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Lig Lira
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Posted - 2005.08.17 14:57:00 -
[1]
So lasers users don't need ammo, so what?
But why can they change ammo instantly, where it takes projectile, hybrid and missile users 10 seconds?
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Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2005.08.17 14:59:00 -
[2]
unfair? hardly. advantage? yes!
kthxbye
"We brake for nobody"
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Rodj Blake
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Posted - 2005.08.17 15:13:00 -
[3]
Lasers don't use ammo, true, but they do use cap.
The other thing to consider is that they have a smaller fall-off than hybrids and projectiles, which means that their damage is more range-sensitive. And that means that you need to change crystals more often.
Dolce et decorum est pro imperator mori |
Muddy FunkStar
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Posted - 2005.08.17 15:16:00 -
[4]
Amarr 4TW - always has been but shhhh and keep it under your hat, okay?
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X'Alor
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Posted - 2005.08.17 15:44:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Lig Lira
So lasers users don't need ammo, so what?
But why can they change ammo instantly, where it takes projectile, hybrid and missile users 10 seconds?
I must ask, "when was the last time you personally used any lasers and actually tried to change crystals in space?"
Cuz if you had you would not have posted this at all and know about the Not so new crystal changing "feature".
To set record straight WE CAN'T instantly change like you say any longer and we haven't been able to for a long time now ....like 3 monthes or so.
Just so all you worry warts know. When we change a crystal now it does change relatively quickly BUT the gun pulses while the change is in process just like your guns pulse when you hit relaod button. If we click the next gun and change to the same range crystal as we just changed while the previous gun is still pulsing, it pulls the crystal from the first change and installs it into the second gun if we do so while first gun is still flashing.......
that means first gun is crystal less and will NOT FIRE.
Lets say your changing all to xray crystals. if the crystal gets pulled from first change and installed in second gun the first gun still thinks it has an xray crystal in it but it is empty and will not fire.
so to get aan xray into that gun, you right click gun, look for xray but it aint there cuz the gun thinks it's already in there.
so now you gotta do a second change on that first gun to any other crystal and then change it a third time back to xray.
and if you do that third change back to xray and happen to try and change third gun crystal too fast it will empty it again and that first gun you'll have to do 5 changes just to get an xray in.
Ammo changes for you pull from a pile, ammo changes for lasers pulls the top crystal and if you do it to fast to next gun it still pulls first crystal and bugs the gun till you swap out an invisible non existant crystal with another and change back to what should have been in there.
so move along and come up with a new hey this aint fair thread.
What's not fair about it is the laser gun gets bugged out and WILL NOT FIRE IF YOU DO IT TOO FAST NOW and a ammo gun will not bug at all.
good'ay
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Dayon
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Posted - 2005.08.17 15:45:00 -
[6]
well because of the crappy bug with crystals don't chance sometimes and apear emethy and need to be change again it does not give too much of an advantage. Btw try looking at lasers fall-off range they are much smaller then the other races so we need to change ammo type more often then other races.
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Bruchpilot
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Posted - 2005.08.17 17:34:00 -
[7]
I didn't use lasers for quite a long time now but wouldn't stack items help? It helps with projectiles/hybrids...
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Muntz
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Posted - 2005.08.17 17:43:00 -
[8]
No, stacking doesn't really help. As soon as you change a crystal, it takes the whole stack away for about a second, then puts it back minus one crystal. I helps avoid the competition between lasers for the same crystal, but it doesn't hasten the process. In short it's a pain in the arse, and it's only viable if you've got 2 or 3 lasers, or in between fights.
Try it, you'll understand immediately.
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xenorx
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Posted - 2005.08.17 17:46:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Bruchpilot
I didn't use lasers for quite a long time now but wouldn't stack items help? It helps with projectiles/hybrids...
Nope it doesnt help to have them stacked or unstacked. The gun will jam either way. It is quite frustrating to have to switch crystals and wait for each gun to fully load before you can load the next gun. I havent timed it but I would not be surprised to find that a full crystal change to 4 or more turrets takes longer than any other ammo type overall. Not sure if it is a bug or a feature but that is the way it is.
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Nafri
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Posted - 2005.08.17 18:10:00 -
[10]
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=213144&page=4
Your bla bla hit bla bla for bla bla damage. Wanna have some bubu now? |
Meridius
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Posted - 2005.08.17 18:11:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Lig Lira
But why can they change ammo instantly, where it takes projectile, hybrid and missile users 10 seconds?
Check the range/falloff of a 425mm rail and compare it to the range/falloff of a Megabeam.
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Jelosavich
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Posted - 2005.08.17 18:39:00 -
[12]
um.... If you stack the crystals it works just fine, I was just doing a bunch with it yesterday, and no crystals got switched. As for the crystals being taken out and put in another gun, you can go to that first gun and hit reload and it will take one from cargo. Still annoying when it happens, but not nearly as bad as you say.
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Nyphur
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Posted - 2005.08.17 18:42:00 -
[13]
Soemthing people tend to forget is that "different" does not mean "unbalanced". Lasers switch crystals instantly and don't use ammo but that doesn't make them unbalanced, just different than other weapons. If the weapons were all the same, it'd be pretty boring.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.08.17 18:53:00 -
[14]
"To set record straight WE CAN'T instantly change like you say any longer and we haven't been able to for a long time now ....like 3 monthes or so.
Just so all you worry warts know. When we change a crystal now it does change relatively quickly BUT the gun pulses while the change is in process just like your guns pulse when you hit relaod button. If we click the next gun and change to the same range crystal as we just changed while the previous gun is still pulsing, it pulls the crystal from the first change and installs it into the second gun if we do so while first gun is still flashing......."
It takes literally 1-2 secs for that crystal to switch, which is typically about the same time it takes to right-click the next gun in the row, wait for the menu to load, put your mouse over the crystal and left-click to have it loaded... meaning hardly any practical delay when switching multiple crystals. So yes, less than 2 secs _tops_ is indeed "relatively quickly" when compared to 10 secs it takes to swich other types of ammo...
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CptEagle
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Posted - 2005.08.17 18:54:00 -
[15]
2 facts here:
1. Lasers have crappy fall-off so they need to change crystals much more often.
2. With decent skills lasers use less cap then hybrids.
IMO crystals should degrade.
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ExChange
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Posted - 2005.08.17 18:56:00 -
[16]
its weird... hybrids use lots of cap and ammo... but dont have an advantage in damage...
and how is it easier to move a massive 10m3 chrystal compared to hybrid charges that are reasonable small...
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danneh
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Posted - 2005.08.17 19:01:00 -
[17]
Originally by: CptEagle
2 facts here:
2. With decent skills lasers use less cap then hybrids.
But we are giving up a bonus to use less cap, how about the megathron loses its dmg bonus for the apocs bonus?.
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Richard Masterson
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Posted - 2005.08.17 19:02:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Meridius
Originally by: Lig Lira
But why can they change ammo instantly, where it takes projectile, hybrid and missile users 10 seconds?
Check the range/falloff of a 425mm rail and compare it to the range/falloff of a Megabeam.
Then check the respective damage modifiers and rates of fire, and throw in ship bonuses and damage types too. The point is, no one should be comparing or whining about different turret types, because they are, in fact, different. You should know the strengths and weaknesses of your chosen turret (or missile) type, and learn to use them to your advantage. Personally, I'd rather lasers have to not reload and have quick changes of crystal types than have them deal explosive damage.
----
And so the hunter becomes the hunted. . . |
Straube
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Posted - 2005.08.17 19:07:00 -
[19]
I have only seen the no-crystal-problem when the crystals were not stacked and I selected the same crystal from the list for two guns.
Therefor I always stack them back together whenever I got a little time between enemy range changes.
The crystal changing time for me is a lot less then the 10 sec wait on other weapons.
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X'Alor
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Posted - 2005.08.17 19:10:00 -
[20]
Best I found for myself
alternate cyrstal types of one above or below desired range and utilize the fall off range one way or another.
xray ultra xray ultra xray ultra
ultra infra ultra infra
infra standard infra standard
no issues at all that way, another neat off shoot of alternating is you are only needing to change 4 guns at a time instead of all 8 
another thing i found was unstacked crystals pick one from top of list and next pick from bottom of list but doesn't always work.
another little trick is activating and deactivating tracking puters
xray w/deactivated puter .... instead of dropping to ultra for added range ..... simply shut all guns off, activate puter, reactivate all guns. now you got xray damage ultra range.(not quite but helps)vice versa for decreasing range ..... don't forget to deactivate and reactivate guns tho.
