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Ja'kar
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Posted - 2005.08.20 10:57:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Ja''kar on 20/08/2005 10:57:33
***this is not a t2 bs bashing post i am looking 4ward to them big time since i always liked the bs from my noob days***
it's just that i feel there should be more t1 bs fot that all ships, just seem after all theis time to have 2 types of bs per race is rather slow. i am not talking masive changes or even better ships then we have now, just new modles and fo rgos some new to fly...
U get m3?
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Stuart85
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Posted - 2005.08.20 15:21:00 -
[2]
I don't think CCP thought battleships would become the main workhorses of the fleet so each faction only got two. I'd love to see more T1 battleships, but with all the balancing issues it would throw up, I doubt we'll see it happen.
As for the T2 BS? Meh. As long as they don't make the T1s obsolete, I'm not all that bothered. Personally I don't think they're a very good idea, but what do I know. 
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ReaperOfSly
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Posted - 2005.08.20 15:34:00 -
[3]
I think if you're going to introduce a new BS model, it would have to be crappier than the current ones. Perhaps something with high damage output but paper-thin defenses for about 50mil?
Then you could tank it to kingdom come and laugh while your enemy's fleet declares it as primary
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Krulla
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Posted - 2005.08.20 15:38:00 -
[4]
Personally, I think they should add another tier I battleship.
Caldari could get their much needed rail platform, for instance. The other races could get.. something.
Respect the Domi. Or else. |
HippoKing
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Posted - 2005.08.20 15:42:00 -
[5]
i think another tier 2 BS should be added for each race (maybe price it at about 100mil) to fill the gaps in each armies arsenal
for example (just suggestions, wasn;t sure bout gallente one):
caldari get a rail BS
gallente get an ECM ship
Minny get a missile boat (not sure if theres alot of point in this post-coldwar)
Amarr get a drone carrier
i suggest placing this between the current BSs mainly so that people who don't want to use one of these ships don't feel they are missing out on the most powerful BS for their race, and i really don;t think we need a BS cheaper than 70mil
If these were added as a tier 3 BS with the roles mentioned above, we would get lots of whines about how the most powerful BS for the race wasn't in their area of speciality.
if they were just added as beefed versions of the current tier1 or 2 BSs, they would be boring and pointless
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Douglas McCracken
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Posted - 2005.08.20 15:43:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Krulla
Caldari could get their much needed rail platform, for instance.
Caldari had a perfectly good rail boat in the scorp, then they changed it into a crap e/w bird, bring back the old scorp dammit, then give each race a e/w bird of their own.
It just sucks that one of our BSes is just **** for PvE (oh wait both are  )
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Leylaa
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Posted - 2005.08.20 15:46:00 -
[7]
Originally by: HippoKing
i think another tier 2 BS should be added for each race (maybe price it at about 100mil) to fill the gaps in each armies arsenal
for example (just suggestions, wasn;t sure bout gallente one):
caldari get a rail BS
gallente get an ECM ship
Minny get a missile boat (not sure if theres alot of point in this post-coldwar)
Amarr get a drone carrier
i suggest placing this between the current BSs mainly so that people who don't want to use one of these ships don't feel they are missing out on the most powerful BS for their race, and i really don;t think we need a BS cheaper than 70mil
If these were added as a tier 3 BS with the roles mentioned above, we would get lots of whines about how the most powerful BS for the race wasn't in their area of speciality.
if they were just added as beefed versions of the current tier1 or 2 BSs, they would be boring and pointless
Why each race should be different giving amarr a drone ship would make them more like gilent.
And why give caldari a pure gun ship they dont need one [ missiles hint hint]
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2005.08.20 16:02:00 -
[8]
all these roles are doing is expanding on something each race has at cruiser level
caldari have the moa (rail platform)
gallente have the celestis (sensor dampener)
amarr have the arbitrator (drone carrier)
minmattar is the exception here - but missiles are already a large part of almost ALL minny ships
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FalloutBoy
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Posted - 2005.08.20 16:29:00 -
[9]
the only real obvious BS that is missing is a caldari Rail platform ship to go with the theme of the Moa, Merlin, Harpy, Ferox. something like:
5 turrent slots 3 missile 7 total highslots
5 mids
5 lows
bonus would be 5% damage to rails and 10% range per level
would make it a great sniping platform but would still make the megathron the bigger damage dealer.
need a sig? Gallery Contact me for more information |
HippoKing
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Posted - 2005.08.20 16:39:00 -
[10]
Originally by: FalloutBoy
the only real obvious BS that is missing is a caldari Rail platform ship to go with the theme of the Moa, Merlin, Harpy, Ferox. something like:
5 turrent slots 3 missile 7 total highslots
5 mids
5 lows
bonus would be 5% damage to rails and 10% range per level
would make it a great sniping platform but would still make the megathron the bigger damage dealer.
6 mids, 4 low - that way you could fit enough sensor boosters to use all that uber range
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Weirda
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Posted - 2005.08.20 16:48:00 -
[11]
there no reason that these new bs should be any more gimped or role specific then existing ones. more thinking along the line of a ship that is a different role then the existing ones.
i.e. the amarr would be a khanid design (more missiles), the matari would be more specific to close range, w/close range weaponry bonuses (falloff and tracking)... you get the picture.
anyhow - have recommended this before too, glad to see it come up again.
--
Thread Killer
(attempting to train verbosity from 4 back down to 1)
<END TRANSMISSION> |
FalloutBoy
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Posted - 2005.08.20 16:49:00 -
[12]
trying to comeup with more BS that make sence role play wise. MIM could have a fast autocanon style ship (think big vagabond)
6 turrents no missile
5 mids
6 lows
Bonus 5% damage to autocannon per level 10% bonus to speed per level.
with max skills make it go something like 650m/s with AB and with MWD around 1900-2000m/s
honestly not sure on an amarr one at this time though
need a sig? Gallery Contact me for more information |
Professor McFly
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Posted - 2005.08.20 17:04:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Professor McFly on 20/08/2005 17:05:16
What about each race getting an EW ship like the Scorp, but having varying roles in EW? And add bonuses for Scramblers and Webbers into the mix. Modify Scorpion to balance it with the new ships, give them a mix of bonuses for Jamming/ECCM/Tracking Disrupting/Webbing/Scrambling/Energy Draining. A lot can be done imo, without making them all complete copies of the Scorpion and without making them too powerful.
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Iasus
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Posted - 2005.08.20 17:19:00 -
[14]
As a pilot of Ammar ships, I'd like to see something a bit more versatile, maybe with drones, but an Amarr ship witb something that resembles EW capability would be nice....
================MAKE PIRACY HISTORY===============
(Official wristband of the Sinq Liason anti-pie network) |
HippoKing
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Posted - 2005.08.20 17:28:00 -
[15]
as i suggested, we shouldn't add new characteristics to a race for just one ship:
when you can find an amarr ship already focused on EW in the game as it is now, u can have that on your 3rd BS. i suggested a drone ship for amarr because the arbitrator is already there showing an amarr drone carrier
i suggested an EW ship for gallente only because they already have one (the celestis). however, as its focus is remote sensor dampeners, i think this is how a gallente EW should be modelled
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danneh
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Posted - 2005.08.20 17:32:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Iasus
As a pilot of Ammar ships, I'd like to see something a bit more versatile, maybe with drones, but an Amarr ship witb something that resembles EW capability would be nice....
