| Pages: [1] :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |

Songbird
77
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 18:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
I suggest a new module - high slot, activating it hooks up your sentry drones to your ship and they move whenever you move.
Right now the problem with any drone ship is the vulnerability of it's drones. Whether you send them to die up close and personal or you drop them and run to save your ass a drone ship has no choice but to lose it's "turrets".
The module will let you drag your "turrets" with you, like any other normal ship - in short you will be able to move and shoot and at the same time won't be anchored to a point in space.
Just for the sake of balance every module you hook up could give you 2-3% drop in ship speed . If it's 10-15% for 5 drones I would still use it. |

Illia Vuilleurmier
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
10
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 20:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
Of course you'd use it at 10-15% speed drawback, everyone would.
The very point of sentries is to be motionless, and vulnerable if you don't accept the risk of staying yourself close to them. |

Callic Veratar
Power of the Phoenix
342
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 21:02:00 -
[3] - Quote
They've got something like this already. It's called 1200mm Artillery. DirectX 11, it's not rocket appliance! |

Montevius Williams
Eclipse Industrial Inc
422
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 21:04:00 -
[4] - Quote
I agree. Drone boats need something to make them feel like Drone boats. Drone boats should come equiped with Drone repair bays with repair bonuses per level.
"The American Government indoctrination system known as public education has been relentlessly churning out socialists for over 20 years". - TravisWB |

CMD Ishikawa
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2013.03.12 02:53:00 -
[5] - Quote
''Drone repair bay'' sunds really good or may be the possibility of taking drones from cargo bay into drone bay and back, perhaps with some time penaltie like if you are ''moving'' them from one bay to another. |

DataRunner Attor
Independent Confederacy of Worlds
14
|
Posted - 2013.03.12 03:01:00 -
[6] - Quote
CMD Ishikawa wrote:''Drone repair bay'' sunds really good or may be the possibility of taking drones from cargo bay into drone bay and back, perhaps with some time penaltie like if you are ''moving'' them from one bay to another.
they use to do that...only...We kinda ran into this problem where drone boats would spawn more drones then people's ability to store ammo on their ships... |

Ayla Crenshaw
Polish Immortals
0
|
Posted - 2013.03.13 07:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
Montevius Williams wrote:I agree. Drone boats need something to make them feel like Drone boats. Drone boats should come equiped with Drone repair bays with repair bonuses per level.
You want drones repped out in space, fit a Remote Armor Repair System.
As for the general idea, as was already stated, the main drawback of the sentry drones is their immobility. One idea I saw about this and could support is an option to quickly stow them into the cargo (not drone) bay from afar. |

Montevius Williams
Eclipse Industrial Inc
423
|
Posted - 2013.03.13 17:31:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ayla Crenshaw wrote:Montevius Williams wrote:I agree. Drone boats need something to make them feel like Drone boats. Drone boats should come equiped with Drone repair bays with repair bonuses per level.
You want drones repped out in space, fit a Remote Armor Repair System. As for the general idea, as was already stated, the main drawback of the sentry drones is their immobility. One idea I saw about this and could support is an option to quickly stow them into the cargo (not drone) bay from afar.
This would not make drone boats feel unique at all. I can do that with any ship. The idea is to give dedicated drone boats something to make them effective drone boats. Only drone pilots have to worry about their dps suffering because of destroyed weapon platforms. We cant nanite repair drones. We cant overheat drones for more damage. If I have 5 larges and I need to repair them, that means
- I have to call them back to ship - lost dps -I have to repair (this means that whichever drones are being repaired is not giving out dps - lost dps -while its being repaired, I cant launch another ship if 5 are in space already. Again, loss of dps
Meanwhile, Joe Schmoo is blasting away with his turrets not having to worry about any of this because his main dps mechanic doesnt need to be repaired during afight unless he overheats his turrets (something drone pilots cant do with drones).
There is no logical reason as to why we cant let dedicated drone boats have the ability to repair their drones in the drone bay either through
-Ship role -Module -Rig
This is especially true with the ship rebalancing that CCP has been doing.
"The American Government indoctrination system known as public education has been relentlessly churning out socialists for over 20 years". - TravisWB |