A combination of puter/gun activation/deactivation and alternating crystals gives quite a varied set of ranges.
And the coolest part, alternating any ammo like that is fair for everyone. 
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CptEagle
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Posted - 2005.08.17 19:14:00 -
[21]
Originally by: danneh
Originally by: CptEagle
2 facts here:
2. With decent skills lasers use less cap then hybrids.
But we are giving up a bonus to use less cap, how about the megathron loses its dmg bonus for the apocs bonus?.
But the Megathron needs bonusses or its guns suck ass.
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Porro
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Posted - 2005.08.17 19:22:00 -
[22]
Hybrids use cap, with the cap bonus you get to laser usage it works out about even. Also rail users use AM mostly,(highest cap ammo) while laser users can flick through ranges so its a double edged sword.
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Shadowsword
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Posted - 2005.08.17 19:34:00 -
[23]
Originally by: CptEagle
2 facts here:
1. Lasers have crappy fall-off so they need to change crystals much more often.
2. With decent skills lasers use less cap then hybrids.
IMO crystals should degrade.
1. Agreed.
2. yeah, I guess Amarr BS V for large crystals can be considered "decent". 
T2 and faction crystals should degrade. T1 crystals are fine.
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.08.17 19:38:00 -
[24]
Hybrids use too much cap anyway.
There cap use should be in the middle of projectile/laser cap use. It's much closer to laser end then it should be...
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.08.17 19:41:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Shadowsword
T2 and faction crystals should degrade. .
Yeah and they should drop in stacks of 8 as well.
It would be nice if small crystals dropped in stacks of 4, medium in stacks of 6 and large in stacks of 8.
Then have them degrade...
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Shadowsword
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Posted - 2005.08.17 19:51:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Meridius
Originally by: Shadowsword
T2 and faction crystals should degrade. .
Yeah and they should drop in stacks of 8 as well.
It would be nice if small crystals dropped in stacks of 4, medium in stacks of 6 and large in stacks of 8.
Then have them degrade...
So long that you can fire at least 4000 times with one, and that they aren't so rare as to make them completely overpriced, I'm fine with the fact that it boost only one gun.
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Liu Bei
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Posted - 2005.08.17 20:02:00 -
[27]
Another thread whining about lasers. Move along already.
Work is the curse of the drinking class - Oscar Wilde |
Meridius
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Posted - 2005.08.17 20:15:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Shadowsword
So long that you can fire at least 4000 times with one, and that they aren't so rare as to make them completely overpriced, I'm fine with the fact that it boost only one gun.
Well lets see, afaik, not one faction MF/AM/EMP has dropped yet.
The lucky bastard who gets a faction EMP/AM drop boosts all his weapons. The poor sod who gets a faction MF boosts only 1/8th of his weapons. Ohh but yay, his stupid ass crystal lasts 4 times longer then ammo.
Lets see, lasting 4 times longer while only affecting 1/8th his dmg output. If hes lucky, he'll get a full set before EVE II comes out
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Gariuys
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Posted - 2005.08.17 20:19:00 -
[29]
Yeah you can boost all your weapons for about 10 nanoseconds a.k.a. a volley or 2. But if you really think that's such a huge problem, let's see, faction ammo drops in stacks of 1000 right? 1000 shots. 1000/8. K how about large faction crystals drop in stacks of 8, with 125 shots..... NO? Thought so.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
nahtoh
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Posted - 2005.08.17 20:46:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Meridius
Originally by: Gariuys
Yeah you can boost all your weapons for about 10 nanoseconds a.k.a. a volley or 2. But if you really think that's such a huge problem, let's see, faction ammo drops in stacks of 1000 right? 1000 shots. 1000/8. K how about large faction crystals drop in stacks of 8, with 125 shots..... NO? Thought so.
Crystals are not suppose to work like ammo, duh?
Right now, faction ammo works like it always has while crystals have been 'nerfed' with degradation.
