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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 11 post(s) |
Ta'liq Browson
Aurora Industrial Dynamics Dire Wolf Enterprises
0
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Posted - 2013.03.18 15:52:00 -
[31] - Quote
I apologize for being ignorant - but what is RMT? I know if I don't know what it is then I am probably not doing it, but I like to ask anyways to be sure. |
Henry Haphorn
Kid's Logistics Inc
417
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 15:53:00 -
[32] - Quote
mynnna wrote:So here's a concern I have. In the past, there have been false positives that pop up - people wrongfully banned because (to use the example from one instance involving a fellow pilot) they legitimately bought a character through the forums which had been involved in RMT, and so were caught up in the sweep. Reversing these bans has been an agonizing process, in no small part due to their communications more or less being ignored by your team.
I understand that many botters and RMTers will protest their innocence as a matter of course which can make "ignore everything" an appealing option, but in the case I referred to above, the person was on the verge of quitting before loud and public action by his CEO on his behalf finally prompted a response. I have to imagine there may be other cases where wrongfully banned people had no one looking out for them and simply quit instead.
My question to you then is, what do you plan to do about this?
That is a legit concern.
However, I can see how complicated it can be if you take into account the possibility that the person petitioning the ban may be lying through their teeth (if they have any) and pretending to be an innocent player. Adapt or Die |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
632
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Posted - 2013.03.18 15:54:00 -
[33] - Quote
Ta'liq Browson wrote:I apologize for being ignorant - but what is RMT? I know if I don't know what it is then I am probably not doing it, but I like to ask anyways to be sure. Real Money Transactions - that is, selling isk for real money (or buying it as the case may be.)
To answer the question that results from this - yes, buying PLEX and selling them ingame is RMT. However, it's CCP sanctioned RMT. Mynnna for CSM8 |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1690
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 15:54:00 -
[34] - Quote
A player who wants to RMT goes to a friend who does not play eve and says:
"Could you start a character in Eve, buy a pile of ISK via RMT, then sell me the character?"
How would CCP stop that from happening, other than swinging the ban hammer even after the character has been sold? http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Henry Haphorn
Kid's Logistics Inc
417
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Posted - 2013.03.18 15:54:00 -
[35] - Quote
Ta'liq Browson wrote:I apologize for being ignorant - but what is RMT? I know if I don't know what it is then I am probably not doing it, but I like to ask anyways to be sure.
Real-Money Trading
An illegal activity (to CCP at least) in which a player sells in-game currency for real-world cash. Adapt or Die |
Jonah Gravenstein
Khalkotauroi Defence Labs
6548
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 15:56:00 -
[36] - Quote
Ta'liq Browson wrote:I apologize for being ignorant - but what is RMT? I know if I don't know what it is then I am probably not doing it, but I like to ask anyways to be sure.
Real Money Trading, basically buying or selling ISK for real currency outside of the official mechanisms such as PLEX or Game Time Codes, it also covers the buying or selling of ingame assets for real currency.
Eve in a nutshell, it's you vs the universe, and every machiavellian space bastard in it. |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
633
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 15:56:00 -
[37] - Quote
Henry Haphorn wrote:
That is a legit concern.
However, I can see how complicated it can be if you take into account the possibility that the person petitioning the ban may be lying through their teeth (if they have any) and pretending to be an innocent player.
That isn't a reason to just consign the genuinely innocent to their fate. Mynnna for CSM8 |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2335
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Posted - 2013.03.18 16:01:00 -
[38] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:A player who wants to RMT goes to a friend who does not play eve and says:
"Could you start a character in Eve, buy a pile of ISK via RMT, then sell me the character?"
How would CCP stop that from happening, other than swinging the ban hammer even after the character has been sold? For one, this would violate the character transfer rules. A character can't have a positive ISK balance or assets prior to account transfer. If you want to buy a pile of ISK via RMT outside of PLEX, at a certain point the transaction is going to be big enough that CCP will see it and check it out. Then you and your supplier both get banned. They'll track down other accounts you own or have worked with and could take those down too. I mean... it's CCPs game. They can go after ISK and leave you with a neg balance.
With regards to CCP Sreegs, I wonder why he left?
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Dramaticus
Goonswarm Federation
374
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Posted - 2013.03.18 16:04:00 -
[39] - Quote
Farewell to the Greatest Goonfucker to walk the land. bring back images |
Jonah Gravenstein
Khalkotauroi Defence Labs
6548
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Posted - 2013.03.18 16:05:00 -
[40] - Quote
Gogela wrote: With regards to CCP Sreegs, I wonder why he left?
Going to Sony I believe, probably got made an offer he couldn't refuse salary wise.
Eve in a nutshell, it's you vs the universe, and every machiavellian space bastard in it. |
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Alx Warlord
SUPERNOVA SOCIETY Fade 2 Black
379
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Posted - 2013.03.18 16:07:00 -
[41] - Quote
As you said that any Idea would be apreciated, I would like you to go to this tread and take a good read.
UNIFIED ACCOUNT THEORY
This could possibly bring the war against bots and RMT to annother level.
The main Idea on this tread is to ask for an analysis on this pssibility, that could increase profit, make players life easier, allow better interaction between CCP and the player(not only the account) and prevent botting by increasing the consequences. ( hitting not with a ban hamer, but with an Viking Ban Axe cutting trough all chars that belong to the Eula breaker.) Please read this! > New POS system (Block Built) Please read this! > Refining and Reprocess Revamp |
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
609
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Posted - 2013.03.18 16:19:00 -
[42] - Quote
o7 Sreegs. Goonswarm will be glad to have their Darius JOHNSON back. Don't worry about posting with your main! -áPost with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." |
Krall Hoar
Winds of Dawn Kraken.
6
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Posted - 2013.03.18 16:32:00 -
[43] - Quote
Down with the bots! I like your work on banning bots very much, especially the new 2strike policy Thanks for making the worlds best game better every day |
Samroski
Games Inc.
173
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Posted - 2013.03.18 16:33:00 -
[44] - Quote
Good work done CCP! Steps in the right direction. Keep tightening the screws, and get rid of them all! Happiness is a warm gun, mama. |
Marxius Imate
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.03.18 16:33:00 -
[45] - Quote
I've always been curious about how the RMT/Negative wallet works. If someone sells something to a RMTer, either by accident or supposed collusion (lol eve money laundering), how far do you trace the funds? For example:
An alt Scumbag 1 (SB1): RMTs say 1 Billion The main Scumbag 2 (SB2): Sells SB1 an item worth ~1 Billion on market. SB1: Then trades that item to a another alt/player (SB3) SB3: Sells that item to a random buyer in Jita at nearly the same price (nominal loss on "high ticket" items) SB3: Gives money to SB2 SB2: Now has the RMTed money and a bit of occurs. SB1: Gets banned/negative walleted, but who cares, he was an alt.
Sorry if that's complicated, I just absolutely hope the entire chain is brought down, RMTer is literally the death of economies in games. |
Dramaticus
Goonswarm Federation
374
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 16:50:00 -
[46] - Quote
Marxius Imate wrote:I've always been curious about how the RMT/Negative wallet works. If someone sells something to a RMTer, either by accident or supposed collusion (lol eve money laundering), how far do you trace the funds? For example:
An alt Scumbag 1 (SB1): RMTs say 1 Billion The main Scumbag 2 (SB2): Sells SB1 an item worth ~1 Billion on market. SB1: Then trades that item to a another alt/player (SB3) SB3: Sells that item to a random buyer in Jita at nearly the same price (nominal loss on "high ticket" items) SB3: Gives money to SB2 SB2: Now has the RMTed money and a bit of occurs. SB1: Gets banned/negative walleted, but who cares, he was an alt.
