| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Lig Lira
   |
Posted - 2005.08.17 14:57:00 -
[1]
So lasers users don't need ammo, so what?
But why can they change ammo instantly, where it takes projectile, hybrid and missile users 10 seconds?
|
Admiral IceBlock
|
Posted - 2005.08.17 14:59:00 -
[2]
unfair? hardly. advantage? yes!
kthxbye
"We brake for nobody"
|
Rodj Blake
|
Posted - 2005.08.17 15:13:00 -
[3]
Lasers don't use ammo, true, but they do use cap.
The other thing to consider is that they have a smaller fall-off than hybrids and projectiles, which means that their damage is more range-sensitive. And that means that you need to change crystals more often.
Dolce et decorum est pro imperator mori |
Muddy FunkStar
|
Posted - 2005.08.17 15:16:00 -
[4]
Amarr 4TW - always has been but shhhh and keep it under your hat, okay?
|
X'Alor
|
Posted - 2005.08.17 15:44:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Lig Lira
So lasers users don't need ammo, so what?
But why can they change ammo instantly, where it takes projectile, hybrid and missile users 10 seconds?
I must ask, "when was the last time you personally used any lasers and actually tried to change crystals in space?"
Cuz if you had you would not have posted this at all and know about the Not so new crystal changing "feature".
To set record straight WE CAN'T instantly change like you say any longer and we haven't been able to for a long time now ....like 3 monthes or so.
Just so all you worry warts know. When we change a crystal now it does change relatively quickly BUT the gun pulses while the change is in process just like your guns pulse when you hit relaod button. If we click the next gun and change to the same range crystal as we just changed while the previous gun is still pulsing, it pulls the crystal from the first change and installs it into the second gun if we do so while first gun is still flashing.......
that means first gun is crystal less and will NOT FIRE.
Lets say your changing all to xray crystals. if the crystal gets pulled from first change and installed in second gun the first gun still thinks it has an xray crystal in it but it is empty and will not fire.
so to get aan xray into that gun, you right click gun, look for xray but it aint there cuz the gun thinks it's already in there.
so now you gotta do a second change on that first gun to any other crystal and then change it a third time back to xray.
and if you do that third change back to xray and happen to try and change third gun crystal too fast it will empty it again and that first gun you'll have to do 5 changes just to get an xray in.
Ammo changes for you pull from a pile, ammo changes for lasers pulls the top crystal and if you do it to fast to next gun it still pulls first crystal and bugs the gun till you swap out an invisible non existant crystal with another and change back to what should have been in there.
so move along and come up with a new hey this aint fair thread.
What's not fair about it is the laser gun gets bugged out and WILL NOT FIRE IF YOU DO IT TOO FAST NOW and a ammo gun will not bug at all.
good'ay
|
Dayon
|
Posted - 2005.08.17 15:45:00 -
[6]
well because of the crappy bug with crystals don't chance sometimes and apear emethy and need to be change again it does not give too much of an advantage. Btw try looking at lasers fall-off range they are much smaller then the other races so we need to change ammo type more often then other races.
|
Bruchpilot
|
Posted - 2005.08.17 17:34:00 -
[7]
I didn't use lasers for quite a long time now but wouldn't stack items help? It helps with projectiles/hybrids...
|
Muntz
|
Posted - 2005.08.17 17:43:00 -
[8]
No, stacking doesn't really help. As soon as you change a crystal, it takes the whole stack away for about a second, then puts it back minus one crystal. I helps avoid the competition between lasers for the same crystal, but it doesn't hasten the process. In short it's a pain in the arse, and it's only viable if you've got 2 or 3 lasers, or in between fights.
Try it, you'll understand immediately.
|
xenorx
|
Posted - 2005.08.17 17:46:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Bruchpilot
I didn't use lasers for quite a long time now but wouldn't stack items help? It helps with projectiles/hybrids...
Nope it doesnt help to have them stacked or unstacked. The gun will jam either way. It is quite frustrating to have to switch crystals and wait for each gun to fully load before you can load the next gun. I havent timed it but I would not be surprised to find that a full crystal change to 4 or more turrets takes longer than any other ammo type overall. Not sure if it is a bug or a feature but that is the way it is.
|
Nafri
|
Posted - 2005.08.17 18:10:00 -
[10]
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=213144&page=4
Your bla bla hit bla bla for bla bla damage. Wanna have some bubu now? |
Meridius
|
Posted - 2005.08.17 18:11:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Lig Lira
But why can they change ammo instantly, where it takes projectile, hybrid and missile users 10 seconds?
