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Blood good
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Posted - 2005.08.23 11:06:00 -
[1]
Many of my friends dont want to play this game because if you have played this game for 1 year and then someone else starts a new character he will never catch up to the veteran . 1 year SKILL training in this game is a alot.
An idea that i got is, why not make new characters able to train more then one skill at a time, make it 3 or 4 skills UNTIL they come to x number skillpoints, AND/OR they have reached lvl 4 on all skills OR x number skills, after that its normal training again. What do you guys think? whats does CCP think?
Please post your constructive ideas and suggestions.
Thanks.
Bloodgood
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Avon
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Posted - 2005.08.23 11:09:00 -
[2]
Skill points != useable skills
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Pay or pray..er..prey..yeah, pray you aren't prey. Er, just pay. |
Jonis Sinmaker
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Posted - 2005.08.23 11:11:00 -
[3]
Yeah.....how about no. You do that and then you will have an influx of low quality players...we work hard for what we've skilled and that is what makes this game stay alive. Those who have to work for what they have tend to be more mind ful of the game. If you start just giving everything to the no0bs then this will turn into a MMORPG version of counterstrike
Semper Fi,
Jonis- |
Something Random
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Posted - 2005.08.23 11:11:00 -
[4]
Why does everyone new want to have the entire game changed just so they dont have to put there back into it in the same way everyone else before them has had to. ???
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Something Random
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Posted - 2005.08.23 11:12:00 -
[5]
Why does everyone new want to have the entire game changed just so they dont have to put there back into it in the same way everyone else before them has had to. ???
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Marcus Aurelius
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Posted - 2005.08.23 11:13:00 -
[6]
Well, seeing the fact this idea has been cropping up in one form or another once every week for the past two years already, I'd say CCP thinks no.
I understand the feeling, altho it is largely false or based on some incorrect assumption that players have some type of right at equal opportunities even when they start at different times bla bla.
We will now see the usual string of arguements about how it used to be aot harder for new players (which is true), about how it sucks that vets will always have an edge (only true when it comes to high end content), and something about how specialisation si the key for everyone in Eve now, including the veteran players (which is also true).
Wait, I just said al there's to be said, lock please 
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Wanten
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Posted - 2005.08.23 12:18:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Wanten on 23/08/2005 12:19:55
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=115528
This shows the use of advanced skills, to train a skill to to level four with advance skills takes a few days assuming it is not over rank 4 or 5 (???)therefore if a new player trains the correct skills ie gunnery, cap and shield/armour skills to level four he is really on a 5% bonus behind the veteren player, a new player with good lerning skills can if he has the isk quiet easily train the correct skills to seriously challange an older player. Remeber the vast number of skills points a older player will have will also be industry skills and production skills that will only really be useful to an older player. The real deciding factor is ecperience and no one can buy that.
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Fitz Chivalry
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Posted - 2005.08.23 12:19:00 -
[8]
You do not need to have a lot of skills to have fun in the game.
In about a month you can have a reasonable character that can do some mining, some missions and have some fun - you just have to stop worrying about what other people are doing.
Once you get in a player corp you can have just as much fun in pvp by being a semi-suicide tackler than you have from being the guy sniping the target - hell more fun a lot of the time and you dont have to endure the sick feeling you get when a 200m isk ship blows up around you :)
Maybe it would be good if new characters started with a few more base skills but that would just lead to even more alt abuse than you get now so its probably not practicable.
I have been playing now for well over a year and I still cannot refine or build for sh*t and am months away from being able to fly capital ships and have no real desire to do so - smaller ships are easier to get into and more fun IMO.
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Zaldiri
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Posted - 2005.08.23 12:19:00 -
[9]
EVE has diminishing returns on skill training for a reason...
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Admiral of King Frieza's Super Saiyan fleet.
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Summersnow
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Posted - 2005.08.23 12:22:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Summersnow on 23/08/2005 12:23:31
if you've been playing for a year and have friends that want to join in then you should have the experience to guide them into a good training path that does catch them up QUICK.
The trick is to PICK A SHIP.
Figure out what mods it needs and what skills those mods require and train just those.
if it armor tanks, dont train shield skills
If it shield tanks, dont train armor
look for mod alternates to get around your shortcomings in training. got cap problems on a shield tank, look at the gisti booster. expensive but the cap savings are huge.
The more I experience in this game the more I realize that at any given time as little as 10-20% of my skillpoints actually come into play on any given ship.
Play with the Character Manager Program from eve-I for a bit and your friends might be suprised when you show them how little time it can take to get into a nice ship.
