks need to realize if you want to see Iceland the CSM is the worst possible way. If you want to see Iceland in the context of Eve then Fanfest is the answer. If you just want to go to Iceland, find something to do that pays to do with the time you have to spend as part of the CSM and just pay for a nice vacation there. You can go when you want and when you get there do whatever you want and see what you want to see. You'd probably even have some money left over!

So for the folks that do run and get elected I hope you are ready to commit and you are doing it for the love of Eve. The CSM 7 leaves you the opportunity to have the most influence with the dev process of any CSM to date. If you are running for the right reasons and get elected you have the opportunity to move that ball even further down the field. If you are running for ego/trip to Iceland/drama/circus then please find another distraction as you are just wasting a lot resources and time. Not to mention losing the momentum gained from CSM 6 and CSM 7,

One final thing, you no longer seem to get a CSM medal! So make sure you are doing this as a service to the game, not for the medal!!

Issler

So if they go to Iceland but do not complete the duties of their office, it really would just show off the system as a butt kissers free trip program.

Could have been a lot nicer in my response, thereby - edited.

Then enough people should be disgusted about what the CSM has become to demand a change to the system by next year

Yeah. Let's go here. I might need a history lesson, and I'm sure I'll get one from some of the senior members of the CSM if it's called for.

If I've got this right, the CSM was instituted in response to an incident where a GM allowed an in-game entity to procure some ISK printing devices (T2 BPO's?) before others could get them, thus causing a game imbalance. The CSM was supposed to enforce/insure fairness?

Now, it seems like people are under the impression that the CSM somehow controls the direction of EVEOnline's development. That's quite a bit of mission drift. As I understand it, the CSM has NEVER had this power. Clarification/education is always appreciated if I'm wrong about this.

---

I'd like to add that, having read all the published minutes released so far that I'm going to vote for the incumbents who participated in the last CSM. Ya'll had your sh!t together. On top of that, those had to be the most complete "minutes" I've ever read. Transcripts is a more accurate term.

The CSM has never really had a great deal of power but it is slowly gaining more. Its actual purpose is to act as our voice to CCP and give ideas in game direction, while stating our point of view to any current crisis. They are effectively our union.

*The Truth*

Legends do speak of a chosen one who will defeat Hilmar in single combat, absorbing his powers and becoming the new CEO of CCP. I don't see it happening with this CSM class as none of the candidates running have stated a platform of decapitating Hilmar and absorbing his powers via The Quickening.

The CSM serves 2 purposes. They are primarily there to represent the customer (the players) to CCP in a way that effectively allows them to close the loop on the development cycle. It gives them a sounding board for ideas before a single piece of code is written, allowing them to refine an idea, bounce it off the CSM and hopefully skip several iterations of bad code from ever being written before it becomes what is best for the game.

The second, is to present broad stroked ideas to CCP that they may have missed. To give them opportunity to begin the development cycle and start bouncing more refined ideas back at the CSM.

Damage control to the player base is something that was originally part of the process (and in fact, its founding purpose after the t20 debacle), and reappeared as a duty after monocle-gate, but is not a primary purpose of the CSM. It's a critical function, but not something guarenteed to be part of CSM 8, 9, 10 and so on should it not be needed.

Anyone who tells you otherwise isn't understanding of the CSM. When I see fellow candidates posting specific ideas on POS PG and CPU utilization changes that they are going to make happen should they be elected, I cringe. They cannot and will not ever be able to fulfill those "promises". I'm not saying that a candidate shouldn't respond if asked by someone what they think about changes in detail, but to believe that you will be involved in the fine grain details of changes in the game at a level where you are telling the design and development team what to do, you have no true understanding of the position.

It doesn't seem like any of you truly understand what the CSM is, so allow me to enlighten you.

No one knows where the first CCP employees came from, although The Watchers have found records of them throughout all of recorded history. An CCP employee can only die only after being beheaded, and the CSM delegates and CCP employees battle one another in ritual single combat to the death, until the CSM summit when the few remaining Immortals will fight until only one remains to take "The Prize". We aren't exactly sure what the prize is it's probably some limited edition shuttle bullshit because you know CCP.

There are some who believe CCP are actually aliens exiled from Zeist to Earth but THESE PEOPLE ARE ******* WRONG THAT NEVER HAPPENED, GOT THAT!?

Legends do speak of a chosen one who will defeat Hilmar in single combat, absorbing his powers and becoming the new CEO of CCP. I don't see it happening with this CSM class as none of the candidates running have stated a platform of decapitating Hilmar and absorbing his powers via The Quickening.

This is why ensuring CCP can't pick the delegates that go to Iceland is so important. They'll make sure only the weaker ones go, who will fall and only make CCP stronger.

It doesn't seem like any of you truly understand what the CSM is, so allow me to enlighten you.

No one knows where the first CCP employees came from, although The Watchers have found records of them throughout all of recorded history. An CCP employee can only die only after being beheaded, and the CSM delegates and CCP employees battle one another in ritual single combat to the death, until the CSM summit when the few remaining Immortals will fight until only one remains to take "The Prize". We aren't exactly sure what the prize is it's probably some limited edition shuttle bullshit because you know CCP.

There are some who believe CCP are actually aliens exiled from Zeist to Earth but THESE PEOPLE ARE ******* WRONG THAT NEVER HAPPENED, GOT THAT!?

Legends do speak of a chosen one who will defeat Hilmar in single combat, absorbing his powers and becoming the new CEO of CCP. I don't see it happening with this CSM class as none of the candidates running have stated a platform of decapitating Hilmar and absorbing his powers via The Quickening.

This is why ensuring CCP can't pick the delegates that go to Iceland is so important. They'll make sure only the weaker ones go, who will fall and only make CCP stronger.

Actually CCP really does award swords to senior staff. I wonder...

RE Two Step as Secretary, yeah he dropped the ball on that and Hans had to pick it up. Even STILL Two Step is easily identifiable as someone that meaningfully and consistently participates compared to the Do-Nothings.

Yes Two step did a lot of work as a CSM member, especially the POS thread where he stood up for us, the players while other CSM members did not seem to care.

But He did not fulfill the duties of the office he held. No one forced him into that office, he chose it and Trebor even helped him by falling on his own sword and becoming Vice-Chairman.

So the bottom line is if the office holders do not contribute to their offices they should not attend summits. The change was very much designed to stop CSM members who were not contributing from going to Iceland, so why should it be different for Office holders that fail to contribute?

First of all, I completely disagree with Alek. The whitepaper says that the secretary is responsible for the minutes, and I certainly took the lead in organizing that. While I don't want to diminish Hans' considerable contributions, I have no idea wtf Alek is talking about.

I'll happy defend my record of contribution against anyone.

I disagree. The trip to Iceland is hardly a reward; it's time I could be spending earning money at my job for my family.

Sounds like you need a better job. I get paid more to take time off.

Sounds like you need a better job. I get paid more to take time off.

Sounds like you need a better job. I get paid more to take time off.

I'm a kindergarten teacher.

'Nuff said.

Well that explains why you would run for the CSM while your real name becomes visible to so many weirdos

Your Insane from looking after children.

I'm a kindergarten teacher.

'Nuff said.

I'm a kindergarten teacher.

'Nuff said.

Yeah, but can you cope with Icelandic pre-school?