Sorry if that's complicated, I just absolutely hope the entire chain is brought down, RMTer is literally the death of economies in games.
The more complicated you make reversing the RMT the quicker they'll just ban accounts related and call it a day. bring back images |
Ziranda Hakuli
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
148
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Posted - 2013.03.18 16:58:00 -
[47] - Quote
I am happy to see that the BOT war is falling under more strict punishments. YAY!!!
I am curious on this as other folks in Eve have been curious as well. There is a software called ISBOXER that runs client side where it managed your clients with single key activation. Will this also be addressed in some fashion? Some folks feel that this is wrong. Will there be a new stance on t his where some of these ISBOXER users control anywhere from 4 to 20 some odd toons only to farm isk. Not talking about mining but making ISK from farming in null sec anomalies to empire mission running of some type.
Please I like to hear your thoughts on this |
Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
845
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Posted - 2013.03.18 16:59:00 -
[48] - Quote
CCP Stillman wrote: But client modification right now are anything that injects/touches the running EVE process. That is, reads or writes memory into it, injects and executes code. Basically anything that modifies the client to change the client or extract information that's not normally accessible. That includes bots of course.
that description also applies to widely used tool such as the Mumble/Teamspeak overlay and fraps TEST alt - don't trust. |
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
443
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Posted - 2013.03.18 16:59:00 -
[49] - Quote
CCP Stillman wrote:Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:CCP Peligro wrote:spookydonut wrote:Firstly, who the hell is CCP Peligro?
Hi! That would be me. I've been at CCP since April 2006, but my work is done largely behind the scenes, so you might not have heard of me. My main responsibilities within Team Security is to analyze and act on data. In other words he's the brains of the outfit. And he does all the heavy lifting too. He is, after all, The Enforcer Of The LawGäó
He's Judge Peligro.
If you bother about infosec you should know (hint, there's a rather awkward video available ;)).
But when it comes to RMT CCP has no option.
If you can buy virtual stuff and then sell them then CCP is running a bank, and if do they have to follow the rules of a bank.
(Queue bad jokes about Icelandic banks)
But it's what almost every producer in the world fear (one exception, see if you can remember their name).
CCP Eterne: Silly player, ALL devs are evil.
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CCP Stillman
C C P C C P Alliance
418
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Posted - 2013.03.18 17:10:00 -
[50] - Quote
Vera Algaert wrote:CCP Stillman wrote: But client modification right now are anything that injects/touches the running EVE process. That is, reads or writes memory into it, injects and executes code. Basically anything that modifies the client to change the client or extract information that's not normally accessible. That includes bots of course.
that description also applies to widely used tool such as the Mumble/Teamspeak overlay and fraps
To some degree, it does. But in some ways, it also doesn't. But do you really think we want to ban people using fraps or mumble/teamspeak? That'd be silly Just a random dude in Team Security. |
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eXeler0n
The Quafe Saints
295
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Posted - 2013.03.18 17:15:00 -
[51] - Quote
Ziranda Hakuli wrote:I am happy to see that the BOT war is falling under more strict punishments. YAY!!!
I am curious on this as other folks in Eve have been curious as well. There is a software called ISBOXER that runs client side where it managed your clients with single key activation. Will this also be addressed in some fashion? Some folks feel that this is wrong. Will there be a new stance on t his where some of these ISBOXER users control anywhere from 4 to 20 some odd toons only to farm isk. Not talking about mining but making ISK from farming in null sec anomalies to empire mission running of some type.
Please I like to hear your thoughts on this
I like to hear more about this too! Run 10 accounts by playing one? 9 Accounts are played by IS Boxer, not the player. eXeler0n http://quafe.de
Weisheit des Tages: Logik und Vernunft sind nicht Jedermanns Sache. |
Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
129
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 17:16:00 -
[52] - Quote
DevBlog wrote:3rd strikes have become rare since the end of Q3, and even then it was sporadic
Yup, but there's a massive spike on the first week of July. Care to comment on that? Any particular reason?
