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Changing Crystals - Unfair?

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HybridMiner	Posted - 2005.08.17 20:59:00 - [31] You could also think of it from a RP sort of way ;) Which would be easier - packing in 40 rounds of ammunation or quickly sliding in a single crystal.
Seth Killbain	Posted - 2005.08.17 20:59:00 - [32] Edited by: Seth Killbain on 17/08/2005 20:58:43 From my impression crappy falloff isnt really a good argument. Your tracking is superior up to optimal anyway, and from your ship to optimal you will get good hits as long as you can track fast enough.
Trelennen	Posted - 2005.08.17 21:26:00 - [33] Yeah, while we're at it, let's have all weapons work the same and deal the exact same damage, having the same chances to hit, the same range, etc. And let's have all ships having the same fitting and same bonuses between races... Oh, and let's have only one race and only one ship per category... Why do you guys want to make this game poor when it's rich in content? Difference doesn't mean unbalance, but no difference mean boredom... Don't forget either that laser do only EM/Thermal damage...
Gariuys	Posted - 2005.08.17 21:33:00 - [34] Originally by: Meridius Originally by: Gariuys Yeah you can boost all your weapons for about 10 nanoseconds a.k.a. a volley or 2. But if you really think that's such a huge problem, let's see, faction ammo drops in stacks of 1000 right? 1000 shots. 1000/8. K how about large faction crystals drop in stacks of 8, with 125 shots..... NO? Thought so. Crystals are not suppose to work like ammo, duh? Right now, faction ammo works like it always has while crystals have been 'nerfed' with degradation. You really are not taking into account how freaking long it would take to actually get a full set of faction MF crystals. You need to get that drop 8 freaking times while an AM/EMP user will only have to get 1. Thats a massive difference. And those 8 freaking times, have the potential to last you a lifetime... if they didn't degrade. 8 freaking drops off other faction ammo, has the potential to last you a week, if you don't waste it. I'd say 4000 shots is pretty damn good for a single drop, and it takes the fact that you can only use it in 1 turret at a time nicely into account. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
slapp	Posted - 2005.08.18 03:05:00 - [35] X Elor: now, i am not much of a laser user (small laser spec and medium ones...large are a no-no)...but i know one thing. when this occurs you click the "reload" button. as a dedicated laser user you SHOULD know it, right? __________________________________________________ CAREBEAR, n. A member of a large and powerful tribe whose influence in CCP affairs has always been dominant and controling.
Spy4Hire	Posted - 2005.08.18 03:30:00 - [36] Originally by: X'Alor Originally by: Lig Lira So lasers users don't need ammo, so what? But why can they change ammo instantly, where it takes projectile, hybrid and missile users 10 seconds? I must ask, "when was the last time you personally used any lasers and actually tried to change crystals in space?" Cuz if you had you would not have posted this at all and know about the Not so new crystal changing "feature". To set record straight WE CAN'T instantly change like you say any longer and we haven't been able to for a long time now ....like 3 monthes or so. Just so all you worry warts know. When we change a crystal now it does change relatively quickly BUT the gun pulses while the change is in process just like your guns pulse when you hit relaod button. If we click the next gun and change to the same range crystal as we just changed while the previous gun is still pulsing, it pulls the crystal from the first change and installs it into the second gun if we do so while first gun is still flashing....... that means first gun is crystal less and will NOT FIRE. Lets say your changing all to xray crystals. if the crystal gets pulled from first change and installed in second gun the first gun still thinks it has an xray crystal in it but it is empty and will not fire. so to get aan xray into that gun, you right click gun, look for xray but it aint there cuz the gun thinks it's already in there. so now you gotta do a second change on that first gun to any other crystal and then change it a third time back to xray. Actually, all you have to do is r-click and select 'reload', it will grab another crystal of that type from the hold and place it in the weapon. Also, if you religeously 'stack all' in cargo you won't have that problem at all.
Malken	Posted - 2005.08.18 03:48:00 - [37] why do people whine about crystals when there are bigger downside to combat then crystals. namely the max range you can target jam someone versus the maximum range people can shoot from. atm that is a very much bigger discrepancy then crystals. people can shoot from 200+k out but they cannot be target jammed out there either. quit crying about beams they are just fine.
