EVE Search - Change Incursion Mechanics

Check My IP Information

All Channels

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Change Incursion Mechanics

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
DarthNefarius Minmatar Heavy Industries 676	Posted - 2013.03.13 18:26:00 - [31] - Quote DarthNefarius wrote: Verity Sovereign wrote: [quote=Noble Ranger]"#1 is implemented. In this case, no more wait lists for engaging in group PvE content.." We in ISN sort of "invented" using a waiting list, I'm not here to take credit for that, i would just say, no one is forcing anyone to sit on a waiting list, or make one, it is simply more efficient to maintain a fleet with one, Well, the mechanics, which I assume were made to prevent blobbing, strongly point to the direction of a wait list/cap on fleet sizes. ( snip a diving up of contest formula) - lol I don't know about ISN inventing the WL... its sort of like how I'd say it was Lord Galtran inventing the blitz legion fleets - not sure if it was invented to prevent blobbing... more like to control size ofleets w/o changing the acelleration gate mechanics ( sort ofthe same as blobbing control in many respects I suspect but that's only the over portion not considering theunder payout dropoff ) -how would your system handle 3+ fleets contesting asingle site? sorry but I think it gets too complicated Ripard Teg-á for CSM 8
Velicitia Open Designs 1234	Posted - 2013.03.13 18:36:00 - [32] - Quote DarthNefarius wrote: Verity Sovereign wrote: Velicitia wrote: correct me if I'm wrong (likely am) -- but the "majority" of the incursion runners are corps/alliances these days, right (or at least that's how it sounds with this ISN/DIN/etc talk). so ... um ... with that in mind ... can't you just dec the guys you don't like? No, they are chat channels/ out of game groups, they're all different corps/alliances. Otherwise, wardecs would have been used long ago ^^ basically HI SEC wardecc'ing mechanics are a bane to all HI SEC incursion runners that want to band into a single group.Too easy to be war decc'd by 2-3 man griefing corps or even by corps that war decc then abbandon the corp in entirely( IMHO all defuct empty corp war dec's should be declared null & void &the side still with members be declared the winner). One of the reason why HI SEC doen't have a CSM rep is because the game mechanics discourage HI SEC from banding all together in big coalitions like NULL does because game mechanics encourage them out there for safety in numbers. In HI SEC a big alliance is just a big target in NULL its safety in numbers. I don't follow. a 500-man alliance in empire has the same "safety in numbers" that a 500-man alliance in null has (well, actually a bit better because the other guy is guaranteed to not be bringing caps or supers). Both of you get dec'd by a 10-man corp, both of you outnumber that corp by 50 to 1. Even if you're absolutely _terrible_ at PvP, those odds are extremely in your favor. (but they just hide in station then, and play on an alt, and we don't have any!!!) 1. bullshit that you don't have alts (maybe not as skilled as you'd like, but you have alts) 2. if you think they're just AFKing, then have 2 or 3 guys watch the station ... rotate amongst at least 4-6 pilots (run mission or two, then trade off with someone on the station) 3. If you want to mine, go a system or two off, have people watching the incoming gate(s) for WTs this is what the nullsec guys have to do EVERY DAY. I'm sure you can do it for a week and not have significant adverse affects (beyond a few losses because of making bad decisions ... but making bad decisions is how we learn). One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia Malcanis for CSM8
Verity Sovereign Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 403	Posted - 2013.03.13 18:41:00 - [33] - Quote DarthNefarius wrote: -how would your system handle 3+ fleets contesting asingle site? sorry but I think it gets too complicated Very simple. THe game already keeps track of how much damage is done, that is how it determines who winds a contest. Just take those numbers, for each fleet take its number. divide by the total damge, multiply by payout
Dan-ielle Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2013.03.13 18:42:00 - [34] - Quote Charadrass wrote: So first, it is OK if ISN follows weaker Fleets as TVP from site to site into fleet disband, ISN calls this "game mechanic". DIN and TVP teamed up, to counter it. By blobbing ISN and following from sit to site into fleet disband, ISN calls this "griefing" see the problem? You cannot see the difference between an equal numbers group contesting sites in a fair manner to increase their isk gain, and following another group around with such an excessively large blob that nobody gets paid, exclusively in order to prevent them from making isk? I'll give you a hint, one of them is for extra profit, by virtue of just being better, the other is outright griefing. Of course, there's no point in arguing with you, your vendetta against ISN has gone so far that to back down would be to somehow lose face.
turlough dominian Angry Turtles 4	Posted - 2013.03.13 18:54:00 - [35] - Quote Not sure if a change in how incurstions work is needed, Probably best if the groups who may or may not be causeing the issue's come to some kind of mature arrangement that not only benifits them but also the rest of the isk makeing comunity or other option continue killing off the high sec incurstions so no one can do them
LeMorted'Authur Federation of Free Miners Silver Dragonz 4	Posted - 2013.03.13 19:00:00 - [36] - Quote Charadrass wrote: Verity Sovereign wrote: Most recently, ISN left an incursion where this massive payout-less blob was harassing them, and went to the other high sec incursion. DIN killed the mom and followed ISN to blob some more to shut ISN isk flow. ISN responded by killing the mom (where you can get payouts with larger numbers), resulting in no high sec incursions, so that DIN/TVP can't make ISK when ISN isn't on. So first, it is OK if ISN follows weaker Fleets as TVP from site to site into fleet disband, ISN calls this "game mechanic". DIN and TVP teamed up, to counter it. By blobbing ISN and following from sit to site into fleet disband, ISN calls this "griefing" see the problem? Second: DIN didnt killed the Mom, TDF did, because it was their mom to kill and it was on schedule, wait. it wasnt, we delayed it one day, to let ISN fly alone in the other Incursion. BTW: ISN is not able to blue that incursion out. without the help from another fleet. Actually every Incursioncommunity Part of the agreement is fed up with ISN. WE take action against that. WE are not Charadrass nor DIN alone. WE use game mechanics to prevent ISN payout everytime they show up. WE wish you a nice day. First off mechanics is fine and the issue is not contest but people in contested fleets not firing thier guns. I have found many not firing. Now to focus on this anrgy german and TVP. This man is hiding before TVP when actually he runs 16 accounts in sites. I am not rich enough to have sixteen incursion toons let alone the real life money to run a computer network to run sixteen clients. What kind of isk does 16 clients make you and how can he relate to me who must be an uber noob and can only run one client in an incursion. I sometimes try to ice mine but often my ice miner is full and well has been siting there for a long time doing nothing. 16 man that is alot of isk and man he must be very rich to use so much real life money to try and control eve. Ok here is my real concern. I have been flying incursions since incursion patch, when they were also at times live events. I flew a blackbird with logistics, I know it was a bad fit but we were trying tactics, it and the fleet died in flames within secs i think. Next secondly sucessfully run a drake and then I got shiny and ran with Skeet. TVP and TDF/Born-Ara were left to the HQ's AS's and it was unofficially agreed that HQ's be new player zone and most made their isk got shiny and move on to vg's. So here is my issue with TVP and it comes after the nerf last summer. I was not able to fly in BTL or TVP although i did if i wanted on alts, because members of my alliance ganked Nomitech's tengu and got his pod as well. This happened because he and others scammed members of the incursion community out of a Revenant bpc saying he sold it to Goons for 4 bil and goodwill. Well this did not create goodwill and if Goons have goodwill then talk to a dipo so they can troll you. Someone offered a great contract and people in my alliance took it. So this led me to discover the armor community and knowing nothing about armor but having all cruisers at 5 and all reps at 5 and logi 5 somehow I was welcome as a reliable logi pilot, and found my way into Born-ara invite only channel very quickly. At this time founders of TVP and All the TDF leadership were all running in Born-Ara comms. TVP leadership were giving back to the incursion community and training armor FC's in how to run. At this time there was an agreement to run all MOM's as a big group. But several times TVP just popped the MOM even when the armor fleet they were to merge with had no idea and were halfway through a site when the MOM died. These directors of TVP who now are running it did not consider anyone other than themselves, even their founders halfway through a site. So back to ISN after the nerf VG's Shield communities lost tons of fleets and most died right after the nerf, ISN also was mostly dead sometimes Noble after getting off work would run a vg fleet for a few hours and well my logi alt was there sometimes. So ISN being one of the few places even running sites (took several hours to even get an vg fleet together), they became the gathering place for shiny pilots and well AS's and HQ's at this time were safer and better isk than VG's. Noble having run AS's in hunters something channel back before ISN knew a little bit but knew alot of people were interested in doing them. After starts this war Before TVP and ISN and now one angry german with more isk and money than he needs. TVP keep believing all MOM's were thier persoanl property and well every time ISN made a MOM fleet TVP banned all fleet members so these people had no place to go. Fueling ISN recuitment out of nescesity, their pilots had no place lese to fly. What these self serving Directors of TVP lack to see is ISN can't contest them as easily anymore. They have transformed thier community of new pilots into an effective fleet but they allow one overly rich angry german man to control the dialogue. I mean I suck at ice mining while i am in an incursion fleet but the leader of Din can multibox 16 toons. I wish I could just fly two boxes effectively in incursions; at least I would be eve rich :). I use to send new pilots to TVP to learn and earn isk in incusions now I send them to LV6 and Born-Ara depneding on their tank. Please lets, let Din and one super rich 16 box leader lose the cotnrol he is seeking.
Kodavor Jesus saves . 91	Posted - 2013.03.13 19:02:00 - [37] - Quote turlough dominian wrote: Not sure if a change in how incurstions work is needed, Probably best if the groups who may or may not be causeing the issue's come to some kind of mature arrangement that not only benifits them but also the rest of the isk making comunity or other option continue killing off the high sec incurstions so no one can do them Oh we tried . We tried many times . Each time we were offered a ready agreement made by the other side that we need to " sign " or simply told that we have to stop flying the way we want to and have flown since day one . And because we flew that way certain category of pilots joined our ranks . So respectfully we were offered to abandon our gameplay and play their game . Kodavor wrote: If TVP and DIN leaders would be genuinely concerned about their ENTIRE community across all timezones ( because they run 24/7 ) then they would advise their EU timezone to improve and adjust for the times when ISN form for some hours of HQ's . What they do instead is provoke ISN to the extent of closing the last empire incursion resulting in No fleet for absolutely no one . And then you claim that is is for the benefit for the bigger community ? You have 90% of the incursion HQ time to yourselves and you STILL WANT THE LAST 10% . How greedy can you be ? No matter what you say ... TVP has HQ fleets 24/7 . That is a fact . So why do you press for a complete monopoly ? Well ... then don't spout random BS about your noble cause . Just say it out loud that you want it all .
DarthNefarius Minmatar Heavy Industries 676	Posted - 2013.03.13 19:11:00 - [38] - Quote Kodavor wrote: turlough dominian wrote: Not sure if a change in how incurstions work is needed, Probably best if the groups who may or may not be causeing the issue's come to some kind of mature arrangement that not only benifits them but also the rest of the isk making comunity or other option continue killing off the high sec incurstions so no one can do them Oh we tried . We tried many times . Each time we were offered a ready agreement made by the other side that we need to " sign " or simply told that we have to stop flying the way we want to and have flown since day one . ISN broke every agreement we tried to have with them. Your word in repect to agreements is lower then mud TBH Ripard Teg-á for CSM 8
Bozl1n Shiva The Retirement Club 22	Posted - 2013.03.13 19:14:00 - [39] - Quote Goldiiee wrote: Charadrass wrote: besides the harrassement i just petitioned against goldiiee. its not my personal war. even i cant multibox 100 pilots. so there must be a reason why over 100 pilots are willingly to sacrifice their payout to make absolutley sure that ISN wont get a single isk. again. its US. not my person alone. I apoligize if you took my statement as a personal attack, I assumed you were role playing and the similarities of Propaganda and Screaming from a soap box were in line with the persona I thought you were trying to emulate. Again I didn't not know this was your personality and I am extreemly sorry for my misjudging of your intent. LMAO
Kodavor Jesus saves . 93	Posted - 2013.03.13 19:15:00 - [40] - Quote DarthNefarius wrote: Kodavor wrote: turlough dominian wrote: Not sure if a change in how incurstions work is needed, Probably best if the groups who may or may not be causeing the issue's come to some kind of mature arrangement that not only benifits them but also the rest of the isk making comunity or other option continue killing off the high sec incurstions so no one can do them Oh we tried . We tried many times . Each time we were offered a ready agreement made by the other side that we need to " sign " or simply told that we have to stop flying the way we want to and have flown since day one . ISN broke every agreement we tried to have with them. Your word in repect to agreements is lower then mud TBH Quote: ISN broke every agreement we tried to have with them. Your word in repect to agreements is lower then mud TBH Saying that you never had any standing agreement with ISN . Since we never had any agreement with anyone we could not bkae anything .

Bozl1n Shiva The Retirement Club 22	Posted - 2013.03.13 19:39:00 - [41] - Quote DarthNefarius wrote: Kodavor wrote: turlough dominian wrote: Not sure if a change in how incurstions work is needed, Probably best if the groups who may or may not be causeing the issue's come to some kind of mature arrangement that not only benifits them but also the rest of the isk making comunity or other option continue killing off the high sec incurstions so no one can do them Oh we tried . We tried many times . Each time we were offered a ready agreement made by the other side that we need to " sign " or simply told that we have to stop flying the way we want to and have flown since day one . ISN broke every agreement we tried to have with them. Your word in repect to agreements is lower then mud TBH I do not recall ISN ever making any agreement with anyone. No wait we did once agree not to pop any moms for a 2 week period, which we stuck to.
LeMorted'Authur Federation of Free Miners Silver Dragonz 10	Posted - 2013.03.13 20:39:00 - [42] - Quote DarthNefarius wrote: Kodavor wrote: turlough dominian wrote: Not sure if a change in how incurstions work is needed, Probably best if the groups who may or may not be causeing the issue's come to some kind of mature arrangement that not only benifits them but also the rest of the isk making comunity or other option continue killing off the high sec incurstions so no one can do them Oh we tried . We tried many times . Each time we were offered a ready agreement made by the other side that we need to " sign " or simply told that we have to stop flying the way we want to and have flown since day one . ISN broke every agreement we tried to have with them. Your word in repect to agreements is lower then mud TBH Darth why you letting the shieldies who stole all the armor mom's act like they are the one's who are wrong'd. We should join with ISN. Armor and ISN and let TVP die with their BTL channel.
Ziranda Hakuli Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 148	Posted - 2013.03.13 21:50:00 - [43] - Quote Mechanics...hmm. There are quite a few things that do not need to be messed with. But there is something that can be looked at. Blobbing a site. I have seen this happen in VG, Assaults and now Headquarters. Granted the griefing tactic is quite entertaining but gets vary annoying. I have seen a 40 man shield fleet win a contest against a 60 man shield fleet. As you look at the numbers its obvious the 60man should have won. There are many factors that contribute to their lose. I will not bore you with the details how they lost it. What I think should change in the mechanics of incursion running. There are legal fleet sizes and illegal fleet sizes. Legal get paid where illegal fleet size does not. Now if the illegal fleet wins the site no one gets paid. Idea 1 An illegal fleet should be penalized even more. Take incursion running for instant. You got an illegal fleet killing sites no pay outs. Each pilot should be fined set amount of isk over or under the legal fleet limit. Using the base normal payout and then adjust it from there as the fine. The formula is rather simple. Increase the fine the more they are short or over legal fleet limit. Idea 2 If its a contest where you have 2 or more fleets and one is an illegal fleet who wins the site. All the DPS they put out should be forfeit and the DPS put out by the other fleet/s should be looked at which would have won and that fleet gets a payout. Idea 3 Combination of Idea 1 and Idea 2 The blobbing tactic that Chardass created. This can be looked at many ways. Enough people petitioning CCP will fill their mugs with tears or they will go and do something about it. Who knows maybe something will happen and all the CCP guys are sitting back munching on popcorn watching like they did with burn Jita.
Verity Sovereign Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 404	Posted - 2013.03.13 22:18:00 - [44] - Quote Meh, I don't like those ideas... Large blobs already don't get paid.. but fining them... that makes no gameplay sense... Making the smaller fleet win... also makes no sense. What we have now is metagaming, perhaps the sort of emergent gameplay that the devs like. However, it is the only real group PvE that is accessible in a straight forwar manner to most people (unlike plexes that must be scanned down [btw, is been months since I could scan or do PI with eve but I won't get into that], level 5s and WHs that always have a PvP element to them) So, I can see why perhaps no changes is best. It does seem CCP wants these run though (as seen by that recent declaration that holding sites open was ban-able) - but farmed? perhaps not. I'm fine with keeping them closed for now. Charadrass and his 16 boxes will have a much harder time plexing those accounts with no incursions. I can't comprehend why people follow him, basically helping him plex his accounts and get rich while they take reduced payouts, or must wait while boxes get paid.... However, what I proposed would alleviate the problems, and make there be no reason to close all high sec incursions. Of course, he's likely to close them himself if ISN kills a mom (even if there are other high sec ones open, he likes to close the rest when ISN kills a mom) So I suppose the real solution that is needed, is to get people to realize they shouldn't be in fleets with him. LeMorted'Authur wrote: Darth why you letting the shieldies who stole all the armor mom's act like they are the one's who are wrong'd. We should join with ISN. Armor and ISN and let TVP die with their BTL channel. Odds are that DIN/TVP are going to blob when the next one spawns. Odds are that ISN is going to force it closed. The blob might contest and win, but the incursion will still close. ISN almost never hits the 80 person cap that causes reduced payout, even with leach boxes. I see no reason a combined ISN + Armor fleet couldn't do the mom together (since you can do the mom with a standard 40 ship HQ fleet), so that both groups at least get 2 HQ sites worth of payouts. Of course, there will be a window for getting paid, when the VGs are being run to grind down penalties and make the mom show up.
LeMorted'Authur Federation of Free Miners Silver Dragonz 10	Posted - 2013.03.13 22:40:00 - [45] - Quote [/quote] However, what I proposed would alleviate the problems, and make there be no reason to close all high sec incursions. Of course, he's likely to close them himself if ISN kills a mom (even if there are other high sec ones open, he likes to close the rest when ISN kills a mom) So I suppose the real solution that is needed, is to get people to realize they shouldn't be in fleets with him. LeMorted'Authur wrote: Darth why you letting the shieldies who stole all the armor mom's act like they are the one's who are wrong'd. We should join with ISN. Armor and ISN and let TVP die with their BTL channel. Odds are that DIN/TVP are going to blob when the next one spawns. Odds are that ISN is going to force it closed. The blob might contest and win, but the incursion will still close. ISN almost never hits the 80 person cap that causes reduced payout, even with leach boxes. I see no reason a combined ISN + Armor fleet couldn't do the mom together (since you can do the mom with a standard 40 ship HQ fleet), so that both groups at least get 2 HQ sites worth of payouts. Of course, there will be a window for getting paid, when the VGs are being run to grind down penalties and make the mom show up.[/quote] Well I know an armor FC that did 20 man MOM armor fleets, to get these people back to the gentelman's agreement after they broke thier own agreements. But he got blacklisted from TDF even though, he suceeded in getting TVP back to the table with Armor pilots. You dont get a paid out with a fleet this low. He was blacklisted and well, I am sure he was the drone Bunny for this ISN Mom's last site. Now some angry german with his 16 boxes is using an beginners community to shield his hatred and ambition for personal eve power. Right also this fc, used t1 armor bs hulls so it was not a shiny fleet at all. Just well disciplined and fitted. He dc'd on gate and we did the whole site without him. He got banned :). Blacklisting and banned means well ISN gains more people and in the long term makes you look bad. TVP allied with DIN will be the end of the community because DIN is out for himself and his sixteen boxes. ISN took the MOM after it went to its own incursion and left the other communities alone. I personally plan on being in every ISN MOM fleet that is reacting to TVP/DIN griefing. Because as with armor, it is the only way to bring them to the table. But TVP and ISN still take less MOM sites then DIN does combined so who is the angry one a 16 box fleet or hundreds of other players who prefer to make their isk and invest it as they see fit in eve.
ShahFluffers Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance 2088	Posted - 2013.03.13 22:52:00 - [46] - Quote tl;dr... - rival incursion groups don't like each other (for whatever reason). - neither side can use war decs to settle anything because they are all mostly in NPC corps (for safety/convenience reasons). - one side decides to use the mechanics to their advantage so that everyone loses. - incursion runners don't like this so instead of doing something about it they come to the forums to request a mechanics change. Did I sum everything up correctly? Also... there is no "problem" to fix here. There are more than enough mechanics at your disposal to "fix" your little situation. They just require effort. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
Goldiiee Superior Ratio High Sec Dropouts 279	Posted - 2013.03.13 22:58:00 - [47] - Quote ShahFluffers wrote: tl;dr... - rival incursion fleets don't like each other (for whatever reason). - neither side can use war decs to settle anything because they are all mostly in NPC corps (for safety/convenience reasons). - one side decides to use the mechanics to their advantage so that everyone loses. - incursion runners don't like this so instead of doing something about it they come to the forums to request a mechanics change. Did I sum everything up correctly? Also... there is no "problem" to fix here. There are more than enough mechanics at your disposal to "fix" your little situation. They just require effort. Rival Incursion fleets are competing over E-Peen, and King of the hill. Most Incursion Runners have thier own corp (or three) so war decs are easily dodged by corp hopping. One guy has led the charge on denial of service tactics and is teared up about his plan backfiring. All the high sec Incursions were completed and left Incursion runners nothing better to do than come and troll these forums for your entertainment. Please tip your waitresses they work hard for their money.... Reason and logic never wins over Stubborn and Convinced (But I still try..)
Ziranda Hakuli Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 148	Posted - 2013.03.14 00:03:00 - [48] - Quote Goldiiee wrote: ShahFluffers wrote: tl;dr... - rival incursion fleets don't like each other (for whatever reason). - neither side can use war decs to settle anything because they are all mostly in NPC corps (for safety/convenience reasons). - one side decides to use the mechanics to their advantage so that everyone loses. - incursion runners don't like this so instead of doing something about it they come to the forums to request a mechanics change. Did I sum everything up correctly? Also... there is no "problem" to fix here. There are more than enough mechanics at your disposal to "fix" your little situation. They just require effort. Rival Incursion fleets are competing over E-Peen, and King of the hill. Most Incursion Runners have thier own corp (or three) so war decs are easily dodged by corp hopping. One guy has led the charge on denial of service tactics and is teared up about his plan backfiring. All the high sec Incursions were completed and left Incursion runners nothing better to do than come and troll these forums for your entertainment. Please tip your waitresses they work hard for their money.... nicely put leaves a 5bill tip for the waitress
Liam Li The Graduates RAZOR Alliance 66	Posted - 2013.03.14 00:33:00 - [49] - Quote Ziranda Hakuli wrote: Goldiiee wrote: ShahFluffers wrote: tl;dr... - rival incursion fleets don't like each other (for whatever reason). - neither side can use war decs to settle anything because they are all mostly in NPC corps (for safety/convenience reasons). - one side decides to use the mechanics to their advantage so that everyone loses. - incursion runners don't like this so instead of doing something about it they come to the forums to request a mechanics change. Did I sum everything up correctly? Also... there is no "problem" to fix here. There are more than enough mechanics at your disposal to "fix" your little situation. They just require effort. Rival Incursion fleets are competing over E-Peen, and King of the hill. Most Incursion Runners have thier own corp (or three) so war decs are easily dodged by corp hopping. One guy has led the charge on denial of service tactics and is teared up about his plan backfiring. All the high sec Incursions were completed and left Incursion runners nothing better to do than come and troll these forums for your entertainment. Please tip your waitresses they work hard for their money.... nicely put leaves a 5bill tip for the waitress +2, but I won't tip. IMHO, To any group that snipes incursion mom sites are only hurting themselves. A blob incursion fleet is as acceptable as a "miner bumper," nothing is glitched. CCP has the incursion mechanics setup so that it doesn't reward incursion blobbers isk so it hurts the blob fleet because they aren't getting isk at all They also have it setup so the mom can be completed many days before the incursion despwans once influence reaches 0%, afterwords nobody can run sites, so no isk if no highsec incursion is up and the runners don't want to go into lowsec/null if there is an incursion in those regions. Suicide ganking also exists, you shoot somebody in highsec with no kill rights or wardec, etc and their ship pops. If a gang of them blows up a freighter before they get shot, should CCP change the mechanics to punish gankers even though they get killed; should blob fleets get punished even though they won't get payouts?
Ariak Rykard The Graduates RAZOR Alliance 4	Posted - 2013.03.14 03:21:00 - [50] - Quote Perhaps the solution is simpler than having to change game mechanics. One party quits "contesting" everyone else. Everyone else won't bother to "blob" that one party. Simple, no? Contesting is within game mechanics, well guess what, so is blobbing. Perhaps a little respect going for both directions will work out better for everyone in the end, but i guess that's too much to hope for. -á-á-á ¦+ ¦+¦+¦+¦+'¦+'\¦+¦+¦¦-ç\==((GÇó¦¬GùÅ))==/¦+¦+¦¦-ç/'¦+¦+ ¦+ ¦+ b(",b) ob(-.0)do (d.")d

LeMorted'Authur Federation of Free Miners Silver Dragonz 10	Posted - 2013.03.14 03:37:00 - [51] - Quote Ariak Rykard wrote: Perhaps the solution is simpler than having to change game mechanics. One party quits "contesting" everyone else. Everyone else won't bother to "blob" that one party. Simple, no? Contesting is within game mechanics, well guess what, so is blobbing. Perhaps a little respect going for both directions will work out better for everyone in the end, but i guess that's too much to hope for. Contesting happens at every other level of incursions. Why should Hq's be any different. The issue here is one angry German and his 16 box fleet. TVP stops flying with DIN and the rest of his community will fall. TVP has already began to be hard for ISN to contest. But TVP leadership is too angry at ISN to see what their community has done. Why let a 16 box fleet leader stop hundreds of others from making isk because he is mad and wants uncontested HQ's for his box armies.
Ariak Rykard The Graduates RAZOR Alliance 4	Posted - 2013.03.14 04:59:00 - [52] - Quote LeMorted'Authur wrote: Ariak Rykard wrote: Perhaps the solution is simpler than having to change game mechanics. One party quits "contesting" everyone else. Everyone else won't bother to "blob" that one party. Simple, no? Contesting is within game mechanics, well guess what, so is blobbing. Perhaps a little respect going for both directions will work out better for everyone in the end, but i guess that's too much to hope for. Contesting happens at every other level of incursions. Why should Hq's be any different. The issue here is one angry German and his 16 box fleet. TVP stops flying with DIN and the rest of his community will fall. TVP has already began to be hard for ISN to contest. But TVP leadership is too angry at ISN to see what their community has done. Why let a 16 box fleet leader stop hundreds of others from making isk because he is mad and wants uncontested HQ's for his box armies. He wants to make his isk, and that's the way he enjoys it..... He doesn't like getting contested just as much as you don't like getting blobbed. He gets contested, you get blobbed back. You love contesting, he loves blobbing. Nothing that being nice to each other won't solve. But again, that maybe too much to hope for. -á-á-á ¦+ ¦+¦+¦+¦+'¦+'\¦+¦+¦¦-ç\==((GÇó¦¬GùÅ))==/¦+¦+¦¦-ç/'¦+¦+ ¦+ ¦+ b(",b) ob(-.0)do (d.")d
Verity Sovereign Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 407	Posted - 2013.03.14 07:21:00 - [53] - Quote Yes, as I've acknowledged, working as intended is a definite possibility here. "He doesn't like getting contested just as much as you don't like getting blobbed." This suggestion would make both cases irrelevant, if your above statement is true, then everyone would be happy. Of course, gameplay changes shouldn't happen just because someone is unhappy. However, that doesn't mean gameplay changes should never happen... otherwise we'd still have AoE doomsdays... If the mechanics make for bad gameplay, they should be changed. So my question is.. do the mechanics make for bad gameplay? Blobbing is normally considered bad gameplay... its a major criticism of fights in null. Hence, my suggestions to further discourage it. To you pirates out there... do you want fleets flying around in Pirate BSs, or blobs of Maelstroms and Rokhs... Which do you want the mechanics to encourage ? Of course, 16 boxes do not make a blob... the ideal solution would still be to get the incursion community to realize that Charadrass is having a negative impact on the incursion community as a whole. ISN has been around for quite a while... and they can all verify for themselves that they were still able to make quite a good income. Then Charadrass gets a following demonizing ISN, and what do we get? him rage killing all remaining moms when ISN closes a Mom instead of DIN/TVP/TDF (who seemingly unilaterally claimed the right to all moms in high sec).... when those tactics brought negatice consequences... he manages to get nearly 100 people together to waste their time and make no isk for hours on end... because... they don't like ISN... because sometimes they miss a payout when ISN wins a contest... No gameplay mechanic changes would be desirable to me if people would stop being stupid and volunteering to be serfs to "the angry German".
ShipToaster 175	Posted - 2013.03.14 08:57:00 - [54] - Quote Verity Sovereign wrote: Of course, 16 boxes do not make a blob... the ideal solution would still be to get the incursion community to realize that Charadrass is having a negative impact on the incursion community as a whole. ISN has been around for quite a while... and they can all verify for themselves that they were still able to make quite a good income. Then Charadrass gets a following demonizing ISN, and what do we get? him rage killing all remaining moms when ISN closes a Mom instead of DIN/TVP/TDF (who seemingly unilaterally claimed the right to all moms in high sec).... when those tactics brought negatice consequences... he manages to get nearly 100 people together to waste their time and make no isk for hours on end... because... they don't like ISN... because sometimes they miss a payout when ISN wins a contest... No gameplay mechanic changes would be desirable to me if people would stop being stupid and volunteering to be serfs to "the angry German". The problem with your argument is that there is no support for ISN outside ISN while over one hundred pilots flying for no payment shows a considerable level of support for DIN's scorched earth policy toward ISN. No need to change any mechanics just to suit ISN as this is a perfectly valid denial of resource by the other incursion communities to force a competitor out of an activity. I think CCP are doing a good job. Their work on the unified inventory was first class. The speed with which they fixed FW farming has to be commeneded.-á Their plans for the future look superb. Sorry even my trolling powers balk at such troll nonsense.
Alvatore DiMarco Capricious Endeavours Ltd 57	Posted - 2013.03.14 09:13:00 - [55] - Quote I read about halfway through the second page and then just gave up. So much drama. "When ISN enters a site, enter a different site" sounds an awful lot like "When ISN comes in to contest your site, abandon it and go to a different one." If this interpretation is accurate, then my feelings are that ISN should be denied as much ISK as possible. Apply economic pressure until they cant handle their own rage and fracture into a million little officer-fitted pieces. There is absolutely no reason to change game mechanics in order to solve your pathetic high-school drama.
Kodavor Jesus saves . 99	Posted - 2013.03.14 10:34:00 - [56] - Quote Alvatore DiMarco wrote: I read about halfway through the second page and then just gave up. So much drama. "When ISN enters a site, enter a different site" sounds an awful lot like "When ISN comes in to contest your site, abandon it and go to a different one." If this interpretation is accurate, then my feelings are that ISN should be denied as much ISK as possible. Apply economic pressure until they either go to lowsec Incursions or cant handle their own rage and fracture into a million little officer-fitted pieces. There is absolutely no reason to change game mechanics in order to solve your pathetic high-school drama. Facts : 1) DIN/TVP has HQ fleets 24/7 as long as there are Incursions in Empire space . 2)ISN has HQ fleets up only at EU TZ peak times ( maybe 2-3 weekdays ) and on weekends for 4 - 6 hours . 3) DIN/TVP have been around long enough to advise their pilots to train properly and fit their ships properly to be on par with ISN . 4) ISN since day one schooled their pilots to fit and fly optimally . 5)DIN/TVP dislikes the very fact that few days a week in EU timezone they get contested in some sites . They hate it . They hate it so much that they can't even see the very fact that these contests have improved their overall fleet performance AT LEAST 4 TIMES and still claim that they are bad and ISN bullies them . They want 100% monopoly on non contested mindless grind and self regulated Kundalini kills . 6) ISN has contested since day one . VG/AS/HQ alike and does not care about any regulations for the small amount of time they run HQ's . 7) DIN/TVP by being greedy and wanting 100% controll over all HQ / Kundalini sites across all timezones blobs the smaller entity ( ISN ) in hopes of pressuring them into submission . 8) ISN unable to contests with 100+ man fleets in their 4-6 hours HQ run chooses to liberate the constellation from Sansha . 9) DIN/TVP wanting absolutely all ended up with absolutely nothing . They had uncontested fleets 18 hours a day every day . They had hundreds of people earning their isk with no issues in all other timezones . They could have schooled their EU pilots better to be on par with ISN HQ fleets when ISN forms up to run some HQ 's . They did not . They chose to gamble and lost it all . This reminds me of US military industrial complex pressuring all the middle east countries into submission . Unfortunately in this case ISN had nukes and they used them . So everybody lost everything just because someone wanted absolute monopoly . Quote: If TVP and DIN leaders would be genuinely concerned about their ENTIRE community across all timezones ( because they run 24/7 ) then they would advise their EU timezone to improve and adjust for the times when ISN form for some hours of HQ's . What they do instead is provoke ISN to the extent of closing the last empire incursion resulting in No fleet for absolutely no one . And then you claim that is is for the benefit for the bigger community ? You have 90% of the incursion HQ time to yourselves and you STILL WANT THE LAST 10% . How greedy can you be ? No matter what you say ... TVP has HQ fleets 24/7 . That is a fact . So why do you press for a complete monopoly ? Well ... then don't spout random BS about your noble cause . Just say it out loud that you want it all .
Safdrof Uta VELOCIRAPTORS EATING GRILLED CHEESE SANDWICH 13	Posted - 2013.03.14 10:42:00 - [57] - Quote Oh hey - It's this thread again. To answer all of your questions really really simply... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgvM7av1o1Q Yes, it annoys me that ISN doesn't want to work with those of us in other communities, but such is life. We move on. Incursions are the way they are, to keep them different from the other PVE elements of the game. Don't like that? go run the other PVE elements. Simple.
Jim Bond Suicide Squad Industries 3	Posted - 2013.03.14 11:15:00 - [58] - Quote I have run with neither DIN nor ISN. Everyone is entitled to make isk, doesnt matter if you are running with DIN, ISN, TVP or some unknown non shiney fleet. You are all forgetting that there are people who do not run with the "big communities" and to be honest you are all spoiling it for eveyone else especially the "little people" who are running corp incursions, or non shiney fleets. All of you Grow the hell up and sort this drama queening out If you wanna measure manhood size, go to the CCP Fanfest and whip them out there. I dont see why you don't all just pick a HI-SEC Incursion each and go your seperate ways and leave each other alone. The days of all having to go to the same incursion holding each others hand to get the blue bar down to 0% is over.
Verity Sovereign Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 407	Posted - 2013.03.14 11:16:00 - [59] - Quote Alvatore DiMarco wrote: I read about halfway through the second page and then just gave up. So much drama. "When ISN enters a site, enter a different site" sounds an awful lot like "When ISN comes in to contest your site, abandon it and go to a different one." If this interpretation is accurate, then my feelings are that ISN should be denied as much ISK as possible. Apply economic pressure until they either go to lowsec Incursions or cant handle their own rage and fracture into a million little officer-fitted pieces. What I meant was that all you need to do is wait for ISN to start a site, and then go to a different one. ISN rarely leaves mid site to go contest, as there are scrams on field that routinely spawn. The only exception is TPPHs, where there are 2 rooms that may be cleared relatively fast before the tower bash. If ISN is able to finish its site, and then come to yours and win the contest... (which is rare, but running TPPHs increases this possibility), well thats pretty bad. Basically, if you don't want to contest, just time your entry into sites a bit better, when your fleet takes >20 minutes to finish a site... that shouldn't be an issue.
Verity Sovereign Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 407	Posted - 2013.03.14 11:24:00 - [60] - Quote ShipToaster wrote: The problem with your argument is that there is no support for ISN outside ISN while over one hundred pilots flying for no payment shows a considerable level of support for DIN's scorched earth policy toward ISN. No need to change any mechanics just to suit ISN as this is a perfectly valid denial of resource by the other incursion communities to force a competitor out of an activity. So ISN's support level is the 50 people that form when being blobbed, compared to the 100 in TVP and DIN (wait, - at least 16 boxes) so 80 or less.... that listen to Charadrass's propaganda. While the rest of the community isn't happy when Charadrass would rage kill all the high sec moms because ISN killed a mom that DIN/TVP claimed for themselves... Now they aren't happy that ISN killed the mom because Charadrass was blobbing ISN. So most are unhappy with both groups The support levels aren't much different, and public discussion, as here, is perhaps the way forward... and it should be evident that Charadrass is the instigator. First he was mom killing, now he's blobbing, simply because he doesn't like to lose contests. When faced with blobbing, Mom killing is the best way for ISN to make ISK, and thats what ISN is about... So unless people abandon Charadrass (its hopeless to get that guy to change), or the mechanics change, high sec incursions won't be lasting very long...



Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.