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Astroyka
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
110
   |
Posted - 2013.03.18 16:33:00 -
[1] - Quote
So basically, they can go to Amarr so long as they are "willingly Reclaimed", are they aware that it takes generations to become "Reclaimed" or are they a special case unlike the countless Matri currently enslaved on the Reclamation path?
I assume that the small print will probably mention something to this effect, essentially enslaving the soldiers. Does this mean Amarr will forego future slave raids into Matri space if the abundance of clone soldiers is enough??
Astroyka - A Mirkur Draug'Tyr pilot, fighting against slavery in New Eden
www.astroyka.net |
Astroyka
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
110
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 16:52:00 -
[2] - Quote
So Amarr is willing to have ranks of faux believers, because that's what will happen...
> "Welcome to Amarr; Do you believe in our god?"
< "Yes I do [crosses fingers]"
> "Here are your papers, now go with the grace of God and do his bidding"
< "Woot, that was easy"
More like:
> "Welcome to Amarr; Do you believe in our god?"
< "Nope, I'm an atheist"
> "Not a problem, just go with this nice man who will look after you"
< "Woot, that was easy"
> "Another slave for the Empire; NEXT"
Astroyka - A Mirkur Draug'Tyr pilot, fighting against slavery in New Eden
www.astroyka.net |
Astroyka
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
111
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 17:05:00 -
[3] - Quote
Between a rock and hard place I'm pretty sure a clone solider would fake his or her belief of a God if it meant he/she was given sanctuary and all the benefits of the empire.
You must see that, surely?
I really do doubt Amarr will turn away the "unwilling", so what happens to those?
Be careful, I smell hypocrisy around the corner.
Astroyka - A Mirkur Draug'Tyr pilot, fighting against slavery in New Eden
www.astroyka.net |
Astroyka
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
111
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 17:17:00 -
[4] - Quote
And there we have the hypocrisy ... It's fine, its the same old argument about what constitutes reclamation, Matari can't be automagically reclaimed because scripture states it, but anyone else can be reclaimed at a drop of a hat even if they don't believe.
Carry on. Lets see how the news story progresses.
Astroyka - A Mirkur Draug'Tyr pilot, fighting against slavery in New Eden
www.astroyka.net |
Astroyka
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
111
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 17:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
So there will be a period of time (how many generations?) before they are declared reclaimed, yes? Which is faith based, yes? So, those that still want sanctuary but not the faith will endure what? ... The same fate as the Matari?
Of course you don't see the hypocrisy, the hypocrite never does.
Astroyka - A Mirkur Draug'Tyr pilot, fighting against slavery in New Eden
www.astroyka.net |
Astroyka
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
111
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 17:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
Kares Shahzu wrote:Scripture states nothing of the sort regarding the Minmatar.
Really? You sure about that? The scriptures may not be explicit in saying "Thou shal't go reclaim the Minmatar", but scripture is used for the reason for enslaving the Matari.
I'm no theologian of course.
Astroyka - A Mirkur Draug'Tyr pilot, fighting against slavery in New Eden
www.astroyka.net |
Astroyka
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
111
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 17:56:00 -
[7] - Quote
Don't take it personal, other than you being an Amarr and part of the bigger issue. I'm used to deaf ears on such matters of Reclaiming, God and the scriptures. Blind belief will always lead to a hypocritical path, its inevitable.
As stated before, lets see how the news story plays out. Weather I'm right or wrong, time will tell.
Astroyka - A Mirkur Draug'Tyr pilot, fighting against slavery in New Eden
www.astroyka.net |
Astroyka
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
111
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 18:03:00 -
[8] - Quote
Kares Shahzu wrote:Astroyka wrote:Kares Shahzu wrote:Scripture states nothing of the sort regarding the Minmatar. Really? You sure about that? The scriptures may not be explicit in saying "Thou shal't go reclaim the Minmatar", but scripture is used for the reason for enslaving the Matari. I'm no theologian of course. No, the Scriptures are not the justification for enslavement of the Minmatar. They are the justification for the Reclaiming. Enslavement is a process of the Reclamation chosen and instituted by the Amarr and the Empire, not the Scriptures. There are passages that could be argued to be in support of slavery, but the actual institution of slavery is not outlined in the Scriptures.
Can you see the contradictions in your own statement? Do I really need to hold your hand through it?
Its a sad day indeed when I point an Amarrian to his own scriptures. Search IGS and you WILL find many stories and comments where scripture has been used as the basis for their arguments regarding slavery.
Good luck to any clone solider willing (or otherwise) to be reclaimed.
Astroyka - A Mirkur Draug'Tyr pilot, fighting against slavery in New Eden
www.astroyka.net |
Astroyka
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
111
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 18:07:00 -
[9] - Quote
Silas Vitalia wrote:Astroyka wrote:
I'm no theologian of course.
You're no debater either. The subject is clearly above your reading comprehension level, best run along.
Thank you for your wise words and insightful comments on the subject. No actual comment to make on the topic? Just inane statements?
Astroyka - A Mirkur Draug'Tyr pilot, fighting against slavery in New Eden
www.astroyka.net |
Astroyka
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
111
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 18:28:00 -
[10] - Quote
Samira Kernher wrote:The Matari that willingly embraced God were not enslaved. That is why the Mandate exists. That the rest of the Matari were enslaved, and for so long, was solely a result of their stubbornness and resistance.
Those clone soldiers who take up Her Imperial Majesty's offer will not be enslaved, but nor will they be made citizens "at the drop of a hat". All who live in the Empire must adhere to the faith, or be in the process of being taught the faith. There are many foreigners in the Empire came here of their own free will, who embraced the faith willingly, and were thus never enslaved. Those clone soldiers who accept the offer will, along with receiving care and support for their conditions, be also receiving spiritual education, and both of these will happen in the sanctuary colonies that Her Imperial Majesty will be establishing.
Thank you, Samira, for your insight.
I'll leave this here for posterity:
Samira Kernher wrote:The Reclaiming includes slavery as one method of conversion, for those that are defiant and unwilling to give themselves to God
Astroyka - A Mirkur Draug'Tyr pilot, fighting against slavery in New Eden
www.astroyka.net |
Astroyka
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
111
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 19:01:00 -
[11] - Quote
Silas Vitalia wrote:Several Imperial faithful have clearly stated why you are incorrect, no need to add to that chorus.
Incorrect about what? The assumption that the soldiers may be on the path to slavery? Sure, I'll concede that, I can't see into the future on how the soliders will be treated. Isn't that the debate?
Silas Vitalia wrote:That you refuse to comprehend, or I suspect rather lack the proper neurons to make the appropriate connections, is perhaps a deficiency you should look into before worming your way into an Amarr theology discussion.
But please, keep telling us why you know more about the Reclaiming than the Reclaimers.
Ouch....
I can only recount using comments, statements and stories I've read and been privy to via GalNet, IGS and other public sources and relay that as understanding of your ways. If anything, you should berate your brothers and sisters for their lack of understanding and misleading the rest of New Eden and IGS on such matters so we would all be clear on your beliefs.
Oh, but wait, faith can be interpreted by each believer in so many ways, no wonder outsiders are confused.
Astroyka - A Mirkur Draug'Tyr pilot, fighting against slavery in New Eden
www.astroyka.net |
Astroyka
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
112
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 19:24:00 -
[12] - Quote
Silas Vitalia wrote:Actually it can't. For True Believers there is but a single valid interpretation at any time; this view is disseminated in the Empire through the Theology Council. They... frown upon each believer trying to interpret the Faith in their own way. The message gets diluted that way, you see.
I'm sure you can concede that there are many of your brothers and sisters commenting on IGS that have their own interpretation of your faith, which in-turn confuses those of us trying to understand the Matari question.
No offence, but there are less "True Believers" speaking clarity than there are "Interpreters".
Silas Vitalia wrote:If you actually -are- curious about the misguided Imperial faith you should contact one of the Imperials in this thread.
Or come over for a cocktail, I'll set you straight.
While I thank you for your offer, and those that have made the same in the past, I will state the same reasons why I can't accept:
1) My militia status wouldn't go down too well with your navy.
2) My adverse reaction if a slave served me a cocktail.
3) My extremely busy diary.
Astroyka - A Mirkur Draug'Tyr pilot, fighting against slavery in New Eden
www.astroyka.net |
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