I whould love a EW Amarr ship
7 Hi, 6 Turrets.
6 Mids.
6 Lows.
Ew range bonus and dmg bonus (/hopes/)
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2005.08.20 17:33:00 -
[17]
Edited by: HippoKing on 20/08/2005 17:36:14
Originally by: FalloutBoy
but maybe then with this ship you could come up with a role play reason for Gal to counter this BS with a Dampening ship. something like:
4 turrents 2 missile
6 mids
6 Lows
Bonus: 5% dampener effectiveness 10% bonus to Dampener Falloff (not sure if this will give it good enough range to get out 150km-170km with max ew skills or not
make it a 20% bonus to optimal range per lvl on dampeners (scorp gets 20% to ECM)
although the optimal of ECM is a bit longer, the HUGE falloff on sensor dampeners would more than make up for this
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2005.08.20 17:41:00 -
[18]
Originally by: danneh
Originally by: Iasus
As a pilot of Ammar ships, I'd like to see something a bit more versatile, maybe with drones, but an Amarr ship witb something that resembles EW capability would be nice....
I whould love a EW Amarr ship
7 Hi, 6 Turrets.
6 Mids.
6 Lows.
Ew range bonus and dmg bonus (/hopes/)
so that would mean:
Amarr get a drone ship, an EW ship, good long range ships and good close range ships
lets see, caldari have good EW and ok close range ships. (comparitively) good damage at extreme long range
gallente get high dmg at close range, ok snipers, drones
minmattar get ok close range ships, good snipers
sound slightly unbalanced?
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Hamatitio
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Posted - 2005.08.20 17:53:00 -
[19]
When making theoretical setups, give them enough slots :|
-19- Slots have the battleships.
So the Caldari sniper would be
6
7
6
Maybe? :|
Gallente
7
7
4
(lol)
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Ham a Tee Tee Oh |
Therin Dracul
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Posted - 2005.08.20 18:28:00 -
[20]
I think an amarr drone carrier would be sweet, and well within RP for amarr.
I mean, are they not already well-trained by their society to control minions?
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NateX
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Posted - 2005.08.20 18:40:00 -
[21]
Edited by: NateX on 20/08/2005 18:41:20
Originally by: HippoKing
Edited by: HippoKing on 20/08/2005 15:58:56
gallente get an EW ship - based on remote sensor damepeners
Then gallente have a rail boat, an ew boat and a drone boat...
caldari to..
argh.. bad post
NateX |
Iasus
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Posted - 2005.08.20 20:32:00 -
[22]
Hang on guys, do we need another BS? Lets take a look at the races one by one.
Caldari use high tech, versatile ships based around excellent electronics. As a result we have 2 quite different BSs, one meant for EW and the other a superb missile platform, both with excellent shield tanking.
The Gallente fight at close range using Hybrids and/or swarms of drones. We have the Dominix with it's drone swarm and the Megathron which is an uber blaster platform. This is a bit of a parallel with their democratic nature.
Amarrian tech is your typical solid engineering. They use ultra high energy beam weapons and meters of solid metal on ships built to advance slowly and take anything you can throw at them. We have the 'Geddon, with it's ROF bonus and (potentially) insane damage output, and the Apocalypse which has one of the (if not the best) tanks of any ship, and can still put out a lot of damage. They are, however, just as inflexible as the Amarrians who build them.
Minmatar technology is primitive relative to the other 3 races, as they have had to cobble it together after their escape from enslavement by the Amarrians. Their ships are correspondingly bodged, relying on projectile weapons, fission power and Nukes. Although flimsy, they are (mostly) very fast and can do vast amounts of damage in spite of their low tech appearance. They lack the shield tech of the Caldari, and the engineering ability of the Amarrians, but they are and deadly in the hands of a skilled pilot. We have the Typhoon, a tough artillery platform and the Tempest, which can both shield tank and fit lots of damage mods.
Looking at the histories, it looks like the current BSs fit the races quite well, so do we need another one? I understand the arguments in favour of a 3rd BS and can see why a Cadari turret platform, an Amarrian drone carrier and a Gallente EW ship might be a good idea, but I see some problems:
1) What will the Minmatar 3rd BS be like? They already use a mix of turrets and missiles which reflects their patched together technologies.
2) Why give the Amarrians a drone carrier when they will have a Carrier anyway, SOON?
Athough, one could very well then say "Why give the Gallente a Carrier when they have a BS that does this already?" I have no answer to this question at the moment. Suggestions would be great.
Thoughts?
/me prepares to be flamed to death
================MAKE PIRACY HISTORY===============
(Official wristband of the Sinq Liason anti-pie network) |
HippoKing
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Posted - 2005.08.20 21:17:00 -
[23]
a 3rd BS to add more diversity into the game 
if u don't wanna use it, you don't have to, but i personally would like more choice in the BS category - as a caldari, i would like a rail platform to play with, and think that more diversity in the ship make up can only be a good thing (if it is well balanced)
this would also add more tactical diversity into the current combat system - an amarr drone carrier would definetely add more tactical choices than the "FIT GANK SETUP - LOCK - F1,F2,F3,F4,F5,F6,F7,F8" system of amarr fighting today
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Iasus
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Posted - 2005.08.20 21:49:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Iasus on 20/08/2005 21:55:40
Edited by: Iasus on 20/08/2005 21:55:22
point taken, although you didn;t actually answer any of my qns.
Minmatar pilots, what would you like to see in a 3rd BS?
edit: Hippo, that is what Amarr ships are supposed to do - go in hard and keep firing like crazy until you or they are vapourised. Remember these ships are built by ultra-zealous religious fanatics, whose tactics are simply to smack you over the head as hard as possible and keep whacking until you repent or die.
================MAKE PIRACY HISTORY===============
(Official wristband of the Sinq Liason anti-pie network) |
HippoKing
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Posted - 2005.08.20 22:01:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Iasus
go in hard and keep firing like crazy until you or they are vapourised.
seee - i want a game with tactics and variation - if i wanted to do that, i'd go play serious sam (love that game)
as to your questions
Originally by: Iasus
1) What will the Minmatar 3rd BS be like? They already use a mix of turrets and missiles which reflects their patched together technologies.
minny should get a dedicated missile boat or a slower, more tanky ship.
Originally by: Iasus
2) Why give the Amarrians a drone carrier when they will have a Carrier anyway, SOON?
2 reasons - first SOON(TM) is often nearer NEVER(TM) (exodus features 4tw)
2nd - carrier is a BFS - thus it will have a cost of >1bil, be big, fat and slow (as well as requiring several million in specialised skills in order to fly it
thats like saying "why have frigates when we can all fly Battleships instead?"
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Sylvia Frost
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Posted - 2005.08.21 02:32:00 -
[26]
possibly a bs that gets bonuses to mining since it's something that all races could use?
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danneh
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Posted - 2005.08.21 02:36:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Sylvia Frost
possibly a bs that gets bonuses to mining since it's something that all races could use?
Over my dead body.
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Skull Bunny
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Posted - 2005.08.21 04:42:00 -
[28]
Everone is saying how weak BSs are against pure damage setups, so why not a BS for each race that is designed around pure tanking?
For looks, a picture came out not too long ago of a Gallente BS that looks like a big Tristan. That would rock.
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Toaster Oven
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Posted - 2005.08.21 05:14:00 -
[29]
Meh, I would rather see a redesign of Caldari battleships. Nerf the Raven and make it the Tier 1 battleship. Then introduce a new Tier 2 rail gun battleship with optimal range bonus. That would remove the imbalance in the Caldari lineup.
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Mr Floppyknickers
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Posted - 2005.08.21 06:24:00 -
[30]
My suggestions.
Caldari: the Rail BS for the "OMG Mizzl3 N3rf" crowd wants, or anyone else who just likes rails cause they do rock.
Mims: Some kind of close in autocannon jugernaught that loesn't look like a welded together junkyard with a couple sails tacked to it.
Gallante: hell just give the Domi a new model and we're set. Something less brain tumor-ish thanks. Maybe something sleek and carrier like since the domi is a BS drone carrier. If we had to have a 3rd, how about something with missles so we would'nt have to fly ravens. Or maybe a stealth bomber BS with 2 turrent and 4 launcer spots. Overpowered, no, sneaky ooh yeah.
Amarr: Dunno, maybe something with mid-slots beyond your average cruiser.
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