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Tobias Annages
The Scope
Gallente Federation
9
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Posted - 2013.03.15 08:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
http://community.eveonline.com/news/newsFromEve.asp?of=true&newsTitle=breaking-news-jacus-roden-reveals-existence-of-cloned-mercenaries-announces-federation-purge
Luminaire GÇô The Federation developed technology to clone and transfer the consciousness of humans without the use of a neural burner and was using them for warfare, President Jacus Roden revealed in an emergency announcement today. The president revealed that the Federation, following in the recent steps of the Caldari State and Minmatar Republic, has determined these soldiers are extremely dangerous and have to be contained for the safety of the cluster. |
Seriphyn Inhonores
Destiny Foundation
421
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 09:26:00 -
[2] - Quote
Way to one-up everyone else with the Gallentean principles of honesty and transparency, 'ey? |
Shiori Shaishi
State War Academy
Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 10:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
When the Gallentean version of this purge starts, will it be commonly considered as proof of the madness of Roden, the inherent evil of the Gallentean democratic system, and a sign that the Federation is about to collapse into a civil war, as it more or less was with the Caldari?
Or will it go as unnoticed as the Minmatar one?
One wonders. |
Simon Coal
Comstock Daze
16
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 11:22:00 -
[4] - Quote
So, when it happened for you guys, a bunch of ships just started pounding targets from orbit with little warning and no stated reason. Not our business, Caldari do what they want, etc etc, but the cluster didn't know what the heck was going on and it looked really bad.
Guess what we're doing that's different? |
Shiori Shaishi
State War Academy
Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 11:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
The Navy explicitly stated to be in the process of removing a threat to Caldari national security, and potentially the entire cluster. The fact that the targets were clone trooper PMCs did not remain a secret for very long either.
What has Roden said that's new? |
Simon Coal
Comstock Daze
16
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 11:47:00 -
[6] - Quote
Nothing much. He just said it before dropping rods on ground targets, and he stated clearly and effectively exactly who those targets are. Which is important. |
Shiori Shaishi
State War Academy
Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 12:18:00 -
[7] - Quote
In any case, it is pleasing to see the State's judgement in this matter vindicated, and for some good to've come out of the mentioned border incident. |
Malcolm Khross
Wiyrkomi Tactical Response Directive
702
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 12:23:00 -
[8] - Quote
This is the result of a massive cultural misunderstanding.
The actions of the Caldari Navy and State are not up for debate in this discussion.
The cultural difference lies here:
- The Gallente Federation claims to operate with transparency toward its citizens and (to a lesser extent) the cluster. This mandates that politicians be more forthcoming with their plans. Given the way elections work and the fact that Gallente politicians must maintain the popular approval of their constituents, careful steps are taken to avoid damaging trust and popular sentiment by politicians. Hence, a vocal declaration of what was about to transpire before it happened.
- The Caldari State functions under no such pretense. The Caldari, as a people, do not make a habit of expecting transparency and vocalization from their leaders. Executives and Directors are held to account by their actions and should they be found lacking in quality or placing themselves in disfavor, they are given choices but removed from authority either way. This system does not require the popular support of the the Caldari people. It is the duty of every Caldari to place trust in their leaders until such trust is visibly breached, then to seek executive action against those leaders within the system of the State.
~Malcolm Khross
|
Simon Coal
Comstock Daze
16
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Posted - 2013.03.15 12:37:00 -
[9] - Quote
Sure they are. I think telling the entire cluster that it was under threat, and the State would fix that, but not telling us what was going on, was a bad idea. It's definitely a thing that's up for debate. Even though I understand your reasons, I do not agree with them, and in this instance, I think it produced a bad result.
But really, this whole discussion began when a Caldari dragged the State into an announcement about Federal affairs, and I'd be happy to see it dragged right back out. Glad to see Roden living up to our ideals, though I do question the need for this 'purge'. I've met a few of these clone soldiers, and they don't seem crazy.
Well, not any crazier than us. |
Malcolm Khross
Wiyrkomi Tactical Response Directive
702
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 12:40:00 -
[10] - Quote
Simon Coal wrote:Sure they are. I think telling the entire cluster that it was under threat, and the State would fix that, but not telling us what was going on, was a bad idea. It's definitely a thing that's up for debate. Even though I understand your reasons, I do not agree with them, and in this instance, I think it produced a bad result.
But really, this whole discussion began when a Caldari dragged the State into an announcement about Federal affairs, and I'd be happy to see it dragged right back out.
This is precisely why I stated they are not up for debate in this discussion. This discussion pertains to the Federation, not the State. If you want to debate the State, we can do so elsewhere.
~Malcolm Khross
|
Simon Coal
Comstock Daze
16
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Posted - 2013.03.15 12:43:00 -
[11] - Quote
Fair enough. |
DeadRow
Utopian Research I.E.L.
Suddenly Spaceships.
63
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 12:47:00 -
[12] - Quote
Sometimes I honestly wonder how the BigFour still exist with leaders like they have now. |
Sepherim
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
336
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 13:50:00 -
[13] - Quote
Nothing new, and he's only making it clear that he knows that clone soldiers exist, which we already know. Until the specific measures to retire them are taken, this is just a warning. Which, by the way, will probably complicate matters of the soldier's retiring, as they will be forwarned that the Gallente forces are coming... and I believe they are quite apt in combat.
Sepherim Catillah
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Ensign
Ex-Imperial Navy Imperator Commander |
Anslo
The Scope
Gallente Federation
1308
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 14:01:00 -
[14] - Quote
More craziness? Anyone know where this recent spat of crazy happened? What planet?
|
Mirala Nodoka
SilfMeg Mining and Transportation Co
0
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 15:00:00 -
[15] - Quote
Yesterday I was part of the covering force for the Caldari Freighter fleeing Caldari space.
With the recent atrocities committed our Glorious State, I decided not to stand idle in the defence of my fellow Caldari and asisted the Federation Navy in truning back the pursuing State Ships.
I believe the freighter was tracked to the Couster system.
What happened there I do not know, although rumours of bounties offered by both the Federation and the State were circulating.
I kept watch at the gate from Kassigainen to Algolille in case more ships decided to flee the State.
None did. |
Quinzel Nikulainen
Kokako Acquisitions
72
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 15:20:00 -
[16] - Quote
Mirala Nodoka wrote:Yesterday I was part of the covering force for the Caldari Freighter fleeing Caldari space.
Your bold confession has been considered and logged, hnolku.
|
Kane Spero
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
20
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 15:30:00 -
[17] - Quote
After years of loyal service this is how our men are rewarded? We haven't been always the most secretive bunch, but clone soldiers have been working with capsuleers for some time now. Often to further the goals of these men and their empires.
First Heth descends into genocidal madness and now Roden walks down the same path in the name of "security." Seems like when the dust settles only Mordu's Legion and Ishukone will be a clone soldier's true ally.
I'm sure the empires will be desperate for our services in due time. They have no stomach for true war. War where the losses of soldiers on the battlefields will be a permanent reminders of the lives they could have saved.
|
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1689
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 15:37:00 -
[18] - Quote
Is there a second generation of these soldiers that, maybe, are not so insane? I keep hearing stories about how the first set are insane, but nothing about the later ones.
http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Mirala Nodoka
SilfMeg Mining and Transportation Co
0
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 15:41:00 -
[19] - Quote
Quinzel Nikulainen wrote:Mirala Nodoka wrote:Yesterday I was part of the covering force for the Caldari Freighter fleeing Caldari space. Your bold confession has been considered and logged, hnolku.
My bold confession is nothing to be ashamed of.
I would rather stand against Tyranny, than follow the Paths of Tyrants.
Perhaps you should remember that our Forebears left the Gallente Federation for Freedom.
And now the Tyrants are in the midst of our State! |
Julianus Soter
Moira.
Villore Accords
81
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 15:47:00 -
[20] - Quote
Jacus Roden's comments are helpful and provide a clear picture of the situation. I founded the Synenose Accord some years ago to investigate and respond to the possibility of Sleeper technology having a negative impact on human civilization in the New Eden cluster... unfortunately, it seems that has become a reality.
The First Generation clone troopers appear to have been contaminated by the Sleeper devices implanted into them. Now, we know from the Arek'Jaalan project and other research programs the past few years, that the Sleepers are an infomorphic society much like our own, but with the ability to transmit their consciousness directly into a solid-state device of their choice.
It seems possible, and indeed likely, that the devices implanted in the clone troopers have been conatminated by these consciousnesses, either in part or full. This traumatic experience, while unfortunate, has created heavily armed and unstable juggernauts of war, able to indefinitely carry out war against everyone in the known universe.
We must resist and contain them, and hopefully treat them if possible. If they do not cooperate, then we must destroy them.
It is essential to safeguard our citizens from technology determinism of this kind.