Drake Doe
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
75
|
Posted - 2013.03.13 18:22:00 -
[9] - Quote
DataRunner Attor wrote:CMD Ishikawa wrote:''Drone repair bay'' sunds really good or may be the possibility of taking drones from cargo bay into drone bay and back, perhaps with some time penaltie like if you are ''moving'' them from one bay to another. they use to do that...only...We kinda ran into this problem where drone boats would spawn more drones then people's ability to store ammo on their ships... Which wouldn't be that bad considering no other form of dps can be completely removed |

Radhe Amatin
Caldari High Prime P R I M E
8
|
Posted - 2013.03.14 11:48:00 -
[10] - Quote
Ayla Crenshaw wrote:Montevius Williams wrote:I agree. Drone boats need something to make them feel like Drone boats. Drone boats should come equiped with Drone repair bays with repair bonuses per level.
You want drones repped out in space, fit a Remote Armor Repair System. As for the general idea, as was already stated, the main drawback of the sentry drones is their immobility. One idea I saw about this and could support is an option to quickly stow them into the cargo (not drone) bay from afar.
i`ll like to see u repair drones in combat with that Remote Armor repair...considering it has some crap range. That remote repair is only useful in between fights. So a module for repairing drones for drone boats its not so insane as u make it to be. |

Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
105
|
Posted - 2013.03.14 18:01:00 -
[11] - Quote
Drones should just have Local Rep for Armor and Hull.
As an Alternative, Maintenence Bots could auto repair damaged drones in the dronebay, and they could give us some structure maintenence bots. Give us a choice on how to use up some of that spare dronebay space in a meaningful way.
Drones just need reworking. They appear to have been intended as a secondary weapons system, but for a small but growing selection of ships they are in fact the primary if not only weapon system. With the new ship balancing adding to the drone ship line up and new destroyers based on drones, combined with the fact that drone bonused ships lose a mod slot to the drone dedication the time has come to revisit drones from the ground up. Their AI is wonky and clunky, they are too vunerable, Ewar drones are nearly useless except for the ECM ones, and that only due to blind luck.
With the recent AI change making NPCs eat them like candy I just mothballed my beloved Navy Dominix (Ogre's Lair) and bought a Kronos for an overal easier time doing most missions.
However, I can tell you from long experience that despite the prevailing common wisdom of Sentries being the best drones, this is only true on either extreme of the skill and equipment dedication spectrum. For ships that have bays but no bonuses, especially larger ships, light drones are your best choice. I get a bit over 90 dps from 5 lights, which is plenty to deal with mission frigates and will eat most cruisers without too much difficulty. With lower skills, the only point to drones for most ships is a little extra dps and frigate control. Lights have enough speed that travel time isn't much of an issue in their intended role, and their tracking beats the living dog snot out of a sentry any day. It's not until you are into T2 sentries and maxxed out support skills that they start becoming a good idea on a ship with limited bay space.
On Larger ships you still get better DPS out of Heavies unless you start dedicating rigs to the sentry damage. Travel time becomes an issue, but on a non-dedicated ship (which almost certainly does not have the damage rigs) with limited bay space I have found that Heavies are more useful because they can still hit all but the fastest unwebbed frigates with enough reliability to be effective frigate control (Damn spider drones are an exception) and still put good DPS on larger ships. Sentries are good for the larger ships and don't lose DPS to travel time, but if you don't get all the frigates and even some cruisers on the way in, they will have a much harder time delivering their damage to those smaller hulls. Before giving up on drones as a primary weapon I experimented with the Microjump and a Drone Link Augmentor with decent results, but the new AI has destroyed their overall usefulness if you are not sitting on them. The choice between heavies or sentries comes down to would you rather lose DPS to tracking or travel time, and that choice depends largely on the ship you use and your playstyle.
Sentries truely shine in only a couple of situations. In PvP, the ability to keep them out of smartbomb range and deliver damage instantly is useful at all skill levels. In PvE they are good if you have some other way of dealing with frigates, be that fleetmates, missles (even unbonused. sue me, I hate being scrammed by the things), sufficient turret skills to pop them on the way in (way easier with the Microjump in a Kronos), or enough webbing to slow them enough so that you can hit the things. If the frigates are not an issue, then the advantages of instant dps and good damage trump what you will get from that flight of lights. Their usefulness drops down as your drone skills improve, until you reach the other end of the spectrum. Once you have max or near max drone skills, T2 sentries, Omni Tracking links, Dronelink Augmentors and a ship with drone bonuses and that has dedicated rigs to sentry damge the things become murderous.
If you are in a ship with sufficient bay space to accomodate both sentries and lights they are almost always worth their shipping weight. If you are having to choose, they really only shine as a secondary DPS method or if you have truely superior skills with them. |

LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
528
|
Posted - 2013.03.14 18:05:00 -
[12] - Quote
EVE is supposed to be a trade off.
Sentry drones do lots of damage, but don't move. That is the trade off.
You want your drones to move, do not use sentry drones. You want drones to do massive damage, then they aren't going to move. |

Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
105
|
Posted - 2013.03.14 19:52:00 -
[13] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:EVE is supposed to be a trade off.
Sentry drones do lots of damage, but don't move. That is the trade off.
You want your drones to move, do not use sentry drones. You want drones to do massive damage, then they aren't going to move.
Depending on Skills, Fit, Ship, and Situation.
I can easily out damage sentries with heavies if they don't have to go too far and I'm not using sentry rigs. I'm a missioner, so that is dependant on my enemies. I commonly run all CCC rigs to support my active armor tank, so no sentry rigs. If I'm fighting ships that like to close in, like Angel Cartel, then I can use fairly fast drones against them and they don't have to go so far, making Berserkers a decent, if not completely optimal choice. Add a Web to my ship, especially a Maurader that boosts webs to 90%, and the Berserkers have no issue at all hitting frigates while still applying good dps to Battleships. If I'm in something like a Navy Domi, I have the spare mids for a couple of Drone Navigation computers and/or Omni Tracking links, further negating the downside of heavies vs. sentries.
Against enemies like Mordus who love to hang out at like 50k and mail it in, Sentries easily surpass the dps of the Wasps you would be using against them, but you probably want to consider making sure you have a flight of lights on hand to deal with the roughly 40 billion frigates and cruisers those missions have.
Drones are the most versatile weapons system, and Sentries are a part of that. There is no one best drone for all occasions, though there are several that are nearly useless in any occasion. |

Sinigr Shadowsong
War Tactical Groups SOLAR FLEET
58
|
Posted - 2013.03.14 20:14:00 -
[14] - Quote
I think it would be fine with some alteration. E.g. a special "Drone tractor" module that let's you to move with a single drone per High-slot module installed. Speed penalty is not necessary because highs slots for you main damage source seems just right to me. It will ne a trade-off between utility highs and mobility. |

Luc Chastot
Gentleman's Corp
258
|
Posted - 2013.03.14 21:32:00 -
[15] - Quote
Sentries are fine, you probably want to use heavies, although those suck. However, having tractor beams affect drones would be funny. Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot. |

Songbird
77
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 13:59:00 -
[16] - Quote
maybe the module can be based on tractor beams, then it will drag the sentries at a maximum speed of say 500 . And maybe the secondary function of the module will be to overheat the drones. You can raise all other weapons DPS but drones, which are a main weapon for several ships have no way to be over heated. I don't know what form exactly the drone ships upgrades will take but I know that vulnerable drones that just hang around in space for everyone to kill ... well they're a second grade weapon system right now |

monkfish2345
D'reg The Methodical Alliance
26
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 14:04:00 -
[17] - Quote
right now drones especially sentries are not in need of a buff.
a large part of the benefit of sentries is that they can be dropped and moved away from. This means you give your target the option of attack you or the drones.
allowing you to move them with you means they may as well just be guns on your ship.
what might be nice is for the to have something like a siege timer where they have to anchor to be able to fire, but can stop firing and be recalled. |

Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
106
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 14:55:00 -
[18] - Quote
monkfish2345 wrote:right now drones especially sentries are not in need of a buff.
a large part of the benefit of sentries is that they can be dropped and moved away from. This means you give your target the option of attack you or the drones.
allowing you to move them with you means they may as well just be guns on your ship.
what might be nice is for the to have something like a siege timer where they have to anchor to be able to fire, but can stop firing and be recalled.
Actually, drones are in need of a great many buffs. Raw damage is pretty low on the list of what is wrong with them though.
They are ludicriously easy to kill. Ewar drones are just plain crap. Their AI has the IQ of a rock. They are almost physically painful to use. Their skill requirements are monsterous if you are using them as a secondary weapons system, your ship looses a slot to them if they are primary.
The UI is what is most in need of reworking. It's almost unusable, has been for a long time. The only thing that made it tolerable was that you didn't have to fiddle with it constantly once you had aggro in the mission---- now the AI of the rats has an unnatural hunger for the things and they are a micromanaging nightmare with the worlds clunkiest UI.
Survivability is the second biggest problem. Others can burn their weapons out or run out of ammo, both things completly under their control. Drones can be popped out of space with stupid ease---their signatures are huge, their HP are tiny. Even with several Omni Tracking Links they won't orbit outside of smartbomb range. I personally liked a suggestion I read that would make them untargetable like missles, but still vunerable to smartbombs and maybe make them vunerable to defenders. At least their survivability would be more on me paying attention when I see a bomb go off. The other route is to radically reduce their signiture size and/or buff the HP to the levels that match their sig.
Other problems are primarily just tweaks needing to be made to the overall system. Ewar drones in particular are difficult to balance because Ewar itself is difficult to balance. |

monkfish2345
D'reg The Methodical Alliance
27
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 15:10:00 -
[19] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:monkfish2345 wrote:right now drones especially sentries are not in need of a buff.
a large part of the benefit of sentries is that they can be dropped and moved away from. This means you give your target the option of attack you or the drones.
allowing you to move them with you means they may as well just be guns on your ship.
what might be nice is for the to have something like a siege timer where they have to anchor to be able to fire, but can stop firing and be recalled. Actually, drones are in need of a great many buffs. Raw damage is pretty low on the list of what is wrong with them though. They are ludicriously easy to kill. Ewar drones are just plain crap. Their AI has the IQ of a rock. They are almost physically painful to use. Their skill requirements are monsterous if you are using them as a secondary weapons system, your ship looses a slot to them if they are primary. The UI is what is most in need of reworking. It's almost unusable, has been for a long time. The only thing that made it tolerable was that you didn't have to fiddle with it constantly once you had aggro in the mission---- now the AI of the rats has an unnatural hunger for the things and they are a micromanaging nightmare with the worlds clunkiest UI. Survivability is the second biggest problem. Others can burn their weapons out or run out of ammo, both things completly under their control. Drones can be popped out of space with stupid ease---their signatures are huge, their HP are tiny. Even with several Omni Tracking Links they won't orbit outside of smartbomb range. I personally liked a suggestion I read that would make them untargetable like missles, but still vunerable to smartbombs and maybe make them vunerable to defenders. At least their survivability would be more on me paying attention when I see a bomb go off. The other route is to radically reduce their signiture size and/or buff the HP to the levels that match their sig. Other problems are primarily just tweaks needing to be made to the overall system. Ewar drones in particular are difficult to balance because Ewar itself is difficult to balance.
I agree that NPC AI is overly agressive to drones atm. and yeah the UI isn't great.
most of the rest of what you want buffed doesn't make sense to me.
- if drones could orbit outside of smartbombs you are make a item which it's main purpose is to counter drone obselete - ewar drones should not be particularly effective, the 20 second lock break they can give is invaluable I don;t know what the situation is now, but 5 small ewar drones use to completely lock down ships in some fights. - surviveability is only a major issue with PVE. but this goes back to the point of the aggressiveness of npc ai. - drone target selection is poor, but should be managed by the player anyway, i'd prefer they went idea after each target. - apart from t2 sentries the skill requirements for drones is actually relatively low, especially when you consider all of the supporting skills needed for effective guns of missiles.
|