Repossessed	Posted - 2005.08.18 04:10:00 - [38] Yes to seeing laser usings having to take time to change crystals. And they complain about Faction and T2 ammo degrading. Well, let's compare your T2 crystals to my T2 missles.... wait, there are no T2 missles. bummer Well, let's compare Faction crystals to Faction missles. Wait, there are no faction missles. double bummer So you are complaining about laser reload time. Wait, all types of turrets and launchers have reload time, 10 secs per launcher/turret. Why do I hear whining? Go to your corner now, bad children. lol All sarcasm aside, do laser users really have it that bad? Flying at the speed of sound....... "Coldplay" If I want your opinion, I'll get it at missle point.....
Hamatitio	Posted - 2005.08.18 07:06:00 - [39] Originally by: HybridMiner You could also think of it from a RP sort of way ;) Which would be easier - packing in 40 rounds of ammunation or quickly sliding in a single crystal. From an RP stand point, I would rig something in my ship to automatically sort the ammo into stacks of 40, and when I need a range change, I push a button, or, since we are in pods, think about it, and move that ammo out, quickly grab another one, and shove it in, in far under 10 seconds. And why do projectiles get more ammo capacity for longer range ammo? The charge needs more "blasting powder of the future" to go that far, so they are..smaller? and thus able to fit more? RP is bs! Lasers are overpowered n'stuff. ------ Ham a Tee Tee Oh
Skylar Keenan	Posted - 2005.08.18 11:56:00 - [40] Originally by: Gariuys And those 8 freaking times, have the potential to last you a lifetime... if they didn't degrade. 8 freaking drops off other faction ammo, has the potential to last you a week, if you don't waste it. I won't even try to describe to you how retarded that commment was. "the potential to last you a lifetime" - Fact of the matter is that they WILL NOT last you a lifetime, cause as you stated yourself (d'oh) actually DO degrade. So why even say some BS like that ? And for availability - all those with a full rack of MF faction crystals, raise your hand (a full rack can mean 1 small T2 MF if that's how you fly your ship ) Noone ? That's what I thought. Oh, one more thing. Ammo will last you 1000 shots, and gives you 10% bonus to damage. That means (if you have 8 turrets) 125 salvos with 10% damage modifier. On the other hand we have the crystals. Laser user finds a crystal and loads it up. He now has a (once again lets assume 8 turrets) 1.25% damage bonus for the next 4000 shots. Chances are that he'll have been shot, podded and crucified before he finds another one. I know which one I'd rahter have. Reasonable supply that lasts a short time, or none at all
Sun Ra	Posted - 2005.08.18 12:37:00 - [41] cba to read all but ppl moaning bout the crystal change bug it happens cos u picked the same crystal twice, either pick from top then from bottom ont he list hen top again... or just stack ur crystals it wont bu jeez i dont even use lasers I think the reason behind the crystall chaneg speed is because laser have such low fall off you need to switch alot more than hybrid and proj users. We're coming for you
Muad 'dib	Posted - 2005.08.18 13:05:00 - [42] Sorry if this has been said already, i miss stuff occassionly I think crystals change fast cos the effective ranges of the ammos are much more narrow, where other ammos have a larger effective range so we can use the same ammo for longer if approching/running. But if CCP feel like changing all reloads from 10 seconds to instant, that OK with me
Alowishus	Posted - 2005.08.18 14:46:00 - [43] Changing crystals SUCKS. I always end up with a bunch of empty guns.
slip66	Posted - 2005.08.18 15:09:00 - [44] Originally by: Gariuys Originally by: Meridius Originally by: Gariuys You really are not taking into account how freaking long it would take to actually get a full set of faction MF crystals. You need to get that drop 8 freaking times while an AM/EMP user will only have to get 1. Thats a massive difference. And those 8 freaking times, have the potential to last you a lifetime... his point is, your never going to get it to drop 8x. Its near impossible to get a full set to even make it a issue.
Istvaan Shogaatsu	Posted - 2005.08.18 15:24:00 - [45] This thread is rife with people who do not use lasers, asking for lasers to be nerfed. I'd find it amusing if it weren't so tragic.
Meridius	Posted - 2005.08.18 15:32:00 - [46] Changing crystals is annoying compared to how it used to work but meh. Always keep your crystal stacked and you should be ok for the most part. If you change them too fast you'll end up with empty guns so pace yourself. ________________________________________________________
Jelosavich	Posted - 2005.08.18 15:42:00 - [47] Yeah... this is an "anti-laser" thread, where there are a bunch of people complaining about lasers and then telling laser users to quit whining. THERE ARE NO LASER USERS WHINING HERE. It's funny, that mob-mentality.
Vee Bot	Posted - 2005.08.18 15:50:00 - [48] Edited by: Vee Bot on 18/08/2005 15:52:45 Dont attack the non-laser users, tell them why your lasers are fine, at least they are adding to the discussion and not whining about who posts in the thread. -> We (laser users) have to change ammos alot to get the range right, it makes sense they change fast. ------------------ Remember that your Unique, like everyone else.
Apoll	Posted - 2005.08.18 16:27:00 - [49] Edited by: Apoll on 18/08/2005 16:28:24 Fair enough. You ask for a nerf. Then we have to ask for some modifications I believe most of the laser users want. a) Give us EXP damage or lower the EM/THE resists on all the other ships, minmatar ones especialy :) b) Lower the native guns cap needs down to blaster/railguns, take off our ship/skills cap bonuses and give us damage & rof bonuses. c) If the crystals degrade, do it so we can have the same costs as the ammo. A small crystal costs 20k. How much ammo S you get for 20k? And ofc we need bigger cargo bays to store them. d) Give us the same fall off, and new weapons for very short ranges and better tracking. e) Put more cap usage on Projectiles. It's so unfair. Then we can accept having 10s to change the crystals. And ofc fix the damn bugs when we change crystals, we need to do twice the job to change them.
3GG H34D	Posted - 2005.08.18 16:34:00 - [50] Originally by: Apoll Fair enough. You ask for a nerf. Then we have to ask for some modifications I believe most of the laser users want. a) Give us EXP damage or lower the EM/THE resists on all the other ships, minmatar ones especialy :) minm cant tank well, you can just outlast them. Originally by: Apoll b) Lower the native guns cap needs down to blaster/railguns, take off our ship/skills cap bonuses and give us damage & rof bonuses. then you drop dmg/rof on the guns stats Originally by: Apoll c) If the crystals degrade, do it so we can have the same costs as the ammo. A small crystal costs 20k. How much ammo S you get for 20k? And ofc we need bigger cargo bays to store them. you already have cargo bays that do not get even close to being filled. Originally by: Apoll d) Give us the same fall off, and new weapons for very short ranges and better tracking. Then you change to 10 second reload same as turret users Originally by: Apoll e) Put more cap usage on Projectiles. It's so unfair. They have very bad cap on their ships and suffer poor tankage. ========================================= Think u know 1337?, you dont know nuffink! Û_±ý+´Åõk*Áu/°÷_¸Ã=5ò@Q@Q@M_?ZåñIîbåÈT~p¶4y+ðÊ%£= p¶4ÀiÔmZã!À©ì¦:BãÌ6xi Ö
Khaldorn Murino	Posted - 2005.08.18 16:50:00 - [51] Edited by: Khaldorn Murino on 18/08/2005 16:50:10 Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu This thread is rife with people who do not use lasers, asking for lasers to be nerfed. I'd find it amusing if it weren't so tragic. Not that im agreeing with the rest of these people. But why would a laser user complain about a short reload time compared to other guns even if it was unbalanced? Shoot himself in the foot springs to mind. - Just a simple warrior.
Cosmic Dragon	Posted - 2005.08.18 16:55:00 - [52] have any of you anti laser users ever used lasers Lasers suffer from high accuracy penalties if target is out of optimal. they use a lot of cap. and they only do em/thermal damage [ the 2 highest tanked damage types in eve]. The only npc's that lasers work well against are amarr based ones like blood raiders. In PvP combat laseres are easy to tank against so if you had 2 roleplay corps one amarr and one some other race well you can guess who will have the hardest time killing Beauty Is In The Eye Of The Beer Holder!!!