Check the range/falloff of a 425mm rail and compare it to the range/falloff of a Megabeam.
________________________________________________________
|
Jelosavich
|
Posted - 2005.08.17 18:39:00 -
[12]
um.... If you stack the crystals it works just fine, I was just doing a bunch with it yesterday, and no crystals got switched. As for the crystals being taken out and put in another gun, you can go to that first gun and hit reload and it will take one from cargo. Still annoying when it happens, but not nearly as bad as you say.
|
Nyphur
|
Posted - 2005.08.17 18:42:00 -
[13]
Soemthing people tend to forget is that "different" does not mean "unbalanced". Lasers switch crystals instantly and don't use ammo but that doesn't make them unbalanced, just different than other weapons. If the weapons were all the same, it'd be pretty boring.
|
j0sephine
|
Posted - 2005.08.17 18:53:00 -
[14]
"To set record straight WE CAN'T instantly change like you say any longer and we haven't been able to for a long time now ....like 3 monthes or so.
Just so all you worry warts know. When we change a crystal now it does change relatively quickly BUT the gun pulses while the change is in process just like your guns pulse when you hit relaod button. If we click the next gun and change to the same range crystal as we just changed while the previous gun is still pulsing, it pulls the crystal from the first change and installs it into the second gun if we do so while first gun is still flashing......."
It takes literally 1-2 secs for that crystal to switch, which is typically about the same time it takes to right-click the next gun in the row, wait for the menu to load, put your mouse over the crystal and left-click to have it loaded... meaning hardly any practical delay when switching multiple crystals. So yes, less than 2 secs _tops_ is indeed "relatively quickly" when compared to 10 secs it takes to swich other types of ammo...
|
CptEagle
|
Posted - 2005.08.17 18:54:00 -
[15]
2 facts here:
1. Lasers have crappy fall-off so they need to change crystals much more often.
2. With decent skills lasers use less cap then hybrids.
IMO crystals should degrade.
|
ExChange
|
Posted - 2005.08.17 18:56:00 -
[16]
its weird... hybrids use lots of cap and ammo... but dont have an advantage in damage...
and how is it easier to move a massive 10m3 chrystal compared to hybrid charges that are reasonable small...
|
danneh
|
Posted - 2005.08.17 19:01:00 -
[17]
Originally by: CptEagle
2 facts here:
2. With decent skills lasers use less cap then hybrids.
But we are giving up a bonus to use less cap, how about the megathron loses its dmg bonus for the apocs bonus?.
|
Richard Masterson
|
Posted - 2005.08.17 19:02:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Meridius
Originally by: Lig Lira
But why can they change ammo instantly, where it takes projectile, hybrid and missile users 10 seconds?
Check the range/falloff of a 425mm rail and compare it to the range/falloff of a Megabeam.
Then check the respective damage modifiers and rates of fire, and throw in ship bonuses and damage types too. The point is, no one should be comparing or whining about different turret types, because they are, in fact, different. You should know the strengths and weaknesses of your chosen turret (or missile) type, and learn to use them to your advantage. Personally, I'd rather lasers have to not reload and have quick changes of crystal types than have them deal explosive damage.
----
And so the hunter becomes the hunted. . . |
Straube
|
Posted - 2005.08.17 19:07:00 -
[19]
I have only seen the no-crystal-problem when the crystals were not stacked and I selected the same crystal from the list for two guns.
Therefor I always stack them back together whenever I got a little time between enemy range changes.
The crystal changing time for me is a lot less then the 10 sec wait on other weapons.
|
X'Alor
|
Posted - 2005.08.17 19:10:00 -
[20]
Best I found for myself
alternate cyrstal types of one above or below desired range and utilize the fall off range one way or another.
xray ultra xray ultra xray ultra
ultra infra ultra infra
infra standard infra standard
no issues at all that way, another neat off shoot of alternating is you are only needing to change 4 guns at a time instead of all 8 
another thing i found was unstacked crystals pick one from top of list and next pick from bottom of list but doesn't always work.
another little trick is activating and deactivating tracking puters
xray w/deactivated puter .... instead of dropping to ultra for added range ..... simply shut all guns off, activate puter, reactivate all guns. now you got xray damage ultra range.(not quite but helps)vice versa for decreasing range ..... don't forget to deactivate and reactivate guns tho.
A combination of puter/gun activation/deactivation and alternating crystals gives quite a varied set of ranges.
And the coolest part, alternating any ammo like that is fair for everyone. 
|
CptEagle
|
Posted - 2005.08.17 19:14:00 -
[21]
Originally by: danneh
Originally by: CptEagle
2 facts here:
2. With decent skills lasers use less cap then hybrids.
But we are giving up a bonus to use less cap, how about the megathron loses its dmg bonus for the apocs bonus?.
But the Megathron needs bonusses or its guns suck ass.
|
Porro
|
Posted - 2005.08.17 19:22:00 -
[22]
Hybrids use cap, with the cap bonus you get to laser usage it works out about even. Also rail users use AM mostly,(highest cap ammo) while laser users can flick through ranges so its a double edged sword.
|
Shadowsword
|
Posted - 2005.08.17 19:34:00 -
[23]
Originally by: CptEagle
2 facts here:
1. Lasers have crappy fall-off so they need to change crystals much more often.
2. With decent skills lasers use less cap then hybrids.
IMO crystals should degrade.
1. Agreed.
2. yeah, I guess Amarr BS V for large crystals can be considered "decent". 
T2 and faction crystals should degrade. T1 crystals are fine.
|
Meridius
|
Posted - 2005.08.17 19:38:00 -
[24]
Hybrids use too much cap anyway.
There cap use should be in the middle of projectile/laser cap use. It's much closer to laser end then it should be...
________________________________________________________
|
Meridius
|
Posted - 2005.08.17 19:41:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Shadowsword
T2 and faction crystals should degrade. .
Yeah and they should drop in stacks of 8 as well.
It would be nice if small crystals dropped in stacks of 4, medium in stacks of 6 and large in stacks of 8.
Then have them degrade...
________________________________________________________
|
Shadowsword
|
Posted - 2005.08.17 19:51:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Meridius
Originally by: Shadowsword
T2 and faction crystals should degrade. .
Yeah and they should drop in stacks of 8 as well.
It would be nice if small crystals dropped in stacks of 4, medium in stacks of 6 and large in stacks of 8.
Then have them degrade...
So long that you can fire at least 4000 times with one, and that they aren't so rare as to make them completely overpriced, I'm fine with the fact that it boost only one gun.
|
Liu Bei
|
Posted - 2005.08.17 20:02:00 -
[27]
Another thread whining about lasers. Move along already.
Work is the curse of the drinking class - Oscar Wilde |
Meridius
|
Posted - 2005.08.17 20:15:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Shadowsword
So long that you can fire at least 4000 times with one, and that they aren't so rare as to make them completely overpriced, I'm fine with the fact that it boost only one gun.
Well lets see, afaik, not one faction MF/AM/EMP has dropped yet.
The lucky bastard who gets a faction EMP/AM drop boosts all his weapons. The poor sod who gets a faction MF boosts only 1/8th of his weapons. Ohh but yay, his stupid ass crystal lasts 4 times longer then ammo.
Lets see, lasting 4 times longer while only affecting 1/8th his dmg output. If hes lucky, he'll get a full set before EVE II comes out
________________________________________________________
|
Gariuys
|
Posted - 2005.08.17 20:19:00 -
[29]
Yeah you can boost all your weapons for about 10 nanoseconds a.k.a. a volley or 2. But if you really think that's such a huge problem, let's see, faction ammo drops in stacks of 1000 right? 1000 shots. 1000/8. K how about large faction crystals drop in stacks of 8, with 125 shots..... NO? Thought so.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
nahtoh
|
Posted - 2005.08.17 20:46:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Meridius
Originally by: Gariuys
Yeah you can boost all your weapons for about 10 nanoseconds a.k.a. a volley or 2. But if you really think that's such a huge problem, let's see, faction ammo drops in stacks of 1000 right? 1000 shots. 1000/8. K how about large faction crystals drop in stacks of 8, with 125 shots..... NO? Thought so.
Crystals are not suppose to work like ammo, duh?
Right now, faction ammo works like it always has while crystals have been 'nerfed' with degradation.
You really are not taking into account how freaking long it would take to actually get a full set of faction MF crystals. You need to get that drop 8 freaking times while an AM/EMP user will only have to get 1.
Thats a massive difference.
Then louse the massive cargo bay then...Oh and while thay are at it have the t1 crystals degrade.
"I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but
why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the
problem solve itself" (credits to mcallister TCS)
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |