Dev soundwave wrote.

"Yeah my point is that I don't think they should be profitable to gank. I think it should be possible, but not necessarily profitable (profitable might be the wrong word, but more that the expenses should be higher for the attacker than the defender)."

What is everyones opinion?

Suicide ganking always has the possibility to be profitable, so long as people continue to put more and more isk into their ships. There is nothing you can really do to change that. However removing insurance payouts for concord kills is one way to raise the bar on what actually is profitable and what isn't. Plus to me, it always seemed like insurance fraud, which no actual company would payout on.

Last gank times I have been involved in, the average loot I'd get was 8M+ a pop. 2 T1 fitted catalysts for 1 tanked Mack = still profitable. And it's Macks that were the "queens of AFK", even before the revamp, as they were the ices specialized ship so those are a fair meter.

while 34k EHP might not be profitable for the ganker in that instance, what happens when the ganker's market toon now has sold off another 100m trit at 7.xx ISK/unit, since the now-ganked miner was unable to set an order for 10m trit at (7.xx -0.01).

Sure, we could say "just wait for that 1m trit to sell out" ... but in the meantime, that's ~70m ISK that's going to a someone else, and not the ganker's wallet.

As long as that 70m is still more than the "cost" of the gank ... seems like profit works as a motivator.

Because ganking should be out of revenge or spite not profit. Also a person shouldnt have to have all these friends online to undock. A good alpha strike wont stop the gank or allow time for ecm. I can see you are only able to look at this issue from your own point of view.

Its not the ganking that bothers me its the fact that it can be done so cheap as well as with minimal effort.

gankers argue that ganking is pvp, then how come ganking should be profitable when pvp isnt? yes, theres an incentive in the form of bounties and insurance payouts, but you are not supposed to break even, ever. every year or so you will find that holy grail of stupidity flying in low with a mission boat, but thats not the norm.

ganking should not be profitable, in an average way, period. if you want to make a profit, then sit in a belt scanning to find a barge that fits a faction tank or a mission runner with officer fittings near a gate. but randomly shooting at a barge with 3 t1 catalysts and making a profit, all the while avoiding -10 gameplay because your catalyst pilot is a 2m sp highsec superhero is a no. definite no.

Make ganking profitable - everyone now go ganking, oh wait, we will be ganking gankers that are ganking another gankers. What a fun.

An interesting question. It is probably hurting everything else.

These gankers could be doing something else, which could be anything and as such would contribute to all other areas of the game. They could populate low-sec, help grind sov. in 0.0, join the militias or just RvB to support their activities.

Again im sure in your mind because you say it then it has to be. Sorry thats just not the case. I never mentioned the amount of guys just the amount of isk and reward vs isk and profit and effort.

I dont care how many it takes to gank someone it should not yield a profit in hi-sec. In certain cases it may only take one person to break the tank during a mission. The variables are endless.

I just asked peoples opinion on the matter. There are plenty of options avail to CCP to correct the problem without creating unbalance.

The unbalance is you can loose a high value mission specific pvp/pve ship to low value high dps ships from alt accounts.

You still do. I do not. I ask and still have not seen an argument as solid as any of the miners. So I keep asking. You keep overestimating.

I think that ganking should only be profitable when the correct target is found. Such as someone who is carrying a massive amount of isk in goods or mods, silly enough to be flying around advertising themselves. General ganking of any-old person should not be profitable. If it were, they'd be even more people claiming to be elite "PvPers" in highsec than there already are. True PvP should be found in low and nullsec space, where is suppose to be going down. But the highsec ganker crowd have found their easy-mode, with their risk-free completely one-sided carebear targets. Why risk an actual PvP battle when they can get their kills and loot so easily from targets that don't shoot back?

Most of them wouldn't know PvP if it came up and slapped them in the face!

I'd argue that pirates are a victim of their own success. They've taught highsec players over and over, the hard way, that coming to lowsec often results in a quick death, often in the jaws of a waiting gatecamp. Now they've succeeded in turning lowsec into a wasteland, seems only logicial they'd move to highsec to continue the slaughter. Who cares that it harms the game as a whole, and prevents newer players from making the natural progression to low and nullsec space? As long as they're getting their easymode, the gankers will continue to defend their niche, and continue to yammer their highsec-hating rhetoric to justify their position.

TBH I'd love to see actual boarding of the ships and then taking them away, no destruction needed for a pirate who wants to profit off his victims. That's piracy!

That doesn't make his point any less valid.

So using your words "maybe you don't understand what "losing a ship" entails

hint, it entails losing the ship and everything in it". Then no one should get any salvage. Great idea Goon

It seemed the DEV's felt it was needed.

Bottom line here is DEV Soundwave said he felt ganking should be possible but not profitable I agreee with him. Argue with him about.

Not me, the Goon did. They made ganking retrievers not profitable I am sure they could find a way to do it for other high value ships in hi-sec.

You guys keep trying to find micro fault with every little comment becuase you are afaraid you may loose something. I didnt say it should be done for the whole game. Obviously if you make the effort and kill somone in low/null then you earned your reward.

The problem most of you have with it is you think it takes away your easy mode pvp. You could still gank just like you can a retriever just wouldnt make a profit. I understand you dont want to go to null/low where the playing field might be more level and where people are more prepared for pvp.

Only thing I would like to see is the proifit removed just as DEV Soundwave suggested.

I know that stuff, I still find it insane that somebody would buy a below twice as effective mod costing 1000 times more than another.

I mean, there's plenty of rare yet cheap stuff nobody bothers to get because rarity does not imply being a worthy alternative.

So is it that EvE players are "special"? Or ISK comes to easy these days?

No this point has been stated and is common knowledge that if you engage in hi-sec Concord comes and destroys the low cost minimal effort high dps ships used to kill the high value mission fit billion isk ship.

Yes ships should be able to be ganked but they should not yield a profit. The cost should be greater for the ganker as it would still allow to gank for revenge or spite just not profit. Just as it is now with the retriever.

All right, all right.

No lie. Goons blow up a lot of freighters. Are they rich because of that. Yes. But like all things, if it gets out of control CCP will nerf it. Right now its not out of control. There are also limits to what CCP can do without breaking the game. In the grand scheme of things, billions taken out of an economy worth trillions won't break things. They aren't making isk like they did with the totally broken factional warfare. That was obscene.

As for mission ships. Go look over Eve-kill and see for yourself. Mission ships aren't being suicide ganked all that much.

There are problems on the horizon though. My worry is that people will find a way to automate suicide ganking, then you really have a big problem. I don't know what CCP would try to do about something like that. But stuff like that is in the future. Right now its not a crisis.

If you hate Goons so much my advice is to improve your propaganda. The stuff you are churning out right now is pretty weak. Hire someone to make a funny video that mocks Goons. People would eat that stuff up. Here is an oldie but a goodie. A lot of people used to see Goons that way. Too bad they have been able to shake some of that off. The serious Goons have taken over.

People gank mission runners all the time and gank their mission fit ships all the time so yes they can be taken away.

The philosophical difference between me and yourself and people like you is I play in low/null/hi-sec. I feel because this is a MMORPG with PVE and PVP elements that there should be a division between the two that should allow game play for those that donGÇÖt want to have school yard bully tactics and broken game mechanic forced upon them.

Should this happen the person who is attacking the hi-sec person shouldnGÇÖt profit from it. The ganker is using hi-sec mechanics as a safety net to decide when they want to initiate combat on a target that is neither set up fit or prepared for PVP. You want to grief someone just because you can and you have the advantage all from the safety of the rules of hi-sec.

There are two other system null/low that are open pvp where people are fit ready and willing to fight. These people would not provide you the same sense school yard fulfillment because you might lose or look stupid.

If hi-sec is where you need to get your sense of nerd rage school yard bully fulfillment then you should not profit from it.

ThatGÇÖs the difference. I donGÇÖt feel these people are here to fill the void for something I may be missing but they are here in hi-sec for themselves and their own needs not yours.

No I think I am seeing correct.

See thats were you are wrong. The changes brought about for the barges prove this. As well as Dev Soundwaves quote refference to those changes.

Didnt take any thing out of context... He refered to barges just as i have he said ganking those shouldnot be profit. Changes were made I agree with those changes. Then I asked if ganking should yield a profit and you girls have had your panties in a bind ever since.

Dont like the barge changes to bad tell it to CCP. Sounwaves quote was very specific. Changes were made a I see more coming.

Riiiiiight if you say so. You guys crack me up

So let us change it, and if they players do not change then change the game.

....because every ganked mining barge has had faction, deadspace and officer modules

why should you?

Correct, but as much as you say CCP holds all rights, they too are subject to governmental rules. If Iceland would decide to implement new propery laws concerning in-game currencies, then CCP either has to abide by it, or they simply move out and settle elsewhere.




Mmm, any country has a constitution, not just the US. Correct, the US constitution doesn't apply here. But guess what.. You (wherever you come from, I'm sure it's a great country) have your own consitution. And when your government decides that you should be protected from this game, you can no longer play it. That's one of the reason why setting up an MMO is somewhat challenging in say.. China. It's not so much about the availability. It's more that the Chinese government needs to approve it.

Others have played as carebares even longer. No where does is say pirating has to yield a profit. Pirates should be able to pirate in hi-sec if they choose just not profit from it.

Tippia, I hope its more of a unwillingness or a refusal to accept someone else valid points of views more then a reading comprehension issue.

I have sated my opinion and point of view clearly and stated reason's for those. Should you have any further questions please take the time and perhaps read them again.

Hope this helps you.

Have a nice day.

No what I want is balance.

Sorry not even close.

Not asking to remove game play.

Some one brought up the pirates of old. Were they allowed to sail around the seas unmolested? No they were hunted down and hung.

Was this before or after being kicked from the country?

Why should you?

Dammit, we never even touched on the bounty aspect of putting bounties on miners and ganking them.


That's another source of "for profit".

Read. The question has been answered over and over.

Yes...yes people have.