You really are not taking into account how freaking long it would take to actually get a full set of faction MF crystals. You need to get that drop 8 freaking times while an AM/EMP user will only have to get 1.
Thats a massive difference.
Then louse the massive cargo bay then...Oh and while thay are at it have the t1 crystals degrade.
"I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but
why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the
problem solve itself" (credits to mcallister TCS)
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HybridMiner
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Posted - 2005.08.17 20:59:00 -
[31]
You could also think of it from a RP sort of way ;)
Which would be easier - packing in 40 rounds of ammunation or quickly sliding in a single crystal.
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Seth Killbain
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Posted - 2005.08.17 20:59:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Seth Killbain on 17/08/2005 20:58:43
From my impression crappy falloff isnt really a good argument.
Your tracking is superior up to optimal anyway, and from your ship to optimal you will get good hits as long as you can track fast enough.
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Trelennen
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Posted - 2005.08.17 21:26:00 -
[33]
Yeah, while we're at it, let's have all weapons work the same and deal the exact same damage, having the same chances to hit, the same range, etc. And let's have all ships having the same fitting and same bonuses between races...
Oh, and let's have only one race and only one ship per category... Why do you guys want to make this game poor when it's rich in content? Difference doesn't mean unbalance, but no difference mean boredom...
Don't forget either that laser do only EM/Thermal damage...
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Gariuys
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Posted - 2005.08.17 21:33:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Meridius
Originally by: Gariuys
Yeah you can boost all your weapons for about 10 nanoseconds a.k.a. a volley or 2. But if you really think that's such a huge problem, let's see, faction ammo drops in stacks of 1000 right? 1000 shots. 1000/8. K how about large faction crystals drop in stacks of 8, with 125 shots..... NO? Thought so.
Crystals are not suppose to work like ammo, duh?
Right now, faction ammo works like it always has while crystals have been 'nerfed' with degradation.
You really are not taking into account how freaking long it would take to actually get a full set of faction MF crystals. You need to get that drop 8 freaking times while an AM/EMP user will only have to get 1.
Thats a massive difference.
And those 8 freaking times, have the potential to last you a lifetime... if they didn't degrade. 8 freaking drops off other faction ammo, has the potential to last you a week, if you don't waste it.
I'd say 4000 shots is pretty damn good for a single drop, and it takes the fact that you can only use it in 1 turret at a time nicely into account.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
slapp
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Posted - 2005.08.18 03:05:00 -
[35]
X Elor:
now, i am not much of a laser user (small laser spec and medium
ones...large are a no-no)...but i know one thing. when this
occurs you click the "reload" button. as a dedicated laser
user you *SHOULD* know it, right?
__________________________________________________
CAREBEAR, n.
A member of a large and powerful tribe whose influence in CCP affairs has always been dominant and controling. |
Spy4Hire
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Posted - 2005.08.18 03:30:00 -
[36]
Originally by: X'Alor
Originally by: Lig Lira
So lasers users don't need ammo, so what?
But why can they change ammo instantly, where it takes projectile, hybrid and missile users 10 seconds?
I must ask, "when was the last time you personally used any lasers and actually tried to change crystals in space?"
Cuz if you had you would not have posted this at all and know about the Not so new crystal changing "feature".
To set record straight WE CAN'T instantly change like you say any longer and we haven't been able to for a long time now ....like 3 monthes or so.
Just so all you worry warts know. When we change a crystal now it does change relatively quickly BUT the gun pulses while the change is in process just like your guns pulse when you hit relaod button. If we click the next gun and change to the same range crystal as we just changed while the previous gun is still pulsing, it pulls the crystal from the first change and installs it into the second gun if we do so while first gun is still flashing.......
that means first gun is crystal less and will NOT FIRE.
Lets say your changing all to xray crystals. if the crystal gets pulled from first change and installed in second gun the first gun still thinks it has an xray crystal in it but it is empty and will not fire.
so to get aan xray into that gun, you right click gun, look for xray but it aint there cuz the gun thinks it's already in there.
so now you gotta do a second change on that first gun to any other crystal and then change it a third time back to xray.
Actually, all you have to do is r-click and select 'reload', it will grab another crystal of that type from the hold and place it in the weapon.
Also, if you religeously 'stack all' in cargo you won't have that problem at all.
