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A way to stop macro miners?

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Tar om	Posted - 2005.08.25 16:29:00 - [1] Since all macro miners are in NPC corps to prevent war declarations... How about making it impossible for NPC corpmembers to scoop ore in belts? This would prevent (or at least vastly reduce the efficiency of) macro mining ops from working because players would be able to wardec their haulers without preventing true noobs from mining in their probes at the start of the game. If the macro miners start just warping to and from station, it should make them far more obvious to GMs. Afterall - who warps a fleet back and forward instead of using a hauler? Even if macro miners split up their operations to one per system it will be pretty obvious if cruisers keep warping back and foward instead of using secure cans and a hauler. Oh, and it would also apply to ore thieves :) They'd be able to steal but they'd no longer be able to hide in NPC corps. There must be some holes in this plan.... gwan, I can take it. Tar om -- We are the Octavian Vanguard www.octavianvanguard.net http://www.serenitymovie.com
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2005.08.25 16:38:00 - [2] While I personally like the idea, ther are two things that make it hard to accept. First, there's the fact that lots of players choose to sit in NPC corps and operate from them. Making it impossible for them to operate as haulers in belts is kind of weird. One would say you either change npc corps as a whole to fit a wholly different role (which no longer allows players to use them as hiding places or player corp substitutes), or you do nothing at all. Personally, I don't like how npc corps offer the ability to operate outside of the eve world where actions have consequences. However, that world is not perfect, and to at this time remove the ability to hide at expense of the ability to play a serious role in the greater universe is a difficult point. Secondly, there is the fact that alot of macrominers already resort to having their ship move back and forth from stations. they typically do this once their op has been found by ore thieves and is regularly plundered. Sure, ti reduces their effectiveness and increases the visibility, but all it takes to get away with farming for reselling is one person to watch the accounts. _______________________________________________ Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues.
Skogen Gump	Posted - 2005.08.25 16:50:00 - [3] Gee, if you put it like that: Since all crimes are commited by Players, why not simply ban players from playing ? Firstly, it's not fair to tarnish all npc corp players because of the actions of a few, and secondly the coding and testing required to implement this crazy idea would be beyond the benefit it would actually give the game! EVE is like a box of chocolates
Vitai	Posted - 2005.08.25 16:56:00 - [4] There is no need to think about more restrictions in the game when it is a rather simple task to spot macro miners on the client side with a little bit of programming. No human player is as repetitive down to a millisecond as a script.
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2005.08.25 16:59:00 - [5] Originally by: Vitai There is no need to think about more restrictions in the game when it is a rather simple task to spot macro miners on the client side with a little bit of programming. No human player is as repetitive down to a millisecond as a script. Scripts need not be repetitive. It all a matter of how detailed your coding is. _______________________________________________ Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues.
Vishnej	Posted - 2005.08.25 17:18:00 - [6] Incredibly dumb idea, the noob corp is there for a reason - new players and people who don't want to be part of a team at the moment. Being in one should not cripple you in any way, shape, or form. If someone is macro mining, haul their ore and pop their cans, after you report them to a GM.
Winterblink	Posted - 2005.08.25 17:29:00 - [7] Personally, I thought the bumpageddon idea was a riot. winterblink warp drive active.http://winterblink.com/wda nature vraie.http://winterblink.com/env
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.08.25 17:51:00 - [8] I think after about 1-2 months all people should be kicked out of noob corps. It would solve so many problems. For ease of administration they could go to a corp called "Caldari / Gallente etc misfits club". This would be a kind of overflow corp where the players could be wardec'd. I think to ensure balance a wardec on this corp should cost more. Perhaps 2.1 mill ISK instead of the normal 2 mill?
Sumica	Posted - 2005.08.25 18:12:00 - [9] like adding 100k to the cost of a war is realy going to make any one think twice abought declearing a war what is that like 1 or 2 min of work for most players. As it stands there are plenty of ways to deal with macro miners. Just pick one and work with it. Your not stupid just misinformed Ö
John Smallberries	Posted - 2005.08.25 20:12:00 - [10] Hiding in n00b corps to escape game mechanics is lame. Minimizine time spent in NPC corps would be a good thing. Let us war dec teh NPC corps! Death the Macro Miners! Mob Justice 4tw!!!
SengH	Posted - 2005.08.25 20:15:00 - [11] if players are older than 1-2 months and in the noob corp. Allow individual person wardecs on these characters. Problem solved.
John Smallberries	Posted - 2005.08.25 20:20:00 - [12] Quote: if players are older than 1-2 months and in the noob corp. Allow individual person wardecs on these characters. Problem solved. \o/ me does the happy dance \o/
Chief Wompum	Posted - 2005.08.25 21:17:00 - [13] Edited by: Chief Wompum on 25/08/2005 21:18:48 null Originally by: Vishnej Incredibly dumb idea, the noob corp is there for a reason - new players and people who don't want to be part of a team at the moment. Being in one should not cripple you in any way, shape, or form. This is EVE. It IS a MMORPG. If you want to play alone, go play something else, OR you can make YOUR very own single person corp. The only way i can see to have macros minimized is real simple and said before. Everyone after 2 months should NOT be in a n00b corp. There just isnt any good reason to be in one forever. Need advice? go to help channel. Afraid of a War dec in empire? Then dont pss anyone off. The diehard EVE players REALLY need a way to teach the marco mine farms what EVE is all about. Players that dont want our game ruined by ebaying fectards. CCP give the players the tools, and we will take care of it! Yall can stay at the bar longer then... "I make white women cry" Chief Wompum, collecting scalps since 1810..
Joshua Foiritain	Posted - 2005.08.25 21:21:00 - [14] 1 player corps are open to wardecs, some people simply dont that. Plus people who think theres no teamwork in n00b corps are idiots ------------------ [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Luigi Thirty	Posted - 2005.08.25 21:21:00 - [15] So then everyone in the noob corp would be a noob with nobody to help them?
Chief Wompum	Posted - 2005.08.25 21:29:00 - [16] Originally by: Luigi Thirty So then everyone in the noob corp would be a noob with nobody to help them? Try reading it again. We have a help channel and rookie channels for a reason. We also have forums here too n00bs can find help at. DOH If someone wants to solo, more power to them. But they can easily solo in thier own corp. Solo wont get you far in EVE. You need Teamwork comrade.... "I make white women cry" Chief Wompum, collecting scalps since 1810..
Talthrus	Posted - 2005.08.25 22:23:00 - [17] Originally by: Vitai There is no need to think about more restrictions in the game when it is a rather simple task to spot macro miners on the client side with a little bit of programming. No human player is as repetitive down to a millisecond as a script. Unfortunately, the hours of coding CCP would be required to do in order to catch a very small percentage of the macroing would be countered in minutes by a few changes in the macro coding. Additionally, most marcos today aren't as repetitive as you may think. I think a large majority of the macro miners are being caught in EVE, which is definitely a good thing. Drastic systems are only needed if the problem gets way out of hand. ----------------------
Galk	Posted - 2005.08.25 22:57:00 - [18] Originally by: Rod Blaine One would say you either change npc corps as a whole to fit a wholly different role (which no longer allows players to use them as hiding places or player corp substitutes), or you do nothing at all. Personally, I don't like how npc corps offer the ability to operate outside of the eve world where actions have consequences. That option is there for a reason. Sadly there are many that just chose to random war dec people... naff all to do with reason or consequence.. or roleplay. The npc corps are a safety net... and i know i did and many others.. i enjoyed my time in the starter corp learning the game at my own leisure, and those that wish to play no part of player politics ever.... End of the day, they like to play a game, im sure there's plenty more out there that play the player v's game.. without the need to call for abolition of npc corps thus forcing everybody not willing to join into the game you belive they should be playing. Stupid idea with the haulers and non cans realy.... i made many friends from multiplayer mining ops during my first months in the game. Do away with that also, even less of a multiplayer experience looms:/ -------- 23 Arguing that namechanging would promote griefing is somewhat moot given the current FFA on that front. 'Danton Marcellus'
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.08.25 23:10:00 - [19] Originally by: Sumica like adding 100k to the cost of a war is realy going to make any one think twice abought declearing a war what is that like 1 or 2 min of work for most players. As it stands there are plenty of ways to deal with macro miners. Just pick one and work with it. No **** sherlock, it was tongue in cheek - next time I'll post a disclaimer in case you miss it.
without	Posted - 2005.08.26 01:00:00 - [20] why do u want to stop the macro miners? how do they hurt you dont give me that **** about mineral prices. they just bring in more minerals to the game = more ships = good BTW i dont mine at all so im not defending myself. but i say that eve should have a built in macro from ship cargo to jet can the argument is that macro is an unfair advantage. well let everyone have it inbuilt then its not a advantage
Hzar Grako	Posted - 2005.08.26 01:14:00 - [21] I've played this game for over two years. I have never belong to another players corporation. I play solo most of the time. I do gang upon occation. I am not hiding in an NPC corp. I have RL commitments, a 1 and 2 year old, that make it very difficult to commit to game play at any certain time. I can see it now, middle of a fleet battle: "I've got to go one of the boys is crying". About the third or fourth time, I think my corp mates might get a bit upset.
Chief Wompum	Posted - 2005.08.26 02:00:00 - [22] Originally by: without why do u want to stop the macro miners? how do they hurt you dont give me that **** about mineral prices. they just bring in more minerals to the game = more ships = good BTW i dont mine at all so im not defending myself. but i say that eve should have a built in macro from ship cargo to jet can the argument is that macro is an unfair advantage. well let everyone have it inbuilt then its not a advantage You Sir, are a moron. Macro miners do affect prices. They are not just being used to move ore to a can. They Strip mine entire systems with NO effort. They also have this little nasty thing of EBAYING thier ingame cash for RL money. WOOT now we have a one day old spoiled rich kid with 2 billion! WTF is that? Is this how you play games? Cheating? And so since im not rich in RL, I cant be rich in a game? Personally, I cant see how anyone could be a big enough idiot to buy ANY game items for RL cash. Big F&*(@#$ Losers. The ONLY people to make RL cash from a game is the game company that made it. Maybe i should come to your company, automate the entire place, be a direct result of 95% of your workforce going to unemployment line. And stand back and watch all of those lose alot more than a virtual ship. Would you cry foul then? Im sure you wouldnt if your were the cause. This is a GAME. Its meant to played for FUN not rl profit. "I make white women cry" Chief Wompum, collecting scalps since 1810..
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.08.26 02:08:00 - [23] Originally by: Chief Wompum Originally by: without why do u want to stop the macro miners? how do they hurt you dont give me that **** about mineral prices. they just bring in more minerals to the game = more ships = good BTW i dont mine at all so im not defending myself. but i say that eve should have a built in macro from ship cargo to jet can the argument is that macro is an unfair advantage. well let everyone have it inbuilt then its not a advantage You Sir, are a moron. Macro miners do affect prices. They are not just being used to move ore to a can. They Strip mine entire systems with NO effort. They also have this little nasty thing of EBAYING thier ingame cash for RL money. WOOT now we have a one day old spoiled rich kid with 2 billion! WTF is that? Is this how you play games? Cheating? And so since im not rich in RL, I cant be rich in a game? Personally, I cant see how anyone could be a big enough idiot to buy ANY game items for RL cash. Big F&*(@#$ Losers. The ONLY people to make RL cash from a game is the game company that made it. Maybe i should come to your company, automate the entire place, be a direct result of 95% of your workforce going to unemployment line. And stand back and watch all of those lose alot more than a virtual ship. Would you cry foul then? Im sure you wouldnt if your were the cause. This is a GAME. Its meant to played for FUN not rl profit. Quoted for Truth, except for the fact that you said "You Sir are a Moron". I've said that before, and it got me a forum ban . Suggest you edit it. -- Proud member of the [23]. Selling Capital Cargo Bays and Kernite Mining Crystal IIs, cheaper than anyone else.
Driven	Posted - 2005.08.26 14:11:00 - [24] Originally by: Rod Blaine Personally, I don't like how npc corps offer the ability to operate outside of the eve world where actions have consequences. This is the crux of the matter at hand. It is well stated. It isn't only this issue either, but others in the game that, if addressed, would go a long ways towards creatiing huge barriers to the cheaters of the world who would love to exploit EVE, the way other online games have and are being exploited now. NPC corps allow a player to engage in low-risk, high-reward activities. If CCP eliminates the no-cost risk abatement, that is the NPC corp, for any player older than 60 days, presto - now players themselves can address the issue through war decs. After all, who hates macro-miners more than honest players? Further, put rats in all high-sec belts - and if you aren't around to actually play the game, your ship/drones/equipment is at risk - the way it ought to be. This situation is exactly like professional athletes using steroids - if you know the player next to you is using, and you don't, you are at a disadvantage. Either make macros legal and we can all go on vacation while our barges macro-mine, or put in some real counter-measures. This kind of thing needs to be stamped out - harshly.
Ryy Kishin	Posted - 2005.08.26 14:15:00 - [25] Originally by: Winterblink Personally, I thought the bumpageddon idea was a riot. It actually works very well in a Tempy too Live Hard Die Young Leave A Good Looking Corpse There are no bugs in Eve only features.
Vee Bot	Posted - 2005.08.26 14:24:00 - [26] Originally by: Ryy Kishin Originally by: Winterblink Personally, I thought the bumpageddon idea was a riot. It actually works very well in a Tempy too Surely a BumpaFoon would be the obvious choice! ------------------ Remember that your Unique, like everyone else.
without	Posted - 2005.08.26 14:24:00 - [27] Originally by: Chief Wompum Edited by: Chief Wompum on 26/08/2005 02:22:21 You Sir, are a <edit> heh . Macro miners do affect prices. They are not just being used to move ore to a can. They Strip mine entire systems with NO effort. They also have this little nasty thing of EBAYING thier ingame cash for RL money. WOOT now we have a one day old spoiled rich kid with 2 billion! WTF is that? Is this how you play games? Cheating? And so since im not rich in RL, I cant be rich in a game? Personally, I cant see how anyone could be a big enough idiot to buy ANY game items for RL cash. Big F&(@#$ Losers. The ONLY people to make RL cash from a game is the game company that made it. Maybe i should come to your company, automate the entire place, be a direct result of 95% of your workforce going to unemployment line. And stand back and watch all of those lose alot more than a virtual ship. Would you cry foul then? Im sure you wouldnt if your were the cause. This is a GAME. Its meant to played for FUN not rl profit. Maybe i should come to your company, automate the entire place, be a direct result of 95% of your workforce going to unemployment line. And stand back and watch all of those lose alot more than a virtual ship. Would you cry foul then? Im sure you wouldnt if your were the cause. man that is so stupid. i dont know what cvountry ur in but it happens all the time and its called development. old days ppl **ed when the coal miners lost their jobs becuase machines where made to take their jobs. the miners adapted and found new jobs and now electricity and coal is cheaper = the whole economy is better lots of examples like that. say the industrial revolution. ppl lost millions of jobs to the machines. but we adapt and move on and progress as a race everything that can be automated should be. y wast human life and time on ** that can be done by machines. i agree isk selling = cheating but i dont see why macro mining should be a prob. it brings minerals into the game which is good. means isk is worth more if they macro miners keep trit at 2isk that means everything in game gets cheaper. and there is a limited amount of ISK in game so the isk is worth more. thus we all benifit you should all think before u cry these ppl are doing you a service
Matthew	Posted - 2005.08.26 14:35:00 - [28] Originally by: Chief Wompum There just isnt any good reason to be in one forever. How about because they want to? Because they like not being tied down and the ever-changing group of friends? Originally by: Chief Wompum Afraid of a War dec in empire? Then dont pss anyone off. Not annoying anyone is no guarantee that you won't be wardec'ed. There are those that will wardec you simply for being the first player with a ship worth shooting that they meet after their last war expires. While people are able to declare empire wars for no better reason that they want something to shoot and you were the first ones they spotted, there needs to be a way to avoid such people. Originally by: Chief Wompum The diehard EVE players REALLY need a way to teach the marco mine farms what EVE is all about. This sort of player vigilante "justice" is a very dangerous road to go down. Sure, if it's within the game mechanics, then go for it. But deliberately changing the game mechanics for the sole reason of facilitating it is a dangerous precedent to set. Especially considering that players do not have the tools to 100% identify a macro-miner. The resulting witch-hunt could easily hit dedicated player miners, who are assumed to be macroers just because "I only ever see them in a belt mining for hours on end". The GMs are the ones with the tools to truly judge each case, and they are the ones with the tools to implement the ultimate remedy. One that is far more effective than petty player attacks. Originally by: Chief Wompum Players that dont want our game ruined by ebaying fectards. There are also a lot of players who don't want to see the game ruined by ill-thought-out responses to the macroers. Beware those beyond here, for they cannot see evil.
Sharaka	Posted - 2005.08.26 15:31:00 - [29] I'm a new player in an NPC corps but I'm an MMORPG player of several years. I do hate macroers and currency farmers with a vengeance but I don't think that changing the NPC corps in the way suggested is a valid solution. Time is not a proper measure of whether someone should stop "hiding" (if that is what it is considered) in an NPC corps. Some people play more than others. One person may have learned much from playing 5 hours a day 7 days a week in 2 months while another only gets to play a few hours at weekends and is still a relative newbie in the same timespan. Perhaps SP could be a better measure to separate the skilled from the casual so you have to leave after a certain number. Or maybe not even "have to", just make clones over a certain SP number unavailable to people in newbie corps. That way you save creating new NPC corps for the throw-outs and just make it more and more adviseable to move on as you skill up. The wisdom of it does worry me however. I'm a PvE player and always have been. This probably puts me at odds with most of EVE. But being put into a situation where I was forced to PvP would probably make me wonder about staying. And from the attitudes I hear those who made 1 person corps would get hammered by the people for whom their own excitement is the only consideration. If anyone wonders why I'm not just rushing to join a corps, I've been through too many guild dramas in other games to be particularly keen on joining up for another one. If the limit to NPC corps numbers were ever adopted then there would be no worries about there "only being newbs in them", as someone said, because they are full of alts. I'm quite happy (most of the time) taking advice from a "less than a day" player when they obviously know what they are on about. Although sometimes the difference between BS and BS can be minimal.
Galk	Posted - 2005.08.26 16:06:00 - [30] Many people drop from corps when they get a war dec. Those people continue to play eve. Without the npc corp backup, those people will simpley stop playing eve. Is that what you realy want.. people leaving the game. -------- 23 Arguing that namechanging would promote griefing is somewhat moot given the current FFA on that front. 'Danton Marcellus'

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