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Wild Rho
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Posted - 2005.08.23 12:25:00 -
[11]
Fine if the new players are willing to pay the total sum of monthly subs that the older veteran players have paid this far for their characters.
A bit dramatic I know but I think it gets the point across.
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Daxes
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Posted - 2005.08.23 12:28:00 -
[12]
 Originally by: Zaldiri
EVE has diminishing returns on skill training for a reason...
dimishing returns? can u say T2 items?
The whole lvl5 requirements for T2 items screwed the whole skill system.
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Tony Fats
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Posted - 2005.08.23 12:32:00 -
[13]
Eve is better off without the players that cant get past the "but I cant catch up to veterans" schpiel.
It really does get old hearing this same garbage every day. Or the people whining about +3 to "keep up."
I thought this was supposed to be a game for mature and intelligent people, where are we finding these whiney tards. I know what it is, some of you play wow (as I do) and decided to drag your guild back to eve when you quit wow.
Well don't. We dont need that type of player to dumb the game down and turn it into space everquest.
For the tenth time, you can be competative in Eve in a very short time.
THere will always be people older than you, and people younger than you, just like in real life.
Once you have every skill you want, at maybe 10 or 15 mil sp, are you gonna stop training? No, you're gonna keep training miscellaneous crap. Well, thats what these 40 mil sp players are, they have everything they want, now they're training miscellaneous junk they might never use.
If you're fighting some guy in a BS 1 on 1, you're facing basically 10 mil sp, about 8 months of training. All his industry stuff, the ability to fly 50 other ships, perfect refine rate, uber science agent skills, perfect mining skills, none of it come into play, unless he decides to stop the fight and challenge you to a mining contest, then he might win.
IT DOESNT F*CKING MATTER because %90 of the population dont even want to travel outside of empire. They want to sit in 1.0 and mine with large barge, thats why you got ppl whining every single day about "ore thief."
The way the majority of the players play this game, a newbie can drive a large barge in about 2 months, and have stone cold refine skills in about 6 months and be doing the same thing.
Grow up.
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Gias Soreno
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Posted - 2005.08.23 12:34:00 -
[14]
As a new player, I can quite safely say I'm happy with the skills system. The pleasuree and fun for me come from building up my character by myself and the social interaction. I see scores of new players asking for ISK and skills to get them started but the fun is in doing it yourself.
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Nafri
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Posted - 2005.08.23 12:37:00 -
[15]
See, you have advanced learning skills from the beginning, you know what attributes to choose and actual, you dont have to train all kind of stuff cause your original choice got nerfed to hell and you had to train a different race.
I lost about 8 million SP thx to that ****
Your bla bla hit bla bla for bla bla damage. Wanna have some bubu now? |
Serpensis
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Posted - 2005.08.23 12:38:00 -
[16]
The day a new player can get 9.5M skillpoints when signing up, is the day I am signing off.
Why should new players who sign up now, have better conditions than those who signed up as new players a year ago? Stupid idea, imho.
--
"Fear accompanies the possibility of death,
calm sheperds its certainty." |
Kar Brogan
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Posted - 2005.08.23 12:40:00 -
[17]
Another one of these threads hu? If you want one of my more verbally diaretic replys go back a few pages to the last such thread.
But in short:-
Player Skills > Trained Skills
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Sonorra Baki
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Posted - 2005.08.23 12:40:00 -
[18]
My main has soon played this game for a year.
I have two accounts.
I have just ditched my 1st alt who had around 6 mil SP's, and started a new char with very good attriutes for what I wanna use him for.
Now, would I as a semi-vet with all my knowledge about skills and attributes, start an entire new char after 1 year, if I knew he was useless for the next whole year ???
No!
I do it because i KNOW that he will be a very capable frig char in only 2-3 months, and that "the edge" is not decided by having small autocannon spec lvl 5, but comes from the year of combat experience I have.
So: Forget about "the gap". Get out there.. die a lot, and learn about staying cool and fit a boat correctly. Get good friends. Have fun. Thats what it is about. not 10 mil in gunnery.
2 destroyers can be > 1 ceptor. thats the same as 1 mil isk > 15mil
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Vilserx
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Posted - 2005.08.23 12:45:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Nafri
See, you have advanced learning skills from the beginning, you know what attributes to choose and actual, you dont have to train all kind of stuff cause your original choice got nerfed to hell and you had to train a different race.
I lost about 8 million SP thx to that ****
And older players have Advanced Learning too so the gap doesn't get smaller.
Most new players don't know what attributes to choose as the Char. creation doesn't tell you how important each one is and how important the attribute allocation is.
You don't have to train all kind of stuff either if you don't want to.
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AlphaM
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Posted - 2005.08.23 12:52:00 -
[20]
This is my 2nd char, when i first started i made a miner/production character and trained a load of skills in most catagories but now he is concentrating on pruduction and mining.
This character is geared for combat, i will be flying frigs only for months and im having loads of fun in my kestrel/merlins. specialising in missiles. There is lots of fun to be had frigates, seems most people are in a rush to be uber, But to me im just playing the game, my goal is not to be uber its to have fun.
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Moghydin
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Posted - 2005.08.23 13:03:00 -
[21]
The gap between vets and n00bs does matter. Why? Because in low sec this game IS Counterstrike in spaceships. And faster ISK acquiring and skill leaning can be a difference between putting some resistance and doing something interesting or grind and being a punching bag for gankers.
When someone shoots you in low sec and you ask "Why?" The answer that you'll most probably get is "Because they could! Now go arrange 100 ppl in the corp and give them some justice. You can't? Then STFU N00B." This attitude and the hardcore nature of PvP means that ISK and skills are most important things. ISK allow you to buy all the cool staff and skills allow you to use it.
And, btw, please don't tell me about a diminishing returnes. T II destroyed it and T III will make it a mockery. I also will consider a suggestion that newer players can pay the amount of $ that vets payed over time and get SP's accordingly. 2 years will mean $360, that's not a huge amount of money to be competitive.
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Neon Genesis
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Posted - 2005.08.23 13:04:00 -
[22]
Pls no more dicussion about this.
Apart from the obvious difference of a 2 year player and a 1 month player, eve is more about thinking than skillpoints.
You could have 100 million skillpoints and still be an utter noob 
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There, i just contributed nothing to your thread
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.08.23 13:09:00 -
[23]
CCP have addressed this in an indirect way more skill implants are now dropping more than every before and newbie players should be using em and losing them more often they do speed up youre game play and skill advancement
Other option is to reduce the skill learning times by 20% to give newbies a small advantage.
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Vilserx
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Posted - 2005.08.23 13:10:00 -
[24]
Originally by: sonofollo
CCP have addressed this in an indirect way more skill implants are now dropping more than every before and newbie players should be using em and losing them more often they do speed up youre game play and skill advancement
Yet they're still expensive and unaffordable for new players whilst they're easy to get hold of for 'vets.'
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Harisdrop
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Posted - 2005.08.23 13:34:00 -
[25]
You should camp and gain experience like the rest of us. Grind the skillpoints and buy the uber laser gun II
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Does it matter why, its when is more crucial!
Sometimes you dont worry about today when its thursday. |
sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.08.23 13:35:00 -
[26]
yeah as the last poster said its a very long term game if its not for u try a short term game :)
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Kin Hanyerec
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Posted - 2005.08.23 13:43:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Kin Hanyerec on 23/08/2005 13:48:27
Originally by: Vilserx
Originally by: sonofollo
CCP have addressed this in an indirect way more skill implants are now dropping more than every before and newbie players should be using em and losing them more often they do speed up youre game play and skill advancement
Yet they're still expensive and unaffordable for new players whilst they're easy to get hold of for 'vets.'
not really, 90% of the money i make come from low sp alts (60k to 5m sp).
You are a 'vet' for your experience of the game not for your sps 
edit : and my 30m sp doesn't change the fact that i'm a noob in pvp 
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.08.23 13:43:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Vilserx
Yet they're still expensive and unaffordable for new players whilst they're easy to get hold of for 'vets.'
Good.
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RedlegSA
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Posted - 2005.08.23 13:44:00 -
[29]
Edited by: RedlegSA on 23/08/2005 13:45:18
Originally by: Gias Soreno
As a new player, I can quite safely say I'm happy with the skills system. The pleasuree and fun for me come from building up my character by myself and the social interaction. I see scores of new players asking for ISK and skills to get them started but the fun is in doing it yourself.
I agree with this. I also am a new player (about a month so far) and find no problems with competition. Frankly, I expect older players to have access to better stuff, I have to build my character to compete in the arenas that interest me - that will take time. As I progress, I can persue greater challenges and compete against higher and higher level players. Right now I am limited to more or less safe areas. Once I have the skills and equipment I can venture further out. All of this is as I expected it to be.
A game where I could just go out and blow everyone up right off the bat would be boring I think - Right now I really have to weigh the consequences and realative strenghts as well as future relations with others. A much richer experience than online FPS games, I think.
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Vilserx
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Posted - 2005.08.23 13:56:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Winterblink
Originally by: Vilserx
Yet they're still expensive and unaffordable for new players whilst they're easy to get hold of for 'vets.'
Good.
I was just saying that citing implants as more of a benefit to new players rather than vets is wrong. (IMO)
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