Sinigr Shadowsong
War Tactical Groups SOLAR FLEET
58
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 16:04:00 -
[20] - Quote
monkfish2345 wrote: - if drones could orbit outside of smartbombs you are make a item which it's main purpose is to counter drone obselete - ewar drones should not be particularly effective, the 20 second lock break they can give is invaluable I don;t know what the situation is now, but 5 small ewar drones use to completely lock down ships in some fights. - surviveability is only a major issue with PVE. but this goes back to the point of the aggressiveness of npc ai. - drone target selection is poor, but should be managed by the player anyway, i'd prefer they went idea after each target. - apart from t2 sentries the skill requirements for drones is actually relatively low, especially when you consider all of the supporting skills needed for effective guns of missiles.
- Smartboms also counter frigs. I don't see a lot of harm with using a special drone module (OTL) in valuable med-slot to protect your drones. Imagine that you could burn all your target's ammo with a smartbomb when it start to shoot you - it's the same for drone-based ships. - There are other ewar drones beside ECM ones. ECM drones are frustratingly random but useful. I suggest their reworking or removing. Rest of ewar drones just plain terrible and should never be used. - Drone survivability is a huge problem in PvP fro drone-oriented ships. Sentries are somewhat durable but they make you a sitting duck which is bearable only for carriers. - Worst part of drone skills is memory as a primary stat. |

monkfish2345
D'reg The Methodical Alliance
28
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 16:23:00 -
[21] - Quote
Sinigr Shadowsong wrote:monkfish2345 wrote: - if drones could orbit outside of smartbombs you are make a item which it's main purpose is to counter drone obselete - ewar drones should not be particularly effective, the 20 second lock break they can give is invaluable I don;t know what the situation is now, but 5 small ewar drones use to completely lock down ships in some fights. - surviveability is only a major issue with PVE. but this goes back to the point of the aggressiveness of npc ai. - drone target selection is poor, but should be managed by the player anyway, i'd prefer they went idea after each target. - apart from t2 sentries the skill requirements for drones is actually relatively low, especially when you consider all of the supporting skills needed for effective guns of missiles.
- Smartboms also counter frigs. I don't see a lot of harm with using a special drone module (OTL) in valuable med-slot to protect your drones. Imagine that you could burn all your target's ammo with a smartbomb when it start to shoot you - it's the same for drone-based ships. - There are other ewar drones beside ECM ones. ECM drones are frustratingly random but useful. I suggest their reworking or removing. Rest of ewar drones just plain terrible and should never be used. - Drone survivability is a huge problem in PvP fro drone-oriented ships. Sentries are somewhat durable but they make you a sitting duck which is bearable only for carriers. - Worst part of drone skills is memory as a primary stat.
- drone boats have a huge amount of room for ewar and utility. these can easily be used to help combat things like smartbombs - I agree the other ewar drones are poor and probably shouldn't be in game. As i said before drone ships tend to be armor based hence have plenty of room for ewar if they want it already. for other ships these should rightfully be liited in their effectiveness, however probably not as much as they are now. - there are plenty of ways you can work around drone surviveability, by pulling, repping, neuting, td's, ecm. - you are not tied to your sentry drones.
you seem to be completely avoiding the benefit that drones give you, they allow you to separate your dmg projection and your ship positioning. missiles also have this at the expense of dmg.
sadly you cannot have your cake and eat it.
|