We will be keeping an eye on these developments.
-Julianus Soter
CEO Moira. |
Kane Spero
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
20
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 15:55:00 -
[21] - Quote
There will be no containment only wholesale slaughter of the soldiers who fought for their nations. The clone soldiers will fight back against their extermination and it is only right that they do so. These men and women gave up everything to be a part of these advance clone soldier programs.
We will find a new home soon enough. The empires are mistaken if they feel they can reach out and crush us wherever we might go in the cluster.
|
Knoot Enderas
Advenus Classem
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
35
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 16:21:00 -
[22] - Quote
The Federal Navy would've been better off fighting side-by-side with Caldari Navy against these cloned soldiers, rather than destroying an intervention force which they now admit was justified in its actions! |
Evi Polevhia
True Slave Foundations
Shaktipat Revelators
81
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 16:30:00 -
[23] - Quote
Knoot Enderas wrote:The Federal Navy would've been better off fighting side-by-side with Caldari Navy against these cloned soldiers, rather than destroying an intervention force which they now admit was justified in its actions!
Yes, how dare there be deathless warriors who could form their own ideas of loyalty and duty. Such a thing could be quite disastrous for the galaxy, don't you think, Capsuleer? |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1689
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 16:30:00 -
[24] - Quote
Knoot Enderas wrote:The Federal Navy would've been better off fighting side-by-side with Caldari Navy against these cloned soldiers, rather than destroying an intervention force which they now admit was justified in its actions!
If the Caldari had asked for help that may have happened. But no, they just barged into Gallente space as though it was their own.
http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
Shaktipat Revelators
1556
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 16:34:00 -
[25] - Quote
Evi Polevhia wrote:Knoot Enderas wrote:The Federal Navy would've been better off fighting side-by-side with Caldari Navy against these cloned soldiers, rather than destroying an intervention force which they now admit was justified in its actions! Yes, how dare there be deathless warriors who could form their own ideas of loyalty and duty. Such a thing could be quite disastrous for the galaxy, don't you think, Capsuleer?
This.
Just saying. Any capsuleer who believes that these cloned soldiers are dangerous should take a good, long look in a mirror, and thank whatever gods they worship that these cloned soldiers do not have access to the same technologies we do. Remember, we're the ones bombing THEM from orbit. |
Knoot Enderas
Advenus Classem
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
35
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 16:43:00 -
[26] - Quote
Lest anyone accuses me of hypocrisy, I am all for placing some limits on Capsuleer activity. The rampant piracy orchestrated by Capsuleer pilots alone is a powerful argument for adding a kill switch to capsules. The mental instability of clones outfitted with this new technology is a good enough reason for reigning it in.
Mr. Athena, it is regrettable that the Federation has come to distrust the State to such a degree that it cannot even phantom cooperation against a mutual threat. This border incident should be a wake-up call to all men and women of good will who still desire to have an honourable peace. |
Evi Polevhia
True Slave Foundations
Shaktipat Revelators
81
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 16:47:00 -
[27] - Quote
Knoot Enderas wrote:The rampant piracy orchestrated by Capsuleer pilots alone is a powerful argument for adding a kill switch to capsules.
Piracy has existed long before the pod. So let's just install kill switches in everyone, shall we?
Ah, but who has their hand on the switch. You? Heth? The Empress? CONCORD? |
Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor
2221
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 16:48:00 -
[28] - Quote
Worst decision the CRC ever made was letting these things talk on the IGS.
Mane 614
|
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
Shaktipat Revelators
1557
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 16:48:00 -
[29] - Quote
Evi Polevhia wrote:Knoot Enderas wrote:The rampant piracy orchestrated by Capsuleer pilots alone is a powerful argument for adding a kill switch to capsules. Piracy has existed long before the pod. So let's just install kill switches in everyone, shall we? Ah, but who has their hand on the switch. You? Heth? The Empress? CONCORD?
Actually, that's not a bad idea. I'd likely be a little less pissed off at CONCORD if they had made some attempt to control their weapons. |
Knoot Enderas
Advenus Classem
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
35
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 16:51:00 -
[30] - Quote
I'll not take lessons on ethics from a True Slave.
All I aspire to is equality before the law. Baseliners may be judged for their crimes and held accountable for their actions. A baseliner who grabs a gun and goes on a killing spree is will be put down by security like a rabied slaver hound, and rightly so. Clones should not be an exception, whether they are fighting in space or fighting on the ground. |
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