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Buhhdust Princess
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
578
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 09:18:00 -
[31] - Quote
GUYS
We have reports that someone has STOLEN 4 titans in EVE!!!!!
PUNCH IT! |

Camper101
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
228
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 09:22:00 -
[32] - Quote
Buhhdust Princess wrote:GUYS
We have reports that someone has STOLEN 4 titans in EVE!!!!!
PUNCH IT!
"Sir, suspect is driving a green Gallente Erebus, license plate "OHGAWDLOL" on Highway 13." "STOP HIM!" "He just doomsday'd our roadblock!" 2013.03.01 13:30:58 notify For participating in the General Discussion Forum Section your trustworthiness has been adjusted by -2.5000.
|

Pepper Mind
Spicy Enterprises
11
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 12:13:00 -
[33] - Quote
He is passing Rancer right now, the suspect might be gatecamping cloaked. |

Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae Blue Sec
202
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 12:46:00 -
[34] - Quote
I podded some dude last night and now Poland has called in an Interpol warrant on me for murder.
Stupid RMT and botting players got their Titans stolen off shared accounts. CCP would be right to ban all accounts related to any IP that those Titans were ever logged into. Kugutsumen - My signature insures that my post is always read by an ISD or Dev, does yours? |

Rubenson
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 10:40:00 -
[35] - Quote
Isn't it against rules to give your account credentials to somebody else? |

Kagura Nikon
Emptiness.
16
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 12:05:00 -
[36] - Quote
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:Oh noes! The polish authorities are going to get me  But then they'll read the EULA and learn that everything in Eve is the property of CCP and they really don't give a crap about those pixels 
Not the stealing but logging in someone else name is considered illegal in several countries. Where I live its classified as fake personification (any use of other person login and password in any system would be) and can get you up to 2 years in jail. So depending on the laws of that country, that might be something. |

Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae Blue Sec
203
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 13:01:00 -
[37] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:Oh noes! The polish authorities are going to get me  But then they'll read the EULA and learn that everything in Eve is the property of CCP and they really don't give a crap about those pixels  Not the stealing but logging in someone else name is considered illegal in several countries. Where I live its classified as fake personification (any use of other person login and password in any system would be) and can get you up to 2 years in jail. So depending on the laws of that country, that might be something.
Cool story, shame these Polish noobs were giving passwords out so that when they were offline their allince could run bots on the account. Sharing accounts is considered RMT you'll get banned for it. Kugutsumen - My signature insures that my post is always read by an ISD or Dev, does yours? |

silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1029
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 20:29:00 -
[38] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:Oh noes! The polish authorities are going to get me  But then they'll read the EULA and learn that everything in Eve is the property of CCP and they really don't give a crap about those pixels  Not the stealing but logging in someone else name is considered illegal in several countries. Where I live its classified as fake personification (any use of other person login and password in any system would be) and can get you up to 2 years in jail. So depending on the laws of that country, that might be something. People still aren't reading the article fully. No unlawful logging took place. Pilots on their own accounts were granted access to the POS by an insider.
No matter how many people are fapping to the idea of law enforcement getting involved, no crime was committed. Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Malcanis for CSM8 |

Beachura
Templar Corps Double Tap.
66
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 21:02:00 -
[39] - Quote
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:Anya Klibor wrote:Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:Oh noes! The polish authorities are going to get me  But then they'll read the EULA and learn that everything in Eve is the property of CCP and they really don't give a crap about those pixels  Doesn't matter what the EULA reads. It's virtual currency and virtual goods. Of which you don't have any rights of ownership to because you clicked the "I agree" button.
You're missing one small thing.
Account cracking (I'm quoting the UK version of the law, the computer misuse act). :
Under the assumption that account 'cracking' took place: (Obviously if unauthorized account access did not take place this does not apply, but it seems that an accusation of such has been made)
There are many variations of this legislation in many countries, all with the baseline principle of ' Unauthorised access to computer material.' or 'Unauthorised access with intent to commit or facilitate commission of further offences.'
(Legisation source: Click Me)
Accessing a computer system either physically or remotely without authorisation is a criminal offence in the United Kingdom and a felony in the united states of america, it also happens to be a fairly serious crime throughout the rest of the world.
I don't know if you've figured this out, but accessing an account that does not belong to you 'without authorisation' falls under this set of legislation and the sentence if convicted whilst not life ending, is not exactly any fun. |

silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1030
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 21:18:00 -
[40] - Quote
Beachura wrote:Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:Anya Klibor wrote:Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:Oh noes! The polish authorities are going to get me  But then they'll read the EULA and learn that everything in Eve is the property of CCP and they really don't give a crap about those pixels  Doesn't matter what the EULA reads. It's virtual currency and virtual goods. Of which you don't have any rights of ownership to because you clicked the "I agree" button. You're missing one small thing. Account cracking (I'm quoting the UK version of the law, the computer misuse act). : Under the assumption that account 'cracking' took place: (Obviously if unauthorized account access did not take place this does not apply, but it seems that an accusation of such has been made after reading the article fully. The CEO does accuse the individuals responsible of accessing the account without prior permission.) People make all kinds of wild accusations, but again - if you did indeed read the article fully, you also know what NCdot is claiming. And what is more plausible? Inside job, or account crack? Especially when parties directly involved are calling it an inside job - And the CEO himself admitted that he wasn't directly involved or even online when it went down.
So why do people keep yammering on about account cracking when that's almost certainly a face-saving fantasy created by the CEO of COVEN?
Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Malcanis for CSM8 |

Eram Fidard
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
59
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 22:29:00 -
[41] - Quote
So...the reason people are claiming accounts were 'compromised' (by one/both parties) seems to be unclear.
For those unfamiliar with titans, I can see why you might be confused.
The fact is, somebody had to log in those 4 pilots, to eject from the titans. One does not simply park in space.
So the only thing in question, is whether those accounts were shared (as admitted by c0ven) or accessed 'illegaly' by other parties. But that question doesn't matter.
It all seems pretty damn clear to me, and according to the EULA (and CCP's stated policy on account sharing) there are only two reasonable outcomes:
1. All 4 titan accounts belong to one person, no other people have accessed the accounts = NC. keeps the haul. Nobody gets banned.
2. Some or all of the titan accounts belonged to, or were accessed by, multiple people, with or without authorisation = stolen assets get returned (keep reading), all accounts directly associated with 'account sharing' IPs are banned.
edit: ultimately it's up to CCP what happens here, but if they follow their own policies it can only go one of these two ways. |

Kara Books
Deal with IT.
459
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 04:02:00 -
[42] - Quote
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:Anya Klibor wrote:Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:Oh noes! The polish authorities are going to get me  But then they'll read the EULA and learn that everything in Eve is the property of CCP and they really don't give a crap about those pixels  Doesn't matter what the EULA reads. It's virtual currency and virtual goods. Of which you don't have any rights of ownership to because you clicked the "I agree" button.
In my country all I have to say is a few Magic words "I don't understand the contract" repeat that a few times and the contract is null and void. Furthermore whoever issued the contract must create a new one JUST for the person who doesn't understand the contract, over and over until the person says, I understand the contract and then sign's it.\
Try it at your local used car dealership with the police present some day. |

culo duro
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
46
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 10:46:00 -
[43] - Quote
Kara Books wrote:Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:Anya Klibor wrote:Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:Oh noes! The polish authorities are going to get me  But then they'll read the EULA and learn that everything in Eve is the property of CCP and they really don't give a crap about those pixels  Doesn't matter what the EULA reads. It's virtual currency and virtual goods. Of which you don't have any rights of ownership to because you clicked the "I agree" button. In my country all I have to say is a few Magic words " I don't understand the contract" repeat that a few times and the contract is null and void. Furthermore whoever issued the contract must create a new one JUST for the person who doesn't understand the contract, over and over until the person says, I understand the contract and then sign's it.\ Try it at your local used car dealership with the police present some day.
that would probably work... IF you hadn't signed under already. Where i come from you should have stated that you don't understand the contract before signing under. |

Xylorn Hasher
Sumiyoshi-Kai
99
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 12:11:00 -
[44] - Quote
Josina Higgs wrote:Demolishar wrote:I'd just like to point out that there's a page in Account Management called "Activity Log" which shows the time, date and IP of every instance of the account being logged in. So that's how they got the login stats (assuming the COVEN story to be true!) https://secure.eveonline.com/LoginHistory.aspx Doesn't that just mean they were account sharing, which is against the EULA? So not only has the dude lost 4 titans, AND made himself look stupid by threatening to get the police involved, AND petitionining to get them back to CCP, he may also now get banned? Lol.
Yes, all four accounts with Titan holder alts were shared with other Coven members, which is obviousy against EULA. This wasn't account hacking. Someone inside Coven logged in at 2 AM on those accounts transfered Titans sips to another characters and then self destructed PODs back to Jita. Coven members claim they lost ~600 Bill ISK, which is worth ~1200 PLEXes other word 20.4 tousands of Euro, or around 60 tousands polish zlotys.
Now when this case become a hot news ( even polish media portal wrote an article bout this ) CCP will have to invastigate. The funniest thing is CCP propably will discover huge RMT buisness that was running for years. But all null is about RMT, isn't it?
Cheers All my posts are made shortly after Marihuana-áconsumption. |

Lady Areola Fappington
New Order Logistics CODE.
76
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 12:32:00 -
[45] - Quote
I wonder if CCP will run this like most IT companies I know of.
At my old workplace, the second a customer made any sort of legal "noise", policy was to suspend access to services until the legal issues were worked out. Even if the company wasn't directly involved, if the accusations were made with company service involved, plugs got pulled. Liability and all that jazz.
It would be funny if coven managed to talk themselves into even more account troubles on top of this alleged theft, using the "we're going to the popo!" argument. 315 4 CSM8! |

Xylorn Hasher
Sumiyoshi-Kai
99
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 13:21:00 -
[46] - Quote
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:I wonder if CCP will run this like most IT companies I know of.
At my old workplace, the second a customer made any sort of legal "noise", policy was to suspend access to services until the legal issues were worked out. Even if the company wasn't directly involved, if the accusations were made with company service involved, plugs got pulled. Liability and all that jazz.
It would be funny if coven managed to talk themselves into even more account troubles on top of this alleged theft, using the "we're going to the popo!" argument.
Coven member guy claimed that even 10 diffrent users within Ally had acces to Titan holder alts accounts, so yeah whey all will taste CCP's Ban Hammer propably.
Too bad for them that they started yapping on forums / Evenews24 before thinking all over. Now damage wont end on just 4 Titans, but pull 10 accounts with them aswell. All my posts are made shortly after Marihuana-áconsumption. |

Arcaus Rotrau Romali
Apex Nebula Ventures
30
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 15:21:00 -
[47] - Quote
silens vesica wrote:Haulie Berry wrote:I doubt anyone would care about the stolen titans, but (judging by the story) the way they were stolen could definitely put them on the wrong side of the law. I'm not familiar with Polish statutes but in the US, logging into an account without authorization like that could easily put someone on the wrong side of the computer fraud and abuse act.
Nope. Because no one logged into anyone else's account - Read the whole article. An insider granted access to the POS; the titans were just sitting there, pilotless. All perfectly within the rules and laws. Excellent. 
I didn't finish the thread yet but thank you for pointing this out, I was planning to make a post about it because the other posts were making me tweak a bit. |

flakeys
Arkham Innovations Paper Tiger Coalition
915
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 16:13:00 -
[48] - Quote
Xylorn Hasher wrote:Lady Areola Fappington wrote:I wonder if CCP will run this like most IT companies I know of.
At my old workplace, the second a customer made any sort of legal "noise", policy was to suspend access to services until the legal issues were worked out. Even if the company wasn't directly involved, if the accusations were made with company service involved, plugs got pulled. Liability and all that jazz.
It would be funny if coven managed to talk themselves into even more account troubles on top of this alleged theft, using the "we're going to the popo!" argument. Coven member guy claimed that even 10 diffrent users within Ally had acces to Titan holder alts accounts, so yeah whey all will taste CCP's Ban Hammer propably. Too bad for them that they started yapping on forums / Evenews24 before thinking all over. Now damage wont end on just 4 Titans, but pull 10 accounts with them aswell.
That's assuming it is going to be investigated , because the logs ....
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
|

Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
2745
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 16:54:00 -
[49] - Quote
Damn...I guess wanting to get the RL authorities involved because someone stole their internet space pixels is the ultimate tears.
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |

Alex Grison
Grison Interstellar
231
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 19:47:00 -
[50] - Quote
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:Oh noes! The polish authorities are going to get me  But then they'll read the EULA and learn that everything in Eve is the property of CCP and they really don't give a crap about those pixels 
Quote:The Game is comprised of, without limitation, software code, programs, routines, subroutines, objects, files, data, characters (and items, currency, objects and attributes comprising or associated with a character or an Account), graphics, sound effects, music, animation, video, text, content, layout, design and other information downloaded from and accessible through the System (collectively, the "Game Content"). CCP, its affiliates, licensors and/or suppliers retain all of their right, title and interest (including without limitation all intellectual property rights) in and to the Software, System, Game and all Game Content, and no rights thereto are transferred to you, except for the limited license granted above.
B. Rights to Certain Content
You have no interest in the value of your time spent playing the Game, for example, by the building up of the experience level of your character and the items your character accumulates during your time playing the Game. Your Account, and all attributes of your Account, including all corporations, actions, groups, titles and characters, and all objects, currency and items acquired, developed or delivered by or to characters as a result of play through your Accounts, are the sole and exclusive property of CCP, including any and all copyrights and intellectual property rights in or to any and all of the same, all of which are hereby expressly reserved.
Quote:You may not share your Account with anyone, or allow anyone other than you personally (or your minor child, if you have registered an Account on behalf of your minor child) to access or use your Account. Joint or shared ownership or use of an Account by more than one user is prohibited.
So you have a theft case then? |

Anya Klibor
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
228
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 21:03:00 -
[51] - Quote
Kara Books wrote:Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:Anya Klibor wrote:Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:Oh noes! The polish authorities are going to get me  But then they'll read the EULA and learn that everything in Eve is the property of CCP and they really don't give a crap about those pixels  Doesn't matter what the EULA reads. It's virtual currency and virtual goods. Of which you don't have any rights of ownership to because you clicked the "I agree" button. In my country all I have to say is a few Magic words " I don't understand the contract" repeat that a few times and the contract is null and void. Furthermore whoever issued the contract must create a new one JUST for the person who doesn't understand the contract, over and over until the person says, I understand the contract and then sign's it.\ Try it at your local used car dealership with the police present some day.
You signed the contract when you hit, "I agree". At that point, it doesn't matter if you claim you understand the contract or not--you are legally-responsible for maintaining your end of the agreement. Claiming you don't understand it only applies up until the put your John Hancock on it, or you click the associated button. |

Drake Doe
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
84
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 04:15:00 -
[52] - Quote
Oh how I wish I was the god/goddess whose professionally taken all your tears, oh well *kicks dirt* |

Kaivar Lancer
Federal Defense Union
253
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 05:17:00 -
[53] - Quote
This is why you shouldn't download bots. |

Agent Trask
New Order Logistics CODE.
110
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 05:31:00 -
[54] - Quote
Skorpynekomimi wrote:The real question is the violation of EULA that allowed someone to log into the holding toons.
An informant is quoted in the article as stating that the POS passwords were discovered through in game social engineering.
The EvE EULA allows this ... you can lie all day in vent or mumble about how trustworthy you are.
Unless these folks can prove that an account was actually hacked, they can pound sand.
Join the New Order, buy your permit today, and follow the code.
www.minerbumping.com |

Agent Trask
New Order Logistics CODE.
110
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 05:36:00 -
[55] - Quote
Arcaus Rotrau Romali wrote:
NVM, I don't know enough about titans to really comment here.
Titan 101: Titans cannot dock. So they are either left floating in a POS ( player Owned Station ), or a dedicated Titan pilot character logs off while flying one.
If they are left in a POS, they can be boarded by anyone with access to that POS. POS are either secured by corp membership, or they are secured by a set password.
If the POS contains very valuable items, like Titans, then trusting to Corp membership to keep them secure is foolish.
But passwords are only as secure as your decisions about who to give them to. Join the New Order, buy your permit today, and follow the code.
www.minerbumping.com |

Ra Jackson
BLOOM. Verge of Collapse
160
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 10:20:00 -
[56] - Quote
Moonlit Raid wrote:It has been considered that virtual goods should be treated in much the same way as real goods, because after all, you have paid real money for it.
And who considered this? While we're at it: Please consider my Monopoly money as real money. Because, after all, I paid real money for the game. |