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Malken
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Posted - 2005.08.18 03:48:00 -
[37]
why do people whine about crystals when there are bigger downside to combat then crystals.
namely the max range you can target jam someone versus the maximum range people can shoot from.
atm that is a very much bigger discrepancy then crystals.
people can shoot from 200+k out but they cannot be target jammed out there either.
quit crying about beams they are just fine.
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Repossessed
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Posted - 2005.08.18 04:10:00 -
[38]
Yes to seeing laser usings having to take time to change crystals. And they complain about Faction and T2 ammo degrading.
Well, let's compare your T2 crystals to my T2 missles....
wait, there are no T2 missles. bummer
Well, let's compare Faction crystals to Faction missles.
Wait, there are no faction missles. double bummer
So you are complaining about laser reload time. Wait, all types of turrets and launchers have reload time, 10 secs per launcher/turret.
Why do I hear whining? Go to your corner now, bad children.
lol
All sarcasm aside, do laser users really have it that bad?
Flying at the speed of sound.......
"Coldplay"
If I want your opinion, I'll get it at missle point.....
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Hamatitio
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Posted - 2005.08.18 07:06:00 -
[39]
Originally by: HybridMiner
You could also think of it from a RP sort of way ;)
Which would be easier - packing in 40 rounds of ammunation or quickly sliding in a single crystal.
From an RP stand point, I would rig something in my ship to automatically sort the ammo into stacks of 40, and when I need a range change, I push a button, or, since we are in pods, think about it, and move that ammo out, quickly grab another one, and shove it in, in far under 10 seconds.
And why do projectiles get more ammo capacity for longer range ammo? The charge needs more "blasting powder of the future" to go that far, so they are..smaller? and thus able to fit more?
RP is bs!
Lasers are overpowered n'stuff.
------
Ham a Tee Tee Oh |
Skylar Keenan
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Posted - 2005.08.18 11:56:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Gariuys
And those 8 freaking times, have the potential to last you a lifetime... if they didn't degrade. 8 freaking drops off other faction ammo, has the potential to last you a week, if you don't waste it.
I won't even try to describe to you how retarded that commment was. "the potential to last you a lifetime" - Fact of the matter is that they WILL NOT last you a lifetime, cause as you stated yourself (d'oh) actually DO degrade. So why even say some BS like that ?
And for availability - all those with a full rack of MF faction crystals, raise your hand (a full rack can mean 1 small T2 MF if that's how you fly your ship  ) Noone ? That's what I thought.
Oh, one more thing. Ammo will last you 1000 shots, and gives you 10% bonus to damage. That means (if you have 8 turrets) 125 salvos with 10% damage modifier. On the other hand we have the crystals.
Laser user finds a crystal and loads it up. He now has a (once again lets assume 8 turrets) 1.25% damage bonus for the next 4000 shots. Chances are that he'll have been shot, podded and crucified before he finds another one.
I know which one I'd rahter have. Reasonable supply that lasts a short time, or none at all
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Sun Ra
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Posted - 2005.08.18 12:37:00 -
[41]
cba to read all but ppl moaning bout the crystal change bug it happens cos u picked the same crystal twice, either pick from top then from bottom ont he list hen top again... or just stack ur crystals it wont bu
jeez i dont even use lasers
I *think* the reason behind the crystall chaneg speed is because laser have such low fall off you need to switch alot more than hybrid and proj users.
We're coming for you |
Muad 'dib
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Posted - 2005.08.18 13:05:00 -
[42]
Sorry if this has been said already, i miss stuff occassionly 
I think crystals change fast cos the effective ranges of the ammos are much more narrow, where other ammos have a larger effective range so we can use the same ammo for longer if approching/running.
But if CCP feel like changing all reloads from 10 seconds to instant, that OK with me
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Alowishus
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Posted - 2005.08.18 14:46:00 -
[43]
Changing crystals SUCKS. I always end up with a bunch of empty guns.
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slip66
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Posted - 2005.08.18 15:09:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Gariuys
Originally by: Meridius
Originally by: Gariuys
You really are not taking into account how freaking long it would take to actually get a full set of faction MF crystals. You need to get that drop 8 freaking times while an AM/EMP user will only have to get 1.
Thats a massive difference.
And those 8 freaking times, have the potential to last you a lifetime...
his point is, your never going to get it to drop 8x. Its near impossible to get a full set to even make it a issue.
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
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Posted - 2005.08.18 15:24:00 -
[45]
This thread is rife with people who do not use lasers, asking for lasers to be nerfed. I'd find it amusing if it weren't so tragic.
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.08.18 15:32:00 -
[46]
Changing crystals is annoying compared to how it used to work but meh.
Always keep your crystal stacked and you should be ok for the most part. If you change them too fast you'll end up with empty guns so pace yourself.
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Jelosavich
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Posted - 2005.08.18 15:42:00 -
[47]
Yeah... this is an "anti-laser" thread, where there are a bunch of people complaining about lasers and then telling laser users to quit whining. THERE ARE NO LASER USERS WHINING HERE. It's funny, that mob-mentality.
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Vee Bot
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Posted - 2005.08.18 15:50:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Vee Bot on 18/08/2005 15:52:45
Dont attack the non-laser users, tell them why your lasers are fine, at least they are adding to the discussion and not whining about who posts in the thread.
-> We (laser users) have to change ammos alot to get the range right, it makes sense they change fast.
------------------
Remember that your Unique, like everyone else. |
Apoll
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Posted - 2005.08.18 16:27:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Apoll on 18/08/2005 16:28:24
Fair enough. You ask for a nerf. Then we have to ask for some modifications I believe most of the laser users want.
a) Give us EXP damage or lower the EM/THE resists on all the other ships, minmatar ones especialy :)
b) Lower the native guns cap needs down to blaster/railguns, take off our ship/skills cap bonuses and give us damage & rof bonuses.
c) If the crystals degrade, do it so we can have the same costs as the ammo. A small crystal costs 20k. How much ammo S you get for 20k? And ofc we need bigger cargo bays to store them.
d) Give us the same fall off, and new weapons for very short ranges and better tracking.
e) Put more cap usage on Projectiles. It's so unfair.
Then we can accept having 10s to change the crystals. And ofc fix the damn bugs when we change crystals, we need to do twice the job to change them.
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3GG H34D
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Posted - 2005.08.18 16:34:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Apoll
Fair enough. You ask for a nerf. Then we have to ask for some modifications I believe most of the laser users want.
a) Give us EXP damage or lower the EM/THE resists on all the other ships, minmatar ones especialy :)
minm cant tank well, you can just outlast them.
Originally by: Apoll
b) Lower the native guns cap needs down to blaster/railguns, take off our ship/skills cap bonuses and give us damage & rof bonuses.
then you drop dmg/rof on the guns stats
Originally by: Apoll
c) If the crystals degrade, do it so we can have the same costs as the ammo. A small crystal costs 20k. How much ammo S you get for 20k? And ofc we need bigger cargo bays to store them.
you already have cargo bays that do not get even close to being filled.
Originally by: Apoll
d) Give us the same fall off, and new weapons for very short ranges and better tracking.
Then you change to 10 second reload same as turret users
Originally by: Apoll
e) Put more cap usage on Projectiles. It's so unfair.
They have very bad cap on their ships and suffer poor tankage.
=========================================
Think u know 1337?, you dont know nuffink!
Û_±ý+´Åõk*Áu/°÷_¸Ã=5ò@Q@Q@M_?ZåñIîbåÈT~p¶4y+ðÊ% £= p¶4ÀiÔmZã!À©ì¦:BãÌ6xi Ö |
Khaldorn Murino
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Posted - 2005.08.18 16:50:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Khaldorn Murino on 18/08/2005 16:50:10
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
This thread is rife with people who do not use lasers, asking for lasers to be nerfed. I'd find it amusing if it weren't so tragic.
Not that im agreeing with the rest of these people. But why would a laser user complain about a short reload time compared to other guns even if it was unbalanced?
Shoot himself in the foot springs to mind.
-
Just a simple warrior.
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Cosmic Dragon
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Posted - 2005.08.18 16:55:00 -
[52]
have any of you anti laser users ever used lasers
Lasers suffer from high accuracy penalties if target is out of optimal.
they use a lot of cap.
and they only do em/thermal damage [ the 2 highest tanked damage types in eve].
The only npc's that lasers work well against are amarr based ones like blood raiders.
In PvP combat laseres are easy to tank against so if you had 2 roleplay corps one amarr and one some other race well you can guess who will have the hardest time killing
Beauty Is In The Eye Of The Beer Holder!!! |
Jelosavich
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Posted - 2005.08.18 18:00:00 -
[53]
I use lasers and I have no problems with them or any other ships. They do more damage and use more cap than hybrid turrets, but turrets have a better range, use less PG, etc. I am fine with degrading crystals, it makes sense to me, just make it so a crystal costs about the same in isk/shot. (as far as mineral costs go)
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Redwolf
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Posted - 2005.08.18 18:59:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Cosmic Dragon
In PvP combat laseres are easy to tank against so if you had 2 roleplay corps one amarr and one some other race well you can guess who will have the hardest time killing
I get that everyday
Plz nerf minmar assault resists. 
oh and while you nerf my lasers more, please fix pulses which were just so badly ruined by the last 'balance' that my ships cry when I fit them.
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nahtoh
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Posted - 2005.08.18 19:41:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Apoll
Edited by: Apoll on 18/08/2005 16:28:24
Fair enough. You ask for a nerf. Then we have to ask for some modifications I believe most of the laser users want.
a) Give us EXP damage or lower the EM/THE resists on all the other ships, minmatar ones especialy :)
how many ships have a naturel EM shield res compared to not having it?
Quote:
b) Lower the native guns cap needs down to blaster/railguns, take off our ship/skills cap bonuses and give us damage & rof bonuses.
accept massive reduction in the amout of shots cyrstals give you on a per gun amount (the longer range the much less you can get) and all cyrstals degrade Quote:
c) If the crystals degrade, do it so we can have the same costs as the ammo. A small crystal costs 20k. How much ammo S you get for 20k? And ofc we need bigger cargo bays to store them.
get real the apoc has the joint biggest cargo hold as it is...
Quote:
d) Give us the same fall off, and new weapons for very short ranges and better tracking.
e) Put more cap usage on Projectiles. It's so unfair.
Then we can accept having 10s to change the crystals. And ofc fix the damn bugs when we change crystals, we need to do twice the job to change them.
Fix the reload bug fair enuff
"I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but
why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the
problem solve itself" (credits to mcallister TCS)
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2005.08.18 21:36:00 -
[56]
the only prob with crystals atm imo is that they do not degrade - make them 4000 shots (or something similar) and cheaper
the cargo holds are fine as they are - apoc has one a bigger cargo hold than the raven (just compare how many m3 of torps are needed compared to laser crystals)
finally, i think that faction crystals should drop in stacks of 4 and each faction crystal should get 250 shots. the short crystal reload times would mean that small (when compared to normal crystals) numbers of shots would not be a problem. This way, a ship fitting 4 lasers need only find one drop, while a ship with 8 only need find 2 drops.
obviously having 250shot faction crystals will increase the cargo capacity needed for ammo, but as i said before, i think NO apoc pilot has the right to whine about cargo space taken up by crystals
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Guardian Alpha
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Posted - 2005.08.19 03:17:00 -
[57]
Giving normal crystals a 'use period' or an 'amount of shots' will eliminate one of the primary reasons people enjoy lasers:
No ammo required.
And know why? The Amarr have always been ready for battles that take a long amount of time. They are not meant to outdamage the entire fleet so much as they are meant to outlast (out tank, out ammo) the other fleet through time. Once again, I feel giving crystals a limited use would be a horrible change for the Amarrian fleets.
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Redwolf
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Posted - 2005.08.19 21:57:00 -
[58]
It's ccps policy of homogonizing all the weapons in the game, except of course projectiles which got a major boost last 'balance' yet still have to option to do all damages. Whilst missile also have this benefit they at least got dragged into the same sorta skill catagory as turrets, but the lower end ones pretty much suck hard, even on caldari ships.
As for changing ammo instantly well, that's an unrealistic statement.
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2005.08.19 21:59:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Guardian Alpha
The Amarr have always been ready for battles that take a long amount of time. They are not meant to outdamage the entire fleet
hehe - NERF THE LASERS 
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