Malcanis for CSM 8 Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Labs Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene. |
Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
845
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 17:16:00 -
[53] - Quote
CCP Stillman wrote:Vera Algaert wrote:CCP Stillman wrote: But client modification right now are anything that injects/touches the running EVE process. That is, reads or writes memory into it, injects and executes code. Basically anything that modifies the client to change the client or extract information that's not normally accessible. That includes bots of course.
that description also applies to widely used tool such as the Mumble/Teamspeak overlay and fraps To some degree, it does. But in some ways, it also doesn't. But do you really think we want to ban people using fraps or mumble/teamspeak? That'd be silly I don't know... after all you're not going to whitelist specific programs
(with 100% less tongue-in-cheekness: I am a bit afraid that one day you will introduce a poorly tested client integrity check that accidentally flags tools such as the ones I mentioned and that getting the permabans undone will be a massive hassle.) TEST alt - don't trust. |
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CCP Stillman
C C P C C P Alliance
418
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Posted - 2013.03.18 17:21:00 -
[54] - Quote
Vera Algaert wrote:CCP Stillman wrote:Vera Algaert wrote:CCP Stillman wrote: But client modification right now are anything that injects/touches the running EVE process. That is, reads or writes memory into it, injects and executes code. Basically anything that modifies the client to change the client or extract information that's not normally accessible. That includes bots of course.
that description also applies to widely used tool such as the Mumble/Teamspeak overlay and fraps To some degree, it does. But in some ways, it also doesn't. But do you really think we want to ban people using fraps or mumble/teamspeak? That'd be silly I don't know... after all you're not going to whitelist specific programs (with 100% less tongue-in-cheekness: I am a bit afraid that one day you will introduce a poorly tested client integrity check that accidentally flags tools such as the ones I mentioned and that getting the permabans undone will be a massive hassle.) I understand your concern. We'll address that concern in more detail in the possibly near future when it's relevant :) Just a random dude in Team Security. |
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jonnykefka
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
191
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 17:22:00 -
[55] - Quote
CCP Stillman wrote:Vera Algaert wrote:CCP Stillman wrote: But client modification right now are anything that injects/touches the running EVE process. That is, reads or writes memory into it, injects and executes code. Basically anything that modifies the client to change the client or extract information that's not normally accessible. That includes bots of course.
that description also applies to widely used tool such as the Mumble/Teamspeak overlay and fraps To some degree, it does. But in some ways, it also doesn't. But do you really think we want to ban people using fraps or mumble/teamspeak? That'd be silly
I'm on board with how you're approaching this, I think it's a nice catch-all, but it would also be nice if there were a slightly more explicit rules set.
For example "programs that automatically call functions within EVE that are intended to require player input" or "programs that read information out of the client not normally accessible through the UI."
The only reason for this is that it makes the players feel like they're on slightly more stable ground. The concern is that CCP could pull an EA, who have recently declared a "mod" that allowed offline SimCity play to instead be a "hack", with no clear definition for either. Similarly, while the "that'd be silly" response is reassuring that this certainly won't happen anytime in the immediate future, the door is left open for similar gray areas to be suddenly and nastily declared black, and because of the vagueness of the language and the lack of accompanying guidelines, the grey area is kind of big.
Just a thought. It doesn't even have to be a formal part of the EULA, just a set of guidelines in the wiki or somewhere that enterprising (and well-intended) players developing tools could refer to and gauge whether they're in danger of going over the line.
EDIT: On a different note, with Sreegs gone, who will tend to the Edge of Glory? |
Sephira Galamore
Inner Beard Society
99
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Posted - 2013.03.18 17:36:00 -
[56] - Quote
jonnykefka wrote:EDIT: On a different note, with Sreegs gone, who will tend to the Edge of Glory?
The title " The Enforcer Of The LawGäó" didn't give that away? |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
637
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Posted - 2013.03.18 17:44:00 -
[57] - Quote
CCP Stillman wrote:Vera Algaert wrote:CCP Stillman wrote:Vera Algaert wrote:CCP Stillman wrote: But client modification right now are anything that injects/touches the running EVE process. That is, reads or writes memory into it, injects and executes code. Basically anything that modifies the client to change the client or extract information that's not normally accessible. That includes bots of course.
that description also applies to widely used tool such as the Mumble/Teamspeak overlay and fraps To some degree, it does. But in some ways, it also doesn't. But do you really think we want to ban people using fraps or mumble/teamspeak? That'd be silly I don't know... after all you're not going to whitelist specific programs (with 100% less tongue-in-cheekness: I am a bit afraid that one day you will introduce a poorly tested client integrity check that accidentally flags tools such as the ones I mentioned and that getting the permabans undone will be a massive hassle.) I understand your concern. We'll address that concern in more detail in the possibly near future when it's relevant :) Will you also address the concern I voiced on the previous page, namely the one where instances of innocent players being wrongfully banned was basically swept under the rug and ignored until loudly and publicly called on it? Because that past action makes Vera's concerns all the more troublesome. Mynnna for CSM8 |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
3757
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Posted - 2013.03.18 17:46:00 -
[58] - Quote
CCP Stillman wrote:Vera Algaert wrote:CCP Stillman wrote:Vera Algaert wrote:CCP Stillman wrote: But client modification right now are anything that injects/touches the running EVE process. That is, reads or writes memory into it, injects and executes code. Basically anything that modifies the client to change the client or extract information that's not normally accessible. That includes bots of course.
that description also applies to widely used tool such as the Mumble/Teamspeak overlay and fraps To some degree, it does. But in some ways, it also doesn't. But do you really think we want to ban people using fraps or mumble/teamspeak? That'd be silly I don't know... after all you're not going to whitelist specific programs (with 100% less tongue-in-cheekness: I am a bit afraid that one day you will introduce a poorly tested client integrity check that accidentally flags tools such as the ones I mentioned and that getting the permabans undone will be a massive hassle.) I understand your concern. We'll address that concern in more detail in the possibly near future when it's relevant :) Excellent.
I think you are well aware that most of us are into EvE deep enough to want to use simple tools that allow us to play the game more efficiently or conveniently... we just don't want to inadvertantly touch anything that is considered taboo.
I know most things will be just common sense (as per the examples listed above) but there are a few that fall into a grey area... and are things most of us would happily avoid as long as we know they are off limits.
Just trying to play fair and square. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1690
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 17:47:00 -
[59] - Quote
eXeler0n wrote:Ziranda Hakuli wrote:I am happy to see that the BOT war is falling under more strict punishments. YAY!!!
I am curious on this as other folks in Eve have been curious as well. There is a software called ISBOXER that runs client side where it managed your clients with single key activation. Will this also be addressed in some fashion? Some folks feel that this is wrong. Will there be a new stance on t his where some of these ISBOXER users control anywhere from 4 to 20 some odd toons only to farm isk. Not talking about mining but making ISK from farming in null sec anomalies to empire mission running of some type.
Please I like to hear your thoughts on this I like to hear more about this too! Run 10 accounts by playing one? 9 Accounts are played by IS Boxer, not the player. +1 Key re-broadcasters are becoming more of an issue. Note the issue is NOT "are they bots?" its "do they allow for patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play?"
Or more directly "Should using ISBOXER and the like be considered ordinary game play?" Currently the answer is "Yes", but I think that needs to be changed to "No". http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Azami Nevinyrall
Carbon Circle Tactical Narcotics Team
740
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 17:48:00 -
[60] - Quote
Lapine Davion wrote:o7 Sreegs. Goonswarm will be glad to have their Darius JOHNSON back. He left? I'm not entirely clear on the point of this, but I do have a sudden urge to jump in a catalyst and blow up a miner. Twitter! - @AzamiNevinyrall I'm half expecting a ban for this post. |
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