Udonor
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
35
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 10:27:00 -
[57] - Quote
Accounts not hacked == CCP cheers
(in game theft by someone who has voluntarily been given access to game accounts with correct rights to enable theft - great with CCP. Its all economic turnover and grist for engines of PVP conflict. )
Accounts hacked == CCP will ban someone if possible.
(hack == use clearly unrelated IP with normal user IP usage remaining same. Repeated password guessing attemtps would be icing on proof. No evidence suggesting that IP differences are normal users gone on vacation. Nope, successfully stealing account password is not considered legal in game theft by CCP as some suggest - even if clues were found in game. )
Reimbursement for hacked accounts?: Slightly different question.
CCP may use this as public decision point if Titan control accounts were hacked by outside party.
Account sharing against strict EULA sure -- but historically CCP used to give open exception to that when Titans could potentially be attacked while pilot was logged off (many years ago). Always having live pilot was only way to survive.
Not sure that policy has been updated clearly as things have changed. Plus logging of Titan pilot is still an act that may result in finding enemies gathered where you logged off. Better to stay live and moving or under POS shield but able to move around system or cyno out.
CCP could rule that Titans still justify 24x7 live pilots and egg swapping a Titan is understandably too risky on regular basis. Thus CCP might continue to make an exception on account sharing for capitals that cannot dock. However, that exception will not extend to reimbursement if a regular authorized user absconds with ship - and it may not cover hacking due to increased risks. |

Alex Grison
Grison Interstellar
232
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 15:49:00 -
[58] - Quote
Kara Books wrote:Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:Anya Klibor wrote:Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:Oh noes! The polish authorities are going to get me  But then they'll read the EULA and learn that everything in Eve is the property of CCP and they really don't give a crap about those pixels  Doesn't matter what the EULA reads. It's virtual currency and virtual goods. Of which you don't have any rights of ownership to because you clicked the "I agree" button. In my country all I have to say is a few Magic words " I don't understand the contract" repeat that a few times and the contract is null and void. Furthermore whoever issued the contract must create a new one JUST for the person who doesn't understand the contract, over and over until the person says, I understand the contract and then sign's it.\ Try it at your local used car dealership with the police present some day.
kaaraaaaaaaaaaaa
stahpppppppppppp
you signed the contract when you click the button that says " I have read, understand and agree to the terms" |

Kagura Nikon
Emptiness.
17
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 16:29:00 -
[59] - Quote
silens vesica wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:Oh noes! The polish authorities are going to get me  But then they'll read the EULA and learn that everything in Eve is the property of CCP and they really don't give a crap about those pixels  Not the stealing but logging in someone else name is considered illegal in several countries. Where I live its classified as fake personification (any use of other person login and password in any system would be) and can get you up to 2 years in jail. So depending on the laws of that country, that might be something. People still aren't reading the article fully. No unlawful logging took place. Pilots on their own accounts were granted access to the POS by an insider. No matter how many people are fapping to the idea of law enforcement getting involved, no crime was committed.
That is still illegal HERE where I live. If I give you my bank card and its password, and you go to the ATM , log on it , you are accessing the system faking your identity. Its still a crime here even if I helped you, in that case both parts would be involved in the crime. Obviously nothing would happen because the owner of the bank account would not press charges on this case. So for example, If someone from my own country log into my eve account , no matters how he got the password, I can charge him as faking my identity. If he has no criminal background he will get an official legal warning if no damage was done, but if he has some criminal background he can get into trouble. |

Agent Trask
New Order Logistics CODE.
111
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 17:29:00 -
[60] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:
That is still illegal HERE where I live. If I give you my bank card and its password, and you go to the ATM , log on it , you are accessing the system faking your identity. Its still a crime here even if I helped you, in that case both parts would be involved in the crime. Obviously nothing would happen because the owner of the bank account would not press charges on this case. So for example, If someone from my own country log into my eve account , no matters how he got the password, I can charge him as faking my identity. If he has no criminal background he will get an official legal warning if no damage was done, but if he has some criminal background he can get into trouble.
But Mittani.com's informant said that this is NOT what happened.
Someone gave an in-game POS shield password to someone untrustworthy.
In-game ... not a real life account password.
Join the New Order, buy your permit today, and follow the code.
www.minerbumping.com |
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