Jelosavich	Posted - 2005.08.18 18:00:00 - [53] I use lasers and I have no problems with them or any other ships. They do more damage and use more cap than hybrid turrets, but turrets have a better range, use less PG, etc. I am fine with degrading crystals, it makes sense to me, just make it so a crystal costs about the same in isk/shot. (as far as mineral costs go)
Redwolf	Posted - 2005.08.18 18:59:00 - [54] Originally by: Cosmic Dragon In PvP combat laseres are easy to tank against so if you had 2 roleplay corps one amarr and one some other race well you can guess who will have the hardest time killing I get that everyday Plz nerf minmar assault resists. oh and while you nerf my lasers more, please fix pulses which were just so badly ruined by the last 'balance' that my ships cry when I fit them.
nahtoh	Posted - 2005.08.18 19:41:00 - [55] Originally by: Apoll Edited by: Apoll on 18/08/2005 16:28:24 Fair enough. You ask for a nerf. Then we have to ask for some modifications I believe most of the laser users want. a) Give us EXP damage or lower the EM/THE resists on all the other ships, minmatar ones especialy :) how many ships have a naturel EM shield res compared to not having it? Quote: b) Lower the native guns cap needs down to blaster/railguns, take off our ship/skills cap bonuses and give us damage & rof bonuses. accept massive reduction in the amout of shots cyrstals give you on a per gun amount (the longer range the much less you can get) and all cyrstals degrade Quote: c) If the crystals degrade, do it so we can have the same costs as the ammo. A small crystal costs 20k. How much ammo S you get for 20k? And ofc we need bigger cargo bays to store them. get real the apoc has the joint biggest cargo hold as it is... Quote: d) Give us the same fall off, and new weapons for very short ranges and better tracking. e) Put more cap usage on Projectiles. It's so unfair. Then we can accept having 10s to change the crystals. And ofc fix the damn bugs when we change crystals, we need to do twice the job to change them. Fix the reload bug fair enuff "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem solve itself" (credits to mcallister TCS)
HippoKing	Posted - 2005.08.18 21:36:00 - [56] the only prob with crystals atm imo is that they do not degrade - make them 4000 shots (or something similar) and cheaper the cargo holds are fine as they are - apoc has one a bigger cargo hold than the raven (just compare how many m3 of torps are needed compared to laser crystals) finally, i think that faction crystals should drop in stacks of 4 and each faction crystal should get 250 shots. the short crystal reload times would mean that small (when compared to normal crystals) numbers of shots would not be a problem. This way, a ship fitting 4 lasers need only find one drop, while a ship with 8 only need find 2 drops. obviously having 250shot faction crystals will increase the cargo capacity needed for ammo, but as i said before, i think NO apoc pilot has the right to whine about cargo space taken up by crystals
Guardian Alpha	Posted - 2005.08.19 03:17:00 - [57] Giving normal crystals a 'use period' or an 'amount of shots' will eliminate one of the primary reasons people enjoy lasers: No ammo required. And know why? The Amarr have always been ready for battles that take a long amount of time. They are not meant to outdamage the entire fleet so much as they are meant to outlast (out tank, out ammo) the other fleet through time. Once again, I feel giving crystals a limited use would be a horrible change for the Amarrian fleets. ------------
Redwolf	Posted - 2005.08.19 21:57:00 - [58] It's ccps policy of homogonizing all the weapons in the game, except of course projectiles which got a major boost last 'balance' yet still have to option to do all damages. Whilst missile also have this benefit they at least got dragged into the same sorta skill catagory as turrets, but the lower end ones pretty much suck hard, even on caldari ships. As for changing ammo instantly well, that's an unrealistic statement.
HippoKing	Posted - 2005.08.19 21:59:00 - [59] Originally by: Guardian Alpha The Amarr have always been ready for battles that take a long amount of time. They are not meant to outdamage the entire fleet hehe - NERF THE LASERS

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