Rynnik
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
67
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 16:24:00 -
[22] - Quote
In priority the drone changes I would personally love to see would be:
Drone UI Overhaul >>> Drone Mechanics Adjustment (things like drone MWD overshoot etc.) > Drone re-balance (Amarr and non-ECM EWAR drones come to mind) > and once that is all done some Drone buffs provided fixing all those existing issues hasnGÇÖt made them OP (in-bay drone repair, over-heat-ability, sentry remote recall or whatever else)
And all that with a healthy re-evaluation done at each and every step along the way.
I am pretty sure CCP wouldnGÇÖt be adverse to that either given infinite time and resources, but with the current path they are taking I am at least confident that it will happen someday GÇô just not sure when.
|

monkfish2345
D'reg The Methodical Alliance
28
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 16:31:00 -
[23] - Quote
Rynnik wrote:In priority the drone changes I would personally love to see would be:
Drone UI Overhaul >>> Drone Mechanics Adjustment (things like drone MWD overshoot etc.) > Drone re-balance (Amarr and non-ECM EWAR drones come to mind) > and once that is all done some Drone buffs provided fixing all those existing issues hasnGÇÖt made them OP (in-bay drone repair, over-heat-ability, sentry remote recall or whatever else)
And all that with a healthy re-evaluation done at each and every step along the way.
I am pretty sure CCP wouldn't be adverse to that either given infinite time and resources, but with the current path they are taking I am at least confident that it will happen someday GÇô just not sure when.
I could quite happily get behind, this.
i'd say that any buffs made to drones would need to be fairly minor, with the introduction of the DDA they have already received a massive buff. |

Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
106
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 19:19:00 -
[24] - Quote
Just out of morbid curiosity...
What midslot items do you suggest already counter smartbombs?
The only counters to smartbombs I know might be Neuts to shut them off, guns to kill the offending ship, and reps to keep the drones healthy.
I am not claiming that drones are useless. They took a massive hit with the AI change for PvE, for PvP they pretty much have the issues they always had.
If you consider drones a secondary weapons system, such as smartbombs or many Ewar modules, then their skill requirements are stupid. If you consider them a primary weapons system, like turrets or missles, then it's not so bad, but they have major issues mostly stemming from survivability, especially in PvE. True, much of that is an AI problem, but the AI change is needed along with a whole host of other PvE centric upgrades that have been ignored for ages.
The drone AI problems are probably a UI thing. Even when set to aggressive they won't attack anything that does not start attacking you where they can see it. This means if you get ECM put on you before you launch drones, or have to recall them because they are being destroyed, they just sit there and watch you die. The other problem is they tend to not focus fire even when set to do so. These two items need looking into and adjusted. They also tend to have an amazing propensity for choosing the trigger to the next spawn wave in missions, but that's not really something I would see changed.
Survivability would be improved if they were given the HP to survive recall, and passive regen on all 3 bars, even if only while in the bay. Ideally, some balance between reducing sig and improving HP is probably easiest to balance, though making them like missles and only vunerable to smartbombs and defenders would be great too. I would Not think it a good idea to make them untargetable and then have them adjust their orbit based on improvments to their range from Omni Tracking Links.
It might also be cool if there was a module, perhaps that uses nanopaste, that would repair the armor and structure of drones in the bay, and drones left wrecks in space that could be scooped into the bay and repaired. Not very practical for PvP, but it would help offset the depredations of the rat AI.
As an aside, I think the damage augmentors should have been midslot items as well as the Navigation computers and Omni Tracking Links. Both overdrives and tracking enhancers are lowslot items that match the drone modules, DDA should have followed the same pattern. The drone damage rigs should be opened up to all drone types as well, not just sentries. |
| |
|
| Pages: [1] :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |